"We're launching with a monumental campaign"

[Skunk]

I think honestly, Axl isn't talking because he doesn't want his album overshadowed by a million what happened to the old band/reunion questions he will be bombarded with once he does give interviews.

May well be true... But better to face shit with no regrets than to let the album be overshadowed by an absent singer and a soda law suit IMO.

Axl's silence and the Dr Pepper lawsuit is NOT overshadowing Chinese Democracy. For a look at the attention it's getting, go check out the Chinese Democracy review thread.

CNN front-page gets more hits than any of the places those reviews are. My local news site has had four GnR stories I've seen...

1) The album is coming.
2) Review on release (positive).

Then nothing.

Then...

3) Axl's nowhere to be seen.
4) Dr Pepper.

In other words, since the day of release, those two things are the only mentions they've had other than the weekly chart results.

Do you think it would have made your local news site if Axl was around giving interviews or if nothing was said about Dr Pepper? How many bands are frequently in your local news?
What i'm saying is 4 mentions is 4 mentions. The album hasn't been overshadowed by those other things, if anything it stayed connected to the news more than it otherwise should have.

[demo23nz]

I think honestly, Axl isn't talking because he doesn't want his album overshadowed by a million what happened to the old band/reunion questions he will be bombarded with once he does give interviews.

May well be true... But better to face shit with no regrets than to let the album be overshadowed by an absent singer and a soda law suit IMO.

Axl's silence and the Dr Pepper lawsuit is NOT overshadowing Chinese Democracy. For a look at the attention it's getting, go check out the Chinese Democracy review thread.

CNN front-page gets more hits than any of the places those reviews are. My local news site has had four GnR stories I've seen...

1) The album is coming.
2) Review on release (positive).

Then nothing.

Then...

3) Axl's nowhere to be seen.
4) Dr Pepper.

In other words, since the day of release, those two things are the only mentions they've had other than the weekly chart results.

Do you think it would have made your local news site if Axl was around giving interviews or if nothing was said about Dr Pepper? How many bands are frequently in your local news?

Plenty. They have an entertainment section.

And not all publicity is good publicity.

[xxrosesxx]

The band has no identity besides Axl.

BEST POINT ive read for a long time now. NO IDENTITY. NO visual communication (no band photos, no videos, no solid lineup). Fans cant identify with the members, they actually dont have the time to. My opinion as a designer is that the greatest mistake on chid dem is that there have been no new band photography, no effort to present this band as "A band".

[Skunk]

I think honestly, Axl isn't talking because he doesn't want his album overshadowed by a million what happened to the old band/reunion questions he will be bombarded with once he does give interviews.

May well be true... But better to face shit with no regrets than to let the album be overshadowed by an absent singer and a soda law suit IMO.

Axl's silence and the Dr Pepper lawsuit is NOT overshadowing Chinese Democracy. For a look at the attention it's getting, go check out the Chinese Democracy review thread.

CNN front-page gets more hits than any of the places those reviews are. My local news site has had four GnR stories I've seen...

1) The album is coming.
2) Review on release (positive).

Then nothing.

Then...

3) Axl's nowhere to be seen.
4) Dr Pepper.

In other words, since the day of release, those two things are the only mentions they've had other than the weekly chart results.

Do you think it would have made your local news site if Axl was around giving interviews or if nothing was said about Dr Pepper? How many bands are frequently in your local news?

Plenty. They have an entertainment section.

And not all publicity is good publicity.

I'm confused, i thought the point was that "CNN front-page gets more hits than any of the places those reviews are," but now it's that not all publicity is good publicity? Should Axl be out with Britney and Paris getting his photo in the tabloids? Is there some way to get on CNN without it being a negative story? Is a positive review in Rolling Stone worth more or less than the stories about Dr Pepper, or even about the album being banned in China?

