Technical discussion of "Chinese Democracy", the music

[Mobenrad]

Buckethead's solo was amazing.

Finck's is boring and simple.

There's far too much guitar work going on in the song. It's very distracting and somewhat overwhelming for other elements in the song.

The drums are perfect.

Axl is perfect. For the most part.

Overall - 7/10.

[Voodoochild]

Trying to post this again:

I think Ron's guitar work really gave the song a whole new level of awesomeness. Bucket's licks (specially the killswitch towards the end) are insane it has a perfect tone (unlike his live sound).

Didn't like much the Robin and Richard's (or Paul's) riffs in the verses condensed in the right channel, but I can live with that.

The bass work is cool, specially before the change in the chords pattern in the chorus.

I rather have Frank's drums on this song. Brain's work was kinda repetitive IMO, even if I prefer his tone.

Axl's layers are awesome. I was listening to Paradise City yesterday and noticed the begining with some layers too, so I can't really understand why someone would complain for having several "Axls" singing - it was always like this.

Mixing was killer, way better than Shacklers IMO. I just don't understand why change Ron's place on stereo from right in the verses and left in the chorus. Still, is amazing and everything sounds in place.

I kinda miss the old synth towards the end like in 2001, but Bucket and Ron fills sounds awesome enough.

Overall, 9/10.

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Trying to post this again:

I think Ron's guitar work really gave the song a whole new level of awesomeness. Bucket's licks (specially the killswitch towards the end) are insane it has a perfect tone (unlike his live sound).

Didn't like much the Robin and Richard's (or Paul's) riffs in the verses condensed in the right channel, but I can live with that.

The bass work is cool, specially before the change in the chords pattern in the chorus.

I rather have Frank's drums on this song. Brain's work was kinda repetitive IMO, even if I prefer his tone.

Axl's layers are awesome. I was listening to Paradise City yesterday and noticed the begining with some layers too, so I can't really understand why someone would complain for having several "Axls" singing - it was always like this.

Mixing was killer, way better than Shacklers IMO. I just don't understand why change Ron's place on stereo from right in the verses and left in the chorus. Still, is amazing and everything sounds in place.

I kinda miss the old synth towards the end like in 2001, but Bucket and Ron fills sounds awesome enough.

Overall, 9/10.

I agree with all the above except for the kill switch.  Now I know I'm veering a bit off course, but unless a good bit of Buckets solos are gone or different from the leaks, Bucket abuses the kill switch, similar to how Kirk Hammett hides behind the wah so much..  I also tend to notice that a lot of of his fast fills consist of a very similar pattern. 

Now he slays me on the guitar, and most others, but I can't help but notice similarities amongst his solos.  For this song it's awesome, but if he is abusing the kill switch and familiar runs through the entire album like the leaks, it'll be a bit disappointing.

However, Ron's contribution to this song really added some "meat" to the track.  It through me off a few listens but I think he saved the song. 

And I've been playing a long time, and when I hear most any solo, while I might not be able to replicate it unless I work hard, I can see in my mind as I'm listening kinda what the guitarist is doing.  But on Shacklers, I've rewinded Rons solo dozens of times on that track and just laugh my ass off because it's so awesome.  I cannot for the life of me imagine in my head what he is doing.  I know he is using a fretless and a whammy pedal, but other than that it is just out of this world.

Just my 2 cents, and I respect all of the guitar contributions.  Just hope I haven't veered off topic from the song.

[markreed]

Maybe Bucket does abuse the KillSwitch, but it's part of his signature soun, and it immediately places his work as unique in style and sound, which makes this track stand out as different from everything else around it.

[GNRreunioneventually]

I just wanted to start a thread for fellow musicians who enjoy the new technical side of the band Guns N' Roses.  The sloppiness of the Appetite days are long gone and for instrumentalists like me, I welcome the craftsmanship the new Guns bring to the single.  Firstly, have any of you pulled off the solos yet?  I think Buckethead's work is fucking ridiculous, but not too overboard for a rock song.  I'm glad Axl had the balls to pull these guys in, but at the same time keep it rocking.  Not like some Dream Theatre stuff, but a happy medium. 

