Blogger arrested, accused of posting 9 unreleased Guns N' Roses songs

[gnrbacik]

11 songs have leaked.  Who leaked the other 2??

[PENNY16161]

Jarmo-

I agree with a lot of your points, and understand posting 9 songs is VERY different than posting 1.  However, I don't see why time frame really makes a difference.

Back in 2003, I'm sure there were a ton of "Chinese Democracy starts now" threads, particularly following the tour, so, back then, people thought the album was ready for release.  So, the only reason that we're closer to a release date now than we were led to believe back then, is that it's been 5 years since then, and the album hasn't be put out, so it's impossible to be further away from a release.

To keep arguing that it's because he posted the tracks "when the label was getting ready to release the album" isn't really fair because we don't know that they are getting ready to release it.  It's just an assumption we all have (the same assumption we had back in March of 07).

And, understood that he posted these 9 songs on his own site, but 6 of them had leaked previously.  Six is a lot more than 1 also; shouldn't the leaker of the 6 be prosecuted just the same?  By not prosecuting earlier leakers, they sort of set a precedent that they wouldn't take legal action against these people.  Regardless of the number of songs, it's not really fair to single out one person who has done the same thing as many before him.

And before you give an analogy of stealing a candy bar to murder, that comparison is not the same.  You'd have to compare killing one person to killing 9.  Should the person who killed one person be given a lesser penalty?  I guess that's up to debate...

All of that said, I do appreciate your enthusiasm and passion for this topic - that you're the leader of this forum and get involved so deeply in the conversation is refreshing.  Thanks!

[russtcb]

I honestly can't help but be surprised and disappointed by this.

If these songs were finished and released we would all be happy to pay for them but we're not allowed to do that.

[jarmo]

I agree with a lot of your points, and understand posting 9 songs is VERY different than posting 1.  However, I don't see why time frame really makes a difference.

It seems to matter to the record company.

To keep arguing that it's because he posted the tracks "when the label was getting ready to release the album" isn't really fair because we don't know that they are getting ready to release it.  It's just an assumption we all have (the same assumption we had back in March of 07).

It's not fair?

Tell the judge.

That was in the original L.A Times article.

"is accused of posting the songs, which were being prepared for commercial release"

And before you give an analogy of stealing a candy bar to murder, that comparison is not the same.  

I didn't make that analogy myself.

I made ones with different levels of theft and manslaughter.

But not comparing those two to each other.





/jarmo

[FunkyMonkey]

The U.S.A. requested bail be set at $50,000. Skwerl?s court-appointed attorney thankfully called B.S. on that one and recommended his bail be $5,000 and that this case is the kind of case where the defendant should have been summoned to appear instead of being accosted by five F.B.I. agents at his home in a quiet neighborhood.

Interestingly, the Judge chimed in to add that he had actually recommended that it be a summons case and wasn?t sure why it went down as it did.

gunsguy

It looks like bail was set at $10,000 and regarding the summons case...it appears someone decided differently.

[Smoking Guns]

The U.S.A. requested bail be set at $50,000. Skwerl?s court-appointed attorney thankfully called B.S. on that one and recommended his bail be $5,000 and that this case is the kind of case where the defendant should have been summoned to appear instead of being accosted by five F.B.I. agents at his home in a quiet neighborhood.

Interestingly, the Judge chimed in to add that he had actually recommended that it be a summons case and wasn?t sure why it went down as it did.

gunsguy

It looks like bail was set at $10,000 and regarding the summons case...it appears someone decided differently.

Classic case of Grand Standing. 

This case will get thrown out, trust me.  More tax payers dollars wasted on stupid shit that would all be prevented if one thing happened.  RELEASE THE ALBUM.

[chineseblues]

I just read that . Has that info always been their?

Wonder if dude also violated some contract he may have had with them?

why is that the charges?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0827082gnr1.html

gunsguy

I think the charges has to do with him breaking copyright laws.

If you read those documents, you'll see how they put the puzzle together.





/jarmo

agreed actually he made it too easy for them, I dont agree with it, and good thing the judge already doesn't think they did the right thing, this case will be thrown out based on unlawfull arrest I think, any good lawyer would play on that well...

Unlawful arrest? Are you on crack man? The guy admitted to committing the crime, and he got arrested for it. How the fuck is that unlawful?

[snead hearn]

The 9 songs do not have formal copyright registration. Look on the US Copyright Page. www.copyright.gov.

The songs have not been published yet. Look on any of the performing rights societies, ASCAP, BMI or SESAC. None of them are listed.

Yes, the songs are obviously created and performed by GNR. And they are obviously on a fixed format (recorded onto a disc). Therefore the songs are copyrightable.

