Blogger arrested, accused of posting 9 unreleased Guns N' Roses songs

[Axl4Prez2004]

GNR4L, I totally agree.   

[GNR4L]

I think this is a rare case in leaks that we will never see again in are lifetime.  The forthcoming album of Guns N' Roses Chinese Democracy is 14 years in the making.  It could be 9 years if you start from 99.  Axl has worked hard to achieve a sound that isn't washed up and is something new to reinvent GnR as a band, there has been delays about releasing this album due to legal issues, record company neogations, ect.  I know its hard for 99.9 percent of fans who live off of and have been waiting so long to hear their favorite band put out a song let alone a record.  That in this wait people have become frustrated and attacked this band without ever knowing the full details.  I don't blame us fans for being frustrated but until you know the real story (hopefully we will know one day) about the delay of releasing CD I please ask from attacking Axl, the band, and their love ones.  Guns N' Roses wants this album out as much as you and I do but sometimes you gotta wait, unfortuantely this has been a really long wait. 

Where so close to seeing this album be put out and reliving those moments as a kid listening to UYI and AFD on your cassette or CD players, discman for me  I understand when 9 songs leak that have been years in the making people wanna hear them ! but why ruin the surprise when you go that one tue morning and pickup that CD and look at the cover art and realize that you have CD in your hands.  When people who leak shit and put it out for the masses to hear that's over half the album THAT'S WRONG.  I would be so pissed If I was AXL oh man this long hard journey of music he's made leaks online at some blogger site.  Its just wrong so people for the sake of Chinese Democracy and for the sake of Guns N' Roses putting this record out please refrain from leaking or listening it will do the GnR world good.

[faldor]

Good points GNR4L, and good post by slashbaconpit too.  I completely understand the frustration, that's validated, no problem there.  But some people seem to take it an extra step and blame anything and everything on Axl, whether justified or not.  People think they know what's going on and believe there's no reason the album shouldn't be out yet.  We don't know the half of it, so let's not try and pretend like we do.  I would hope that once the album does come out we could all hold hands and rejoice in perfect harmony, but I don't see that happening.  I don't know this as fact, but it just seems as though some people already have their minds made up that no matter how good the music is or however the band chooses to reach out to the fans, nothing will be good enough.  Axl can do no right at this point for some people, there's no winning them back.  If Axl hand delivered a copy of Chinese Democracy to some of your doors, you'd ultimately find something wrong with his presentation and you'd bash him for it.  The guy is a musical genious and a very complex guy, I'm not about to act like I understand him or where he's coming from.  It seems like some of you know a whole lot more about him than I do, or at least you think you do.

[fuckin crazy]

Most of us have feasted on the dead, and bloated, carcass of Universal, and others. And, It about time the corporate whores smell the stench of their demise.

[norway]

NOTHING entitles anyone to download illegal leaks. 

I'm no hypocrite.   I was weak and I downloaded leaks.   It was wrong.   There is no justification for it.   

It's very normal tho it shouldn't be done.
Leaking it on the other hand is more serious, as more people will download it illegal in lack og legal downloads.

GunsN'Roses see's this and hence respond in the manner that they do. They don't support Kevin, but wan't the source.

In 06, Axl asked about downloading before playing IRS, I think all screamed "yes"

[rds.06]

You can't blame the people who download it, you need to blame the source/ancient delivery methods of music.

whats ancient about it?  you can now buy mp3s on amazon and get music from itunes..  you can order cd's from the internet and have them delivered to your house.    what do you want?

I download music "illegally", and will continue to do so until record companies fall down on their knees and comply with the real world.

and what would fit the defintion of "comply with the real world"?  give it away all for free?   Thats not how this world works.   Its wrong and theres nothing to justify it.

Oh I could write ten pages worth of rant here, but instead I keep suggesting you to read this great article, which gives a real insight to whats going on in the music industry atm. (also answers your questions)


http://www.demonbaby.com/blog/2007/10/when-pigs-fly-death-of-oink-birth-of.html

That article is completely ridiculous at the end. He has some great points but he is so fucking delusional when it comes to trying to justify free music. The guy has no clue the time, money and energy it takes to create an album.

