2008 Fantasy Football

[Neemo]

i'll trade peyton manning or philip rivers for a decent runningback

my team is fucking brutal   

[D]

Here is my and Neemo's trade and the logic

He needs a RB, I need a WR
I also need an upgrade at QB as Derek Anderson sucks and Matt Hasselback has no WR's.


So

Brandon Jacobs for Hines Ward  *RB for WR*
Matt Hasselback and Hank Baskett for Peyton Manning

Or u can look at it like Jacobs for Manning and Hasselback/Baskett for Ward.



Rivers is his starter, Hasselback gives good numbers and Baskett has been a nice WR this season so far.

I didn't want Patton but he was gonna drop him so I told him to just throw him in on the deal to make it 3-3.


I think this is pretty fair as I do have integrity in Fantasy leagues and never particpate in anything unfair.


so give me some feedback and be honest.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Here is my and Neemo's trade and the logic

He needs a RB, I need a WR
I also need an upgrade at QB as Derek Anderson sucks and Matt Hasselback has no WR's.


So

Brandon Jacobs for Hines Ward  *RB for WR*
Matt Hasselback and Hank Baskett for Peyton Manning

Or u can look at it like Jacobs for Manning and Hasselback/Baskett for Ward.



Rivers is his starter, Hasselback gives good numbers and Baskett has been a nice WR this season so far.

I didn't want Patton but he was gonna drop him so I told him to just throw him in on the deal to make it 3-3.


I think this is pretty fair as I do have integrity in Fantasy leagues and never particpate in anything unfair.


so give me some feedback and be honest.

I'll be honest...you're getting one hell of a deal D.   

[D]

If u don't think its fair vote against it.

If u look at the numbers, everything lines up rather well.


if u go Jacobs for Manning.

Jacobs is a first round RB, Manning is a first RD QB

Hines Ward, especially with Roethlisberger hurt isn't as valuable, he is more of a 2nd tier WR

U got Moss,TO,Fitzgerald,Boldin, B Marshall on level 1
then the next tier is Ward,Colston,WIlliams, Holt,Harrison.Wayne,Chad Johnson,TJ Houze however u spell it...

So Hasselback and Baskett for Ward isn't an amazing steal considering Baskett's fantasy scoring is comparable so far.

[Neemo]

we went back and forth a couple times too with offers

anyway i still have rivers at QB and my rb's are brutal...and bbeing dead last i need a shakeup

pt wise so far its pretty even

baskett , hasselbeck, jacobs = 91.24pts

manning , patten, ward = 94.06pts

[faldor]

I think you're getting the better end of the deal too D, but I think I'd be willing to let it slide unless others feel strongly against it.  I'll try my best to stick up for neemo here.  

I honestly don't think Manning is gonna have that great a year.  He'll have his Manning-like games from time to time but the days of him throwing for 4500 yards and 40+ TD's are a thing of the past (really that only happened one season, but you know what I mean).  Granted he'll still have very solid numbers, but his line is banged up, his running game has been below average, Dallas Clark is always an injury risk and the backup TE options aren't very attractive in Indy, and Marvin Harrison seems to be finally showing his age (he's old).  I know Hasselbeck has nobody to throw to, RIGHT NOW.  But after the bye week both Bobby Engram and Deion Branch should be back.  Those are his projected top 2 targets, so that's gotta help.  And they play in a pretty poor division still even though Arizona and San Fran look improved.  His numbers last year were quite comparable to Peyton's.  With some weapons coming back I think he could bounce back.  Though Neemo has Rivers, so he would probably only use him during the bye week or maybe for a favorable matchup or 2.  

Jacobs is a solid RB as long as he can stay healthy.  Driver is the most reliable WR for the Steelers, Holmes is more dynamic but he's not quite there yet.  Baskett and Patten may be about even, though I'd give a slight edge to Patten.

Here's the way I'd look at it overall, Neemo goes from Rivers/H. Ward/Welker/Coles/W. Dunn to Rivers/Welker/Coles/Toomer/Jacobs.

