Blogger arrested, accused of posting 9 unreleased Guns N' Roses songs

[freddiebrph]

Songs leak on the internet on a daily bases, whole albums have been known to leak. Its hardly the end of the world.  

I hear that. Some people are acting like this is personally having an effect on them?  So a few songs leaked from an album, big deal! Is there ayone on this board that is not going to buy the album if he ever decides to release it? NO! And I think the headline is a little misleading, 9 songs?  More like 3. Those other six have been available for years now, and lets be honest, who REALLY doesnt have at least 2 versions of each already?

[faldor]

as a recording artist you have a different perspective.   Its all fun to get shit for free until its your shit.  Then it sucks.

It should be illegal to whine about that if one is a recording artists of behemoth caliber though.
Kids who will never earn as much money as you have burned on drugs steal your album, forcing you to settle with only ONE huge  Malibu Mansion and buy only one new sports car only every 2nd month? Boo fucking hoo.
It takes a twisted set of morals or dangerous fanaticism  to feel any  sympathy for the " victim" in most of these cases.
Different game for struggling artists of course.

Ofc the event at hand is a different case since  we are talking about thievery from artist  resulting in loss of something different than money.
CD being unreleased and all.

After about a decade of cock teasing regarding release of CD, my humble opinion is that entire GNR fan community deserves the  full moral right to download every single fucking leak out there if they wish. Those who disagree..well they prolly don't download the leaks. (or proceed to earn a massive amount of hypocrisy points)
It sure is fortunate that in the end of the day, it doesnt boil down to Jesusing all over the place about how terrible all this leaking stuff  is, or isn't. Instead, it's all about what you choose to do.
Freedom of choise is amazing thing!

dude.... you're a badass! i agree 100%

this board and fuck.... everyone has d/l or burned a cd, or had a friend give them a burned cd... fucking hyprocrites.

I just can't believe some of you.  GNR/Axl owe us nothing.  We're owed free music since we've waited so long?  Sure that'd be nice, but where in God's handbook does it say that so called fans (I really question that with some of you) deserve to hear an artists music before that artist is ready to release it?  If you're sick of the wait, then what are you still doing here?  Leave already, go do something productive, you're obviously not enjoying yourselves here.

And again, they're NOT going after people who downloaded the leaks, hence Axl's "downloading motherfuckers" joke a few years back.  Would they like to stop that, well sure, but that's not the point of this.  This isn't Metallica vs. Napster.  Some of you have to come to grips with that.  The issue here is making a full albums worth of material available to the public way before a release date is even announced.  This is copyrighted, unreleased material, that someone who used to work for the record label posted on his website.  Not sure why it's so hard to see what's wrong with that.  

I once again bring up Kid Rock's view on the subject (obviously joking).  This is aimed at those of you saying, "the artists are already rich, what's the big deal?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpCADfZD-eg

[faldor]

Songs leak on the internet on a daily bases, whole albums have been known to leak. Its hardly the end of the world.  

I hear that. Some people are acting like this is personally having an effect on them?  So a few songs leaked from an album, big deal! Is there ayone on this board that is not going to buy the album if he ever decides to release it? NO! And I think the headline is a little misleading, 9 songs?  More like 3. Those other six have been available for years now, and lets be honest, who REALLY doesnt have at least 2 versions of each already?

I posted this a couple pages back, but since you brought it up.  It's not 3 songs, it's 9.  It really doesn't matter that Rhiad was played in 2001 or "I.R.S" leaked in 2003, or the others leaked in 2006, NINE songs were streamed on a website for thousands of people to listen to.  NINE songs is almost an entire album, so much so that Time magazine and other reputable major media outlets reviewed the NINE songs as the actual ALBUM.  And the nine songs may not be in their final form, so it's unfair to review demos unless that's clearly stated.  So it really doesn't matter that six of the songs were heard before.  The guy used to work at Universal and he freely and openly publicized his website through this stunt.  He got his 15 minutes of fame and now he's paying for it.

[jarmo]

When you steal something, it implies you took some of financial value from a person or company.  If you illegally download a song, you're not necessarily robbing any financial value from a company.  If you never had any intention of buying that song...the company isn't out any money.  