So... what are your thoughts?  Critiques?  Are any of you having fun learning the new track?   

you got a problem with sloppiness?

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Maybe Bucket does abuse the KillSwitch, but it's part of his signature soun, and it immediately places his work as unique in style and sound, which makes this track stand out as different from everything else around it.

An effect should not be termed as an "signature sound".

[Voodoochild]

I agree with all the above except for the kill switch.  Now I know I'm veering a bit off course, but unless a good bit of Buckets solos are gone or different from the leaks, Bucket abuses the kill switch, similar to how Kirk Hammett hides behind the wah so much.. 

I know what you mean, but I think it fits right in Chinese Democracy, just as in Better before Robin kicks his solo.

But yeah, from what I heard, he used it pretty much in every song besides Madagascar.

I also tend to notice that a lot of of his fast fills consist of a very similar pattern. 

Thank you. I've been saying this for a very long time. This cliche pattern is used in almost every single solo he does, including his solo carreer. I don't think Chinese has it, but anyways... The first Better solo IMO could be better without this pattern repeated ad nauseum.

I know he is using a fretless and a whammy pedal, but other than that it is just out of this world.

I don't think he used whammy. If anything, he used his thimble along with the fretless or in the fretted part of the solo.

BTW, check your pm.

[Jim Bob]

I love the little bits Ron added in the verses    I can't wait to see what he's added on the other songs.

[Bruno Poeys]

I agree with all the above except for the kill switch.  Now I know I'm veering a bit off course, but unless a good bit of Buckets solos are gone or different from the leaks, Bucket abuses the kill switch, similar to how Kirk Hammett hides behind the wah so much..  I also tend to notice that a lot of of his fast fills consist of a very similar pattern.

I love the guy, but it's really annoying. I'm been saying that lately as well - his abuse of the killswitch and the patterns is damn annoying. It works on Better, it works on TWAT, but it doesn't work on CD, IRS, Rhiad... it's just too boring sometimes.

Now he slays me on the guitar, and most others, but I can't help but notice similarities amongst his solos.  For this song it's awesome, but if he is abusing the kill switch and familiar runs through the entire album like the leaks, it'll be a bit disappointing.

That's why I hope Ron recorded several solos, not only Shackler's solo.

However, Ron's contribution to this song really added some "meat" to the track.  It through me off a few listens but I think he saved the song.

I love the whole song, but imo Ron's rhythm brought the song to a new level. 

And I've been playing a long time, and when I hear most any solo, while I might not be able to replicate it unless I work hard, I can see in my mind as I'm listening kinda what the guitarist is doing.  But on Shacklers, I've rewinded Rons solo dozens of times on that track and just laugh my ass off because it's so awesome.  I cannot for the life of me imagine in my head what he is doing.  I know he is using a fretless and a whammy pedal, but other than that it is just out of this world.

Well, i'm not a guitarist but i'm familiar with Ron's work. You probably know, but the first bits of the solo are some killer fretless slides, some tapping and in the end he uses the thimble (if you don't know how it works, i can show ya). I think so, though. But you're right - even Petrucci couldn't recognize what Ron was playing on his solo record "Adventures of Bumblefoot", so we're not alone on this one.

[Smoking Guns]

I love Bumble as a guy, and I respect his playing... But just because I don't know what he is doing in a solo, doesn't mean its a great solo.  Sometimes it seems because he is a virtuoso guitar player, he has to prove it every chance he gets.  Finck to me plays more for the song which is what I think you should do.  Bumble seems to get carried away some IMO...  Bucket kicks ass and I prefer his solos to Bumble's, but the killswitch thing is old.  Since bucket sometimes does play more simple ballsy stuff that maybe Finck would play, maybe he adds the killswitch to let everyone know its him, that way nobody is ever confused again.  Ha.

