2008 Fantasy Football

[sandman]

Axl4Prez, I told you to start the Bears!! Although I doubt the difference in scores was all that major, since the Bucs had a INT return for a TD.

But I bet you're kicking yourself for benching McNabb in favor of Warner. I can't blame ya, though; I would've done the same. Who could've guessed DeSean Jackson, Greg Lewis, and Baskett would all go over a hundred yards??

You'll be happy to hear that even with 2 completely bone-headed moves (starting Warner over mcNabb and the Bucs over the Bears D) it all came down to Monday night.  I was down by 1 point going in, and he had Ryan Grant, I had Adrian Peterson.  I won by 7. 

YOU of all people!?!? even i was saying mcnabb was gonna have a big year.

but you still got the win, so that's all that matters.

here's my week 1 fantasy story. i eeked out a W by 2.5 points. it was an exciting monday night.

i was down about 7 points. i had:

grant and scheffler.
vs.
crosby and vikings D.

i figured it was gonna be close. scheffler's 1 catch went for 72 yards and the Vikes D got a big fat goose egg! lucky win for me in week 1.

[Axl4Prez2004]

^ Ha!  Sandman, I knew you'd love that.     The fact that Warner lit it up last year against the niners and D-Mac was without his top 2 targets, well, it was understandable. 

...I'm just glad you finally listened to me when it came to McNabb.   

Nice win in Week One.   

[sandman]

^ Ha!  Sandman, I knew you'd love that.     The fact that Warner lit it up last year against the niners and D-Mac was without his top 2 targets, well, it was understandable. 

...I'm just glad you finally listened to me when it came to McNabb.   

Nice win in Week One.   

HA!

no, no, no, no! just to be clear. you have not convinced me about anything regarding mcnabb. i've always said he's a good QB. i just believe he has serious personality flaws that have hurt both him as a player and the team overall. i stand by that.

[Axl4Prez2004]

^ Ha!  Sandman, I knew you'd love that.     The fact that Warner lit it up last year against the niners and D-Mac was without his top 2 targets, well, it was understandable. 

...I'm just glad you finally listened to me when it came to McNabb.   

Nice win in Week One.   

HA!

no, no, no, no! just to be clear. you have not convinced me about anything regarding mcnabb. i've always said he's a good QB. i just believe he has serious personality flaws that have hurt both him as a player and the team overall. i stand by that.

Classic!  Sandman, I'm sure you are a good guy.  If you were my co-worker I'd buy you a beer after work and have you pissing your pants laughing.  That said, we'll agree to disagree as the man with the greatest td to int. ratio in the history of the NFL will demonstrate that the only thing holding him back is a recent history of injury.  Well, that and the fact he has the worst fair-weather fans in the country booing him at his home games.     ...and your post is just further evidence of Philly's lack of respect for the best quarterback the city's ever had.  You want personality flaws?  Start with guys like Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Jeff George, Aaron Brooks...McNabb is a class act on and off the field, always will be.   

Philly doesn't know how good they've had it.   

Since this is in the fantasy football section, I'll have to say it again, I'm going with the Bucs D at home against the overconfident Falcons instead of the Bears D on the road against the overconfident Panthers.  Damn! I never learn.   

PS Sandman, do you honestly think I could convince you of anything?    You're pretty damn head-strong and I highly doubt it. 

[D]

I don't feel too bad about my loss. Micheal Turner fucking steam rolled me. Who would've thought? I get Lofton twice, so I have a shot.

[gilee7]

I was actually surprised I won last weekend. Luckily my opponent had Carson Palmer, who sucked big time against the Ravens. As of right now, my opponent for this week, PaSnow, still has Jeff Garcia in his starting lineup, so it's looking like I'll get off to another 2-0 start.

I'm not liking my team anymore, though. In fantasy drafts this season, if I was unable to land Drew Brees early, then I was content to wait much later in the draft and get David Garrard. He was very solid last year, and I thought he was in store for a breakout season . . . But in week one he threw 2 INTs (he only threw 3 all of last year), and his offensive line has several injuries. So yeah, suffice it to say, I'm not too confident with him as my starting QB.

