Chinese Democracy Tracklist

[Lucs]

Anyone think we may see some kind of official announcement tonight regarding this track list?  I think an official confirmation or denial would end a whole lot of debating and confusion among fans.  

Hopefully at the very least Mysteron might have some update to give us?..

Yeah I'm waiting with some other french fans, it's 1.15am here, we'd like to know if we can go to bed ?

[jarmo]

Some people are bummed because they expected the release of this album to match the last release of original works from Guns N' Roses, Use Your Illusion 1 and 2.

I wonder how many of those same people thought UYI wasn't great at first because it wasn't AFD....

I thought Chinese Democracy would be a huge musical acomplishment and unique expression of unparalleled creativity, but for the time being it appears to be a mere mortal rocking album thats only fucking brilliant.

If you look back at what GN'R has gone through since the last album was released, wouldn't you still think it was a huge accomplishment, and not only musically, to get the album released?

and by the way, as far as the "you stole the song so why are you complaining" BS, at least 5 of these songs have been played live very often.

Unless you went to multiple shows on the tours, you wouldn't really know the songs.

But things are a bit different if you downloaded them, either pirated versions or live recordings.

MOst every major music publication i;ve read has done some sort of write up on the leaks and the live material. Didnt one review cover the leaks song by song as an album review would? Point being, an 80% complete initial reaction has already been made by the people who will or would have written reviews.

And now you know why we're against leaks on this site.

Thanks for explaining it so nicely.  


At the end of the day, I'm still amazed of the ones who feel "let down".

This is the moment you all claim you've been awaiting for since 1993.

And what happens?




/jarmo

[riotact_vancity]

to be clear, i will buy the album and probably each song on itunes, so chalk me up for two.....however, i listened to all the leaks and burned most of them to CDs or ipod. Why? because it'd been a long time and we had no reason to think the album was coming anytime soon, as of the last leaks. If Axl would have written a note saying "the album IS coming, please wait to hear it as a singular entity" or something to that effect, i personally would have held off.

i dont mean to bring negativity to something i've been waiting 13 years for, it's just a bit of let down when i can sing probably 4-7 of the songs along with the track on first listen.

Dude - did you read what you wrote, before you posted?  You stole the music, which you wouldn't have done if Axl told you to wait...and now you are bummed because you have been listening to these stolen songs, and it is a letdown?   

i wouldnt have listened if Axl said the album was coming, but he didnt, so i listened because frankly i (we?) were desperate for new material. To say someone stole the music is kind of leap. I'd be more than willing to pay for it, but we were never given a sense of when or if we'd ever get the chance.

hypothetically...say the leaks come out, but we never get to where we are now, 5 weeks short of a release. At what point would you or anyone else then listen to the leaks? Are you willing to say you'd go to the grave never having heard those songs, on principle? Of course not because that's ridiculous. So everyone has a line. For Better, IRS, CD etc, my line was "i already heard em live" for the rest it was "we've heard nothing indicating these will come out, and it's been 13 years already (for me)"

for what it's worth, the leaks i downloaded off limewire i've set it so those songs specifically cant be uploaded by anyone off my computer, so i'm not sharing them. And i will be buying every single one of them probably twice (assuming an Itunes release) so it's not like i "stole" them as a replacement for physical property. I downloaded them in temporary lieu of physical product with the hope of replacing them with official, sanctioned releases.

[-Jack-]

lol at people saying they downloaded the music because they "didn't know the album was coming" and "were desperate for new material"

Obviously the album was coming eventually. For those disappointed, you spoiled the album for yourselves, and people even WARNED you about it. Having downloaded the leaks and listened to them, I'm still very excited for the album, and even if I wasn't, I wouldn't have the balls to complain about it since it would be MY fault I've heard most of it. lollllllllllllll.... people 

[RoCoKiN]

It's all about the liner notes...that's gonna be some interesting stuff!!