D goes from Hasselbeck/TJ Housh/Stuckey/Baskett/Jacobs to Manning/TJ Housh/Stuckey/Patten or Crayton/P. Thomas or L. McClain.

If you can follow all that.

[D]

Also, people have to seperate Peyton Manning this year from the Legend that is Peyton Manning.

If Manning had 8tds and 2 picks of course Id have the better end but Peyton isnt 100 percent and his O line is injured etc.

Harrison isn't ever gonna be the same, so u have to look at that context.

He is however an upgrade for me at QB slightly and Hines Ward fills the receiver spot I desperately need.

Neemo gets the RB he needs desperately and he gets a very good backup QB in Hasselback who will be really good in a few weeks when his WR's come back.

[D]

My team was:
Hasselback
TJ
Stuckey
Baskett
Jacobs
Westbrook
Witten
White

it will now be
Manning
TJ
Ward
Stuckey
Westbrook
Lendale White
Witten
Pierre Thomas/McCallister McClain


Think of this
Who will score more pts
Manning/Ward
Hasselback/Jacobs

very close if u look at it.

[faldor]

Also, people have to seperate Peyton Manning this year from the Legend that is Peyton Manning.

If Manning had 8tds and 2 picks of course Id have the better end but Peyton isnt 100 percent and his O line is injured etc.

Harrison isn't ever gonna be the same, so u have to look at that context.

He is however an upgrade for me at QB slightly and Hines Ward fills the receiver spot I desperately need.

Neemo gets the RB he needs desperately and he gets a very good backup QB in Hasselback who will be really good in a few weeks when his WR's come back.

Agreed, I think people fondly remember Peyton in his legendary fantasy years.  I don't think he's there anymore.  He's still very good, don't get me wrong, but he's no longer WAY ahead of the pack.  Last year there were a handful of QB's that had equal or better fantasy numbers than him.  Last season he had 5 games in which he threw only 1 TD, in 3 games he threw 2 TD's, and in 2 he threw 0.  Granted the remaining 6 weeks he threw 20, but that's really only 6 good weeks in the fantasy world.  2 TD's is okay, but 1 or 0 can kill you, and he did that 7 times last season.

[Axl4Prez2004]

"I think this is pretty fair as I do have integrity in Fantasy leagues and never particpate in anything unfair."

-This line made me raise an eyebrow D.     You seemed to be defending your integrity before it was ever called into question (which it still hasn't btw)   

Call me crazy...but when Peyton gets Saturday back under center, and the o-line gels...hell, even before then, Peyton's a top tier quarterback.  Peyton Manning, Tony Romo, and now Rivers and Cutler have to be viewed as the top-tier Group A of fantasy qb's.  Brandon Jacobs isn't even close to top-tier of fantasy running backs.

This line was funny too:  "pt wise so far its pretty even
baskett , hasselbeck, jacobs = 91.24pts
manning , patten, ward = 94.06pts"

I've got Felix Jones on my roster, he's scored more points than Steven Jackson!  How about Felix for S-Jax?  Yeah, I didn't think that owner would want that deal.   

My question would be to Neemo.  Do you really think you shopped Peyton around for the best deal?  Right now, I don't think I'd block the deal, but I do think you could have done better.    Props to D if the deal goes through. 

[Neemo]

^nobody else offered me anything 

seriously though if you dont like the deal then all you can do is vote against it....all i know is that my first 3 weeks have been brutal and something needs to be done

wk1 - L - 72.78 to 104.12
wk2 - L - 75.94 to 155.92
wk3 - L - 50.84 to 109.58

who would you consider top tier for RB? well one that you would trade for Manning? most people in this pool are doing fine with their qb's at the moment 

I know i'm downgrading at WR but i'm upgrading at RB...and i still have Philip Rivers in the wings for QB ..who i havent started yet cuz i've been watign for Peyton to wake the fuck up    and i'll be getting a suitable backup in Hasselbeck..

but who knows, maybe this is a dumb trade on my part...i thought it looked pretty fair, but this is only my second fantasy league ever so what do i know 

[D]

I just meant that, i have integrity in fantasy games and if the majorty feels it isn't fair, I won't get mad or complain etc.

