US Quality of Health Care vs. Canada Quality of Health Care

[Smoking Guns]

This isn't about which is cheaper, but which has better health care over all.  Here is a link to a good debate worth reading from people that have lived in both countries.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2000/0003.gladwellgopnik.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

It talks about wait times and lack of doctors and difficulty finding a doctor.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Great question! 

"Which is better?..." (keep in mind, affordability has nothing to do with this question, right?)   

[Lisa]

Canada hands down...there is no comparison

you can't lump Canada as a whole because some provinces have different troubles in different areas concerning wait times, doctor availability etc...the actual size of the province and its populations very greatly and what may work for Ontario may not work for Manitoba or British Columbia. I lived in the US for 5 yrs and I can honestly say that the US does not take care of it's inhabitants as Canda, on the whole, cares for theirs. Please don't get me started on my mother's quituple bypass again or my recent broken leg extravganza but I can assure you all again that top notch,quality care was provided, free of charge. Yes we have to pay for prescriptions, but the people who cannot afford it, social assistance takes care of it for you...or 75% of people if not more have standard health benefits package where they work or you can also, like the US purchase personal health coverage to pay for drugs,eyeglasses and such.

[Smoking Guns]

Great question! 

"Which is better?..." (keep in mind, affordability has nothing to do with this question, right?)   

If its cheap and sux, who wants that.  Lots of people in the US have subsized health care like Canada.  The focus is on Quality, after we determine that, then we can talk quality vs. cost.  Its like saying and Epiphone looks like a Les Paul, so must be the same and its a lot cheaper...  We know the Gibson is better quality usually, but costs a lot more.

[Lisa]

Great question! 

"Which is better?..." (keep in mind, affordability has nothing to do with this question, right?)   

If its cheap and sux, who wants that.  Lots of people in the US have subsized health care like Canada.  The focus is on Quality, after we determine that, then we can talk quality vs. cost.  Its like saying and Epiphone looks like a Les Paul, so must be the same and its a lot cheaper...  We know the Gibson is better quality usually, but costs a lot more.

you are incorrect.. it is not subsidized health care in Canada.. it is free and equal care. It doesn't fucking matter if you have a penny to your name or a millionaire, you get the same level of health care. Tell me what kind of shape would YOUR family be in, even with health insurance, if your mother spent 12 weeks in hospital leading up to surgery, a quintuple bypass, ensuing care afterwards in one of the leading Cardiac Care centres in Canada,with world class Cardiologists...not to mention kidney failure and dialysis,kidney specialists and testing, and then a couple months down the road your break your leg, dislocate your ankle 3 surgeries on it,physiotherapy, blood clot, numerous bloodwork and drug therapy and a father with a heart attack and then angioplasty? not to mention the extended hospital stays with all 3? I can tell you where we are..fucking healthy and not a penny out of pocket. So don't talk about things you do not know..subsidized health care, please

[Smoking Guns]

Great question! 

"Which is better?..." (keep in mind, affordability has nothing to do with this question, right?)   

If its cheap and sux, who wants that.  Lots of people in the US have subsized health care like Canada.  The focus is on Quality, after we determine that, then we can talk quality vs. cost.  Its like saying and Epiphone looks like a Les Paul, so must be the same and its a lot cheaper...  We know the Gibson is better quality usually, but costs a lot more.

you are incorrect.. it is not subsidized health care in Canada.. it is free and equal care. It doesn't fucking matter if you have a penny to your name or a millionaire, you get the same level of health care. Tell me what kind of shape would YOUR family be in, even with health insurance, if your mother spent 12 weeks in hospital leading up to surgery, a quintuple bypass, ensuing care afterwards in one of the leading Cardiac Care centres in Canada,with world class Cardiologists...not to mention kidney failure and dialysis,kidney specialists and testing, and then a couple months down the road your break your leg, dislocate your ankle 3 surgeries on it,physiotherapy, blood clot, numerous bloodwork and drug therapy and a father with a heart attack and then angioplasty? not to mention the extended hospital stays with all 3? I can tell you where we are..fucking healthy and not a penny out of pocket. So don't talk about things you do not know..subsidized health care, please

Lisa, it is subsidized.  The Gov't subsidizes it.  How do you think the doctor gets paid.  If its not from you directly, its subsidized.  Look, in the US, we subsidize farmers to grow crops in the fucking desert.  It just means with out the subsidation, you could't get the medical care.  Its not a bad thing, its just how it works. 

