Blogger arrested, accused of posting 9 unreleased Guns N' Roses songs

[GNR4L]

Nobody seems to realize that leaks posted on the internet are stealing from Axl !! now why do we love Guns N' Roses ?? cause of Axl Rose (also Robin Finck) !! why would we not be mad as fans that this guy posted over half the albums material.  We wait 14 years for this I'd rather hear it from Axl offically not from some blogger.  I just don't get it.

[Smoking Guns]

I think I read dr pepper exec said they gotta give a can to BH as well in an article.

I find it funny to watch people standing up for this guy.

1) He broke the law.
2) He stole from, a lot of your's, favourite band.

He stole from your favourite band.


Boohoo, a lot of you have been waiting for the album a long time, but it's not yours.
Why the fuck should you, or a thief that runs a music blog, get to determine when you can listen to it?

Have you listen to those tracks and did you like them?

If the answer is "yes", the upper statement makes you a hypocrite in my eyes.

Say someone sneaks into your beautiful sister's room to take a pic of her dressing up. They uploads the pic and anyone can see her beautiful boobs. You check their site, see the subject is beautiful and are so furious.
are you a hypocrite?

Am I from Alabama?

Lordrazz, what the hell, Alabama... Sheesh, that goes on in Kentucky, West Viginia, maybe Mississippi... but not my Alabama...

[jarmo]

So this is like a message from the god of rock n' roll; "Jarmo, you got to make people believe, they have to take this side!" Everyone has a right to an opinion and you can't take it away.

Yeah, here's a simple concept for you: Start your own site, then you can decide how it should be run.

It's very simple.


You're a guest here. Adapt to the surroundings. Get over the fact that it's not up to you to run this place or decide what we should do.

I thought they taught you certain things in the military. Like "you can't always get your way, you have to adapt to the situation and deal with it".

Your posts don't offend me at all. I'm just amused here 'cause you're taking this so seriously and acting hysterically, even though the guy's already arrested and so on. I just wonder why you're so determined in this one, telling the facts over and over again.

Are you sitting next to me as I type this?

How the fuck do you know?

I'm actually laughing in disbelief.

Sorry if I offended you this time as it was not the plan, like I said before: "who's the sensitive one here?"

If you think your comments affect me, think again. Nothing that comes out of you is that original.

Now go play somewhere else since you have nothing to add to the discussion.





/jarmo

[The Prez]

Hey, shouldn't we, being GN'R fans,  be a little bit of anarchists??

That's the normal excuse that is often used to validate posting bullshit, stealing from the band and so on.

So GN'R is rock n' roll and have a "we do it our way" attitude.  Some people seem to interpret that as "it's ok to post bullshit about the band and steal their music".



/jarmo

Jarmo, do you really think the band gives a shit about the leaks? I personally don't.
It's the record company who earns millions of GN'Rs music. And, but that's again a personal opinion, I hate record company's: they only care about money, not about the artists and music. These kind of laws were made because of the record company's loosing money by the internet. And this guy, who leaked the songs is as guilty as everybody who visited his site to listen to the leaks.....(not me   - really)
I don't thinks it's the case with GN'R but nowadays, it's even the record company who is deciding what kind of music should be made and by which artist... and that's really really sad for the freedom of artists.

The guy didn't steal music from the band, but from the fucking record company. And the fact you say about telling bullshit about the band: that's your opinion but not necessarily true, and even more: what bullshit??

[jarmo]

Jarmo, do you really think the band gives a shit about the leaks? I personally don't.

YES!


It's their music, they should have the right to decide how and when we hear it.




/jarmo

[The Prez]

Jarmo, do you really think the band gives a shit about the leaks? I personally don't.

YES!


It's their music, they should have the right to decide how and when we hear it.




/jarmo

Nice discussion   
but I don't believe that, my opinion is that it's the record company who gives a shit.
They should have the right (meaning the band) when and how, but I honestly think it's not up to them...maybe, maybe in GN'R's case it is, because they are so famous and have something more to say to a record company than the average artists

[oldgunsfan]

from http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/08/guns-n-roses-le.html

The feds may have their hooks into him, but Guns 'N Roses leaker Kevin Cogill's real headache is still the band. Chances of him getting any jail time are slim, but Guns 'N Roses could bankrupt him -- if they want to.