I mean i get your point about thinking Axl should get out there, but i just think we're silly to act like we think there's a better way when really we just want to hear more from Axl because we're fans. I think GNR still gets way more attention than 90% of the other groups and performers out there, and it's been cool to see.

[Gunzen]

problem is that Axl is an enigma, and he is just not gonna tow the company line.  I have long accepted and embraced that Axl is not on VH1 or making rockumentary's and appearing on Ellen.

Fucker makes great music, not as often or as conventional as others.  And that is fine by me, cause I hae no choice.  If he tours I am there. 

[bodine]

I think honestly, Axl isn't talking because he doesn't want his album overshadowed by a million what happened to the old band/reunion questions he will be bombarded with once he does give interviews.

I could understand that but the whole "R" word thing is floating around out there now overshadowing the release of this album, and that could be put to rest by doing some interviews.  It's really unfortunate, because there's some brilliant stuff on this album, I think, and it's not getting what it deserves.  I'll always be able to just enjoy the music for myself, but I think Axl wanted to be on top of the world, and he could have had a decent shot at it had things been done right.

[Regibold]

People are saying no promotion...on the contrary, WE ARE THE PROMOTION  !! It's been a word of mouth thing since the album was conceived more than a decade ago. Forums like HTGTH are what's kept this myth that's become a reality alive. This forum along with others out there I feel are largely responsible for getting the album the sales and promotion it's gotten so far.

[Gunzen]

I think honestly, Axl isn't talking because he doesn't want his album overshadowed by a million what happened to the old band/reunion questions he will be bombarded with once he does give interviews.

I could understand that but the whole "R" word thing is floating around out there now overshadowing the release of this album, and that could be put to rest by doing some interviews.  It's really unfortunate, because there's some brilliant stuff on this album, I think, and it's not getting what it deserves.  I'll always be able to just enjoy the music for myself, but I think Axl wanted to be on top of the world, and he could have had a decent shot at it had things been done right.

I could understand that but the whole "R" word thing is floating around out there now overshadowing the release of this album

yeah, that is a harsh thing.  I mean, these forums are littered with supposed "fans" of the band, and people who criticize them for not releasing music in a timely manner.  Then they release what is for all intensive purposes a great CD with good reviews, and as soon as the ship doesnt go the fans way, everyone jumps off and screams REUNION.

If I was a member of this band, i.e. Fortus or Bumble, I am sure i wouldnt give a shit about a few fucktards on a negative forum, but I sure as hell would not go outta my way to appease them either.

"You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"  And the GNR fans on some forums  are some sour motherfuckers these days.  Not all, but you know the ones I mean.

[IKnowWhereIAM]

Who is it that said "any publicity is good publicity" or something like that...at least the "R" rumors have people talking about Guns N' Roses.  I think the worst thing this album has going for it is the Best Buy exclusive...I was in Wal-mart today, and man is it wierd to see 'top albums' with ChiDem not on the rack...if someone has run under the radar (missing the commercials, etc), they would actually have to be in Best Buy to 'happen upon' the album.   There are only so many Best-Buys... 

I am sure given time, this album will sell HUGE, but it will require word of mouth, and more staying in the press/media.

[killingvector]

probably best for this thread...

Its all about promotion.

Best Buy probably mailed it in after they found out Axl wouldnt help them. Cant blame them from that stand point.

WalMart shoved ACDC down everyones throat. And its still paying off. I hear that dumb song 1000x a day.

If Axl didnt care about sales then we shouldnt either. Just enjoy the album. Its sad that it has all turned out like this but there is nothing we can do. We did everything we could all of these years.

The album isnt flopping in the US because of the quality of music. Its flopping because GNR have not given the avg fan or skeptical fan a reason to go out and buy the album. Great music is only half the battle these days. The other half has to do with promotion and being force fed the music. We live in an age where great music isnt enough. The band has no identity besides Axl. And the problem with that is Axl is on 50/50 terms with the avg rock fan. He was like that even when it was old GNR. Now he is viewed as the person who broke that band up(even though its not tru). He knew going in that he had to rebuild gnr with a quality BAND. And to his credit he did that. But the problem is the year on our calendar doesnt range from 2000-2006. That BAND, the band in which he could have marketed Bucket and or Robin around, aside from himself, is GONE.