Everyone knows that most fantasy leagues are RB oriented.

So Brandon Jacobs especially with Plaxico suspended should have a big game and he is the Giants red zone back and I expect him to have a ton of Td's this season.

So one can really say Jacobs for an injured Peyton Manning could benefit Neemo. Peyton isn't the same record breaking QB from 2 years ago.

Thats my pt. On paper u see Peyton Manning and u think "HOLY SHIT" he's trading Peyton Manning but in reality, Manning isn't gonna put up anywhere near his usual numbers. I expect him to do better than Anderson and Hasselback though.

Hines Ward upgrades me at WR.

Also, RB's are WAYYYYYYY more valuable than QB's in Fantasy football. There are only maybe 8-10 really great Rb's.

For instance, I am in a league and I have Kurt Warner, Carson Palmer and Bret Favre at QB

I've been trying like hell to trade Carson Palmer for a decent WR and NO ONE will trade because most QB's score similiar pts and unless u are playing in a 20 team league, The difference in Peyton Manning and Hasselback isn't HUGE.

But

I wanted to upgrade at WR but I wasn't gonna trade Jacobs straight up for a WR as I feel I would've been on the real short end of the stick. So I figure, lets throw in Hasselback/Manning and that evens it up or at least pretty close.

Baskett/Patten were basically throw ins but if u look at that, Baskett is way above Patten.

so he is losing Ward but gaining Baskett
losing Manning but gaining Jacobs and Hasselback.

honestly, Im starting to feel like maybe I made a bad deal.................

[faldor]

I don't know if I'd go that far D, it's not a bad deal for you.  But you do make some good points.  I think at this point of the season (and it's way early) the trade DOES improve D's team.  The trade MAY improve Neemo's team.  Manning, IMO, isn't a loss at all this year for Neemo.  Rivers might outscore him this year.  He's certainly off to a great start.  Of course Manning is a big improvement over Anderson, but I refuse to pronounce Hasselbeck dead (probably because I have him on one team).  He had similar stats than Peyton last year and when he gets his weapons back I see no reason why he can't come close again.  So it may not be THAT much of an improvement for D at QB.  Jacobs isn't a top tier RB, but really how many top tier RB's are there these days?  LT, AP, Gore, Barber, Westbrook.  I may have missed some but after that it's pretty much a crapshoot.  Jacobs has great every down and goal line back potential, but the Giants have 3 very good RB's so they like to spread it out.  He could easily equal Hines Ward's numbers this year.

[Neemo]

honestly, Im starting to feel like maybe I made a bad deal.................

no doubt.....but fuck it i agreed to it so i'd like to see the trade go through...if it doesnt then so be it .... i'll try a new deal next week when one of qb's arent on a bye week...its not like my RB will be upgraded this week anyway since NYG are also on a bye week

[gilee7]

When I first saw the trade, I immediately thought D was getting the better deal. However, the trade is fair; it benefits both teams, which is the whole point of trades. I see no problem with it.

[D]

Thanks guys.

Like Faldor said, Neemo has Philip Rivers who will outscore Manning this year, so basically he has Peyton Manning rotting on the bench when he could trade him for an area he needs.

with Me, I need a QB as Anderson hasn't panned out and I do think Hasselback is good but I DESPERATELY need WR help.

With Ward and Houzmenzadah *SP* I feel i have a good WR corps now. I still have Westbrook and Lendale White, plus McClain,Pierre and Deuce should shoulder some of my loss I am hoping.

So I traded a RB for something I needed, Neemo traded a QB/WR for something he really needed.

[Axl4Prez2004]

I just meant that, i have integrity in fantasy games and if the majorty feels it isn't fair, I won't get mad or complain etc.

Everyone knows that most fantasy leagues are RB oriented.

So Brandon Jacobs especially with Plaxico suspended should have a big game and he is the Giants red zone back and I expect him to have a ton of Td's this season.

So one can really say Jacobs for an injured Peyton Manning could benefit Neemo. Peyton isn't the same record breaking QB from 2 years ago.