Let's say that instead having to pay for nine songs in order to hear them, you just download them.

Is your reasoning still valid?



/jarmo

He has a certain point, in the past people recorded songs from the radio on tape, without buying the singles....

That's correct. The difference is that the radio is often not a world wide thing. So if a station in Nebraska plays something, somebody in Japan might not hear it.

Also, in most cases the artist has chosen to let the radio station play it.

And also, in those cases when it's officially released to radio, the artist gets paid when it's played on the radio.


None of this is true when we're talking about an illegal leak that can be downloaded for free.

So a few songs leaked from an album, big deal! Is there ayone on this board that is not going to buy the album if he ever decides to release it? NO! And I think the headline is a little misleading, 9 songs?  More like 3. Those other six have been available for years now

Not everybody is that self centered.

Did you ever think that the fact that having those songs leaked meant that a lot of people got to hear the album before they were supposed to and for free? They got to form an opinion on the album that's not even out yet.

We're not talking about any album by some artist you couldn't care less about. This is the album you've been "waiting" for.


Why do you have to defend the guy?

He uploaded those nine songs. None of them were his.

So it really doesn't matter if the band had played all of them live previously or if somebody else had leaked some of them.






/jarmo

[Jim Bob]

as a recording artist you have a different perspective.   Its all fun to get shit for free until its your shit.  Then it sucks.

It should be illegal to whine about that if one is a recording artists of behemoth caliber though.
Kids who will never earn as much money as you have burned on drugs steal your album, forcing you to settle with only ONE huge  Malibu Mansion and buy only one new sports car only every 2nd month? Boo fucking hoo.
It takes a twisted set of morals or dangerous fanaticism  to feel any  sympathy for the " victim" in most of these cases.
Different game for struggling artists of course.

Ofc the event at hand is a different case since  we are talking about thievery from artist  resulting in loss of something different than money.
CD being unreleased and all.

After about a decade of cock teasing regarding release of CD, my humble opinion is that entire GNR fan community deserves the  full moral right to download every single fucking leak out there if they wish. Those who disagree..well they prolly don't download the leaks. (or proceed to earn a massive amount of hypocrisy points)
It sure is fortunate that in the end of the day, it doesnt boil down to Jesusing all over the place about how terrible all this leaking stuff  is, or isn't. Instead, it's all about what you choose to do.
Freedom of choise is amazing thing!

you aren't owed a damn thing. you aren't entitled to anything for free.   just because its easy doesn't make it right.    its morally wrong to download music, and while I did it when I was younger, I don't now.   I buy anything I want, I'm not some cheap fuck who thinks just because its easy I can get what ever I want.   It doesn't matter how rich someone is, these guys are living the American dream and can get as rich as they want and still have every right to not have their art STOLEN.  you are a theif.

[freddiebrph]

When you steal something, it implies you took some of financial value from a person or company.  If you illegally download a song, you're not necessarily robbing any financial value from a company.  If you never had any intention of buying that song...the company isn't out any money.  

Let's say that instead having to pay for nine songs in order to hear them, you just download them.

Is your reasoning still valid?



/jarmo

He has a certain point, in the past people recorded songs from the radio on tape, without buying the singles....

That's correct. The difference is that the radio is often not a world wide thing. So if a station in Nebraska plays something, somebody in Japan might not hear it.

Also, in most cases the artist has chosen to let the radio station play it.

And also, in those cases when it's officially released to radio, the artist gets paid when it's played on the radio.


None of this is true when we're talking about an illegal leak that can be downloaded for free.

So a few songs leaked from an album, big deal! Is there ayone on this board that is not going to buy the album if he ever decides to release it? NO! And I think the headline is a little misleading, 9 songs?  More like 3. Those other six have been available for years now

Not everybody is that self centered.

Did you ever think that the fact that having those songs leaked meant that a lot of people got to hear the album before they were supposed to and for free? They got to form an opinion on the album that's not even out yet.

We're not talking about any album by some artist you couldn't care less about. This is the album you've been "waiting" for.


Why do you have to defend the guy?

