Blogger arrested, accused of posting 9 unreleased Guns N' Roses songs

[jarmo]

but this situation is different from file-sharing. it's not EXACTLY the same as the whole metallica/napster thing.

Only those with agendas who need another "reason" to bash the band would claim it is.





/jarmo

[Limulus]

but this situation is different from file-sharing. it's not EXACTLY the same as the whole metallica/napster thing.

Only those with agendas who need another "reason" to bash the band would claim it is.





/jarmo

most consumers will bash Axl cause of this, no doubt! its getting GN'R in the press worldwide......bad press still is press, i doubt this is wanted by the gnr camp and i fear that this bad press might hurt the album sales even more.

[sandman]

but this situation is different from file-sharing. it's not EXACTLY the same as the whole metallica/napster thing.

Only those with agendas who need another "reason" to bash the band would claim it is.





/jarmo

agreed. i actually kinda agreed with metallica when they did what they did. or i at least understood where they were coming from anyway.

Universal (and even gnr, IF they are involved at all) have WAY MORE of a right to try to stop this. the dude either stole property or received stolen (unreleased) property with intent to distribute (or "release") to others. it's so cut and dry for me.

(i haven't been in the gnr threads too much lately, in large part because of the negativity. i don't even recognize the posters's names anymore. i must be getting old.  )

[oldgunsfan]

Nice corny comebacks jarmo, but they don't cut any wood. Metal Sludge did the exact same as Kevin, yet they go after this guy, not the company which hosted them on their internationally known site. .... so in fact, they had even more audience than Kevin.

This is very bad publicity for GnR, and anyone who can't see that must be living under a rock. All the artists who did these kind if things always came out worse, no exceptions. You can't win from teh internetz, no matter who you are and how many Mulders you send.

Arresting guys for sharing low quality demos of unfinished songs...yeah. I lost all respect for GnR today. I won't buy the album too like many now are saying everywhere.

I think there is a bit of a difference in that Kevin was the Source of the leaks (key word being the source) and all the other sites the put them up on their site.  Much lke a news story breaks, and then 15 other reporting sources put the same news on their site.

And i'm sure Kevin wasarrested in large part, by how he "prcocured" the leaks;  and I think this is more the record company going after him than Axl

[D]

How is it bad press? A dude steals puts it online gets put in jail.


anyone who won't buy the GNR album now are probably the same Downloaders who wouldn't have bought it anyway so it doesn't matter.

I can also use this analogy

How would u feel when u get your paycheck next week, and u had all Zeros on it cause your boss felt u should work for free.

Stealing and downloading music is doing the same thing.

[oldgunsfan]

The guy was wrong, I just hope he doesn't spend a lot of time in jail.  

He broke the law!

Under the Family Entertainment and Copyright Act of 2005, Cogill could face penalties of up to three years in prison and fines of up to $250,000, in addition to civil penalties sought by copyright holders.

It's not like he stole a Twix!

Jarmo, you are confused, I agree what he did was bad, but just seems like weird timing.  Also I thought these were all "demo" according to some and not "finished" tracks.

No, you're the confused one.

I watch enough TV to know that arrests aren't always made on the day of the crime....

It might take time to put the pieces together and have a case.


So what if they're demos?

If you have an album being prepared for release, you don't want some unfinished tracks being played on the radio and people judging the record based on them.





/jarmo

Its good news, means the album is close.  I just don't want him to get the max penalty because I don't think he meant harm or was malicious.  And how long does it take to make a case, HE FUCKING ADMITTED THE DAY OF THE LEAKED THEM.  But it does take time for paper work.  Thing is, it was forgotten.  BUT NOT NOW.  NOW EVERYONE WILL WANT THEM AGAIN AND GET THEM.  I just would have let sleeping dogs lie.  This dog is back up now. And guess what, 85% of THIS board has all these leaks.  This man deserves justice, but take it easy on the guy.

Well, if it's the record company pursuing action against him, they really should make an example of this guy and purdue the fullest action to the letter of the law.  But thats my opinion, maybe if they do and this guy serves three years in jail and has to pay $250K fine; those actions will deter other people from leaking other bands / artists material and this sort of shit won't happen.

[Light_LcL]

I just wanted to make something clear for people like JB who seem to confuse piracy and stealing:



Anyway, i'm sure jarmo has demo versions of UYI songs. I have some and I downloaded them right from this site. I know those are also unreleased songs the band didn't want people to hear. Does that makes us criminals also?

[Smoking Guns]

We are all sinners.  Love the sinner, hate the sin.  Here at HTGTH we hate Piracy, but we take what the pirate gives us no doubt.  So in a sense we are enablers.

[jarmo]

Anyway, i'm sure jarmo has demo versions of UYI songs. I have some and I downloaded them right from this site. I know those are also unreleased songs the band didn't want people to hear. Does that makes us criminals also?

Did I put them on this site BEFORE the albums were released? Was this site only source where you could get those mp3s and they spread all over the Internet? Were played on the radio because of them being on this site?


Keep looking for reasons why all cases are exactly the same!  





/jarmo

[FunkyMonkey]

Well at least he seems prepared...

He told Rolling Stone in June:

?If legal proceedings come my way, I?ll face them 100 percent. I?m not afraid of that. I did what I did, and I?ll face the music if I have to?

[Ali]

I just wanted to make something clear for people like JB who seem to confuse piracy and stealing:



Anyway, i'm sure jarmo has demo versions of UYI songs. I have some and I downloaded them right from this site. I know those are also unreleased songs the band didn't want people to hear. Does that makes us criminals also?