Thats my pt. On paper u see Peyton Manning and u think "HOLY SHIT" he's trading Peyton Manning but in reality, Manning isn't gonna put up anywhere near his usual numbers. I expect him to do better than Anderson and Hasselback though.

Hines Ward upgrades me at WR.

Also, RB's are WAYYYYYYY more valuable than QB's in Fantasy football. There are only maybe 8-10 really great Rb's.

For instance, I am in a league and I have Kurt Warner, Carson Palmer and Bret Favre at QB

I've been trying like hell to trade Carson Palmer for a decent WR and NO ONE will trade because most QB's score similiar pts and unless u are playing in a 20 team league, The difference in Peyton Manning and Hasselback isn't HUGE.

But

I wanted to upgrade at WR but I wasn't gonna trade Jacobs straight up for a WR as I feel I would've been on the real short end of the stick. So I figure, lets throw in Hasselback/Manning and that evens it up or at least pretty close.

Baskett/Patten were basically throw ins but if u look at that, Baskett is way above Patten.

so he is losing Ward but gaining Baskett
losing Manning but gaining Jacobs and Hasselback.

honestly, Im starting to feel like maybe I made a bad deal.................

I think an overwhelming majority of seasoned fantasy football owners would agree D is getting the better end of this deal.

btw, a "top-tier" or "stud" running back isn't going to be in a rbbc (running back by committee).  Jacobs is an above average 2nd tier back who is part of a committee. 

Now, like I said before, once the Colts o-line gets healthy, Addai will be a bigger force, and that will help open the passing game for Peyton.

"So one can really say Jacobs for an injured Peyton Manning could benefit Neemo."  One could also say Jessica Alba will show up naked at my door tonight lookin' for a good time, but it doesn't mean it's likely! 

Hines Ward is a definite upgrade.  He is a wr1 on a team with a very good (albeit recently banged up) qb.

CC's, Bend, PA, Lofton, and Estranged Eagles would all get a huge up-tick from Peyton or Rivers.  I wouldn't want to shape your dealings, but if you really looked at it from every possible angle Neemo I'd be happy.


btw D, "I've been trying like hell to trade Carson Palmer for a decent WR and NO ONE will trade..."     Of course they won't!  Palmer will eventually get hurt with that swiss-cheese o-line blocking for him.  Unless you find a Bengals fan you're screwed. 

btw2, Baskett will soon be fighting for the 4th receiver role in Philly after Reggie Brown and Kevin Curtis return with the emergence of DeSean Jackson. 

I still think Neemo could have done better.  The deal's not "unfair," it's just a very good deal for D and not a good deal for Neemo in my eyes...

[D]

There is a saying in the business world.

something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Neemo shopped Manning for a week and NO ONE jumped for him, WHY? Cause every team besides me have a good QB.

QB's, unless they are Brady last year or Manning/Culpepper a few years ago aren't that worthy.

WR's arent that great cause they depend on the QB.

look at Moss, he was a first round pick.

U take Brady away and he is worthless. I wouldn't trade Lendale White for him now.

Roethlisberger is injured, who knows how long Wilie Parker will be out.......... Ward may not be that big a deal.

Kevin Curtis and Brown willc ome back.... but when? week 8? week 10? Baskett has at least 5 soild weeks left and THEN neemo can drop him for Curtis or Brown etc. or even Damn.... the Seattle guy, Engram yeah.

Would u rather have No Rb's and 2 great QB's?

Or 1 great QB and one above average to Great RB?

Manning on the bench is worthless.

[Axl4Prez2004]

^ I still believe the 5 teams I listed would have regarded Peyton Manning as a significant upgrade to their squads.  A lot of team owners just aren't up on their teams...that happens.  It's unfortunate, but it happens.

 

[faldor]

^ I still believe the 5 teams I listed would have regarded Peyton Manning as a significant upgrade to their squads.  A lot of team owners just aren't up on their teams...that happens.  It's unfortunate, but it happens.

 

Most of those teams you mentioned though didn't have the RB to give up equal to Brandon Jacobs, without severely hurting their own team at that position.  gilee is about the only one who could've put together a package that wouldn't have damaged his team, but I don't know if he was interested.