You gotta have a real talent to make your own music ! I think one of the hardest thing's to do is write a song.  When someone takes that talent of yours that you make a living off of and post it everywhere when its not finished is just basically wrong.  Might aswell just take a shit on me cause that's basically what your doing.

Oh God GNR4L you are so dramatic!

"I think one of the hardest thing's to do is write a song."

I disagree, i think fighting cancer, watching friends & family die, are some of the things that are harder than writing a song. Anyone can write a song, it may not be any good but its still a song.

"Might aswell just take a shit on me cause that's basically what your doing."

Thats a slight over reaction now

Should he have leaked the songs? - NO

Is it wrong to leak somebody else material? - YES

Is it fair on the GNR? - NO

Does the leaker disserve to be punished? - Yes

We have figured out it was wrong to do but its NOT the end of the world.

This shit happens all the time and will continue to happen. All this talk about "stealing", if you have ever burned a cd you are "stealing", if you knowingly listened to the leaks you are "stealing". Those of us without sin can throw the first stone, but I doubt that anyone on this board has never burned a cd or listened to the leaks. I know that I have done it.

I read posts saying that people got the hear 9 songs for free. Well how do we know GNR are not going to give the album away for free like Radiohead did. We just dont know what GNR are going to do with the release of this record. 

Im not defending this guys actions because what he did was wrong but from reading this thread it seems that alot of people have become whiter them white. Im sure more tracks will leak and people will listen to them, comment on them, then bitch about what a shitty a thing it is to do to have leaked the tracks they have just listened to. 

[jarmo]

Now when a fan loses money on plane tickets, hotel reservations and whatnot because GNR cancels a show at the very last minute, and that fan bitches about it, it's not trashing the band. It's being truthful about something that was handled badly.

First of, you're assuming a show was canceled because of something being handled badly.

Not always the case. People can get sick and not be able to perform. There's also things like the weather that might have an effect on a concert.

Anyway, in that case disappointment and frustration are normal reactions.

You bought the ticket, you had marked the date in your calendar, you traveled to the show etc.

It's understandable!

Some with CD. I think a lot of people think the criticism of GNR is trashing them. It's not. It's being honest about a situation created by the band. The fans didn't preview the album for Rolling Stone in 1999. The fans haven't teased about a release date for the album for years. The fans haven't organized tour after tour under the CD banner only to not release the album.

No, it's not the same.

You didn't mark a date in your calendar AFTER you paid for the album.

You didn't have to travel anywhere to get the album either since it wasn't even released.



You have built these expectations up on your own and then use the disappointed against the band. Who had nothing to do with what you did.

Axl can play tracks for Rolling Stone, but it doesn't mean that you and I can start feeling frustrated because it wasn't released.

It's his music and decision.







/jarmo

[D]

That is really a great post Jarmo. The last part about the CD. I never really looked at it that way. 

[AxlNow]

Axl can play tracks for Rolling Stone, but it doesn't mean that you and I can start feeling frustrated because it wasn't released.

It's his music and decision.



/jarmo

What? Think about what you just said again. You are going to start telling people when they can feel frustrated now? This Soap Opera has played out for more than 10 years. Frustration is an emotion that can't be helped and I think people have the right to be frustrated. How many times has the band said the CD was going to be released or have given a certain time frame? When somebody tells you one thing and it doesn't happen, I think that is a perfect reason to feel frustrated. Perhaps you should replace the words feeling frustated with the words placing blame.

[jarmo]

Axl can play tracks for Rolling Stone, but it doesn't mean that you and I can start feeling frustrated because it wasn't released.

It's his music and decision.



/jarmo

What? Think about what you just said again. You are going to start telling people when they can feel frustrated now?

You can feel frustrated because your coffee wasn't perfect if you want.


I'm amazed at how people seem to make up reasons to be angry at the band.

When it's mostly about them being frustrated due to their own choices.


You make your own possible scenarios -> It doesn't happen -> You feel frustrated -> You blame the band.


The frustration pretty much goes hand in hand with blaming the band.

Those who don't have this frustration chip on their shoulders are probably less likely to be blaming the band.