[riotact_vancity]

Some people are bummed because they expected the release of this album to match the last release of original works from Guns N' Roses, Use Your Illusion 1 and 2.

I wonder how many of those same people thought UYI wasn't great at first because it wasn't AFD....

I thought Chinese Democracy would be a huge musical acomplishment and unique expression of unparalleled creativity, but for the time being it appears to be a mere mortal rocking album thats only fucking brilliant.

If you look back at what GN'R has gone through since the last album was released, wouldn't you still think it was a huge accomplishment, and not only musically, to get the album released?

and by the way, as far as the "you stole the song so why are you complaining" BS, at least 5 of these songs have been played live very often.

Unless you went to multiple shows on the tours, you wouldn't really know the songs.

But things are a bit different if you downloaded them, either pirated versions or live recordings.

MOst every major music publication i;ve read has done some sort of write up on the leaks and the live material. Didnt one review cover the leaks song by song as an album review would? Point being, an 80% complete initial reaction has already been made by the people who will or would have written reviews.

And now you know why we're against leaks on this site.

Thanks for explaining it so nicely.  


At the end of the day, I'm still amazed of the ones who feel "let down".

This is the moment you all claim you've been awaiting for since 1993.

And what happens?




/jarmo

is there ANYONE on this board who heard of Better and didnt at least check it up on youtube multiple times? The show i went to was Dec 6, 06, when everyone already knew better was out and there were multiple live recordings on youtube. Were we supposed to not watch those? At the very least, the most pious, legal minded person on this board who would never download leaks, has most likely heard Madagascar, Better, the Blues, CD and IRS many many times on youtube.

i get why the board, you and the band are against leaks. I would have much preferred it didnt leak, but given the circumstances of the wait and the multiple false starts and the lack of communication from the band as to what/ when/ why, it should be at least understandable that people listened to them.

[sofine11]

Some people are bummed because they expected the release of this album to match the last release of original works from Guns N' Roses, Use Your Illusion 1 and 2.

I wonder how many of those same people thought UYI wasn't great at first because it wasn't AFD....

I thought Chinese Democracy would be a huge musical acomplishment and unique expression of unparalleled creativity, but for the time being it appears to be a mere mortal rocking album thats only fucking brilliant.

If you look back at what GN'R has gone through since the last album was released, wouldn't you still think it was a huge accomplishment, and not only musically, to get the album released?

and by the way, as far as the "you stole the song so why are you complaining" BS, at least 5 of these songs have been played live very often.

Unless you went to multiple shows on the tours, you wouldn't really know the songs.

But things are a bit different if you downloaded them, either pirated versions or live recordings.

MOst every major music publication i;ve read has done some sort of write up on the leaks and the live material. Didnt one review cover the leaks song by song as an album review would? Point being, an 80% complete initial reaction has already been made by the people who will or would have written reviews.

And now you know why we're against leaks on this site.

Thanks for explaining it so nicely.  


At the end of the day, I'm still amazed of the ones who feel "let down".

This is the moment you all claim you've been awaiting for since 1993.

And what happens?




/jarmo

So Jarmo, are you still pleading the 5th on whether this set is legit?

[Wooody]

but what do you expect from the kids, when christmas is postponed for years and years? those kids have even grown up and still believe in santa. that's something. i saw listening to the leaks more like opening those small doors on my advent calendar... and i still don't know all the presents i'll get. so, i'm a bit ambivalent when i look at the tracklist, but still excited.

Christmas wasn't postponed. You just didn't know what Christmas THAT gift was gonna be under the tree. 

Then when you knew it was closer than ever, you decided not to wait.




/jarmo

 

yeah well, n 2006 "santa" threw 4 or 5 presents live from the stage to me... I didn't unwrap shit !

