Blogger arrested, accused of posting 9 unreleased Guns N' Roses songs

[pilferk]

Pretty conclusive.  This is the difference regarding previous leaks, a cast iron paper trail.

Exactly.

And all the info on the trail was easily and readily available.

[pilferk]

Still think this guy gets what he deserves for trying to be E Famous.  So did he work at the label and steal it that way?

I'm still not sure how he got a hold of it.

Not saying he shouldn't have repercussions ,but this Fbi arrest is a tad fuckign extrem.

It's a federal law.  That means dealing with federal law enforcement...

[sandman]

there have been a number of comments that reference the metallica/napster situation in an attempt to link the two and say that this will hurt GnR's reputation. i just want to point out that...

1. Metallica is still, 7 or 8 years later, one of the biggest and most loved bands on the planet. They aren't exactly hurting from a popularity standpoint.

2. Any decrease in their die-hard fanbase has little to do with Napster. It has to do with them releasing subpar albums for the last 15 years!

3. This is VERY different from that situation.

[GETOFFAXLSBACK]

Stupid for being so obvious but not alone, lets hope people go after every person that made the track/s available for public consumption.

Piazza?
Trunk?

Funny i doubt they will be getting a visit any time soon

[pilferk]

Well I read alot about claims of "stealing" stealing something is different than this cleary, if I steal something its no longer there...

anyway I dont see where you said you havent downloaded anything, I would assume you have like the other 100% forum members, that in itself is a crime according to your logic.  My question is if its true it is a crime, are they going to charge everyone?  Or is this guy just a scapegoat.

Gunsguy

Within the first couple pages jarmo said:

1) He had never downloaded a leak

2) He'd never heard one of the leaks "in full"...just a snippet or two to make sure it was a GnR song.  By that, I'm assuming he means actual LEAKS and not live versions of leaked songs...either in bootleg format or at concerts. 

[pilferk]

Now that the record company is involved and the album is coming out, things are different and the record company has reasons not to be inactive.




/jarmo

Just to sort of elaborate:

The prior leaks...I think they all pretty much occurred BEFORE the material had been turned over to the label.  That means the labels involvement was likely close to nil...it wasn't yet their material to defend, it was GnR's.

NOW, we're all pretty certain that material HAS been turned over to the label, and is in some stage of being prepared for release.  NOW the material is, pretty much, at least co-owned by the label.  It's not JUST the bands creative work, it's the label's commercial product.

[pilferk]

I think the charges has to do with him breaking copyright laws.

If you read those documents, you'll see how they put the puzzle together.


/jarmo

Heh.....I think "puzzle" might be giving it too much credit.

He did everything but put a big sign over his house, and wear a big badge on his chest, saying "I'm the guy who leaked 9 unreleased GnR songs".

He didn't make much of an attempt to cover his tracks, he was pretty forthright with the FBI agent, and he signed a confession withing about 48 hours of first contact.

He completely cooperated.  The ONLY thing that's going to hurt him in any sort of plea deal is that signed confession...but that piece would likely make the judge a little more lenient at sentencing, so.....

Given the judge has already displayed he's going to be pretty lenient (suggested it be a summons case, set pretty low bail AND a signature bond)....it's looking like it will work out about as ok as any felony prosecution could for him.

[pilferk]

Correct. But the "band" on behalf of their legal team, started the preliminary injunctions with the cease and desist orders to Skewrl, as stated in the affadavit. Therefore, how is that the FBI Cyber Crime Squad is looking into this? You think someone dropped a dime and told them? Maybe the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover was over at Axl's house.

If the RIAA got involved, it was likely at the label's request, not the band's.

[pilferk]

10 grand...

thats quiet alot of mulah for 9 song demos...

then again, it is illegal

How much time could he do in jail if he doesn't pay the bail?

anyone guess?

Nah, 10 grand is pretty paltry for a felony arrest.

A 10 grand signature bond is, literally, nothing.

Basically, you sign your name and promise to pay 10k if you leave the district.  No up front money.  Typically a bail bond is going to require around a 10% (or more, depending on how much of a risk the bondsman thinks you are)  "up front".  With a signature bond, you don't even have to come up with that.

[pilferk]

if he doesn't make bail, he stays in jail until he appears in court.

With a signature bond, you can't "not make bail".  The only way you don't make bail is if you refuse to sign the promise to appear...which means you WANT to stay in jail.

[pilferk]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26429013/

It's made the main entertainment page on MSNBC.

[Scabbie]

Whilst its clear the guy did something wrong and stupid, I can't help but think there are others to blame here and for that I feel sorry if he is singled out. Unless of course he stole the tracks from the record company...

Anyway...really hope there is some more good positive news from the band soon...sick of hearing about people leaving, songs leaking, further delays etc etc

[GypsySoul]

Stupid for being so obvious but not alone, lets hope people go after every person that made the track/s available for public consumption.

Piazza?
Trunk?

Funny i doubt they will be getting a visit any time soon

Driving to work this morning, I heard one of the DJs (from a different station than trunk) say straight out that he (the DJ) got the leaks directly from this guy.  Named him straight out.  So I'm guessing that's where piazza/trunk got it from too and he'll probably 'fess up to it as part of his plea deal.