[sandman]

^ Ha!  Sandman, I knew you'd love that.     The fact that Warner lit it up last year against the niners and D-Mac was without his top 2 targets, well, it was understandable. 

...I'm just glad you finally listened to me when it came to McNabb.   

Nice win in Week One.   

HA!

no, no, no, no! just to be clear. you have not convinced me about anything regarding mcnabb. i've always said he's a good QB. i just believe he has serious personality flaws that have hurt both him as a player and the team overall. i stand by that.

Classic!  Sandman, I'm sure you are a good guy.  If you were my co-worker I'd buy you a beer after work and have you pissing your pants laughing.  That said, we'll agree to disagree as the man with the greatest td to int. ratio in the history of the NFL will demonstrate that the only thing holding him back is a recent history of injury.  Well, that and the fact he has the worst fair-weather fans in the country booing him at his home games.     ...and your post is just further evidence of Philly's lack of respect for the best quarterback the city's ever had.  You want personality flaws?  Start with guys like Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Jeff George, Aaron Brooks...McNabb is a class act on and off the field, always will be.   

Philly doesn't know how good they've had it.   

Since this is in the fantasy football section, I'll have to say it again, I'm going with the Bucs D at home against the overconfident Falcons instead of the Bears D on the road against the overconfident Panthers.  Damn! I never learn.   

PS Sandman, do you honestly think I could convince you of anything?    You're pretty damn head-strong and I highly doubt it. 

that's because you are trying to convince me that my opinion is wrong. can you convince me that buffalo wings don't taste good? no. it's an opinion. do you consider yourself "head-strong?"

i'm not a stat guy. stats make for fun regular seasons, but do nothing for me when it counts. since you love stats so much, what is McNabb's PLAYOFF TD to INT ratio. seriously, look it up and let me know.

and mcnabb is so great, but booing fans is too tough for him to handle? boo fuckin hoo.

do you even live in philly? cause it doesn't seem like you understand philly fans too well (much like mcnabb). the large majority of fans support mcnabb. he's lucky to play in a town with such die-hard fans. just check and see how many fans are in dallas monday night.

it's funny, his biggest fan in these threads doesn't even start him at home against one of the worst teams in the league. take your own advice....start him monday night!

[Axl4Prez2004]

^ Sandman, damn!  Lighten up man.  I live in the Philly media zone, down in Delaware so yeah, I get to see all the crap thrown Donovan's way.  Booing is one thing, but the "fans" in Philly are notorious and you know it. 

I watch Out of Bounds on CN8 everyday.  I listen to Howard Eskin and occasionally Angelo in the am if I can stomach him...which I usually can't.   ...and no, Philly fans only support McNabb when he's not injured.  When he was gutting it out when he was playing hurt, and when he was sidelined, he was not liked.  Hell, I know a ton of Eagles' fans who thought they'd be better off with Feeley or Kolb under center!  What a joke. 

No, stats aren't everything, but they are a reflection.  I'll post his playoff stats, but you asked for Donovan's playoff numbers, and here they are.  Donovan has amassed 21 total touchdowns, 18 passing and 3 rushing.  He threw 12 picks.  Not bad, eh?  Career completion % 58.7.  Playoff completion %? 59.4.

btw, I am starting D-Mac Monday night. 

[sandman]

^ Sandman, damn!  Lighten up man.  I live in the Philly media zone, down in Delaware so yeah, I get to see all the crap thrown Donovan's way.  Booing is one thing, but the "fans" in Philly are notorious and you know it. 

I watch Out of Bounds on CN8 everyday.  I listen to Howard Eskin and occasionally Angelo in the am if I can stomach him...which I usually can't.   ...and no, Philly fans only support McNabb when he's not injured.  When he was gutting it out when he was playing hurt, and when he was sidelined, he was not liked.  Hell, I know a ton of Eagles' fans who thought they'd be better off with Feeley or Kolb under center!  What a joke. 