Sure, that's true.  But, piracy is a crime too.

Ali

[jarmo]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0827082gnr1.html




/jarmo

[Albert S Miller]

Wow!! It's quite interesting reading 8 pages of pretty much complete bullshit.  I am not up for sainthood or anything but I seriously have never downloaded, uploaded, don't even know how, and can honestly say that I have never heard one of these leaks or any other leaks for that matter. As a GNR fan I have always respected the privacy they ask for and deserve. I have footage from shows I have never brought into the public eye out of pure respect, maybe I am one of the nice ones who have a conscience and was taught to play by the rules, no matter what the cost. I still buy my music the old school way, at the record store, spent 105.00 just last week strictly on GNR.  It isn't about what you can afford or not, u afford the internet don't you? Yet most everyone sits around and bitches at the music industry today, you are the culprits and the contributers as to why!!  I think that Mr. whoever he  is and whomever else down the papertrail are made examples of and should ultimately be punished to the fullest extent, and then I hope Axl gets his day with all of them.

[oldgunsfan]

I just wanted to make something clear for people like JB who seem to confuse piracy and stealing:



Anyway, i'm sure jarmo has demo versions of UYI songs. I have some and I downloaded them right from this site. I know those are also unreleased songs the band didn't want people to hear. Does that makes us criminals also?

Sure, that's true.  But, piracy is a crime too.

Ali

Yeah, but the question still remains how and where did he get the leaked material as they were supposedly masters of the songs?  to use your simplified drawing: apparantly kevin stole the masters then the sites that posted them pirated them.  The fact remains, Kevin stole them from Universal/GnR.

[nonlinear]

meh...


the way i see it, leaks are like free samples of coca-cola, pepsi, chewing gum, etc. that gets passed out on the streets for free as MARKETING.

indie labels have recognized and are taking advantage of this (e.g. radiohead, nin, TONS of underground hip hop), but unfortunately the major label dinosaurs can't figure out how to capitalize on this, and are frantic...

hell, i've downloaded EVERY FUCKING LEAK that's ever happened, but you know what Universal?  I would also be willing to drop a few hundred bucks on a nice box set that includes great artwork, a dvd, vinyl, and cds....

casual fans don't seek out early demos, only the fans who are gonna drop big cash on a physical product anyhow.

these dinosaurs better adapt to reality or else understand that their business model is dying and cannot be saved.

[Leddy]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0827082gnr1.html




/jarmo

Pretty conclusive.  This is the difference regarding previous leaks, a cast iron paper trail.

[jarmo]

the way i see it, leaks are like free samples of coca-cola, pepsi, chewing gum, etc. that gets passed out on the streets for free as MARKETING.

No way!


Having tracks on your official web site or Myspace page is like those companies giving away free samples.

Because then they made the decision on what to give away, how, when and where!




/jarmo

[Ali]

the way i see it, leaks are like free samples of coca-cola, pepsi, chewing gum, etc. that gets passed out on the streets for free as MARKETING.

No way!


Having tracks on your official web site or Myspace page is like those companies giving away free samples.

Because then they made the decision on what to give away, how, when and where!




/jarmo

That's a more appropriate analogy.  I agree.

Ali

[FunkyMonkey]

Blogger arrested over leak of Guns N' Roses songs

By ANTHONY McCARTNEY

LOS ANGELES (AP) ? A blogger suspected of streaming songs from the unreleased Guns N' Roses album "Chinese Democracy" on his Web site was arrested Wednesday and appeared in court, where his bail was set at $10,000.

FBI agents arrested 27-year-old Kevin Cogill on Wednesday morning on suspicion of violating federal copyright laws. Cogill appeared in court in the afternoon wearing a T-shirt; his girlfriend sat court and afterward said, "Rally the troops," but declined further comment.

Federal authorities say Cogill posted nine unreleased Guns N' Roses songs on his Web site in June. The songs were later removed.

In later posts, Cogill wrote that the FBI had questioned him and asked his readers if any of them knew a good attorney. He was represented Wednesday by a federal public defender.

According to an arrest affidavit, Cogill admitted to agents that he posted the songs on his Web site. Prosecutors said Wednesday the leak could result in a "significant" financial loss for the band.

Cogill will not face any special Internet restrictions, but was ordered to appear in court for a preliminary hearing on Sept. 17.

"Guns N' Roses representatives have been made aware of the arrests and are leaving the matter to the authorities," said Larry Solters, the band's spokesman.

"Chinese Democracy" is a much anticipated ? and repeatedly delayed ? new album by Guns N' Roses that is more than 10 years in the making. At least one of the album's songs could be heard legally: The band wrote on its Web site in July that its track, "Shackler's Revenge" will be featured on the video game Rock Band 2, slated for release in September.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jicbPyhRI_b-YsJzxvNIXdLR0glAD92QUIL00

[nonlinear]

there is no way GNR or universal can claim they've been hurt by the leaks...  all they've done is provide the hype and word-of-mouth that this band cannot figure out how to do.

this is turning into a Lars vs. Napster type thing, which I think will be very negative for the band.

GNR and Universal need to realize that the market has changed COMPLETELY since the release of TSI, and there is nothing they can do about it.  They can choose to embrace it ala radiohead and nin (among many others), or they can try the decade-old (and failed) approach of Lars.....  we've been through all of this before.  I see this as just one more mistake in the legend of CD.