He uploaded those nine songs. None of them were his.

So it really doesn't matter if the band had played all of them live previously or if somebody else had leaked some of them.






/jarmo

I guess I am looking at it through my eyes only. I am a music lover, hearing a few demos is not going to stop me from buying this album. It just seems kind of odd that songs leak every day from albums, and those albums actually come out. I am not defending him, BUT I still dont see the difference in what he did compared to the other 10 times IRS, MADDY, CD, TWAT, BLUES or BETTER were leaked, hosted, streamed whatever. Is it because he was kind of bragging or advertising it? If this stuff is "harming" the artist and record co. so much, than why does it keep happening? Napster was witch hunted because big name artists wanted it down. Then, 20 more web sites start up all doing the same thing and are still running today? Trust me, when there is a FINISHED album, I DO NOT WANT IT TO LEAK, I want the thrill of going to the store, buying it and listening to it the way it was meant to be heard.

[norway]

I think it's about to the extent he shared these leaks, that way. Not that all uploaders should "rot in hell", thats a bit too much

At one point, the company have to react. GunsN'Roses reaction to the company's reaction is sensible.

[bodine]

I guess I'd feel more sorry for the guy if he wasn't such an idiot as to post them on his own web site.  He had a great time soaking in all the attention and props he got from fans.  Now he's getting more attention than he bargained for - If you want it you're gonna bleed, but that's the price you pay!!!

[Albert S Miller]

they chose to interview him because most people still think of him as the guns n roses guitar player. Slash could do many things in his life, but he'll always be Gn'rs Guitar player, more than the guys that are actually in Gn'r.

The outside world pays no attention to line up changes.

But he could agree with the Federal investigation and the charges, but to say the guy should rot in Jail strikes me a little odd, specially coming from a guy who's a cleptomaniac and not so long ago stole a guitar (3,000 $) from the hard rock cafe, wich he latter gave back, but still he has 100 guitars, why would he need to get another one?

the awnser is he has a criminal mind and he admits that in his own book.

so i find it funny for a criminal to condemn a normal person who acted mostlly outta of ignorance and disregard to Gn'rs Intelectual property.

and i still have my doubts whether or not slash said that. i just can't imagine him being that harsh on the matter. it's not like he's getting any cut at the cd, and VR's last cd didn't leak, but it still didn't sell shit. so i dunno what's his beef, it's not like he's ever been affected by this.

I think he(Slash) said at one time something like he couldn't wait to hear the album, cuz in his mind it needed to be so good, as he supposedly felt it had something to do with the demise of GNR, I think I read something to that nature before somewhere, but don't quote me, I can't back it up. In regards to the guitar stealing not so long ago, by returning the guitar tells me he at least has a conscience now, and It must be due to the fact he now has money, the thrill was probally not the same. I have noticed Slash is all positive speaking as of late in regards to old band, I think he may be thru being bitter about the past, regardless of old feelings, Axl and Slash r still in the same business, they still share common ground that way, even as artists who may not see eye to eye, the affects would have the same result regardless of what band(s) r involved. Loss of money at time of release.  It spoils the reward before it's time.  GNR didn't owe anybody a taste of their works, in fact they don't owe any of us anything.  If anything we the fans owe them just for being one of the worlds greatest bands, to have brought even what they have to us in the past, no matter what the internals were, I myself couldn't be more greatful for GNR, they have been such a huge part of me for the last 20 years.

[jarmo]

I am not defending him, BUT I still dont see the difference in what he did compared to the other 10 times IRS, MADDY, CD, TWAT, BLUES or BETTER were leaked, hosted, streamed whatever. Is it because he was kind of bragging or advertising it?

There are some differences.

For one, it was the biggest number of songs made available at once. For free.

Secondly, he posted them on his site.

If this stuff is "harming" the artist and record co. so much, than why does it keep happening?

As far as I know, this is the first time the FBI has done something like this.

We'll have to see what kind of an effect it has.