That's what I meant.




/jarmo

[kaasupoltin]

I don't think being frustrated and blaming the band is the same thing, at all. I don't blame the band for the wait, but I do feel frustrated some times. Think about it, you wait for something for so many years and when you think something's happening and then realise that nothing really happened, of course you feel that way. And if you think that is "blaming the band", I don't see at all where you're coming from. As AxlNow said; it is a feeling that can't be helped.

It is true that it's Axl's music and his decision, but it doesn't rule out the feel of frustration either.

[slashsbaconpit]

I think a lot of people confuse "frustration" with "trashing the band."

Now when a fan loses money on plane tickets, hotel reservations and whatnot because GNR cancels a show at the very last minute, and that fan bitches about it, it's not trashing the band. It's being truthful about something that was handled badly.

Some with CD. I think a lot of people think the criticism of GNR is trashing them. It's not. It's being honest about a situation created by the band. The fans didn't preview the album for Rolling Stone in 1999. The fans haven't teased about a release date for the album for years. The fans haven't organized tour after tour under the CD banner only to not release the album.

Now comes the part where someone jumps down my throat and says "Axl doesn't owe you anything! Blah blah! You don't understand the artistic process! Blah, blah!"

And you'd be right. I don't understand. Maybe it's the band, maybe it's Axl, maybe it's the record company, or the United States government. I don't understand why an album is teased for so long with no release. It doesn't help that no information is released. It's frustrating.

It doesn't mean I don't respect GNR or like what they are doing. I do.

I really think once the album is out, it's going to heal a lot things in the fandom. Debates like this will become moot, and we can all go along being friends united by the GNR banner!

   You sir are a fucking Genius with words! I'm not busting balls either. You've actually explained the situation about as well as a person can possibly explain it. Thank you for having common sense and speaking about things in a very accurate way that doesn't insult anybody. I couldn't have done it better myself.

Thank you.

I also know Jarmo would get on the ball and tell me how unjustified I am in being frustrated. Typical.

[ppbebe]

with whatever excuse, the fact is that you owe the band if you dl it.

You can feel frustrated because your coffee wasn't perfect if you want.

But don't take it out on others. It's your coffee.

[slashsbaconpit]

1. First of, you're assuming a show was canceled because of something being handled badly.
You bought the ticket, you had marked the date in your calendar, you traveled to the show etc.

2. You have built these expectations up on your own and then use the disappointed against the band. Who had nothing to do with what you did.

Axl can play tracks for Rolling Stone, but it doesn't mean that you and I can start feeling frustrated because it wasn't released.

/jarmo

1. IF I were the only fan this had happened to, then yes. But no, it's a pattern with GNR. Announce a tour, play some dates, cancel some dates at the last minute, then abort the tour.
It's a pattern, and it's damn frustrating! I'm sorry if you think I'm trashing your musical heroes, but it's a fact.
2. No, you're flat, dead wrong on this my friend. I'm sorry, I don't mean any disrespect, and I don't mean to be a jerk, but the expectations wouldn't be there if Axl hadn't of started spinning this disc for people nine years ago and promoting it. How many times has he told us "soon" or "hopefully this year" or "next year."
That's where the expectations come from. If Axl had just worked on CD without promoting it years and years before it could be released, there wouldn't be expectations. None.

Instead we've been given hints, promises, tours under the CD banner ... and you're telling us that being frustrated is akin to blaming the band. What the hell is wrong with blaming the band?! You act like that's a sin against God and nature to blame the band for not releasing its own music after building up expectations for it.

You know, Axl himself has said that yes, even his shit stinks.

Take this into a movie setting. Imagine a studio says, "Hey, we;re making a sequel to Batman Begins" (like I don't know, having an interview with Rolling Stone where you say you're almost done with an album). Then they release a teaser trailer (like putting out a song on the End of Days soundtrack). Then they release a full trailer (like going on tour under the CD banner) and start a full promotion of the movie (like selling CD merchandise in the GNRonline store), but then instead of releasing the movie, it's pushed back. Again. And again. And this goes on for nine years, all the time, releasing little snippits of trailers, interviews with the cast, but no movie. Don't you think people would be kinda frustrated with the hype if there was no pay-off?

