Blogger arrested, accused of posting 9 unreleased Guns N' Roses songs

[GNRVahland]

i thought these songs were demos? universal owns the rights to demo songs? something doesn't sound right with that.

Demos are copyrighted to I think and there must be a stock somewhere (RIAA in the USA ?) where they keep songs and demos. So if you have balls, just sneek in that building and find them (but I think that's illegal and encouraging someone to do that is also illegal so therefore...)

[thereisnodanaonlyz]

I think the whole stealing music thing is needed though. Look at what NIN is doing, Trent encouraged everyone to steal Year Zero and his back catalogue, and that in turn pissed off Universal/Interscope. Interscope /Universal are the bad guys here...

Dude, that's bullshit.  Trent was only "encouraging" people to steal his music to sound cool and separate himself from other artists who want to clamp down on that kind of crap.  You know full well that if record sales of "Year Zero" were down significantly because of theft, he'd not only be pissed he wasn't making money, but Universal could make a case against Reznor for the encouragement.  

[doooodickiebr]

jarmo, be honest, on your mother's grave...have you listened to the leaks?

Not any of the ones talked about in this article.

I heard a short snippet here and there in order to validate the clip being GN'R.

But no full songs or enough to form an opinion on the song.


I prefer to be surprised once the album is out. Instead of letting some people who have nothing to do with the album decide when I should hear the music.






/jarmo

are these the same leaks or new ones.  what songs?

[patcooper]

jarmo, be honest, on your mother's grave...have you listened to the leaks?

Not any of the ones talked about in this article.

I heard a short snippet here and there in order to validate the clip being GN'R.

But no full songs or enough to form an opinion on the song.


I prefer to be surprised once the album is out. Instead of letting some people who have nothing to do with the album decide when I should hear the music.






/jarmo

are these the same leaks or new ones.  what songs?

no new ones. they leaked 2 months ago. it's funny i thought we werent allowed to talk about the leaks here. lol CD must be really close.

[Nytunz]

GnR Fighting the internet? Well, thats bullshit

- Didnt GnR make it possible for fans on the messageboards to get tickets before others?

- Didnt GnR put out some good quality live stuff on theyr website?

- You can buy ithems from theyr official website?

- Bumblefoot have made lots of Interviews with the fans, so have other members

Just because GnR havent found the right time to release theyr first official song yet, dont mean they are fighting the internet.
What they ARE fighting.. is illegal activity which harm them, both because this may not be the versions they are wanting people to hear
I know lots of hardcore fans will buy copie(S) of CD. But lots of people who heard they leaks, may not do it.. and thats hurting the sale.

[gearbm95]

I think the whole stealing music thing is needed though. Look at what NIN is doing, Trent encouraged everyone to steal Year Zero and his back catalogue, and that in turn pissed off Universal/Interscope. Interscope /Universal are the bad guys here...

Dude, that's bullshit.  Trent was only "encouraging" people to steal his music to sound cool and separate himself from other artists who want to clamp down on that kind of crap.  You know full well that if record sales of "Year Zero" were down significantly because of theft, he'd not only be pissed he wasn't making money, but Universal could make a case against Reznor for the encouragement.  

Trent came right out and said that NIN sees about 10 "points" per record. Anyone that is in the industry knows that points add up to about roughly 4 cents per record, that means even if Year Zero sells 1,000,000 he sees a grand total of $160,000. Royalties and publishing are seperate but sales alone he would make very little money.

Directly from his mouth...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ5iHaV0dP4

[chineseblues]

they (whoever "they" is - i guess indirectly it's universal, but it doesn't seem to be gnr) are NOT going after someone for DOWNLOADING music.

my understanding is that they are going after someone for stealing their property and then making that property available to thousands of other people.

the laws are in place to protect them, so this seems pretty fair to me.

it's confusing to me why so many people are so passionate about defending a criminal. even if you hate record labels, or even if you hate gnr and just come here to be assholes, why defend a criminal???