That is something that many of you miscalculated throughout the years. The whole get on board or fuk off, gnr will roll on as long as they have axl, etc only holds true in the small gnr community. I was always amazed by that attitude because I dont even think Axl thinks like that. His actions over the past few months confirm what I always thought.
 When Axl finally said it was time to release it and jump into the deep end, that philosophy and mentality, (while might be true) doesnt work in the real world when half or even more of your potential customers already hate you or have a problem with you.

The thing I find most disappointing with all of this as the writing takes shape up on the wall is that Axl was well on his way to making this a true comeback story. The album is AMAZING. But more importantly, he rebuilt GNR with a BAND. He had it. We saw it. He had a guy in Bucket and Robin who people can talk about. They are lightning rod guitarists that can draw attention to this band.
 Americans only care about frontmen and lead guitarists. Not bassists and a keyboard player. No matter how talented. That is how American rnr works.  He had that and it just pisses me off because they could have pulled this off.

Luckily for us, the die hard, we know he had that and accomplished that. We saw it from 2000-2006ish.  Luckily for us we will always have an official album that will remind us of what Axl truly accomplished during those silent years. We all want Axl and this band to prove the critics wrong. It just sux it is turning out the way it is. Maybe because we know GNR have a huge fight in them but for some reason we just arent seeing it.

It could be many things: Axl could have been unhappy with the promotion deal/release or maybe he felt that the album's first week would be so huge he didn't need to say anything. Either way, there was a colossal error in judgment made at the top and it has absolutely murdered this record in the US market.

Ironically, the marketing of Chinese Democracy the album may have been more about paying off debt (ironic since the US owes so much to the Chinese) than actual capitalism. In the case of GnR, it was Axl's debt to the label which was retired with this release. But perception is reality in the US market; what viability does the new band have now that platinum in the domestic market seems difficult to reach as CD will be out of the top 10 by week 2.

[jarmo]

Americans only care about frontmen and lead guitarists. Not bassists and a keyboard player. No matter how talented. That is how American rnr works. 

So that's why NIN are touring? Because people go see Robin play guitar?


Why doesn't the Americans care about Ron? Is it because he lives in Jersey? 

How about Richard? Poor guy, apparently America ignores him too....


Oh wait, maybe you just like to focus on people who are currently doing other stuff.... The old "things used to be better" cliche...

We did everything we could all of these years.

Who's "we"?

Does it include all those "fans" who talked shit about the band for years and years? Who were putting the band down instead of supporting them...

The same ones who suddenly turned around and are now basically saying "we knew this day would come!!!!!"?





/jarmo

[Gunzen]

Americans only care about frontmen and lead guitarists. Not bassists and a keyboard player. No matter how talented. That is how American rnr works. 

So that's why NIN are touring? Because people go see Robin play guitar?


Why doesn't the Americans care about Ron? Is it because he lives in Jersey? 

How about Richard? Poor guy, apparently America ignores him too....


Oh wait, maybe you just like to focus on people who are currently doing other stuff.... The old "things used to be better" cliche...

We did everything we could all of these years.

Who's "we"?

Does it include all those "fans" who talked shit about the band for years and years? Who were putting the band down instead of supporting them...

The same ones who suddenly turned around and are now basically saying "we knew this day would come!!!!!"?





/jarmo

well, people are just gonna keep fanning the fire till someone in the know says "there is no truth to the reunion rumors"

[RancidPunx]

Gunzen your post will be deleted in 3,21.. for the R word.


On topic this is far from a monumental campaign as you can get. In my Best Buy the GNR display was already taken down after just one week. At least when it was up it was viewable to anyone in either the music of dvd section.