"There's a specific law, the Family Entertainment and Copyright Act, that deals specifically with pre-release material -- the rationale being that (leaking this material) prevents the owner of the copyright from getting the first release," says entertainment lawyer Howard Rubin, a partner at Goetz & Fitzpatrick in New York. "The first release is always the one that's going to get the most profit for the person who owns the copyright. To take that first opportunity from someone is more serious, and is usually pursued criminally to try to prevent that (from happening again)."

Cogill could face both criminal charges from the federal government and a civil copyright infringement suit from the Guns 'N Roses camp. The criminal charges, which have already been filed, could cost Cogill $250,000 and up to three years in jail. Civil charges brought by Guns 'N Roses could prove more costly, even in the absence of any actual damage to the band. Statutory damages for releasing the material with intent or malice are up to $150,000 per song, for a total that could exceed $1.3 million.

Cogill could end up owing even if he shows that his leak of the songs actually helped the Guns 'N Roses' bottom line by generating press coverage for the band. The statutory damages do not take into account whether any actual damage was done -- only that the infringement was intentional or malicious, which Rubin says would be relatively easy for Guns 'N Roses' lawyers to prove.

So far, evidence points towards leniency, as far as the federal case goes. Especially important, according to Rubin, is the fact that the feds released Cogill on a signature bond, which means he didn't have to put up any money, but rather agreed to pay a $10,000 fine if he misses his preliminary hearing on September 17. If the feds were looking to prosecute Cogill to the maximum extent of the law, he said, Cogill's bail situation would have been more severe.

"In my opinion, and I'm assuming it's his first offense," says Rubin, "I wouldn't expect significant jail time, but I would expect a fine and some jail time. It's a felony, not a misdemeanor, and the federal courts have guidelines depending on how much profit was made, the seriousness of the crime and whether the person cooperated," adding, "He may end up getting probation; I would be shocked if he got anywhere near three years in prison."


Assuming the federal case goes as smoothly as Rubin expects, the next potential threat to Cogill comes in the form of a civil suit from Guns 'N Roses (right), with those potential $1.3 million or so in statutory damages. However, the band may not want to risk becoming the next Metallica.

"The band is in the position now where they can start a civil action, and they would be successful," says Rubin, "But how are their fans feeling about this? They'll have their own public relations issues as to whether they're going to start an action here."


The band will not benefit financially from the criminal suit, so if Axl and co. want compensation, it'll have to come from a civil suit -- regardless of any potential backlash. But Cogill, a 27-year-old Los Angeles web designer, most likely cannot pay the full extent of the damages. "What does this guy have in terms of assets?," he asked. "What can they collect?"   

In his initial post with a link to the .zip file, which he took down after receiving a cease and desist letter, Cogill said that one reason he leaked the tracks was that Guns 'N Roses had apparently hoarded them for so long.

"I always said that the more that Axl and Geffen jerked around trying to figure out how to release this finally finished album that we've all been waiting over 13 years for," he wrote, "the greater the chances would be that it would slip out of a pressing plant or office somewhere and wind up in the hands of some asshole with a blog. So... Hey, I told you so."

[Ulises]

Did you see that? 


?As a result of illegally sharing tracks from the unreleased Guns N' Roses album ?Chinese Democracy?, Dr Pepper is officially excluding blogger Kevin Cogil from our promotion that has promised to deliver every American a free can of soda if the album arrives any time in 2008. Like the rest of the world, Dr Pepper is anxiously awaiting new material from Axl, but a masterpiece like this should only be heard when fully complete, not as leaked, unfinished demos. It?s like drinking Dr Pepper before all 23 flavors are added, it?s just wrong. This decision means only three Americans will not receive a Dr Pepper - Kevin Cogil, Slash and Buckethead. Sorry, guys.?


 

[jarmo]

Nice discussion   
but I don't believe that, my opinion is that it's the record company who gives a shit.