Did you download or listem to any of the leaks? Do you use torrent or peer 2 peer sites?

It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with someone who posted COPYRIGHTED UNRELEASED material on the internet for the whole world to have. Yes the fucker got what he deserved for doing that.

[Nytunz]

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/08/27/chinese-democracy-leaker-arrested-on-suspicion-of-violating-federal-copyright-law/

Now Rollingstone are writing about it also

[jarmo]

Guns N' Roses Internet Tracks Lead To Copyright Arrest - US Attorney

Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008


jLawFuel - Special agents with the Federal Bureau of Investigation this morning arrested a Culver City man on charges that he violated federal copyright laws by posting nine songs from Guns N? Roses? unreleased album Chinese Democracy on his website.

Kevin Cogill, who uses the online moniker ?Skwerl,? admitted to investigators that he posted the songs on his website, www.antiquiet.com, according to a criminal complaint.

Cogill, 27, is expected to make his initial court appearance this afternoon in United States District Court in Los Angeles. If Cogill is convicted of the copyright infringement charges, he faces a maximum statutory sentence of three years in federal prison, or five years if proven that he did it for financial gain.

An indictment contains allegations that a defendant has committed a crime. Every defendant is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty.

The investigation into Cogill was conducted by the FBI, which received assistance from the Recording Industry Association of America.

CONTACT: Assistant United States Attorney Craig H. Missakian
Cyber and Intellectual Property Crimes Section


http://lawfuel.com/show-release.asp?ID=19151

The investigation into Cogill was conducted by the FBI, which received assistance from the Recording Industry Association of America.

/jarmo

[thereisnodanaonlyz]

I think the whole stealing music thing is needed though. Look at what NIN is doing, Trent encouraged everyone to steal Year Zero and his back catalogue, and that in turn pissed off Universal/Interscope. Interscope /Universal are the bad guys here...

Dude, that's bullshit.  Trent was only "encouraging" people to steal his music to sound cool and separate himself from other artists who want to clamp down on that kind of crap.  You know full well that if record sales of "Year Zero" were down significantly because of theft, he'd not only be pissed he wasn't making money, but Universal could make a case against Reznor for the encouragement.  

Trent came right out and said that NIN sees about 10 "points" per record. Anyone that is in the industry knows that points add up to about roughly 4 cents per record, that means even if Year Zero sells 1,000,000 he sees a grand total of $160,000. Royalties and publishing are seperate but sales alone he would make very little money.

Directly from his mouth...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ5iHaV0dP4

Well, I still believe he'd be pissed if lo and behold, the $160,000 sunk to like, $30,000 due to theft of the record.  And again, if true damages were felt as a result of Reznor's words, I'm sure Universal could try to go after him if they believed he caused said damages.  Universal probably didn't care because they know that most people don't want to risk being arrested for things and would just opt to buy the cd (not barring legal downloads online...) instead of trying to sneak it out of a store, unpaid.  If anything, his rant just made him look like more of a "rebel" to his fans.

[D]

I havent read every post in this thread so If this has been said I apologize

But what a bunch of self righteous Hyprocritical FUCKS we are for condeming this guy.

Take a look at yourself in the mirrror ok......


IF u DL the leaks, U are just as guilty as this guy. If u didn't, bravo and flame a way but if U DL them and sent them to a friend, u are in the same boat as this guy so let's don't go too crazy condemning the guy.


That being said, if someone close to Axl is the one who gave this guy and others the leaks, they are even a bigger piece of shit because they would've been someone Axl trusted and that means they would've been disloyal.

[jarmo]

IF u DL the leaks, U are just as guilty as this guy.

Looks like the RIAA or FBI don't share this thought right now.


And also, for all the people who say "GN'R are against their fans" might wanna think before posting that thought.

GN'R haven't gone after their fans. The record company decided to do something about these leaked tracks.