Same here. Axl is the one who has hyped this project. He did build up our expectations. I do blame him for that. In my job I don't say I'm going to have something done by the end of the week unless I really can and do have it done by the end of the week. I'd get fired if I didn't.

Blaming the band isn't a sin. They bear a lot of responsiblity for the hype.

But, and this is a BIG BUT, when the album is finally released, I think the frustration will melt away. I really don't think you'll see people being angry with the band after the release. Whether they like it or not, that has yet to be seen, but at least people will have the album. I really don't see many people complaining once CD is out.

[AxlNow]

I'm amazed at how people seem to make up reasons to be angry at the band. When it's mostly about them being frustrated due to their own choices. You make your own possible scenarios -> It doesn't happen -> You feel frustrated -> You blame the band. The frustration pretty much goes hand in hand with blaming the band. Those who don't have this frustration chip on their shoulders are probably less likely to be blaming the band.

/jarmo

   Like I said earlier..... which is a point that you chose to skip right over when you responded. So I'll repeat it for you again. How many times has the band said the CD was going to be released or have given a certain time frame? When somebody tells you one thing and it doesn't happen, I think that is a perfect reason to feel frustrated.

Picture this Jarmo. This website goes down due to reasons beyond the control of your webhost. Power outage, natural disaster etc..... Then they keep giving you time frames for when things will be back up and running again. Before you know it, minutes turn into Hours, Hours turns into days and days turn into weeks. Do you think you might reach a point where you start to feel a bit frustrated?  

 


  

[AxlsMainMan]

1. IF I were the only fan this had happened to, then yes. But no, it's a pattern with GNR. Announce a tour, play some dates, cancel some dates at the last minute, then abort the tour.
It's a pattern, and it's damn frustrating! I'm sorry if you think I'm trashing your musical heroes, but it's a fact.
2. No, you're flat, dead wrong on this my friend. I'm sorry, I don't mean any disrespect, and I don't mean to be a jerk, but the expectations wouldn't be there if Axl hadn't of started spinning this disc for people nine years ago and promoting it. How many times has he told us "soon" or "hopefully this year" or "next year."
That's where the expectations come from. If Axl had just worked on CD without promoting it years and years before it could be released, there wouldn't be expectations. None.

Instead we've been given hints, promises, tours under the CD banner ... and you're telling us that being frustrated is akin to blaming the band. What the hell is wrong with blaming the band?! You act like that's a sin against God and nature to blame the band for not releasing its own music after building up expectations for it.

You know, Axl himself has said that yes, even his shit stinks.

Take this into a movie setting. Imagine a studio says, "Hey, we;re making a sequel to Batman Begins" (like I don't know, having an interview with Rolling Stone where you say you're almost done with an album). Then they release a teaser trailer (like putting out a song on the End of Days soundtrack). Then they release a full trailer (like going on tour under the CD banner) and start a full promotion of the movie (like selling CD merchandise in the GNRonline store), but then instead of releasing the movie, it's pushed back. Again. And again. And this goes on for nine years, all the time, releasing little snippits of trailers, interviews with the cast, but no movie. Don't you think people would be kinda frustrated with the hype if there was no pay-off?

Same here. Axl is the one who has hyped this project. He did build up our expectations. I do blame him for that. In my job I don't say I'm going to have something done by the end of the week unless I really can and do have it done by the end of the week. I'd get fired if I didn't.

Blaming the band isn't a sin. They bear a lot of responsiblity for the hype.

But, and this is a BIG BUT, when the album is finally released, I think the frustration will melt away. I really don't think you'll see people being angry with the band after the release. Whether they like it or not, that has yet to be seen, but at least people will have the album. I really don't see many people complaining once CD is out.

To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement. Overcoming the endless and seemingly insane amount of obstacles faced by all involved, notwithstanding the emotional challenges endured by everyone -- the fans, the band, our road crew and business team -- has at many times seemed like a bad dream in which one wakes up only to find that they are still in the nightmare. Unfortunately, this time it has been played out for over a decade in real life.