No, stats aren't everything, but they are a reflection.  I'll post his playoff stats, but you asked for Donovan's playoff numbers, and here they are.  Donovan has amassed 21 total touchdowns, 18 passing and 3 rushing.  He threw 12 picks.  Not bad, eh?  Career completion % 58.7.  Playoff completion %? 59.4.

btw, I am starting D-Mac Monday night. 

so you base your judgement on a bunch of meat-head callers that call WIP every week. or a few drunk assholes at the game on sunday. the large majority of fans like mcnabb.

so that's 18 TDs to 12 INTs. not good at all.

here's an article in today's paper written by one of the top sports writers in philly. this reflects the way philly feels about mcnabb.

Rich Hofmann: Eagles' success always adds up to 5
By Rich Hofmann
Philadelphia Daily News

Daily News Sports Columnist

ALL EYES on 5, still.
Oh, Brian Westbrook makes for a fabulous distraction. And DeSean Jackson, the new No. 10, is now getting noticed, too. Somebody e-mailed the other day and suggested that the Donovan McNabb-to-Jackson connection should be nicknamed "5-and-Dime," which seems about right.

Just remember that 5 comes first.

It is McNabb's injury history that has ruled this team the last few seasons, just as it was his consistent excellence that fueled them for so long before that. Yes, yes, there are 22 starters and it is a team game - but there is no getting around this. This has never been about the wide receivers, not Terrell Owens, not any of them. The Eagles' story is McNabb's story - this year, last year, all years.

The simplicity of it is off-putting sometimes. Twenty-two players, lots of moving parts, there has to be more to it, right? Well, not really. Assuming reasonable offensive-line play - a big assumption, yes, but one that applies to every team, not just the Eagles - and assuming reasonable talent all around, the NFL is a quarterback's league and an NFL team's destiny is the quarterback's destiny. And that's it.

It is why all of this talk about T.O. and what might have been is just that - talk.

The topic is a staple during Dallas week anymore, like the Bounty Bowl used to be in prior years and like Joe Scarpati was in a time before that (ask your grandfather). It plays into all of the popular local story lines - huge player ego, crazy agent, management confrontation, McNabb bashing, wide-receiver talent gap, all of it. If Owens hadn't come here, we would have had to invent him just for conversational purposes.

But the Eagles would not have won one more game in 2005 had T.O. not been suspended in the ninth week of the season for conduct unbecoming a Philadelphian, or whatever they called his transgression. Not as long as the sports hernia and Mike McMahon were still the sports hernia and Mike McMahon.

The Eagles would not have won one more game in 2006 had Owens not shipped out to Dallas, and they certainly would not have won one more playoff game. Because, you know, Jeff Garcia would never have come here as a free agent if T.O. had still been on the roster, and he's the only reason the Eagles made the playoffs. And, besides, T.O. couldn't have stopped the run that night in New Orleans, either.

The Eagles might have, maybe, won an extra game last season if Owens had been around. If that happened, they would have sneaked into the last playoff spot in the NFC with a 9-7 record. All hail.

For this, we are supposed to be wistful?

Misty-eyed?

Mournful?

This has always been about McNabb. In recent years, it has been about his injuries and his caution with the football. Between the sports hernia and the major knee surgery, he lost something - not his nerve, necessarily, but his knack for gauging risk and reward. He just wouldn't throw it into the tight spots for fear of the ball being intercepted, neutering his wideouts and the red-zone offense in the process.

It played to the great Philadelphia chorus, which sings an endless loop of the we-have-no-wideouts blues. People said nobody was ever open, that the receivers weren't good enough, and it just wasn't true - and Garcia and A.J. Feeley proved it every time they played in relief.

It has always been about McNabb and his unwillingness to throw the ball. It is why the passes last week to Jackson were so significant - allowing a rookie to fight for possession rather than waiting for him to come clear was just an enormous step.