[riotact_vancity]

lol at people saying they downloaded the music because they "didn't know the album was coming" and "were desperate for new material"

Obviously the album was coming eventually. For those disappointed, you spoiled the album for yourselves, and people even WARNED you about it. Having downloaded the leaks and listened to them, I'm still very excited for the album, and even if I wasn't, I wouldn't have the balls to complain about it since it would be MY fault I've heard most of it. lollllllllllllll.... people 

the album was "obviously" coming in 1999 when OMG and the rolling stone article came out. It was "obviously" coming in 2001 after rock in rio, it was "obviously" coming in 2002 after MTV, it was "obviously" coming in 2006 after a successful tour and Axl saying he hoped it'd be out by March the next year...back to my point above: at what point do you say "gee, it might never come, i'm gonna listen to these songs"? How long do you reasonably wait?

[faldor]

to be clear, i will buy the album and probably each song on itunes, so chalk me up for two.....however, i listened to all the leaks and burned most of them to CDs or ipod. Why? because it'd been a long time and we had no reason to think the album was coming anytime soon, as of the last leaks. If Axl would have written a note saying "the album IS coming, please wait to hear it as a singular entity" or something to that effect, i personally would have held off.

i dont mean to bring negativity to something i've been waiting 13 years for, it's just a bit of let down when i can sing probably 4-7 of the songs along with the track on first listen.

Dude - did you read what you wrote, before you posted?  You stole the music, which you wouldn't have done if Axl told you to wait...and now you are bummed because you have been listening to these stolen songs, and it is a letdown?   

i wouldnt have listened if Axl said the album was coming, but he didnt, so i listened because frankly i (we?) were desperate for new material. To say someone stole the music is kind of leap. I'd be more than willing to pay for it, but we were never given a sense of when or if we'd ever get the chance.

hypothetically...say the leaks come out, but we never get to where we are now, 5 weeks short of a release. At what point would you or anyone else then listen to the leaks? Are you willing to say you'd go to the grave never having heard those songs, on principle? Of course not because that's ridiculous. So everyone has a line. For Better, IRS, CD etc, my line was "i already heard em live" for the rest it was "we've heard nothing indicating these will come out, and it's been 13 years already (for me)"

for what it's worth, the leaks i downloaded off limewire i've set it so those songs specifically cant be uploaded by anyone off my computer, so i'm not sharing them. And i will be buying every single one of them probably twice (assuming an Itunes release) so it's not like i "stole" them as a replacement for physical property. I downloaded them in temporary lieu of physical product with the hope of replacing them with official, sanctioned releases.

When did Axl ever say the album WASN'T coming?  I never heard him say that.  I've heard him say it's coming countless times.  Granted, we went awhile without hearing much, BUT at no point did anyone close to the project say it was not coming out.  You made that assumption yourself.  I just don't get the disappointment, especially since you plan to still buy the album possibly in 2 forms.  I'd understand more if you said, screw it, I already have the leaks.  I'm thrilled as hell we're gonna get the album in our hands and get to hear the tracks finished, the way they were meant to be heard.  It's almost a relief in a way.

[IKnowWhereIAM]

lol at people saying they downloaded the music because they "didn't know the album was coming" and "were desperate for new material"

Obviously the album was coming eventually. For those disappointed, you spoiled the album for yourselves, and people even WARNED you about it. Having downloaded the leaks and listened to them, I'm still very excited for the album, and even if I wasn't, I wouldn't have the balls to complain about it since it would be MY fault I've heard most of it. lollllllllllllll.... people 

Well said.  I am not judging anyone - its between you and your God - but how can you justify complaining if you gave in?  I have only one thing to complain about - tomorrow is Oct.17th and not Nov. 23rd.

[ben9785]

lol at people saying they downloaded the music because they "didn't know the album was coming" and "were desperate for new material"

Obviously the album was coming eventually. For those disappointed, you spoiled the album for yourselves, and people even WARNED you about it. Having downloaded the leaks and listened to them, I'm still very excited for the album, and even if I wasn't, I wouldn't have the balls to complain about it since it would be MY fault I've heard most of it. lollllllllllllll.... people 

I never said I was disappointed. I willingly chose to listen to the new music when it surfaced, but if anything it has kept me more interested in following the GNR news and now I'm more excited about the album than I might have been before. I personally wouldn't give a shit if the whole album was just the 8 or 9 songs that have already come out, whether live or leaks. I consider it a bonus that there'll be another 3 or 4 songs that are completely brand new.