Whilst its clear the guy did something wrong and stupid, I can't help but think there are others to blame here and for that I feel sorry if he is singled out. Unless of course he stole the tracks from the record company...

I might be wrong about this but didn't this same guy leak some of the songs in different stages of completion?  like really early demos where it was really unclear whether or not they were actually GNR to the now infamous nine versions?  That, along with people saying he worked for the record comany, would make me think that he was somehow directly connected to stealing the tracks.

[jarmo]

Well I read alot about claims of "stealing" stealing something is different than this cleary, if I steal something its no longer there...

anyway I dont see where you said you havent downloaded anything, I would assume you have like the other 100% forum members, that in itself is a crime according to your logic.  My question is if its true it is a crime, are they going to charge everyone?  Or is this guy just a scapegoat.

Gunsguy

Within the first couple pages jarmo said:

1) He had never downloaded a leak

2) He'd never heard one of the leaks "in full"...just a snippet or two to make sure it was a GnR song.  By that, I'm assuming he means actual LEAKS and not live versions of leaked songs...either in bootleg format or at concerts. 

Before my post gets twisted around more with this "he said" stuff, here's my post: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=52967.msg1095820#msg1095820






/jarmo

[faldor]

Whilst its clear the guy did something wrong and stupid, I can't help but think there are others to blame here and for that I feel sorry if he is singled out. Unless of course he stole the tracks from the record company...

Anyway...really hope there is some more good positive news from the band soon...sick of hearing about people leaving, songs leaking, further delays etc etc

Man I just got through skimming the 16 pages.  I guess I can understand why people are upset with this situation but the guy did something wrong, he's not Above the Law (only Steven Segal is).  The guy worked at Universal so you're damn right there's a very good chance he stole the tracks from them.  You go try and steal something for a huge and powerful company and see how you do.  I know we all got to hear some great music because of the guy, but that doesn't change the fact that what he did was wrong to the enth degree.  And he so smuggly publicized the fact, obviously trying to capitalize on his 15 minutes of fame.  Let it continue.

[pilferk]

Before my post gets twisted around more with this "he said" stuff, here's my post: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=52967.msg1095820#msg1095820


/jarmo

Sorry...didn't mean to "twist" anything around.

I thought it was clear, considering the context, we were talking about THIS batch of leaks.

I should have said "one of these" leaks, I guess.

Again, my apologies.  I certainly wasn't trying to misrepresent what you said.....

[Albert S Miller]

ok, you can all say what you like, but no one here not even Jarmo can claim that they have not downloaded a leak or leaks from somewhere, which raises the question aren't we all to blame?

Jarmo?

Gunsguy

I can make that claim, read my earlier post!! 

[The Prez]

not all of us have the patience to wait 14 years to hear the new stuff

i think it's sad to arrest this guy. I'm aware that leaking songs is illegal, but does everybody know this? Maybe this guy isn't brightest person around or too young to understand...

Indirectly it's the fault of the GN'R camp / record company.

[Ali]

So i guess Eddie Trunk and Piazza will be next ones? 

The Eddie Trunk situation is not applicable at all.  This is why:

What Skwerl did was illegal under the 2005 Federal Entertainment and Copyright Act. Here is the specific relevant section of the act and this is why it's different than what Eddie Trunk did in 2003, although I'm sure some will still believe otherwise:

In general.--Any person who willfully infringes a
copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of
title 18, if the infringement was committed--

? by the distribution of a work being prepared
for commercial distribution, by making it available on a
computer network accessible to members of the public, if
such person knew or should have known that the work was
intended for commercial distribution.

There is nothing in the Act, and I read the whole thing, that Skwerl was in violation of that pertains to playing the songs on-air, so the Eddie Trunk comparison is null and void.

Ali

[FunkyMonkey]

From the Los Angeles Times...

For musicians, TV networks or movie studios, there is probably nothing worse than seeing their work available illegally online before it has even been released. The movie industry has put elaborate ...

... and largely effective security measures in place to make sure that doesn't happen.

And in recent years, pre-release pirates have faced the threat of prison time, not just fines, thanks to a new federal copyright law. People may not have worried about risking three years in prison for posting some songs that each retail for 99 cents, but they may want to start worrying now.

Cogill, who is appearing today in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles, is the first to be charged under the new federal statute in the West, said Kathy Leodler, director of investigations for the RIAA's Western region office in L.A. There have been others nationally, including two fans of singer Ryan Adams.

"The arrest of Kevin Cogill is great for the recording industry related to our online investigations. We are very pleased with the FBI's interest and the U.S. attorney's office's aggressiveness in pursuing this investigation," Leodler said. "We think we'll see more and more of these pre-release cases."

This only further proves that it was the RIAA who tipped off the FBI.  Thanks for posting.

Ali

From the Wall Street Journal:

Assistant U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the Recording Industry Association of America had alerted the Department of Justice to the case, and he planned to prosecute similar cases as they arose. ?We take this type of crime very seriously,? he said.