Technical discussion of "Chinese Democracy", the music

[Thorazine Shuffle]

An effect is a 'signature sound' ; if it makes a sound, it's a sound.  You may not like them, but Pete Hook from New Order's signature sound isn't anything but a combination of effects boxes. Nobody else uses it or sounds like him. Nobody else sounds quite like Bucket, and if sounds good, that's all that matters.

There is a substanstial difference between a stompbox and something as abrasive as a kill-switch.

Think of it this way, would you like to hear a wah on every damn solo ala that guitarist for Godsmack?  Hell no.  It's predictable and he is hiding his sloppiness behind the wah.

OK, Pete Townsend.  What if he used a tremelo on every rhythm he does?  You would feel like you were on a boat getting dizzy.

Jack White.  I like his playing but he is always using that fuckin whammy.

Peter Frampton.  The man is known for constantly usingf a talk box.

The Edge.  I respect his playing, but could you imagine U2s songs without that damn delay pedal?

Using a pedal like a chorus, flange, phase, reverb, or something that "colors" your tone is a signature sound.  Now the guitarists I mentioned above and Bucket might "think" it's a signature sound, but really it's the same tired ass guitar trickery.


Bucket uses the same run patterns and abuses his killswitch.  Fact. 

I play in a rock band and I have 17 different pedals, and a line 6 modular pedal.  I change it up.  That might be excessive for some guitarists, but at least I'm not using something as artificial as my talkbox and whammy constantly.

And no disrepect at all to the guitarists I mentioned.  I'm a fan of every one and they are where I want to be in music, but not by relying on one or two "tone-shifting" effects.

[mcmurray]

An effect is a 'signature sound' ; if it makes a sound, it's a sound.  You may not like them, but Pete Hook from New Order's signature sound isn't anything but a combination of effects boxes. Nobody else uses it or sounds like him. Nobody else sounds quite like Bucket, and if sounds good, that's all that matters.

There is a substanstial difference between a stompbox and something as abrasive as a kill-switch.

Think of it this way, would you like to hear a wah on every damn solo ala that guitarist for Godsmack?  Hell no.  It's predictable and he is hiding his sloppiness behind the wah.

OK, Pete Townsend.  What if he used a tremelo on every rhythm he does?  You would feel like you were on a boat getting dizzy.

Jack White.  I like his playing but he is always using that fuckin whammy.

Peter Frampton.  The man is known for constantly usingf a talk box.

The Edge.  I respect his playing, but could you imagine U2s songs without that damn delay pedal?

Using a pedal like a chorus, flange, phase, reverb, or something that "colors" your tone is a signature sound.  Now the guitarists I mentioned above and Bucket might "think" it's a signature sound, but really it's the same tired ass guitar trickery.


Bucket uses the same run patterns and abuses his killswitch.  Fact. 

I play in a rock band and I have 17 different pedals, and a line 6 modular pedal.  I change it up.  That might be excessive for some guitarists, but at least I'm not using something as artificial as my talkbox and whammy constantly.

And no disrepect at all to the guitarists I mentioned.  I'm a fan of every one and they are where I want to be in music, but not by relying on one or two "tone-shifting" effects.

Have you ever tried using a killswitch?  It's not an 'effect', it's a technique.  And 17 different pedals?!  I think you're the one hiding behind effects mate.

If you can't stand buckethead, don't buy the album, because his parts are obviously going to ruin it for you.

[Thorazine Shuffle]

An effect is a 'signature sound' ; if it makes a sound, it's a sound.  You may not like them, but Pete Hook from New Order's signature sound isn't anything but a combination of effects boxes. Nobody else uses it or sounds like him. Nobody else sounds quite like Bucket, and if sounds good, that's all that matters.

There is a substanstial difference between a stompbox and something as abrasive as a kill-switch.

Think of it this way, would you like to hear a wah on every damn solo ala that guitarist for Godsmack?  Hell no.  It's predictable and he is hiding his sloppiness behind the wah.

OK, Pete Townsend.  What if he used a tremelo on every rhythm he does?  You would feel like you were on a boat getting dizzy.

Jack White.  I like his playing but he is always using that fuckin whammy.

Peter Frampton.  The man is known for constantly usingf a talk box.

The Edge.  I respect his playing, but could you imagine U2s songs without that damn delay pedal?

Using a pedal like a chorus, flange, phase, reverb, or something that "colors" your tone is a signature sound.  Now the guitarists I mentioned above and Bucket might "think" it's a signature sound, but really it's the same tired ass guitar trickery.


Bucket uses the same run patterns and abuses his killswitch.  Fact. 

I play in a rock band and I have 17 different pedals, and a line 6 modular pedal.  I change it up.  That might be excessive for some guitarists, but at least I'm not using something as artificial as my talkbox and whammy constantly.

And no disrepect at all to the guitarists I mentioned.  I'm a fan of every one and they are where I want to be in music, but not by relying on one or two "tone-shifting" effects.

Have you ever tried using a killswitch?  It's not an 'effect', it's a technique.  And 17 different pedals?!  I think you're the one hiding behind effects mate.

If you can't stand buckethead, don't buy the album, because his parts are obviously going to ruin it for you.

Killswitch is a cool toy.  No I do not have one installed.  A technique is pressing a button?

Different pedals are used for different songs.  I've got 3 albums out, therefore, different songs might have some different effects throughout a song.  Take a listen and you'll hear how I'm not "hiding" behind 17 pedals.  Mate.

Oh by the way, I think I'll buy the album, just like I have plenty of bucketheads albums.  This is a Guns N' Roses forum, not a Buckethead forum.  You can still respect the player and his abilities and question some techniques, right?