[jarmo]

is there ANYONE on this board who heard of Better and didnt at least check it up on youtube multiple times?

On one hand you talk about the general public and on the other you talk about fans like yourself.

Make up your mind.

Yes, it's possible some casual fans thought the new material was great and went on Youtube looking for it.

So they heard other live versions. It's not really the same as listening to the album on your stereo....

it should be at least understandable that people listened to them.

I understand people wanting to hear new music.

That's not the point.

The point is some of you not taking any responsibility for the choices you made.

You chose to download and listen.


Nobody forced you no matter how much you claim otherwise.

The proof is the fact that many people here didn't make the same choice you did.



You chose to open the presents because you didn't know what day it would be ok to open them. It just wasn't enough to know that the day would come. You had to know when.

Now you're all upset because the date is almost here and you already ruined some of the surprises.

So you blame Santa Claus!




/jarmo

[faldor]

lol at people saying they downloaded the music because they "didn't know the album was coming" and "were desperate for new material"

Obviously the album was coming eventually. For those disappointed, you spoiled the album for yourselves, and people even WARNED you about it. Having downloaded the leaks and listened to them, I'm still very excited for the album, and even if I wasn't, I wouldn't have the balls to complain about it since it would be MY fault I've heard most of it. lollllllllllllll.... people 

the album was "obviously" coming in 1999 when OMG and the rolling stone article came out. It was "obviously" coming in 2001 after rock in rio, it was "obviously" coming in 2002 after MTV, it was "obviously" coming in 2006 after a successful tour and Axl saying he hoped it'd be out by March the next year...back to my point above: at what point do you say "gee, it might never come, i'm gonna listen to these songs"? How long do you reasonably wait?

As I said before, I'm not condemning you for downloading the leaks.  I did it too, I couldn't wait to hear the music, and it was GREAT.  I'm thrilled I'll get to hear them how GNR intended them to be heard once the album is released next month.  But for you to say, I couldn't wait, I've already heard those songs Axl, come up with 11 songs I haven't heard please.  Do you see how that's a little ridiculous?

[riotact_vancity]

to be clear, i will buy the album and probably each song on itunes, so chalk me up for two.....however, i listened to all the leaks and burned most of them to CDs or ipod. Why? because it'd been a long time and we had no reason to think the album was coming anytime soon, as of the last leaks. If Axl would have written a note saying "the album IS coming, please wait to hear it as a singular entity" or something to that effect, i personally would have held off.

i dont mean to bring negativity to something i've been waiting 13 years for, it's just a bit of let down when i can sing probably 4-7 of the songs along with the track on first listen.

Dude - did you read what you wrote, before you posted?  You stole the music, which you wouldn't have done if Axl told you to wait...and now you are bummed because you have been listening to these stolen songs, and it is a letdown?   

i wouldnt have listened if Axl said the album was coming, but he didnt, so i listened because frankly i (we?) were desperate for new material. To say someone stole the music is kind of leap. I'd be more than willing to pay for it, but we were never given a sense of when or if we'd ever get the chance.

hypothetically...say the leaks come out, but we never get to where we are now, 5 weeks short of a release. At what point would you or anyone else then listen to the leaks? Are you willing to say you'd go to the grave never having heard those songs, on principle? Of course not because that's ridiculous. So everyone has a line. For Better, IRS, CD etc, my line was "i already heard em live" for the rest it was "we've heard nothing indicating these will come out, and it's been 13 years already (for me)"

for what it's worth, the leaks i downloaded off limewire i've set it so those songs specifically cant be uploaded by anyone off my computer, so i'm not sharing them. And i will be buying every single one of them probably twice (assuming an Itunes release) so it's not like i "stole" them as a replacement for physical property. I downloaded them in temporary lieu of physical product with the hope of replacing them with official, sanctioned releases.