Now, McNabb has said it himself:

"My thing, this year, is the fact that I'm trying to give these guys an opportunity to make plays. I thought, earlier in my career, maybe at times I would have held the ball and tried to give them an opportunity to create separation when it didn't happen or whatever it may be. But now, it's getting the ball out of my hands and making them make plays for me."

Optimists will say, "Hallelujah." Pessimists will say, "What took you so long?" Whatever.

These are the most important words that McNabb has spoken in years. In many ways, this is the most meaningful thing he has said since that night in Washington, after T.O. was suspended in 2005, when he stood up after a loss to the Redskins in which the Eagles scored only 10 points and said, "Obviously it is tough losing a guy of his caliber, his ability, but I think we might be better off."

Like that, this is a bolt from nowhere. It changes everything. *

[D]

I hate philly with a passion but I must admit. The things McNabb accomplishes with those junior varsity receivers is outrageous.

If this guy had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne or Randy Moss, he'd be considered one of the best ever probably.

[gilee7]

The things McNabb accomplishes with those junior varsity receivers is outrageous.

If this guy had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne or Randy Moss, he'd be considered one of the best ever probably.

Agreed. I'd like to see Peyton Manning make it to 4 straight NFC Championship games with only James Thrash, Todd Pinkston, and Freddie Mitchell to throw to.

I think I'll probably always look back on McNabb's career and think "what if?" He's already had an amazing career, but what if he had managed to stay healthy these last few years? What if he had had legitimate WRs during those 4-straight NFC Championship appearances?? How different would things be?

[sandman]

not to beat a dead horse and take over this thread with another stupid discussion on mcnabb, BUT

he had a great WR in TO in 2004. and it was his best regular season of his career. so there is some validity to that statement....

BUT TO worked his ass off to be able to play in the SB. d-mac threw 3 INTs, and threw up on the field against a Pats team that was primed to be beat. TO had an MVP-like performance. then D-mac ripped TO a couple times when talking to the media. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

not to beat a dead horse

That's alright, yes, you are.  It's okay. 

D and Gilee make excellent points.  McNabb has had (and has) nothing at wideout.  Zilch.  Damn!  Did you watch the game last Sunday?  LJ Smith dropped 3 friggin balls...at least. 

I give all the props in the world to T.O.'s talent level...but if you want to make Donovan out to be the bad guy, you're insane.  T.O. laid the gauntlet down dissing McNabb first.  It was totally low-class and Donovan fought back.  Terrell Owens was pissed because of money pure and simple.  He wanted more and the Eagles' organization didn't agree.  T.O. is a child.  D-Mac is a man...who just happens to be very underappreciated in Philly.  I've given you the freaking poll #'s (not verified by Shadows7xxx though, must be generated by the liberal media eh?  ) at one point 80% of Philly fans wanted Feeley or Detmer in there over McNabb. 

btw, "there is some validity to that statement"   If McNabb had Harrison/Wayne like Peyton, D is right, he'd be considered one of the greatest of all-time.
Gilee said it best, "I'd like to see Peyton Manning make it to 4 straight NFC Championship games with only James Thrash, Todd Pinkston, and Freddie Mitchell to throw to."

...but I think he misspelled James Trash's name though. 

[D]

Mcnabb did start it in a way though Axl4prez when he said "We don't need T.O to win"

u don't say that about someone like T.O.

He said "We got here without him referring to the superbowl etc.

I think he was a bit jealous.

[gilee7]

I bet both McNabb and Owens wish they had set aside their differences and stuck together. They've both talked about how great they made each other, what a special combo they were. Hindsight's 20/20, I guess.

[sandman]

mcnabb took cheap shots at Owens twice in the media. TO is crazy - he's a flamboyant WR. you don't criticize him on ESPN. mcnabb was jealous of the fans love for him. that's why he said...

