The 2008/2009 NBA season thread

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I actually would love to see Bron vs Kobe but I can't help it, I am for Orlando just due to like u said, all this bullshit hype etc.

Aren't you a Lebron fan?

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, and I'm definitely not gonna go Booker Floyd on you and read your previous posts, but all this time I've been under the impression that you are a Lebron fan.

[D]

I respect his game and think he is the best player in the NBA but I am not a "Fan"

i am a Dirk Nowitzki fan but I can give credit where its due.

Cleveland aren't losing cause of Lebron, that is for sure.


I like Kobe also, but I hope U guys lose to Denver just cause of the hype and the NBA dream series of LA vs Cleveland.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I respect his game and think he is the best player in the NBA but I am not a "Fan"

i am a Dirk Nowitzki fan but I can give credit where its due.

Cleveland aren't losing cause of Lebron, that is for sure.


I like Kobe also, but I hope U guys lose to Denver just cause of the hype and the NBA dream series of LA vs Cleveland.

Yeah, I give credit to him too.  He's a good player but I'm not a fan of his.  Anytime someone is compared to Jordan, that is a big no-no to me.  That includes the adulterer.

I hope we don't lose, but we probably will. 

[faldor]

Yeah, complain about the officiating, while ignoring Howard tackling Delonte West with 6 seconds left.  No call, which would have led to Howard fouling out.  And then Retard Lewis hits the three.  You've got to be kidding me that you think the officiating was one sided for Cleveland.

The officiating in this series has been total shit both ways for both teams.

I didn't think that was a foul.  Both guys were going for the ball.  I'll admit, it looked a little touchy live, but watching the replay it looked like a clean play to me.  I'm pulling for Orlando so I may be a little biased.  And I understand you're a Cavs fan Mal, so I can sympathize.  Officiating aside, the Magic have played far better basketball this series.  They've made the Cavs not named Lebron look bad.  I thought Cleveland had enough balance this year, but Orlando has made them seriously one diminensional once again.

[D]

Yeah, People are just ignorant and don't realize exactly what Jordan did. his stats etc are just mindblowing and then u factor in all his Defensive 1st teams and no one has a chance.

Lebron's game is more like Magic Johnson anyway

[Mal Brossard]

The rest of the Cavs didn't need the Magic to make them look bad.  This is a lottery team without Lebron.  Lebron gets the MVP, the rest of the team gets LVT: Least Valuable Teammates.  Mo Williams is shit, Big Z needs to stop trying to shoot 3's, Pavlovic needs to learn how to play again, and Joe Smith should be getting more time than either Z or Wallace.

A quote from a friend of mine: "Being a Cleveland fan is like waking up every morning and having Mike Tyson walk into your house and watching helplessly as he stomps your children's testicles."

And from another friend: "Amazing highs with great stories, followed by considerably more crushing lows that will stick with you forever.  It's like having sex with a fairly attractive woman-- let's say an 8-- just one time, and getting herpes.  My life as a sports fan feels like I'm slowly being fed into a woodchipper."

Legendary Cleveland sportscaster Casey Coleman said after The Drive in the 1987 AFC Championship, "Cleveland fans deserve so much better than this."

It still rings true 22 years later.

[gilee7]

Yeah, People are just ignorant and don't realize exactly what Jordan did. his stats etc are just mindblowing and then u factor in all his Defensive 1st teams and no one has a chance.

That's why I don't like Lebron James. He's definitely an amazing player and quite possibly the best in the world right now (although I'd still rather have Kobe because of his closing skills), but it annoys the hell out of me to hear people say that Lebron is on his way to being better than Michael Jordan. People have already forgotten just how other-wordly Jordan's play really was.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

No one has an attention span anymore.

[w.axl.rose]

what

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Who is this?

[w.axl.rose]

THERE IN JERRY... THE MACKINAW PEACHES! 

[Ignatius]

The Cavs are going to lose if Lebron keeps having 40 + points nighs.

If and when Lebron scores 40 plus games (in the playoffs), the Cavs will lose 90% of the times just like when Michael Jordan scored 40 + points the Bulls lost 90% of the times (in the playoffs)

I may be the oldest one here to remember this but I had to say it....


Jordan learnt his lesson well. He realized in order to win championship he needed to involve his teammates and that's what he did. Yet, some of you still say, Jordan won his first three rings cause he had Pippen and Grant.