/jarmo

[cyllan]

90% OF GNR'S True fans (the ones that have stuck by gnr in times of silence/no word/no tour )
IS BECAUSE we have had access to the leaks, we have downloaded them/heard them
in order to keep us interested in the band we love,and because of these leaks, the gnr fanbase has had no choice but to grow and expand into a great community,
whether anyone chooses to accept this or not, its up to you, but just imagine the past 5 years without any leaks...
how hard would the wait of been then?
How many fans would have waited without knowing such great material exists?
These leaks provide the fans with hope, and though I do not encourage leaks,
it has benefited gnr in 1 way
it has gave them the support of the fans by showing the band encouragement  in standing behind them year in, year out...

I can't believe that you're justifying the theft in this way.  So, according to your reasoning, it's practically impossible to remain supportive of an artist unless you have regular access to the material they're working on.  Have I got that correct?  Because that seems to me to be essentially what you're saying.  How the hell do you think we managed before the internet?!  And I'm not just referring to GNR but artists who were around long before the internet, with its constant drip-flow of information, and yet still managed to build and maintain a loyal fanbase.

Whether this need for reassurance is an age thing or not, I'm not too sure.  Anyway, I wouldn't want to tar all those who grew up in the internet age with the same brush.  All I can say is that I've loved GNR since the late eighties and, let me tell you, the wait between AFD and UYI may not have been as long as the wait for CD, but the silence surrounding its progress was a good deal more deafening.  But, you got on with your life, enjoyed the music you already had from the band, and looked forward to hearing good things from them in the future.

There have never been any guarantees with a band like Guns - hell, in the early days you couldn't even be sure that the band members would all be alive from one month to the next.  But what you did know, and still do, is that whatever the wait, it would be worth it - whether for an album or live show.  That, and that GN'R do things their own way and in their own time.  And I suppose my rather lengthy point here is that, this is the way it's always been and I get rather sick of the constant bleating from people who can't accept the way Axl works and seem to think that if they complain long enough and loud enough, that he'll change to suit them.

As for your conclusion that this thief has actually acted in a way that would prove beneficial to the band.  Well, words almost fail me as to the arrogance of your statement.

Authors also suffer from theft of their work and the comment below by fiction writer, Terry Pratchett, encapsulates what I believe to be the underlying problem with music downloads, i.e. the intangibility of a music file, rather than the physical presence of a CD.

"People do not understand the value of written work as ?property? ? ie what harm are they doing? The internet has encouraged, maybe passively, the thought that it?s not really stealing since the work has not been ?removed? entirely. This is about trying to deal with a digital age using analogue laws."

On a wider note, I'm shocked, although not surprised, that some people posting on this board appear willing to condone the actions of the individual who was arrested.  However, I am astounded as to the moral reasoning behind their comments and to hear such things coming from people who I imagine consider themselves to be Guns fans, just beggars belief.

[faldor]

90% OF GNR'S True fans (the ones that have stuck by gnr in times of silence/no word/no tour )
IS BECAUSE we have had access to the leaks, we have downloaded them/heard them
in order to keep us interested in the band we love,and because of these leaks, the gnr fanbase has had no choice but to grow and expand into a great community,
whether anyone chooses to accept this or not, its up to you, but just imagine the past 5 years without any leaks...
how hard would the wait of been then?
How many fans would have waited without knowing such great material exists?
These leaks provide the fans with hope, and though I do not encourage leaks,
it has benefited gnr in 1 way
it has gave them the support of the fans by showing the band encouragement  in standing behind them year in, year out...

I can't believe that you're justifying the theft in this way.  So, according to your reasoning, it's practically impossible to remain supportive of an artist unless you have regular access to the material they're working on.  Have I got that correct?  Because that seems to me to be essentially what you're saying.  How the hell do you think we managed before the internet?!  And I'm not just referring to GNR but artists who were around long before the internet, with its constant drip-flow of information, and yet still managed to build and maintain a loyal fanbase.

Whether this need for reassurance is an age thing or not, I'm not too sure.  Anyway, I wouldn't want to tar all those who grew up in the internet age with the same brush.  All I can say is that I've loved GNR since the late eighties and, let me tell you, the wait between AFD and UYI may not have been as long as the wait for CD, but the silence surrounding its progress was a good deal more deafening.  But, you got on with your life, enjoyed the music you already had from the band, and looked forward to hearing good things from them in the future.