The true, ongoing, behind-the-scenes triumphs and casualties are much more complicated than any negative speculation that the media or otherwise has managed to hit upon. For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album. It?s easy for people to point out how others have handled similar situations or how they would have dealt with these issues themselves if they encountered them in their own lives. But again, without full knowledge of the various dynamics and circumstances involved, these types of comments or commentary are just uninformed, disassociated, generally useless -- and often hindering --speculation.


- Axl Rose

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1744

[ppbebe]

Good call AxlsMainMan

and wasn't this thread about the arrest?
seemingly many were so gutted about it.
Now that it's clear that the band had no say in the arrest and the other musician is wishing the guy to die in prison, I bet they lost respect for the latter one.

[faldor]

Good call AxlsMainMan

and wasn't this thread about the arrest?
seemingly many were so gutted about it.
Now that it's clear that the band had no say in the arrest and the other musician is wishing the guy to die in prison, I bet they lost respect for the latter one.

Yeah that really does paint a picture for you, well for me at least.  Axl's letter that is.  Not sure what's so hard to understand from that.  People are continuing to question him and say that others have done things differently, just as he predicted. 

Yeah this thread kind of took a turn away from the blogger.  I thought maybe Slash defending Axl and GNR would sway all the Slash lovers/Axl haters, but not even that has worked.  Like I said before, for a lot of people Axl can do no right at this point.  People have lost respect for him because of their own expectations.  That's fine, you have that right.  And as slashbaconpit states, that will all go away when the album comes out.  I'm glad that's the case for him, I just don't see that happening for many others.  "We waited 14 years for this?"  "When's the next album coming out?"  I've gotta wait 10 more years now?"  Those are the kind of reactions I'm prepared for.

[jarmo]

I also know Jarmo would get on the ball and tell me how unjustified I am in being frustrated. Typical.

No, what's typical is that you're trying to justify your frustrations by blaming the band for them.

It's your fantasy that didn't come true.


You didn't even try to address the points I made, you just posted that. Typical! 


You're obviously very close to Dead Horse territory here. Because there's a whole thread where you can vent your so called frustrations.

There goes all your theories of how I'm trying to stop you from being frustrated and how I try to control your feelings.

Another one of your fantasies turned out to be just that, a fantasy. Sorry!


I suggest you go post there instead of trying to ruin yet another thread because you're so frustrated. 

How many times has the band said the CD was going to be released or have given a certain time frame?

Should, would, hope, tentative? Does those words ring a bell?

Your web host analogy has one big flaw.

I would be their customer, who paid for a service and expects getting the money's worth.


A better comparison would be if you feel frustrated because your friend tells you he/she hopes to come visit you next summer and he doesn't make it.....



/jarmo

[faldor]

I also know Jarmo would get on the ball and tell me how unjustified I am in being frustrated. Typical.

No, what's typical is that you're trying to justify your frustrations by blaming the band for them.

It's your fantasy that didn't come true.


You didn't even try to address the points I made, you just posted that. Typical! 


You're obviously very close to Dead Horse territory here. Because there's a whole thread where you can vent your so called frustrations.

There goes all your theories of how I'm trying to stop you from being frustrated and how I try to control your feelings.

Another one of your fantasies turned out to be just that, a fantasy. Sorry!


I suggest you go post there instead of trying to ruin yet another thread because you're so frustrated. 

How many times has the band said the CD was going to be released or have given a certain time frame?

Should, would, hope, tentative? Does those words ring a bell?

Your web host analogy has one big flaw.

I would be their customer, who paid for a service and expects getting the money's worth.


A better comparison would be if you feel frustrated because your friend tells you he/she hopes to come visit you next summer and he doesn't make it.....



/jarmo

I would vilify and speak ill of that friend till the end of time.  That would be the only thing to do, right?  I have friends that make promises that I just know they're not gonna keep so I don't build up my expectations.  I just shrug it off as it won't happen, if it does, well then great.  Sort of relateable in this situation.  This is a battle that could go on forever though so it's not worth fighting.  This has quickly turned into a frustration thread, sorry for contributing to that.