Pippen and Grant were just as good as Williams and Varejao. Pippen was a bench replacement for Brad Sellers when he started playing with the Bulls and Grant was for Charles Oakley. It was playing along Michael Jordan the factor which made these players better than they've ever been. Take a look at the Lakers roaster in 1991 or even the Celtics or the Pistons...they had better teams than the Bulls, but the Bulls became the better team cause Michael Jordan made them better players. Look at Paxon, Hodges, Bill fucking Cartwright...are you kidding me? were those players any better than Zilgauskas, Varejao, Williams, Szerbviak?

Take Scottie Pippen and Grant again...both became NBA legends afterall, but they didnt really do jack shit when they parted ways from MJ. (GRant won a ring, but his contribution was less noticeable.) They did however made it to the Conference finals in 94 without Michael, but that was because a) The East Conference was at its worst ever and b) They had learnt how to win closed games with Mike.

So, when some of you say Lebron had a shit team compared to Mike, I say that's bullshit. Lebron has a pretty good team if you ask me, but they need to step up a little. He needs to make them better players. Cleveland afterall has the same guys who helped the Cavs record the best W-L for the regular season...now it's playoff time and they are one loss away from taking a longer vacation. This team STILL needs to grow and that's something Lebron should be in charge for.

Go Lakers 

Go Bar?a 

[D]

If it weren't for the bullshit phantom foul on Pippen, the Bulls win a title without Jordan


I Appreciate u showing Jordan's greatness but don't do it at Pippen's expense

Scottie was a damn great player with or without Jordan. Those Portland teams he led came damn close if it weren't for a 4th quarter collapse to LA they would've won then.

[Ignatius]

If it weren't for the bullshit phantom foul on Pippen, the Bulls win a title without Jordan

So typical D....

Your arguments could be much stronger if you just stop "guessing" what would've happened if....

The Bulls didn't win a championship without Jordan. End of the story. Had the Bulls made it to the NBA final in 1994 they would've gotten to play the Rockets and who knows what would've happened....

Scottie was a damn great player with or without Jordan. Those Portland teams he led came damn close if it weren't for a 4th quarter collapse to LA they would've won then.

You are doing the same here... You are always using speculation as your way to defend your arguments. The Blazers lost that series because the Lakers were the better team in the end. Simple.

Yes, Pippen was a great player but moreso WITH Jordan than without. When he joined the Rockets, Houston had probably the best roster in NBA history but they didn't win shit.

In basketball, just like any other sport, when you are witnessing a close match, the small details count. Take tennis for instance, if Roger Federer had broken Nadal's serve when the score was 4-4  in the 5th last year at Wimbly 15-40 for Roger, FedeX would've could've shoul've won the match. But turns out, Nadal saved those break points and won the title. Same thing in Australia this year, if Roger handn't choked on set 5, he would've won the title...but he choked. Nadal won.

To me, I never really bother too much guessing what would've happen if things had ocurred differently. In the end, history only remembers the END result.

[Mal Brossard]

I'm not sure how anyone can say Varejao and Williams are anywhere close to Pippen and Grant.  Have you seen Varejao's skills with the ball (or lack thereof)?  He's a good rebounder and good at drawing charges.  Nothing more.  He's more Bill Laimbeer than Horace Grant.

As for Mo Williams, look at his numbers in this series.  23 of 71 shooting.  That's pathetic.  You'd better be joking if you think the guy is anywhere near Scottie Pippen's level.

Why, honestly, should Lebron have any faith in his teammates?  He's shooting 10% better than the rest of the team combined from the floor and from behind the arc.  The game plan of work the ball around and fire up a low-percentage shot (such as Ilgauskas from 3) doesn't work.  It failed in 2007, and it's failing now.

Simply put, the Cavs HAVE to ride Lebron.  They're a lottery team without him, while the Bulls without Jordan were still a playoff team and were putting in a run at a Championship without him.

[pilferk]

They might HAVE to rely on James....or not.

But they have to make a decision, one way or the other, and the rest of the team has to buy in.  Either let James be a scorer (which he can do) or let him be the passer (which he can also do).  But whatever the team decides, they all have to buy in and play DEFENSE.  That's a tall order, I think.  Kobe has done it, but then the rumblings from the Lakers are that nobody really likes playing with him.  If Lebron does it, it might pad his statline, they might increase their PPG, but I'm not 100% convinced it wins them more playoff basketball games.  Maybe, but only if the other guys on the floor buy in, take their garbage points, and continue to play d on the other end of the floor.