When did Axl ever say the album WASN'T coming?  I never heard him say that.  I've heard him say it's coming countless times.  Granted, we went awhile without hearing much, BUT at no point did anyone close to the project say it was not coming out.  You made that assumption yourself.  I just don't get the dissappointment, especially since you plan to still buy the album possibly in 2 forms.  I'd understand more if you said, screw it, I already have the leaks.  I'm thrilled as hell we're gonna get the album in our hands and get to hear the tracks finished, the way they were meant to be heard.  It's almost a relief in a way.

i never made the assumption it wasnt coming out, but common sense seems to dictate time was the enemy of the album's release. Hypothetically Axl is the one person who would never say it wasnt coming out. But i had read many what seemed to be reasonably informed sources, saying the album was dead (purported label execs, etc) on another board i had a sound engineer who worked on the album tell me Axl had nothing done vocally about 3 years ago...point being it's dishonest to say there were never any legitmate concerns that the album was dead.

of course i'm excited as hell for the album. I've waited longer for this than anything in my life and been through a lot directly for this band/ album, as my name will attest. And if he's actually got three albums canned, then we get two whole new albums. But from a marketing perspective, which is what my original posts were concerned with, it would seem to make sense to have the hyped comeback album be completely new, with the exception of the title track which obviously has to be on the album.

[jarmo]

But from a marketing perspective, which is what my original posts were concerned with, it would seem to make sense to have the hyped comeback album be completely new, with the exception of the title track which obviously has to be on the album.

But the songs are new to most people....

November Rain or Don't Cry weren't new when they were released officially. It didn't stop them from becoming what they are today, classics.




/jarmo

[Olorin]

Some people are bummed because they expected the release of this album to match the last release of original works from Guns N' Roses, Use Your Illusion 1 and 2.

I wonder how many of those same people thought UYI wasn't great at first because it wasn't AFD....


Sorry, I was referring to volume of new songs is all, not style - for me Illusions is a huge acomplishment that still offers new exploration and thrills.

I thought Chinese Democracy would be a huge musical acomplishment and unique expression of unparalleled creativity, but for the time being it appears to be a mere mortal rocking album thats only fucking brilliant.

If you look back at what GN'R has gone through since the last album was released, wouldn't you still think it was a huge accomplishment, and not only musically, to get the album released?

/jarmo

Yes and no, being ignorant of what has actually been the fundamental reasons for such long periods of inactivity I can only imagine. Looking back over the last 8 years,excluding the live shows and some other brief periods, it seems most of the members of Guns N' Roses have kept themselves busy with their solo work have not been working on this album. So who knows where the the real story lies or when it will be told, if ever.
I have my own thoughts on such matters, I have a massive respect for Axl Rose and I feel a connection to him through his words, deeds and music. My own thoughts on what some of the personal matters are, that may have made this whole process slower to many people than what they would consider to be the norm, are  no more than my own thoughts and considerations.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is the greatest achievment in the history of Guns N'Roses, I cant imagine how many times Axl has pulled the plug and walked away, only to suck it up and struggle on.
The turning point for me, this is no word of a lie, was in 2006 to see Axl Rose looking so comfortable with himself, so happy,content and pleased to be where he was and with what he was doing.
Thats when I knew that one day he would release this album.  Prior to that he seemed a shadow of himself, he really did.

I think the day this album is released the weight of the world will be lifted from his shoulders and I am completely thrilled for him.

[riotact_vancity]

is there ANYONE on this board who heard of Better and didnt at least check it up on youtube multiple times?

On one hand you talk about the general public and on the other you talk about fans like yourself.

Make up your mind.

Yes, it's possible some casual fans thought the new material was great and went on Youtube looking for it.