[ironfin]

I just wanted to start a thread for fellow musicians who enjoy the new technical side of the band Guns N' Roses.  The sloppiness of the Appetite days are long gone and for instrumentalists like me, I welcome the craftsmanship the new Guns bring to the single. 

Firstly, have any of you pulled off the solos yet?  I think Buckethead's work is fucking ridiculous, but not too overboard for a rock song.  I'm glad Axl had the balls to pull these guys in, but at the same time keep it rocking.  Not like some Dream Theatre stuff, but a happy medium. 

So... what are your thoughts?  Critiques?  Are any of you having fun learning the new track?   

Appetite For Destruction is as perfect a recording as you can get. Its backbones were recorded live...yes with the musicians playing at the same time (obviously solos & vocals were over dubbed). Rock Music / Indie Music & Classical Music is all about people playing at the same time! Its like a call and response. Appetite is so popular because it has a raw energy. Rock music recorded to a click track, one bar at a time, one musician at a time runs the risk of sounding flat and lifeless. Appetite was mixed live without automation - I read a fascinating interview with the mixing engineers, something like 6 people were at the desk doing the final mixes! 

The Chinese Democracy track sound great. I love the mix. The bass seems a little quiet but apparently Pitman has added sub bass...so I will have to hear through a sub before a final judgement. I like the vocals, SFX, drums & guitars. The drums are really in your face which I love. Guitars sound great.

I can't believe that you called Appetite "sloppy" on a Guns n' Roses message board.

[Silverchair]

Appetite is not messy... but it isn't the overproduced perfection people put out now. It's not flawless.

As far as the pedals go.... I have over 20 pedals... not in use at the same time on the same set up. I am a rhythm guitarist... I'm a pitful lead guitarist. But I love to color and change the shape of the songs. I enjoy having versatility and different distortions/overdrive. No overdrive is the same. I enjoy having my choice of any 6 pedals I think would go great with a particular song.

That's just me. So do I think Thorazine Shuffle  is hiding behind 17 pedals?? no. and until you hear his stuff you don't really know either. besides guys who are into pedals... it becomes like a hobby. I'm borderline about to call myself a collector.

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Appetite is not messy... but it isn't the overproduced perfection people put out now. It's not flawless.

As far as the pedals go.... I have over 20 pedals... not in use at the same time on the same set up. I am a rhythm guitarist... I'm a pitful lead guitarist. But I love to color and change the shape of the songs. I enjoy having versatility and different distortions/overdrive. No overdrive is the same. I enjoy having my choice of any 6 pedals I think would go great with a particular song.

That's just me. So do I think Thorazine Shuffle  is hiding behind 17 pedals?? no. and until you hear his stuff you don't really know either. besides guys who are into pedals... it becomes like a hobby. I'm borderline about to call myself a collector.

I'm in a 3 piece band, so I'm the only guitarist, but you are absolutely right in that I use my pedals in the same way you do.

I'm a collector too.  Spent close to 10 grand on gear this year.  Next year I have one guitar in mind, and that's it...hopefully!

[Silverchair]

Appetite is not messy... but it isn't the overproduced perfection people put out now. It's not flawless.

As far as the pedals go.... I have over 20 pedals... not in use at the same time on the same set up. I am a rhythm guitarist... I'm a pitful lead guitarist. But I love to color and change the shape of the songs. I enjoy having versatility and different distortions/overdrive. No overdrive is the same. I enjoy having my choice of any 6 pedals I think would go great with a particular song.

That's just me. So do I think Thorazine Shuffle  is hiding behind 17 pedals?? no. and until you hear his stuff you don't really know either. besides guys who are into pedals... it becomes like a hobby. I'm borderline about to call myself a collector.

I'm in a 3 piece band, so I'm the only guitarist, but you are absolutely right in that I use my pedals in the same way you do.

I'm a collector too.  Spent close to 10 grand on gear this year.  Next year I have one guitar in mind, and that's it...hopefully!

do I smell PRS? lol...

that's mine. i love my 72 Telecaster Deluxe. My next axe is a PRS Custom 22. I want a GIbson Les Paul Custom too... great guitars.

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Appetite is not messy... but it isn't the overproduced perfection people put out now. It's not flawless.

As far as the pedals go.... I have over 20 pedals... not in use at the same time on the same set up. I am a rhythm guitarist... I'm a pitful lead guitarist. But I love to color and change the shape of the songs. I enjoy having versatility and different distortions/overdrive. No overdrive is the same. I enjoy having my choice of any 6 pedals I think would go great with a particular song.

That's just me. So do I think Thorazine Shuffle  is hiding behind 17 pedals?? no. and until you hear his stuff you don't really know either. besides guys who are into pedals... it becomes like a hobby. I'm borderline about to call myself a collector.

I'm in a 3 piece band, so I'm the only guitarist, but you are absolutely right in that I use my pedals in the same way you do.

I'm a collector too.  Spent close to 10 grand on gear this year.  Next year I have one guitar in mind, and that's it...hopefully!

do I smell PRS? lol...

that's mine. i love my 72 Telecaster Deluxe. My next axe is a PRS Custom 22. I want a GIbson Les Paul Custom too... great guitars.

Nah, even though those are great guitars.

I'm a Fernandes guy.  Have 3 of them.  The Ravelle Elite, The vortex deluxe, and a Monterey Deluxe.

The nex one is their new flying V they have that's a grand.  I'm kinda pushing for an endorsement, but I've got to get signed first before that's considered.

Sorry for going off topic Mods.