There have never been any guarantees with a band like Guns - hell, in the early days you couldn't even be sure that the band members would all be alive from one month to the next.  But what you did know, and still do, is that whatever the wait, it would be worth it - whether for an album or live show.  That, and that GN'R do things their own way and in their own time.  And I suppose my rather lengthy point here is that, this is the way it's always been and I get rather sick of the constant bleating from people who can't accept the way Axl works and seem to think that if they complain long enough and loud enough, that he'll change to suit them.

As for your conclusion that this thief has actually acted in a way that would prove beneficial to the band.  Well, words almost fail me as to the arrogance of your statement.

Authors also suffer from theft of their work and the comment below by fiction writer, Terry Pratchett, encapsulates what I believe to be the underlying problem with music downloads, i.e. the intangibility of a music file, rather than the physical presence of a CD.

"People do not understand the value of written work as ?property? ? ie what harm are they doing? The internet has encouraged, maybe passively, the thought that it?s not really stealing since the work has not been ?removed? entirely. This is about trying to deal with a digital age using analogue laws."

On a wider note, I'm shocked, although not surprised, that some people posting on this board appear willing to condone the actions of the individual who was arrested.  However, I am astounded as to the moral reasoning behind their comments and to hear such things coming from people who I imagine consider themselves to be Guns fans, just beggars belief.

Good post.  I'm astonished by some of the reactions myself.  Then again, I guess I shouldn't be.  I've been around here long enough.  I need some bread, I'm all out.  I think I'm gonna go steal some from a store since apparently people seem to think that's okay.

[jarmo]

90% OF GNR'S True fans (the ones that have stuck by gnr in times of silence/no word/no tour )
IS BECAUSE we have had access to the leaks, we have downloaded them/heard them in order to keep us interested in the band we love,

Silence, no word, no tour?

Some of us lived through the 90s. Before the Internet was widely available.

When your only sources of information were newspapers, music magazines (that often had week old news) or MTV.

How do you think we managed?


I guess the main difference is that some of us don't need to be reassured like cyllan pointed out.

We know, without that reassurance, that the end result is worth the so called wait and that things happen when they're supposed to.



Or maybe it's just because today everybody should get everything when they want it. Tomorrow isn't good enough, it should've happened yesterday!




/jarmo

[DeN]

"I hope he rots in jail," said Slash, the former Guns N' Roses lead guitarist.
"It's going to affect the sales of the record, and it's not fair. The Internet is what it is,
and you have to deal with it accordingly, but I think if someone goes and steals something, it's theft."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-music29-2008aug29,0,729953.story

at least Axl & Slash are agree about this one

[jarmo]

"I think if someone goes and steals something, it's theft."

Words of wisdom from Slash.




/jarmo

[Death Cube K]

How do you think we managed?

GNR got off the road in 93. Slash quit in 96. I personally got the net in 97. I managed quite well thank you.

[Jim Bob]

"I think if someone goes and steals something, it's theft."

Words of wisdom from Slash.




/jarmo

while he is right, it could just be ass kissing.    coming from someone whose bragged about all the stealing he's done.

[Regibold]

"I think if someone goes and steals something, it's theft."

Words of wisdom from Slash.




/jarmo

while he is right, it could just be ass kissing.    coming from someone whose bragged about all the stealing he's done.

Slash stealing? Ya know V.R.'s Fall To Pieces does kinda sound like GNR's Yesterdays don't it. 

[The Prez]

Did you ever think that the fact that having those songs leaked meant that a lot of people got to hear the album before they were supposed to and for free? They got to form an opinion on the album that's not even out yet.


/jarmo

That's ofcourse also a positive thing for the people who do not like the songs/album: they will not waste their money with buying it! 

[pilferk]

Looks like GNR now sees it like I do.  Go after the original source.  Kevin will walk.  I am now happy.

Kevin will not walk, the RIAA will see to that. He is going to get some hefty fines from this.

The RIAA gets no say.  It's a federal, CRIMINAL case.

The RIAA's lawyers have zero to do with it.