[Lisa]

ok..that is not what I thought you meant. Here it is called OHIP and everyone has it.So, yes, you are correct in a sense, the governement pays for it...but that extends to just basic health care as well..if you have a sore throat and go to the doctor, you still do not pay for it. It is like France but not quite so posh because it does not extend to dental. BUT if in fact you can't afford a dentist or need dental work for your children, the government pays for that as well. If you do not have dental and make below the poverty level, which Ibelieve is somewhere near $22 000, you still can get free dental..in Ontario anyway. I worked two jobs and was a divorced mum when my kids were small and I never paid a cent for any of our dental for over 12 years. I lived and made many friends when I lived in PA and NY state and I never felt so bad when I knew of people who had sick kids or they themselves were sick and didn't go to the doctor because they couldn't afford it. As a Canadian citizen if I required health care while living in the states, especially Ny state, I drove home to Niagara and got it for free...and we had health care insurance in the US! I just feel quite strongly about this and I feel slightly defensive in 'arguement' simply for the fact tha most of Americans have no idea how it really works and they go by what the read or hear and it doesn't pertain to every Province in Canada, especially Ontario. I grew up in this fine country and I can say without a shadow of a doubt, and I may be a lucky one but no one I have ever known or know now has ever waited for essential service or testing or any kind of health care service including family doctor and I am 40! pretty good track record if you ask me. Sorry if I miss understood you

[Smoking Guns]

Lisa, its cool.  I actually would like to here what you have said.  You may want to read my first link, he has two people that lived in France and Canada and US.  Its a good read to see what they say. One guy says what you says, the other says opposite. 

[Lisa]

I suppose it depends where you live in Canada...I promise to read the links by tomorrow

[lynn1961]

I'm a US citizen.

The thing is, I know many people who have no health insurance at all, can't afford it, and don't qualify for government help (that 16% in Wiki was in 2006, and I'd imagine the percentage is higher now - we could be possibly looking at close to 1/4 of American citizens who do not have health insurance).  They work lower income jobs, but make just enough so that they do not qualify for help.  Health care will be one of the last things they'll have money available for.  Even if you do qualify for help, it can be a pain in the ass, in many cases, because you have to submit proof of income on a regular basis.   

And health insurance is so expensive.  Plus, if you have pre-existing conditions, most insurance companies won't deal with you. 

Even with good health insurance, the mental health care part of it sucks.  It's no wonder why there's so many people with mental health problems roaming the streets.   

The health system, in America, sucks, and something needs to change.   

[Smoking Guns]

I'm a US citizen.

The thing is, I know many people who have no health insurance at all, can't afford it, and don't qualify for government help (that 16% in Wiki was in 2006, and I'd imagine the percentage is higher now - we could be possibly looking at close to 1/4 of American citizens who do not have health insurance).  They work lower income jobs, but make just enough so that they do not qualify for help.  Health care will be one of the last things they'll have money available for.  Even if you do qualify for help, it can be a pain in the ass, in many cases, because you have to submit proof of income on a regular basis.   

And health insurance is so expensive.  Plus, if you have pre-existing conditions, most insurance companies won't deal with you. 

Even with good health insurance, the mental health care part of it sucks.  It's no wonder why there's so many people with mental health problems roaming the streets.   

The health system, in America, sucks, and something needs to change.   

Agreed.

[lynn1961]

Which is why the US needs universal health care.  According to Wiki (which is sometimes suspect, but I'll go with it), life expectancy is longer in Canada and infant mortality is lower.   That says something, to me, about possible quality of care.   

Wait time?  I live in America, and know that if I go to the local ER, unless I'm having life-threatening symptoms - I'm going to wait.  Waiting 4 hrs or more in the ER, for non life-threatening things, is normal.  Waiting to get into a specialist is often a month or more.  So what's the difference?  We wait, anyway. 

 

 

[judaskennedy]

im canadian, if i have no outside insurance through work or anything,  here's how it pretty much is...

if i got hit by a car tomorrow-  i would get scraped off the street and taken into a hospitol and they would save my life free of charge. (exept the ambulance bill)

where i guess in the states if i got hit by a car with no inusance?  im assuming the amblulance would take me to the hospitol where they would do nothing? and of course the ambulance bill.