[Smoking Guns]

Fuck me, every live video of Chinese Democracy has been taken down from You Tube!!!!!!!!!  I wanted to watcht the Rock N Rio 3 video clip to see how far the song has come... I wonder why take them down now?  Ugh!!

[Rainfox]

Can anybody comment on who plays what on the song Chinese Democracy?

The main riff/powerchord is Finck, right? And as the solo starts, that's Finck too, right? And then Bucket who comes in? And as Axl begins to sing again (after the solo), that's Bumble in the background, right?

Hope somebody can share some info on what they (think) are hearing, thanks!

 

[mcmurray]

Can anybody comment on who plays what on the song Chinese Democracy?

The main riff/powerchord is Finck, right? And as the solo starts, that's Finck too, right? And then Bucket who comes in? And as Axl begins to sing again (after the solo), that's Bumble in the background, right?

Hope somebody can share some info on what they (think) are hearing, thanks!

 

Buckets parts (lead guitar): the start of the intro i.e. 0:45 to 0:59, the fill at 1:32, 2:53 to 3:06, and 3:21 to 4:17.

Fincks part (lead guitar): 3:07 to 3:22

The rhythm guitar consists of: Finck on powerchords, Ron with the new fretless bits, Fortus, Huge and possibly Bucket are buried somewhere in there too.

[duga]

Fuck me, every live video of Chinese Democracy has been taken down from You Tube!!!!!!!!!  I wanted to watcht the Rock N Rio 3 video clip to see how far the song has come... I wonder why take them down now?  Ugh!!

Because you should only care about the single. 

[Rainfox]

THANKS, Murray.

 

[Aero]

it really kind of reminds me of a modern "it's so easy"

I agree. Low and really agressive vocals, really easy rytms... easy buy agressive drums... 1 main solo and 1 outro solo behind the vocals...


What I really didn't like was the solos, too much shredding but they all sounds the same, I can't find expression

[axl2]

it really kind of reminds me of a modern "it's so easy"

I agree. Low and really agressive vocals, really easy rytms... easy buy agressive drums... 1 main solo and 1 outro solo behind the vocals...


What I really didn't like was the solos, too much shredding but they all sounds the same, I can't find expression

There were also some blues licks played in that solo.

[markreed]

An effect is a 'signature sound' ; if it makes a sound, it's a sound.  You may not like them, but Pete Hook from New Order's signature sound isn't anything but a combination of effects boxes. Nobody else uses it or sounds like him. Nobody else sounds quite like Bucket, and if sounds good, that's all that matters.

[michaelvincent]

I think the final version of this song is great. Very hard-hitting. Having heard the bootlegs from the first times it was played until now is great, you can really hear how it grew and matured over a few years. I have to admit that I miss the little keyboard riff that used to come in right before the first verse though. It was pretty cool. But my overall opinion back then was that it was a cool rock number but a little plain. Bumblefoot's fretless parts really turn the verses around for me, they are really well done, those little slides are just awesome. It's the little touches like that that make it great. I also like that they added the harmony vocals in the first verse, I don't remember hearing those in the demo. Wasn't the rumor that Josh Freese actually wrote the guitar riff for this?

I feel like some people are kicking themselves a bit for checking out all the leaks because now they've heard so much of what is going to be on the album. I am so looking forward to hearing the finished product and figuring out what they've changed since the leaks. Even the first leak of IRS is different from the one that came after it.

I think I'm most looking forward to hearing the final mix of TWAT. The demos and leaks have been muddy, mix-wise but you can tell that song is going to be a motherfucker.

[mojoeye]

The main riff of 'Chinese Democracy' is reminiscent of the chorus to the Scorpions "Rock You Like a Hurricane". Someone with pro-tool skills should do a mash-up of the two.