So they heard other live versions. It's not really the same as listening to the album on your stereo....

it should be at least understandable that people listened to them.

I understand people wanting to hear new music.

That's not the point.

The point is some of you not taking any responsibility for the choices you made.

You chose to download and listen.


Nobody forced you no matter how much you claim otherwise.

The proof is the fact that many people here didn't make the same choice you did.



You chose to open the presents because you didn't know what day it would be ok to open them. It just wasn't enough to know that the day would come. You had to know when.

Now you're all upset because the date is almost here and you already ruined some of the surprises.

So you blame Santa Claus!




/jarmo

saying i lacked responsibility for my choice seems to be making a bit much out of this. The only thing ruined for me, one among the many die hards, is the initial reaction. This isnt like seeing half a movie before it comes out, because whereas i'll watch the movie once, twice, three times, i'll listen to great songs 100s or 1000s of times. So while it is my fault i wont have the initial excitement of hearing completely new stuff, that would only last a short while.

if you read what i initially said, my concern was with how this affects the marketing of the album and the reviews of it. My having listened to the leaks is of no concern either way to the reviewer who has when he writes his coloumn. That they exist at all is the focus, because his job isnt to promote GnR, it's to report on GnR. And his reporting will reflect the lack of an initial, complete reaction.

as an aside, have you, Jarmo, listened to If the World prior to the movie, or Catcher in the Rye or the other non-sanctioned (lets be honest) leaks? And if not, at what point would you have listened to them?

[faldor]

But from a marketing perspective, which is what my original posts were concerned with, it would seem to make sense to have the hyped comeback album be completely new, with the exception of the title track which obviously has to be on the album.

But the songs are new to most people....

November Rain or Don't Cry weren't new when they were released officially. It didn't stop them from becoming what they are today, classics.




/jarmo

Exactly, we kind of get blinded some time and think that EVERYONE in the world knows about the 9 songs leaked earlier this year, and EVERYONE went searching for those songs and downloaded them.  The only people to do that were the hardcore fans from these boards.  People may know a little about the saga, but "Joe Plumber" (sorry John McCain) isn't at home saying how lame it is that the album is gonna contain 11 tracks that he COULD'VE already heard.  Just yesterday someone came on this board and posted in the Body of Lies thread that he went to see the movie and thought he heard Axl singing at the end of the movie so he came to this site to find out if it was true.  I was shocked he didn't already know, but some, no LOTS of people who are gonna buy the album know very little of what has gone on over the last nine years.  You've got to take that into perspective.  We are crazy addicted fans, for better or worse.  We know the ins and outs, others don't.

[riotact_vancity]

lol at people saying they downloaded the music because they "didn't know the album was coming" and "were desperate for new material"

Obviously the album was coming eventually. For those disappointed, you spoiled the album for yourselves, and people even WARNED you about it. Having downloaded the leaks and listened to them, I'm still very excited for the album, and even if I wasn't, I wouldn't have the balls to complain about it since it would be MY fault I've heard most of it. lollllllllllllll.... people 

the album was "obviously" coming in 1999 when OMG and the rolling stone article came out. It was "obviously" coming in 2001 after rock in rio, it was "obviously" coming in 2002 after MTV, it was "obviously" coming in 2006 after a successful tour and Axl saying he hoped it'd be out by March the next year...back to my point above: at what point do you say "gee, it might never come, i'm gonna listen to these songs"? How long do you reasonably wait?

As I said before, I'm not condemning you for downloading the leaks.  I did it too, I couldn't wait to hear the music, and it was GREAT.  I'm thrilled I'll get to hear them how GNR intended them to be heard once the album is released next month.  But for you to say, I couldn't wait, I've already heard those songs Axl, come up with 11 songs I haven't heard please.  Do you see how that's a little ridiculous?

obviously i'm expressing a selfish concern...again, i will direct to my initial post here which was about the marketing of an album which has for all intents and purposes already been 75% released.