[jarmo]

well, people are just gonna keep fanning the fire till someone in the know says "there is no truth to the reunion rumors"

Oh yeah, "the signs" are truly there.

They just released the album of the year. Something these same people said/hoped would never happen.




/jarmo

[younggunner]

So that's why NIN are touring? Because people go see Robin play guitar?


Why doesn't the Americans care about Ron? Is it because he lives in Jersey?  

How about Richard? Poor guy, apparently America ignores him too....


Oh wait, maybe you just like to focus on people who are currently doing other stuff.... The old "things used to be better" cliche...

NIN is not really considered a rock band. They were never known as a singer/guitarist type deal.

I personally dont think ROn has that rock star vibe that Robin and Bucket could bring to the table.

Richard maybe. But dont see it.
Jarmo, you clearly dont get it. Im not blaming Axl for people leaving the band. Its Robin and Buckets choice for leaving. We have been discussiong all week about the promotion and sluggish US sales. I firmly believe  that some of that has to do with the fact that GNR do not have a guitarist to market the band with. There is no identity with this band other than Axl.
 And that is an uphill battle in itself because the avg rock fan dislikes Axl because they think he broke up the old band. Axl had haters even when he was on top of the world. Now throw in the current dynamics of the gnr situation.

Who's "we"?

Does it include all those "fans" who talked shit about the band for years and years? Who were putting the band down instead of supporting them...

The same ones who suddenly turned around and are now basically saying "we knew this day would come!!!!!"?

The "We" are the fans who supported Axl and the new band over the years through the ups and downs. The people who accepted Axls vision and new band. The people who went a show or multiple shows. The people who became passionate fans about that very band and vision. The people who would keep the gnr name out there by constantly nagging their family and friends about GNR and how Axl will one day return. etc etc

And most importantly, the "we" are the people who have come to the boards over the years and talked gnr day in and day out. Keeping the discussions going about GNR. The people who have created fan sites, such as yourself, to the people who made youtube videos, fan art, etc, etc, etc

And in a strange way the "we" even includes those people who bashed the band over that time as well. They kept things going as well. Thats what keeps up the passion. Without haters you cant test a fans passion for the band. That drives up the band, its name, and support even more in the long run.

well, people are just gonna keep fanning the fire till someone in the know says "there is no truth to the reunion rumors"

The only gnr reunion that should take place is the old new gnr lineup

[falungong69]

well, people are just gonna keep fanning the fire till someone in the know says "there is no truth to the reunion rumors"

Oh yeah, "the signs" are truly there.

They just released the album of the year. Something these same people said/hoped would never happen.




/jarmo

amen, preach it brother!  some people will never be happy.  gnr is a band, not a soap opera.  stop looking for the next big story because you're bored.  just listen to the awesome music and be happy. 

[D]

I never understood the constant "Attack" on the hardcore fanbase.

A big problem is how the fans are treated.

U could get away with that back in the late 80's early 90's. This day and age with the internet and stuff, shit spreads like wildfire and fans do get frustrated.

Why can't you Jarmo and Axl and everybody else realize that we are negative because we want him to succeed and it is very painful as a fan to watch your hero just let one of the best albums in a long long time just go down without a fight.

I've seen the numbers and it isn't even projected to be in the top 10 this week.

U take away the "negative" hardcore fan who bought 2 and 3 copies, how many do u think this would've sold? So I am tired of us fans being blamed for everything when in reality the blame lies squarely on the GNR organization.

we aren't "Negative" because it is fun. we don't just get bored and think "well hell, I think I'll go bitch about GNR for a while."

we want GNR and we want Axl to prove all the doubters and haters etc wrong but he is only giving those people fuel by the way the release has went so far and yes that affects us fans greatly because we are emotionally invested in the band and the music.

