The 2008/2009 NBA season thread

[pilferk]

Cle need to make Howard score 40 a game. I'd single cover him and dare him to beat me. Get him in foul trouble and don't let Lewis,Turk,Lee and Alston have wide open shots.

They'd beat Orlando IMO if they did this.

I'm not saying you're wrong...because I'd do the same thing, NOW, for a whole game.

But they tried what you're suggesting last night in OT.  They played pretty tough D on the shooters and played single coverage on Howard...who lit them up like a Christmas tree and basically won the game for the Magic.

I think you can single deny guard Howard (like the Celts did) and make him ordinary and then put pressure on the shooters to stop them from shooting. Also, you take Howard's touches away, and their spread loses it's post pass, which helps slow it down.  The question is: Can the CAVS do it.  So far, it seems like they can stop one or the other, but not both......Coming INTO the series, I'd say they made the right choice.  Guard Howard and make the shooters beat you, because they've been spotty all season, and even during the Boston series.  You gotta bank that you can win 4 of 7 that way.  But looking  BACK on the series, it looks like they should have tried it the other way, and hope that by putting pressure on the shooters, and denying Howard the ball with single coverage, might have worked out better.  I can't imagine it could have worked out much worse, eh?

[Mal Brossard]

That just begs the question of who do you put on Howard?

The Cavs don't have a good enough big guy to put on him.  Varejao gets lit up by him.  Z is too slow.  Wallace is 2" shorter and 20 lbs. lighter-- he's good defensively but will get easily outmuscled.  Joe Smith?  No way.

There are two things the Cavs need to do once Dan Gilbert sells 15% of the team to a Chinese investor (it's coming...): 1. Lock up Lebron long term, and 2. Get an at least somewhat dominant big man.

[pilferk]

That just begs the question of who do you put on Howard?

The Cavs don't have a good enough big guy to put on him.  Varejao gets lit up by him.  Z is too slow.  Wallace is 2" shorter and 20 lbs. lighter-- he's good defensively but will get easily outmuscled.  Joe Smith?  No way.

There are two things the Cavs need to do once Dan Gilbert sells 15% of the team to a Chinese investor (it's coming...): 1. Lock up Lebron long term, and 2. Get an at least somewhat dominant big man.

Which is why I asked the question: Can the CAVS do it. 

But they almost have to try.

And...I got bad news for you, my friend (though I doubt it's really much in the way of news)....Lebron will be in NYC, unless Gilbert offers to sell 75% of the team to LEBRON as compensation (which is against league rules, so he'd have to get a rule change through, too).  I just can't see Cleveland keeping him.  Who knows...maybe he'll offer them a "home town" discount.  But I think Lebron wants to win titles..and the Cavs can't afford to pay HIM and the talent he'd need around him.  Only a large market team could do that...and he ain't going to LA or Boston.  That leaves very few choices....never mind his friendship with Spike.
 
But if they could get a big man in the off season, they might be able to grab a title before Lebron leaves town....

[D]

Of course u can't just do it in OT but if u did it the whole game. howard may get 35 but If u drive at him u can possibly get him in foul trouble.

Its sort of what Orlando are doing on Lebron. He is getting 40 a night but his teammates are turning into spectators whereas when teams try to shut down Lebron, he not only still scores but dishes out tons of assists and gets his teammates going.

Lebron had 8 TO's in the 4th and OT

why? cause they single covered him with Pietrus and played the passing lanes


Cle are getting killed on the pick and roll, Hell I'd give Lebron a shot at Guarding howard. he is big and athletic enough to do better than anyone else on the team.

[Eazy E]

Yeah, I give credit to him too.  He's a good player but I'm not a fan of his.  Anytime someone is compared to Jordan, that is a big no-no to me.  That includes the adulterer.

That's bull.  Lebron himself never comes out and says he will be better than Jordan.  He always says the right thing, "It's an honour to be mentioned in the same sentence as those type of players".  You can't blame the guy for what the media is doing, he's out there playing basketball better than anyone... how could you not be a fan?

Even if you don't like all the hype surrounding Lebron, Dwight Howard summed it up perfectly for me when he said that Lebron is a great player, but he also brings out the best in all of us on the court.  Having a guy like that out there causes guys like Howard and the Magic to BRING it.  Makes for great basketball, doesn't make sense to not be a fan of the guy.

[fito_gnr]

lakers up 3-2!!!!!! this will be over on friday. finally lamar show up for this series....

I have to say it: you just can't put in the same sentence mo willams with scottie pippen!!!!! that?s just stupid 

[Ignatius]

Houston had the best roster? They had a fat Barkley way past his prime and an aging Olajuwon

Name by name...it was the best roster ever.

Now the issue with Jordan didn't win a ring without pippen it's like saying MJ didnt win the first three rings without Paxon or the last three without Wellington. I'm not comparing Paxon with Pippen, I'm just saying Jordan and Pippen can't be put on the same level either. Scottie was indeed an awesome player, but all I'm saying is HE became THAT good because Michael made him better.

Same thing goes with Horace Grant. He was a mediocre player after he left the Bulls, with Chicago he averaged 15 and 8 every night. Consistent and solid player down low, but never really a superstar.

What most of you FAIL to understand is Jordan made his teammates better and that's what Lebron is failing to do. Look at Michael's overall numbers from 87-91. Not only he averaged more points than Lebron's, but in 1989, Jordan averaged 32.5 points, 8 rebounds,  8 assists and 2.5 steals in 82 games. Lebron stats, being as good as they are, will never be THAT good. However, despite Jordan's stats, the Bulls couldnt' go pass the Pistons in the playoffs.