[Sober_times]

im canadian, if i have no outside insurance through work or anything,  here's how it pretty much is...

if i got hit by a car tomorrow-  i would get scraped off the street and taken into a hospitol and they would save my life free of charge. (exept the ambulance bill)

where i guess in the states if i got hit by a car with no inusance?  im assuming the amblulance would take me to the hospitol where they would do nothing? and of course the ambulance bill.

Its illegal in the u.s for a hospital to not give care, especially immediate life-threatening situations. However, beyond immediate life-threatening and other special cases the degree of the care you can recieve depends on if you, medicaid or similar thing, or your insurance company will pay for it.

In the case of the situation you described they would save your life and than charge you thousands upon thousands of dollars for doing it.

In a canada to usa comparison you have to factor in cost because U.S. will not treat for certain things or provide care if you cannot pay for it. The richest people in the U.S. get the best care they can get because they can pay for it. However those without insurance or those millions with insurance that get fucked by their insurance companies (i know from personal experience) can only get so much done. 

[judaskennedy]

sucks to be you america

[SLCPUNK]

where i guess in the states if i got hit by a car with no inusance?  im assuming the amblulance would take me to the hospitol where they would do nothing? and of course the ambulance bill.

I think most hospitals would take an emergency, but if it's a non emergency, they can and will turn you away.

However, if you were lucky enough to survive a car accident, you'd easily be stuck with bills totaling thousands, some easily get up to 100k. If you are unable to pay them, they will just place a judgment against you, ruining your credit, and depending on the state, could possibly garnish your wages, tax returns, put liens against any assets, and even your bank accounts.

The flip side to that coin, is that you can have insurance, and they'll still deny the claim, make you fight it for months, and still leave you owing thousands in medical bills when it's all over.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

where i guess in the states if i got hit by a car with no inusance?  im assuming the amblulance would take me to the hospitol where they would do nothing? and of course the ambulance bill.

I think most hospitals would take an emergency, but if it's a non emergency, they can and will turn you away.

Not even, dude.  There have been many instances where patients have bled to the death in the waiting room.  The only attention she received was from the janitor who had to clean up the mess.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050

[SLCPUNK]

That's fucked up.

[sandman]

there's plenty of horror stories in both Canada and the U.S.

both need fixing. neither has the ideal set-up.

[pilferk]

I think most hospitals would take an emergency, but if it's a non emergency, they can and will turn you away.

Depends on the hospital.

You're right in that, if it's  PRIVATE hospital they can refuse treatment for non-emergent cases.  For emergent cases, they have to stabalize the patient, but can then transfer them.

If it's a PUBLIC hospital or a non-profit, you can't turn anyone away, regardless of their ability to pay.

Some of the BEST hospitals (like, for example, my workplace) are actually non-profit hospitals OR public hospitals.

However, if you were lucky enough to survive a car accident, you'd easily be stuck with bills totaling thousands, some easily get up to 100k. If you are unable to pay them, they will just place a judgment against you, ruining your credit, and depending on the state, could possibly garnish your wages, tax returns, put liens against any assets, and even your bank accounts.

That largely depends on the hospital, too.

They have the option to do that.  But there is LOTS of access to what we call "free bed care", too.  I will say...the trick is asking for access to it (or having a family member ask for access to it) while you're still in the hospital.  And before you make the point....I agree it's not the BEST time for someone to have to make decisions regarding finances.   You're pretty preocupied with patient care...either yours or your loved one's.  The system sucks...and it can be just as cut throat and heartless as you depict.  But it doesn't always HAVE to be.

And also realize that one of the reasons hospitals are often so aggressive in their collection efforts is because they have to be.  With what we get from government programs (and with the aging population and those earning under the poverty level being 2 pretty large population sects...a good sized % of our patients fall into one of those categories), we simply couldn't pay the bills.  And we're a NON-PROFIT.  The system actually screws the institutions almost as much as it screws the patients.  The doctors fair a bit better...but with Malpractice insurance rates so high, not MUCH better.  The real winners in all this are the HMO's....

The flip side to that coin, is that you can have insurance, and they'll still deny the claim, make you fight it for months, and still leave you owing thousands in medical bills when it's all over.

BINGO!