When CD came out, If there had been promotion and an interview or two, just some type of communication, there would be absolutely zero negativity.

Jarmo, can you honestly sit here and say this CD hasn't been completely mishandled by whoever the heck is in charge?

[falungong69]

I never understood the constant "Attack" on the hardcore fanbase.

A big problem is how the fans are treated.

U could get away with that back in the late 80's early 90's. This day and age with the internet and stuff, shit spreads like wildfire and fans do get frustrated.

Why can't you Jarmo and Axl and everybody else realize that we are negative because we want him to succeed and it is very painful as a fan to watch your hero just let one of the best albums in a long long time just go down without a fight.

I've seen the numbers and it isn't even projected to be in the top 10 this week.

U take away the "negative" hardcore fan who bought 2 and 3 copies, how many do u think this would've sold? So I am tired of us fans being blamed for everything when in reality the blame lies squarely on the GNR organization.

we aren't "Negative" because it is fun. we don't just get bored and think "well hell, I think I'll go bitch about GNR for a while."

we want GNR and we want Axl to prove all the doubters and haters etc wrong but he is only giving those people fuel by the way the release has went so far and yes that affects us fans greatly because we are emotionally invested in the band and the music.

When CD came out, If there had been promotion and an interview or two, just some type of communication, there would be absolutely zero negativity.

Jarmo, can you honestly sit here and say this CD hasn't been completely mishandled by whoever the heck is in charge?

maybe it's part of a plan that you simply don't understand because you don't really know anything about what's happening behind the scenes.  maybe there's any number of reasons for anything, and there's no point in speculation.  for years, everybody's wanted chinese democracy.  now they have it.  and yet there's still plenty to complain about.

for the record, WE aren't being negative.  just a few people who think that axl owes them something.  lots of us are perfectly happy to enjoy this amazing music and share that love with our friends.  i'm sorry that's not good enough for you.

[jarmo]

Jarmo, you clearly dont get it.

I think I do.

The ones who left are always the "most important" ones....


You and I both know that the current guitar players could very well become the same kind of stars you think only Buckethead or Robin could become.

The "We" are the fans who supported Axl and the new band over the years through the ups and downs. The people who accepted Axls vision and new band. The people who went a show or multiple shows. The people who became passionate fans about that very band and vision. The people who would keep the gnr name out there by constantly nagging their family and friends about GNR and how Axl will one day return. etc etc

Funny how suddenly everybody's a supporter while I've been the "asskisser" for years....


 

Just very ironic....

Why can't you Jarmo and Axl and everybody else realize that we are negative because we want him to succeed and it is very painful as a fan to watch your hero just let one of the best albums in a long long time just go down without a fight.

You're negative because YOU chose to be!


Some people see negative things in every fucking thing. It's how they are.....

It's got nothing to do with me.





/jarmo

[D]

I haven't been too negative but I admit I am beginning to get a tad frustrated with all of this. When I see other bands and artists who are outdoing this, It pisses me off because it shouldn't happen.

It just seems the label released this before Axl was ready.That for me is the only explanation.

Now they could announce a world tour and all that tomorrow which would be fantastic.


I just hope if they do wait till early next year or whenever, the album can still be saved.

I think I can speak for that part of the fanbase when I say, that most of us maybe had unrealistic expectations. Had the CD been released though with a proper single/video and we had a RS Axl cover with interview and all that plus tour dates. It would be Christmas everyday around these forums.

Its just how everything has been handled that makes us nervous because we want this to be successful so Axl will keep releasing music and he will prove everybody wrong etc.


If this doesn't go Gold, I am just afraid Axl will be content living his life *which is fine* without ever releasing anything else.

Everyone just figured after being so meticulous with this album and making sure it was exact, that the release strategy would be amazing also......................................


I wonder if Axl was really happy with a Best Buy Exclusive etc? It makes u wonder if he was forced into it somehow.


I just hope he knows the album is great regardless of what the numbers say.