But, since the affadavit only states (13, part a, "....nine previously unreleased songs ("the songs") that were then being prepared for commercial distribution b the rock band Guns n' Roses......". It does not state or warrant the copyright status or the performance rights status of the songs, let alone the Chinese Democracy album.

Overall, I'm not advocating anyone to infringe copyrighted material. You play, you pay. And I do think Skwerl has some explaining to do and should answer for his actions. At the same time, for the band to start firing off FBI agents and stuff like this, they should at least have done some formal dilligence on their side.

[jarmo]

This case will get thrown out, trust me.  More tax payers dollars wasted on stupid shit that would all be prevented if one thing happened.  RELEASE THE ALBUM.

Many of you always keep saying that all albums leak.

Especially the ones that are going to be released soon.



Your solution don't do shit in this case.

Better luck next time.

At the same time, for the band to start firing off FBI agents and stuff like this, they should at least have done some formal dilligence on their side.

The band isn't the RIAA.




/jarmo

[Gunsguy]

I just read that . Has that info always been their?

Wonder if dude also violated some contract he may have had with them?

why is that the charges?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0827082gnr1.html

gunsguy

I think the charges has to do with him breaking copyright laws.

If you read those documents, you'll see how they put the puzzle together.





/jarmo

agreed actually he made it too easy for them, I dont agree with it, and good thing the judge already doesn't think they did the right thing, this case will be thrown out based on unlawfull arrest I think, any good lawyer would play on that well...

Unlawful arrest? Are you on crack man? The guy admitted to committing the crime, and he got arrested for it. How the fuck is that unlawful?

unlawful arrest, they arrested him differently than they should have, it was a summons case not a bunch of goons going to his door

Gunsguy

[russtcb]

I honestly don't believe for one second that anyone posting in this thread hasn't heard all these songs and more. For that reason I can't see why anyone can get on a high horse about it.

[Smoking Guns]

This case will get thrown out, trust me.  More tax payers dollars wasted on stupid shit that would all be prevented if one thing happened.  RELEASE THE ALBUM.

Many of you always keep saying that all albums leak.

Especially the ones that are going to be released soon.



Your solution don't do shit in this case.

Better luck next time.


/jarmo

Funny you say that. AC/DC has had a new album in the works for 7 years.  Not one fucking leak and the first single debuts tonight at midnight.  What is a leak Jarmo?  A leak only can happen when somebody close to the band or record company betray the band or record company.  Looks more and more like both the band and record company were betrayed.  That tells me a couple things in contrast to AC/DC.  AC/DC has less hands touching album.  They have better management.  They have more people they can trust.  Another debacle for GNR.  Releasing the album cures all this.  I am not blaming GNR, but its like having a nakid hot woman wonder the streets and one day she gets raped.  She put herself in position for something bad to happen.  The Record company and or GNR has been a bad position for a long time with all these "secret" cd's floating out there.  

[D]

I dont understand how people can compare this to Lars/Napster

With Lars/Napster, they were targeting thousands and thousands of fans. This is one Douche who wanted to try and be E Famous and grow his E cock 10 inches so he went around bragging and trying to act like some GNR Martyr Saint free Chinese Democracy.

I have no problem with leaks but I do have a huge problem with some delusional psycho trying to get some sort of infamy and fame................. Its like Tribute Bands, Fuckin parasites who have nothing to do with the music trying to gain something from it.

This guy wasn't just a fan who was trying to spread good will and cheer and positivity amongst the GNR community. He was a guy with an Agenda to try and grow a website or be E Respected and E Famous. to me that is pathetic.


I still want answers though on how the fuck the dude got em.

Cause these aren't MASTERED finsihed versions. Whoever gave this guy those songs is INSIDE the band cause u just don't come up with 9 unreleased Demos.

So the real bastard in all of this is whoever gave this guy the demos.

[MrMojoRa]

A summons just means that he would have received a notice in the mail advising of of the charges filed against him as opposed to the FBI physically arresting him and taking him directly to court.

A summons would not have made the charges against him any less serious.

It is NOT an unlawful arrest.  The FBI questioned him without arresting him prior to, or after, the questioning.  They did not even have to read him Miranda Warnings to question him.  He confessed and THEN the agent did additional legwork to build a case against prior to arresting him.

There is a victim in this case and the victim obviously wanted Kevin arrested for his actions.

[D]

This case will get thrown out, trust me.  More tax payers dollars wasted on stupid shit that would all be prevented if one thing happened.  RELEASE THE ALBUM.

Many of you always keep saying that all albums leak.

Especially the ones that are going to be released soon.



Your solution don't do shit in this case.

Better luck next time.