/jarmo

[Limulus]

for him it also depends if these leaks are finalized cd versions or working demos. if they were working demos NOT planed to be released (f.e. cause of song structure, different lyrics, other guitar parts etc.) its some different issue because he simply didnt upload the versions of the upcoming official album, so he wouldnt have leaked (parts of) the "real" album in advance.

also about the "stealing" in this case......congratulation, you got the "easy target", the man who uploaded 9 songs (please recall its absolutely not even proven that he is THE "thief") but its not like you got the demos/songs back, they are still EVERYWHERE! this whole scenario might make musically history in a way - him being the first person in stuff like this and so his future probably isnt holding much of goodness, as mentioned - .....though i seriously have my doubts with this move. in a way they have to "react" but publicitywise for the normal press believers and people who dont follow the history of GN'R that close its "Axl against the fans". Axl and his inner circle don't have the best reputation for communicating, never had, so uhm......the ball is allready coming back!

what seems to work is that concentrating on this "leaker" with that much press and all the worldwide attention, it slows down some other recent problems where not only normal fans seem to be involved... 

[destroier]

In this case, there is no album to buy, thus there are no sales lost.

But you don't fucking own it. You don't have the right to take something that's not yours and do as you please with it.

That's what they call copyright.

/jarmo

But in order to sue, you must prove injury. There was no loss on the part of the record company and the artist, therefore no grounds for a lawsuit. This is why they had him arrested instead of suing him, which is just going to make the band look bad in everyone's eyes. Metallica's sales suffered after they took a stand against Napster, and I suspect GNR will suffer the same fate. Justified or not, having people arrested over this will not reflect well on the band in the eyes of most consumers.

[bazgnr]

Me, I think it's great news that the record company is taking a stand on behalf of the album.   Good things are coming, I would hope, and soon.

[D]

No doubt this dude is fucked and he should be and man, If I were others who did this, I would seriously be out of my  mind with fear.

what's scary is, this guy will probably wear this as a badge of honor and be PROUD that he can be the GNR fan jailed for the leaks.

He is probably in a sick way getting off on the infamy.


I dont see how anyone can hold this against GNR. If u get mad at a band for protecting what is theirs, u aren't a true fan in my opinion.

[jarmo]

But in order to sue, you must prove injury.

He wasn't sued. At least not yet.

He broke the law.

Just like it's breaking the law if you drive under the influence, speed in traffic or present a fake I.D.



/jarmo

[D]

anyone ever rented or bought a DVD

it says right on the front of the DVD before the previews etc.

FBI

This is protecting under federal copyright law, if u duplicate this or blah blah u can receive 10 years in prison and a 250,000 dollar fine.

[gnrpatience]

So we all know he is a criminal as the law states that. What if he provides the names of the person(s) who gave him this material, they will be criminals too, then we will know that someone in the camp of GNR is a crminal.

My point is that Axl might have not good people in his camp.


Im sorry for that guy but maybe he deserves it im not the law.


Im happy to know we will have the CD soon!!!!!!!!!!

[sandman]

they (whoever "they" is - i guess indirectly it's universal, but it doesn't seem to be gnr) are NOT going after someone for DOWNLOADING music.

my understanding is that they are going after someone for stealing their property and then making that property available to thousands of other people.

the laws are in place to protect them, so this seems pretty fair to me.

it's confusing to me why so many people are so passionate about defending a criminal. even if you hate record labels, or even if you hate gnr and just come here to be assholes, why defend a criminal???

Did you download or listem to any of the leaks? Do you use torrent or peer 2 peer sites?

damn straight i have the leaks!! someone gave them to me and i couldn't resist. i crank them frequently. they are incredible!

but part of me knows it's not right. that's actually part of the thrill.

but i would never put them on a website for thousands of people to download.

now call me a hypocrite, but i also do 85 on the NJ Parkway when i'm driving to the shore. but if i get pulled over by a cop, how can i argue when the law is clear?

no, i don't use torrent (probably because i'm a little behind the times technology wise). but this situation is different from file-sharing. it's not EXACTLY the same as the whole metallica/napster thing.