Umm, let's just get one thing straight.

There's different levels of "giving a shit".

Sending a cease and desist letter to stop somebody from spreading illegal leaks is one thing.

Taking somebody to court for spreading illegal leaks is another thing.

In both cases, people did give a shit. But in the latter example, they cared a lot more.

Did you see that? 

Yes: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=52967.msg1096336#msg1096336



/jarmo

[Sober_times]

If guns n roses goes after this guy in a civil lawsuit I will lose a lot of respect for Axl and the band.

And that dr pepper statement is hilarious.  

[Jaakko]

Jarmo, do you really think the band gives a shit about the leaks? I personally don't.

YES!


It's their music, they should have the right to decide how and when we hear it.




/jarmo

Again, back to Illusion-era: Axl was pissed off of the various bootlegs. They played yet unreleased songs and people already knew the words. I bet GNR dont like this shit either !

Downloading motherfuckers, as some dude once said...

[LordRazZ]

Come on...those two sisters I had a few years back lied about where they were from?

I bet they weren't even sisters.

[The Prez]

Downloading motherfuckers, as some dude once said...

Right, but he said it with a smile 

[Jaakko]

Downloading motherfuckers, as some dude once said...

Right, but he said it with a smile 

That's true ! It didn't qualify as a rant 

[kaasupoltin]

I thought they taught you certain things in the military. Like "you can't always get your way, you have to adapt to the situation and deal with it".

Not really, the whole military system is a joke here these days.

Are you sitting next to me as I type this?

How the fuck do you know?

I'm actually laughing in disbelief.

It simply looks like your taking it too seriously. Not that I really care though, I'm wondering why you're still responding me if I only come up with "insane bullshit" and "un-original stuff"

Come on, the guy's arrested already! What are you really complaining about? I'm happy with it, he got what he deserved and I think this is just the beginning. If some people disagree with this point of view, I don't see any reason to attack them and to try to moralize them. I'm not talking about how this board should be run, I'm talking about the right to an opinion, which we all still have.

[The Prez]

Taking somebody to court for spreading illegal leaks is another thing.

I agree. But don't you think that would be a little bit over the top if they would do that? (even if it's the record company or GN'R themselves)
I can understand that they are angry: but does this guy deserves 3 years of jail and/or paying back millions? That's too hard too my feeling. Ofcourse, if he isn't a fan, and he likes for example Madonna: c'mon, sue the guy already!!  

No, what I think is, he should get a real warning or stuff like that so he will not make the same mistake again.

Another thing that just pops up in my mind: how the fuck did the guy even got those leaks in the first place? If they are so angry bout the leaks, then the responsibles of having the music (I assume that's the record company?) should do a better job in protecting it!!

[LeftToDecay]

I already feel sorry for the guy, kinda.
Like always in these type of cases I bet he gets slammed with stupidly large fine/payment that goes a long way ruining his life.

Was stpid what he did.
Too bad for him he was fame horny enough to actualy leak them under his own name, as opposed to just opting to go with one of the five million unanymous methods.

I bet someone starts a fund raiser for him:P

[jarmo]

Come on, the guy's arrested already! What are you really complaining about?

Complaining?

Just pointing out the absurdity of you clicking on this thread only to have a go at me.



So it's complaining because I'm trying to make some people understand that not all cases are the same? Or pointing out the facts and correcting wrong assumptions?

Why does it bother you? It seems highly personal. Do I come after you in threads pointing out how stupid your posts are?


One minute I'm a nazi for not allowing certain posts here. Now that I'm actually discussing stuff, it's not good either.

No, what I think is, he should get a real warning or stuff like that so he will not make the same mistake again.

If you read some of the articles about this, you would know that the warnings tactic has been used before.

It doesn't seem to stop people from leaking stuff.





/jarmo

[commissioner]

but concerning the demos that were leaked,I don't think there was anything wrong with that.

Isn't it up to the artists and/or record company to decide when people should hear the music? And how they should hear it?




/jarmo

AMEN JARMO


That is an artists right!  People are just  out of hand.

[makane]

Was anything new leaked, or just the "old" ones?