Jordan learned that in order to beat the Pistons he needed to rely on his teammates. He got them involved, he made him believe he was not going to be able to do everything by himself and his teammates stepped in. That, in my opinion is what Lebron's has failed to do so far.

These Cavs are no worse than the Bulls were in 1990-91. Mo Williams is just as good as Pippen was then.  Pippen became a superstar after the bulls first ring in 1991. That and the following season made Scottie the player we all remember. Then came the olympics in 92, All Star apperances... Obviously, Williams is not on that level yet, not even close, but all im saying is he could very well be on the same level now as Scottie was in 1990.

We'll see if Williams is able to reach new hights (like Pippen did) or not.

Go lakers!

[D]

Mo Williams has never been and will never be one of the greatest defensive players in NBA history

u seem to focus too much of 'Offense"

Pippen was considered the greatest defensive player on all those Bull's teams, he was an amazing rebounder


so please don't put Mo Williams anywhere near Scottie Pippen ever.

Pippen is a top 50 all time great and he proved in those seasons without Jordan that he was capable of maybe not taking chicago to a title, but he still got them pretty close. Chicago weren't a lottery team without Jordan, they still made it deep into the playoffs.

[Mal Brossard]

I hate to say "See, I told you so," but...

See? I told you so.

Get a few shots from Mo and/or West and/or Gibson, and you're all set. It's a different series. It's probably too little too late, but it's some solace knowing I was right.

50% from outside the arc, including 6 of 9 from Williams. Lebron was sub-par for all except the first, but the rest of the team picked it up. They got it when they needed it most.

If only it had happened earlier in the series, it would be over.

[Eazy E]

Lebron was sub-par for all except the first,

You're saying Lebron was sub-par in the fourth?   

[Mal Brossard]

Blah, that's what I meant.  Awesome fourth, sub-par first through third.  It's late, I had a long day at work, and have a 9 am office-wide meeting with the owners tomorrow.  My brain is fried.

[D]

Who cares

everybody knew Cle were winning game 5 at home


Game 6 is THE game just like I'll be shocked if Denver lose tomorrow

[gilee7]

Yeah, I give credit to him too.  He's a good player but I'm not a fan of his.  Anytime someone is compared to Jordan, that is a big no-no to me.  That includes the adulterer.

That's bull.  Lebron himself never comes out and says he will be better than Jordan.  He always says the right thing, "It's an honour to be mentioned in the same sentence as those type of players".  You can't blame the guy for what the media is doing, he's out there playing basketball better than anyone... how could you not be a fan?

Even if you don't like all the hype surrounding Lebron, Dwight Howard summed it up perfectly for me when he said that Lebron is a great player, but he also brings out the best in all of us on the court.  Having a guy like that out there causes guys like Howard and the Magic to BRING it.  Makes for great basketball, doesn't make sense to not be a fan of the guy.

Sure I can blame the media.  And I do.  Everything has to get built up so much.  Just let the game do the talking for them.

By wearing number 23 on his jersey, though, Lebron is begging for comparisons to Jordan. I've always felt that Lebron should create a legacy with his own number, because no matter what he accomplishes in his career, number 23 will always belong to MJ.

[Ignatius]

Lakers won! 


I'm not going to comment on the match cause I simply felt asleep waiting... I was awake still at 2:24 am (1 hour before the start) but already struggling to keep conciousness...

By reading the stats and recap, seemed like an all-around game for Kobe and Gasol with good contribution from Ariza and Odom. I guess this is the ideal game plan for Phil Jackson. Get everyone involved...now if only Bynum regained his confidence.

Lakers will face the Cavs in the final (me thinks).

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Lakers will face the Cavs in the final (me thinks).

If crooked-ass David Stern and his army of zebras have their way, yes.

That's referees to anyone who might not get the zebra reference.

[Mal Brossard]

Of course, because epic comebacks NEVER happen on their own.  Are you next going to tell me that the Red Sox 2004 ALCS comeback was somehow aided by umpiring?  Or the Bills' comeback over the Oilers in the 1992 NFL Playoffs?

[Eazy E]

If crooked-ass David Stern and his army of zebras have their way, yes.

That's referees to anyone who might not get the zebra reference.

I'm sick of hearing this.  The refs make terrible calls in BOTH directions.

The idea that David Stern or the refs are fixing the finals is asbolutely bogus.  If they are, they are doing an awful job.  Are these the same people that fixed four ratings-killing San Antonio championships?  Did they fix an embarassing sweep of their poster boy Lebron James?  Did they fix the New Jersey Nets (who can't even sellout during the playoffs) into the finals two years in a row?  Did they fix the chemistry between KG, Allen & Pierce?  Did they pull the trigger on the trades that sent Garnett to Boston and (the even more ridiculous) Gasol to the Lakers? 

Furhermore, is Dwight Howard not a big enough star to be in the Finals, the largest vote-getter for the All-star game ever?

Everyone knows the refs suck, even the NBA has been calling them on it in these playoffs, but they are too stupid to "fix" anything.  I'm also tired of players looking at the refs after EVERY play and going to chat with them, which NEVER reverses a call.  These guys need to just go out there and play basketball.

[faldor]

With all due respect, it's been PROVEN that NBA refs have fixed games in the past.  Tim Donaghey, that other old respected ref, I forget his name, etc.  So the idea isn't all that outlandish.

[crow316]

Dirty refs making calls so there mob buddies can cover the spread is different than thinking that Stern and the Refs are fixing games to get the finals they want.  Bad calls are part of the game. Always have been.  Sometimes the bad calls are pretty blatant though, especially with Prince James.

[D]

My Mavs got fucked in 2006 when Wade was shooting 210 FT's a game