"Obviously it is tough losing a guy of his caliber, his ability, but I think we might be better off."

he let his personal feelings get in the way of the team's best interests.

and to be considered one of the best of all time, you need to win a SB. or at least perform well in the playoffs. mcnabb hasn't done either. also, Brady proved you don't need all-star WRs to be one of the best of all time. he never had the stats, he just won football games (until last year).

[faldor]

mcnabb took cheap shots at Owens twice in the media. TO is crazy - he's a flamboyant WR. you don't criticize him on ESPN. mcnabb was jealous of the fans love for him. that's why he said...

"Obviously it is tough losing a guy of his caliber, his ability, but I think we might be better off."

he let his personal feelings get in the way of the team's best interests.

and to be considered one of the best of all time, you need to win a SB. or at least perform well in the playoffs. mcnabb hasn't done either. also, Brady proved you don't need all-star WRs to be one of the best of all time. he never had the stats, he just won football games (until last year).

Good point sandman.  Brady had some less than stellar WR's at his disposal until last year.  What has Deion Branch done in Seattle since he left Brady?  David Givens?  David Patten?  I think Troy Brown was drafted in a round that doesn't even exist anymore, he was Tom's #1 guy until Branch came along. 

I think McNabb is a really good QB when healthy, but he did really seem to freeze in that Super Bowl.  Played with no urgency down the stretch.  Looked like Jason Campbell against the Giants on opening night on that last drive.

[Axl4Prez2004]

mcnabb took cheap shots at Owens twice in the media. TO is crazy - he's a flamboyant WR. you don't criticize him on ESPN. mcnabb was jealous of the fans love for him. that's why he said...

"Obviously it is tough losing a guy of his caliber, his ability, but I think we might be better off."

he let his personal feelings get in the way of the team's best interests.

and to be considered one of the best of all time, you need to win a SB. or at least perform well in the playoffs. mcnabb hasn't done either. also, Brady proved you don't need all-star WRs to be one of the best of all time. he never had the stats, he just won football games (until last year).

   Just something for ya to ponder.  Which qb in the playoffs would you rather have?
QB A:  18td, 12int, 59.4% completion %. 7-5 team record. 1 Super Bowl loss(3td, 3ints)
QB B:  32td, 24int, 56% completion %.  8-10 team record. 1 Super Bowl loss(1td, 2ints)

btw, quarterback B has no rings..."to be considered one of the best of all time, you need to win a SB. or at least perform well in the playoffs."  Really?  I always pegged quarterback B as one of the all-time greats...that's Dan Marino.   (who btw had all-pro receivers, remember Duper and Clayton?)

On the T.O. soap opera, sorry, T.O. trashed Donovan first.  I will agree that after that happened, Donovan shouldn't have lowered himself to the child's level.  McNabb wasn't jealous, he just wished he had a wr that wasn't so immature.

...and btw, Brady and Montana are the greatest qb's ever.  I give the edge to Brady because for the majority of those years he, like Donovan, had dog-shit at the wr position.  To try and say, just because Brady did it with shit receivers, and Donovan couldn't, doesn't take a damn thing away from Donovan, it elevates Brady.  Give Peyton Manning Pinkston and Trash, and I guaran-fucking-tee he doesn't have a ring.  Same goes for Eli.  

 

[D]

Ok, I am littering this section with more football discussion but oh well


IF matt Cassel were to win the Super Bowl this year, does that tarnish Tom Brady's legacy?

[faldor]

Ok, I am littering this section with more football discussion but oh well


IF matt Cassel were to win the Super Bowl this year, does that tarnish Tom Brady's legacy?

No, I think it would enhance Belichick's.  You can't take away what Brady has done.  But I'm sure people would say "I told you so".  Up until 3 or 4 years ago people called Brady a system quarterback, it wasn't until recently that he was given the respect he deserved.  So some people may revert back to their original thoughts.  IF they won with Cassel though I would think it'd be in much different ways than they did with Brady.  Great defense, solid combination of run/pass.  Now if Cassel were to go out and break Tom's single season TD record.  Then, we may have an argument.