/jarmo

Funny you say that. AC/DC has had a new album in the works for 7 years.  Not one fucking leak and the first single debuts tonight at midnight.  What is a leak Jarmo?  A leak only can happen when somebody close to the band or record company betray the band or record company.  Looks more and more like both the band and record company were betrayed.  That tells me a couple things in contrast to AC/DC.  AC/DC has less hands touching album.  They have better management.  They have more people they can trust.  Another debacle for GNR.  Releasing the album cures all this.  I am not blaming GNR, but its like having a nakid hot woman wonder the streets and one day she gets raped.  She put herself in position for something bad to happen.  The Record company and or GNR has been a bad position for a long time with all these "secret" cd's floating out there.  

Dude that is probably the worst analogy I've ever heard.

A woman getting raped?  Really............ that wouldn't be her fault regardless of how long and how naked she walked the streets.

[Smoking Guns]

I dont understand how people can compare this to Lars/Napster

With Lars/Napster, they were targeting thousands and thousands of fans. This is one Douche who wanted to try and be E Famous and grow his E cock 10 inches so he went around bragging and trying to act like some GNR Martyr Saint free Chinese Democracy.

I have no problem with leaks but I do have a huge problem with some delusional psycho trying to get some sort of infamy and fame................. Its like Tribute Bands, Fuckin parasites who have nothing to do with the music trying to gain something from it.

This guy wasn't just a fan who was trying to spread good will and cheer and positivity amongst the GNR community. He was a guy with an Agenda to try and grow a website or be E Respected and E Famous. to me that is pathetic.


I still want answers though on how the fuck the dude got em.

Cause these aren't MASTERED finsihed versions. Whoever gave this guy those songs is INSIDE the band cause u just don't come up with 9 unreleased Demos.

So the real bastard in all of this is whoever gave this guy the demos.

What D is saying is that someone in GNR or the GNR management/family will get arrested for leaking the music to an outsider who then hosted on his site.  D, who is this enabler?  Finck or Bucket?  I know that is what you are getting at.  I don't think its them.  Just kidding D, I don't know what you are thinking.

[jarmo]

I honestly don't believe for one second that anyone posting in this thread hasn't heard all these songs and more. For that reason I can't see why anyone can get on a high horse about it.

Way to judge everybody based on your own actions.

Not everybody thinks like you.

Funny you say that. AC/DC has had a new album in the works for 7 years.  Not one fucking leak and the first single debuts tonight at midnight.   

GN'R isn't the only band in history that this has happened to.

It even happened to U2 in 1990/91!





/jarmo

[MrMojoRa]

Cause these aren't MASTERED finsihed versions. Whoever gave this guy those songs is INSIDE the band cause u just don't come up with 9 unreleased Demos.

Which is probably why the FBI arrested Kevin.  He's gonna have to help himself out and give up the source of the leaks.  It's an often used tactic in law enforcement.  Catch a little fish to get the big fish.

[Smoking Guns]

This case will get thrown out, trust me.  More tax payers dollars wasted on stupid shit that would all be prevented if one thing happened.  RELEASE THE ALBUM.

Many of you always keep saying that all albums leak.

Especially the ones that are going to be released soon.



Your solution don't do shit in this case.

Better luck next time.


/jarmo

Funny you say that. AC/DC has had a new album in the works for 7 years.  Not one fucking leak and the first single debuts tonight at midnight.  What is a leak Jarmo?  A leak only can happen when somebody close to the band or record company betray the band or record company.  Looks more and more like both the band and record company were betrayed.  That tells me a couple things in contrast to AC/DC.  AC/DC has less hands touching album.  They have better management.  They have more people they can trust.  Another debacle for GNR.  Releasing the album cures all this.  I am not blaming GNR, but its like having a nakid hot woman wonder the streets and one day she gets raped.  She put herself in position for something bad to happen.  The Record company and or GNR has been a bad position for a long time with all these "secret" cd's floating out there.  

Dude that is probably the worst analogy I've ever heard.

A woman getting raped?  Really............ that wouldn't be her fault regardless of how long and how naked she walked the streets.

Nope, but when you put it out there, you are asking to get fucked.  D, just like I said ITS NOT GNR'S FAULT, but someone took advantage.  They saw a window and went for it.  

[Smoking Guns]

I honestly don't believe for one second that anyone posting in this thread hasn't heard all these songs and more. For that reason I can't see why anyone can get on a high horse about it.

Way to judge everybody based on your own actions.

Not everybody thinks like you.

Funny you say that. AC/DC has had a new album in the works for 7 years.  Not one fucking leak and the first single debuts tonight at midnight.   

GN'R isn't the only band in history that this has happened to.

It even happened to U2 in 1990/91!





/jarmo

Who was arrested in that case?