The 2008/2009 NBA season thread

[pilferk]

Top 10 right now

1.Lebron James
1A Kobe Bryant
3. Dwyane Wade
4.Dirk Nowitzki
5. Chris Paul
6.Deron Williams
7.Carmelo Anthony
8.Yao Ming
9.Brandon Roy
10.Paul Pierce

That would be my list

Is Garnett not there because he's hurt?

And if we're talking about RIGHT now (as in, this second in the playoffs), you have to give Rondo at least an honorable mention.  The guys averaging a triple double in that series.  And if the Celts have any hope of SEEING the cavs in the ECF, he's going to have to continue that run.

[D]

Its not just for the playoffs but on the season plus the playoffs as a whole.
Yeah, Garnett missed way too many games to make it on there.
I also try to stay away from the career achievement lists. Like Tim Duncan automatically makes people's list based on what he has done, but this season, Im not sure he was a top 10 guy.

Parker should be somewhere also but who do u take off the list?

top 10's are hard because u can do a top 15 and interchange so many parts.


Rondo is doing great against the Bulls, but u have to wonder how much of that is due to Chicago trying to stop Allen and Pierce.

assists are an overrated stat in basketball anyway. I mean if he throws a routine pass to Pierce and he hits a 20 footer. He gets an assist, but really I don't think that should be an assist. An assist should be a dunk or layup pass.

throwing a pass to a guy and he hitting a long jumper really offers no assistance.

[Bodhi]

assists are an overrated stat in basketball anyway. I mean if he throws a routine pass to Pierce and he hits a 20 footer. He gets an assist, but really I don't think that should be an assist. An assist should be a dunk or layup pass.

throwing a pass to a guy and he hitting a long jumper really offers no assistance.

As a follower of the Chuch of Stockton for the last 20 years I dont really know where to begin with this ludicrous statement...So you are saying that a point guard driving to the basket and kicking it back out to a wide open shooting guard who is only open because of the point guards drive to the basket should not count as an assist because it was not a dunk or a lay up?  If anything the assist is the most UNDER RATED stat in basketball, and that is why the quality of the NBA today blows compared to the 80's and 90's...

[D]

no no

IF the PG sets up an easy shot, then yeah that is an assist

Passing the ball to Paul Pierce and he hitting a 23 footer over his man is not an assist.

Stockton also helped make Karl Malone one of the 3 or 4 best PF of all time. His pick and roll passing was outstanding

Stockton earned most of his assists by making players way better.

I am not sure Rondo really does that.

Passing the ball to a jump shooter and having that person knock down a contested jumper isn't an assist in my book.

[faldor]

I think you should watch Rondo a little closer.  He does exactly that.  He's constantly driving to the hoop and kicking the ball out.  He's known to have an average to below average jumper so he needs to drive to the hoop to be effective.  Otherwise his defender sags off him.  Granted he'll get a few assists where he passes on the perimeter and a long J is hit, but that goes for every PG in the history of the game.

Rondo is playing as good as anyone in the NBA RIGHT NOW!  There, I said it.  He's averaging a triple double, granted every game in the series seems to go at least double OT, but still.  You can't argue with a PG averaging 24.2/10.2/10.2.  Now it might be as simple as an advatageous matchup for Rondo mixed in with some bad defense by the Bulls.  Whatever it is, he is playing out of this world this series.  And what a series it has been.  Aside from the game 3 blowout, every game has gone down to the wire.  Every game has been an "instant classic" as far as ESPN is concerned.  It's been a pleasure to watch.

[D]

I think you should watch Rondo a little closer.  He does exactly that.  He's constantly driving to the hoop and kicking the ball out.  He's known to have an average to below average jumper so he needs to drive to the hoop to be effective.  Otherwise his defender sags off him.  Granted he'll get a few assists where he passes on the perimeter and a long J is hit, but that goes for every PG in the history of the game.

Rondo is playing as good as anyone in the NBA RIGHT NOW!  There, I said it.  He's averaging a triple double, granted every game in the series seems to go at least double OT, but still.  You can't argue with a PG averaging 24.2/10.2/10.2.  Now it might be as simple as an advatageous matchup for Rondo mixed in with some bad defense by the Bulls.  Whatever it is, he is playing out of this world this series.  And what a series it has been.  Aside from the game 3 blowout, every game has gone down to the wire.  Every game has been an "instant classic" as far as ESPN is concerned.  It's been a pleasure to watch.

Yeah but he isn't a Chris Paul though. If Rondo had to be THE MAN he wouldn't be as good. Teams are so keen on stopping Allen and Pierce, that he gets single covered and no one really makes him the top target.

[faldor]

He's doing a pretty good Chris Paul impersonation this series averaging over 24 PPG.  Granted he has some weapons at his disposal but the Bulls didn't double team Pierce for his crucial hoops in game 5 and Allen fouled out, yet Rondo was still doing his thing.  I'm not saying he's all of a sudden become an elite PG, but he's certainly playing like it right now.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I think you should watch Rondo a little closer. 