Look, a LOT of people were willing to overlook the gigantic flaw in this Cavs team: They really have no GREAT #2 or #3 option.  They have a passable 2 (who should really be a 3) and an acceptable 3 (who should be a 4 or 5).  They get away with that because the have James, who makes everyone on the floor a notch better....most of the time.  But when the playoffs come, and you're playing 4 to 7 games against the same quality opponent every night.....as the competition gets better and better as you move through the playoffs, the "James effect" becomes less and less of an advantage....especially when your 2 and 3 just flat out can't keep up their end of the bargain and finish.  I can say, with 100% certainty, that you put a legit #2, like Pierce (or Allen, for that matter) or Gasol, or someone like Ben Gordon on the floor with James and they'd have mopped the floor with the Magic. 


The other problem, so far, with this series is that the Cavs have actually done exactly what they set out to do, for the most part. They've minimized Howard and turned Orlando into a jumpshooting team.  OK, you're right.  That doesn't sound like much of a problem.   You'd THINK that would work, as it's typically what you want to do against a team like them.  The problem is....it hasn't.  The Cavs got what they wanted, and the Magic are beating their brains out with it (yeah, I know..a slight exageration given how close the games have been, but still).  They're shooting INCREDIBLY hot from the perimeter, and they seem to heat up JUST as the Cavs break out to a decent sized lead.  So the Cavs are stuck:  You either take out Howard, who you KNOW can control the game and beat you, or you play the shooters and make Howard beat you.  The Cavs have tried it both ways with varying success, playing Howard for 3/4 of the game yesterday, and then being FORCED to play the shooters, and having Howard beat them in OT.

I'm actually WITH you on this, right now.  They're down 3-1.  Let Lebron take over the game, try to pour in 60, and dare the Magic to stop him.  Lock down the jump shooters and make Howard keep pace with Lebron.  I don't think he can..and let's face it:  It can't work any worse than what the Cavs have tried so far.

[Mal Brossard]

The Magic are pretty much playing the basketball version of the spread offense: Have four guys who can shoot from long-range and one guy in Howard to control the rebounds.  The Cavs are an excellent defensive team, but only against an ordinary, everyday offense.  The Magic do not have that ordinary offense.  The Cavs have looked terrible in covering their rotations.  And the Magic have gotten away with some dirty screens, but let's not let that get in the way.

Simply, Williams and West are nowhere to be found.  If they hit even one of the open jumpers they repeatedly choked on in games 1 and 4, then this series goes back to Cleveland 3-1 the other way.  Even Game 3 was a winnable one for the Cavs.  The Magic only shot 42% from the floor and 35% outside the arc.  The problem the Cavs had is that they blew it even worse: 37% from the floor and a pathetic 19% from 3.  There is no excuse for Mo Williams shooting 32% in this series (He was a 47% shooter in the regular season; if he gets to those numbers, bingo, Cavs win).

When all is said and done, this series will go down as yet another epic Cleveland choke.  It's a series they had the ability to win several times over and just failed to execute over and over and over and over again.

[D]

Oh please, Howard didn't tackle Delonte

How bout the foul on howard in game 4 on that 3pointer by Lebron?

how about The foul on Pietrus with .5 left when Lebron tripped over his own feet and elbowed Pietrus?

how bout the horrible tech on Howard?

how about Varejao pretty much tackling Howard out of bounds on that lob?

[D]

Houston had the best roster? They had a fat Barkley way past his prime and an aging Olajuwon

hardly a great roster. Sure on paper 5 years before it would've been great.


What did Jordan win without Pippen?

Pippen was a GREAT all around basketball player.

[D]

Cleveland just have a shit gameplan

reminds me of when SA played Houston back in 94 when they had the best record or even Dallas in the finals against Miami when they kept doubling an old,slow fat Shaq and letting Wade run wild.

SA were so insistent on Doubling Olajuwon that they made a star out of Robert Horry, when they single covered Olajuwon and let him get his 30, they won each game.


Cle need to make Howard score 40 a game. I'd single cover him and dare him to beat me. Get him in foul trouble and don't let Lewis,Turk,Lee and Alston have wide open shots.

They'd beat Orlando IMO if they did this.