NO!  I'm against violence on TV!

[Bodhi]

Stockton also helped make Karl Malone one of the 3 or 4 best PF of all time. His pick and roll passing was outstanding

Karl Malone IS the best power forward of all time...re-defined the position...and did it consistently for 19 years...

[crow316]

Karl Malone IS the best power forward of all time...re-defined the position...and did it consistently for 19 years...

Agrees,  and hates Malone

[D]

I think Tim Duncan would have something to say about that.

Duncan>Malone

[Bodhi]

I think Tim Duncan would have something to say about that.

Duncan>Malone

I disagree..Duncan lost both head to head matchups with Karl Malone in the playoffs, and one of them was that Laker series when Karl was over 40!    Malones stats are all better than Duncans not to mention his longevity,he was winning MVP's after being in the league for over 12 years, Duncan is already broken down and done and he has been in the NBA for 10...Karl Malone played against MUCH MUCH better players in a way more competitive era, Duncan has 4 titles yes, but they were all won against cream puffs compared to Jordans Bulls who denied Malone twice..So im not that impressed with his 4 titles, one was in a half season against an injury depleted 8th seed Knicks, one was against a Cavaliers team which is arguably the worst team to make the NBA finals in NBA history, another was against a garbage Nets team who they had to rally from 19 down to beat in Game 6, whos second option was Kenyon Martin!!! And there is that Detroit team they beat, the only good team, and it still took 7.  Malones Jazz teams from the late 90's would have bounced Detroit out in 5..Duncan played in the weakest era in NBA history and still doesnt have the stat line Malone does...and he is better?

Duncan is Top 5, but not the best..Malone and Barkley are both better...

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I've been thinking about what you said earlier, and I have come to a conclusion.

I can't even name a "power forward" until Malone.  You had a center, some tall dudes not as tall as the center, and then you had your small guys.

[crow316]

I know Duncan likes to call himself a power forward, but he is a center. He posts up like a center.  He regularly guards opponents centers, and is guarded by centers.  But if you want to call him a forward, I still put him slightly behind Malone. 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

He does have an outside shot though.

[D]

Come on now, the west has never been as tough top to bottom as in the Duncan era. this is an era where winning 50 games barely gets u in the playoffs.

People love talking about the older days of the NBA but it isn't like the NBA sucks now. Duncan has also won his first couple of titles with no player u would consider barely top 50 at the time.

That to me is more impressive than Kobe and Shaq and those LA teams.

Duncan is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better defensively than Malone, it isn't even a question. People judge players too much offensively. All around, overall, Duncan is better. Malone couldn't play defense or rebound that well.

U want to talk about a depleted Western Conference. When Malone and Stockton lost to the Bulls in 97-98, who was good in the west? Hakeem was on his last legs, Robinson was pre Duncan, Lakers weren't any good. Sac were decent and Portland were getting ready to gear up for their run, but really, there wasn't a shit load of comp in the west when they went.

[Bodhi]

Come on now, the west has never been as tough top to bottom as in the Duncan era. this is an era where winning 50 games barely gets u in the playoffs.

People love talking about the older days of the NBA but it isn't like the NBA sucks now. Duncan has also won his first couple of titles with no player u would consider barely top 50 at the time.


Duncan is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better defensively than Malone, it isn't even a question. People judge players too much offensively. All around, overall, Duncan is better. Malone couldn't play defense or rebound that well.

actually its funny you said that, because David Robinson was on those Spurs teams and he in fact was is on the NBA all time greatest 50 players list...And you are saying Malone wasnt a good defender or rebounder? You have seen Karl Malone play right? 

As far as the Jazz having an easier path the NBA finals than the Spurs that is completely laughable..in 1998 they had to go through hall of famers in every round of the playoffs..3 of them in the first round against the Rockets, Olajuwon, Barkley, Drexler, David Robinson in the semi-finals with Tim Duncan(grant it still a baby at this time), then Shaq and a young Kobe in the conference finals,  THEN on to play Jordan, Pippen and the greatest team to ever play the game the late 90's Bulls....you are right, what a breeze...

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Maybe he didn't have a TV in the 90's.

[D]

Not saying Malone sucked but he isn't better than Tim Duncan.

Duncan's been all defense like 10 times or something. Malone wasn't a great defender.

Like i said, in 96-97 Utah beat an aging over the hill Houston team, Lakers weren't very good as Kobe wasn't quite Kobe then

David Robinson missed most of the 97 season with an injury

Duncan has 4 rings Malone 0

Duncan is a better defensive player and has better intangibles.

Utah would've had a title if Malone didn't choke FT's and then get the ball stolen from behind by MJ in game 6

[Axl4Prez2004]

^ D's right.  Duncan>Malone.  Both are probably 1 and 2 in NBA history...no disrespect to The Mailman.