Is it possible.....

[russtcb]

I don't see how that could help him, especially if you're a promoter for one of those venues. Riots, cancellations, late showings aren't going to help them in that regaurd.

And if you are a casual, to new fan, not a die hard, would you run the risk of going to a show that was an hour or 2 hours away and you had work the next morning and you might run into a last second cancellation or a riot? Also, would you let your kid go to one?

I know that if you have responsibilites like a job and family you're bashed around here if you complain about how late the band goes on, but that's not going to help them either.

It's not a mystique anymore. It's a liability.

The only thing that bothers me about this whole argument is that it's moot. The band have made it clear that they will not be touring again until there is an album to tour for.

I personally think that sucks, but honestly I think the fanbase got what it asked for. People sat on  these forums and bitched, bitched, bitched about: setlists, no album, venues being half full, leaks not being allowed on the radio, etc, etc. So all of it stopped.

So here we are, completely GNR-less until something happens on the album. For me personally, I'd have rather seen my favorite band out there playing wherever they want to play, playing whatever songs they want to play until they don't want to anymore.

But now, instead of something we get nothing until the albums out. Either way people are gonna bitch so GNR doesn't really win, but to me seeing your favorite band is more of a win then forcing them to not want to play for you.

I'm not attacking you personally mID, in fact I think you've made alot of very valid points. I'm just trying to point out that not only is an argument like this moot, it is that way because the bands own fanbase wouldn't shut up until it was.

[Snafu]

The only thing that bothers me about this whole argument is that it's moot. The band have made it clear that they will not be touring again until there is an album to tour for.

Has the band ever actually said that they won't tour again until the album is out?

I'm just trying to point out that not only is an argument like this moot, it is that way because the bands own fanbase wouldn't shut up until it was.

I don't think the fanbase is asking too much by wanting to see some new material from a new band. They've already toured in 2002, 2006, and 2007 playing GN'R back catalogue. It's time to step it up a bit and start playing all this "mindblowing" material we keep hearing so much about.

[misterID]

No offense taken, dude

I have a bit of a different perspective on this. There really wouldn't have been the problem of bitching if it weren't for fans, not the band, who decided to make a flame war out of it, with their school girl crush mentality.

Like this thread, my argument was not intended to critisize the band, just pointing out certain things... And it was my fault that I left myself get baited into a lame argument, and I ended up coming down hard on them, which was not my intention. I'm just not living in a dream world here.

It sucks that the band would read this and seem like I was slagging them, which I'm not, I'm just arguing with silly people on a silly point to a silly question, who choose to ignore the reality of a situation.

I can see your point that they wouldn't want to play for people, but honestly, it wasn't the fans who put them in this position, either.

And if it wasn't for our "bitching" do you honestly think we would have got the number of updates that we did?

[jarmo]

U2 first received Grammy Awards for the The Joshua Tree in 1988, and have won 22 in total since

If POP didn't recieve a grammy nomination, then its my mistake. But I don't think it matters 

Fair enough.

Did those European tours mean they toured by themselves? I don't remember that

Yes, they headlined their own tour. End of May until end of July 2006.

They headlined major festivals like the Download Festival, Rock In Rio and Roskilde.

They sold out arenas in minutes.


I guess it's easy to forget and remember 2002 instead...... There were no riots and the crowds loved GN'R.

Easy to disregard that kind of things.

You still don't understand. New York is a big market WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SMALL MARKETS on a tour. You know? Like how the top stories of venues were blocked off because half the venue was empty?

So you chose to exclude the ones they did great in in order to  paint your picture. Ok.

You still didn't address the fact that THEY ADDED shows in certain big markets compared to 2002.



Does Portland, ME usually get visits by major arena tours?

Okay, Jarmo, answer one question: Does the band know for a fact if their guitarist is still in the band? If your kid is missing, and you don't know where they're at, you're not going to assume the best.

Everybody knows where he's at.

If you read the update regarding Robin, you'd understand the situation instead of worrying about it. 





/jarmo

[misterID]

Jarmo, just read. I did not disreguard their success in New York. For the umpteenth time, THEY ARE VERY SUCCESSFUL IN BIG MARKETS.

Again, I said I did not know how tours went outside the US. I even asked you about it because I didn't know. How did I disregaurd their success?

I'm not getting into the Robin argument. And yes, there is reason to be worried.

[jarmo]

Jarmo, just read. I did not disreguard their success in New York. For the umpteenth time, THEY ARE VERY SUCCESSFUL IN BIG MARKETS.

So they could play 40 shows, have several sold out ones and you'd focus on the ones in Iowa or Idaho!

 

Again, I said I did not know how tours went outside the US. I even asked you about it because I didn't know. How did I disregaurd their success?

So you are in the dark about the 2006 and 2007 tours?

It's reality, they happened. 





/jarmo

[misterID]

For the love of God...

Those small markets are the majority of a national tour.

Maybe they should just tour New York from now on?

[jarmo]

For the love of God...

Those small markets are the majority of a national tour.

Everything outside NYC is a small market? 




They didn't do as bad as you like to remember in every city outside NYC.

As I asked you, do major arena tours visit Portland, ME? Huntington, WV?

I'm just asking you.



Sorry, just kinda hard to take you seriously after your personal attacks against me.




/jarmo

[misterID]

When have I personally attacked you? I've definitely made come back remarks after you laid quite a few insults at me, and made up shit about me insulting the band, like they suck, more than a few times.  The worst I ever said about you was that you were delusional and you twisted that into an insult. I have never come out and insulted you.

In 2006 they absoloutely went the right route by playing smaller venues in the small markets. But they didn't fill them like they do in big markets. That is a problem. And I think co-headlining a tour in those markets with a popular band and, uh... releasing a kick ass single would help too 

As I asked you, do major arena tours visit Portland, ME? Huntington, WV

It really depends on the act, to be honest.

[jarmo]

When have I personally attacked you?

you and this board since about 2003-2004 have been THE most damaging thing to happen to GNR.

I take that as an insult.

 

It's hard to take you seriously after something like that. And yet I'm apparently the delusional one.....

It really depends on the act, to be honest.

Maybe that explains the weaker ticket sales then?

Because the markets are small?




/jarmo

[misterID]

Dude, that came after a long time of your insults. And I was pointing out how you've been treating fans. Like my argument here... It was turned into what we have now because of how you were putting words in my mouth when I didn't agree with you, like that I said the band sucked, when I never said that. Your criteria of what a fan is has hurt the band, imo. Look how many fans have dropped this board? Real new line up fans who love the band. Fans who are now bitter because of the treatment they received. I stand by that. And it wasn't an insult.

Well, smaller markets being a weakness to them has been my point all along. They're not a band, right now, that brings out droves of people in those markets.

[leatherebel]

Please, stop dissing on the 2002 tour especially if you didn't see any shows on it!
Judging by the premature ending, one can easily label the whole tour a disaster. However, some of the shows that were played were pretty damn good. Many places actually sold out better or faster than the 2006 tour - MSG sold out in 15 min in 2002, while it took days in 2006, Allstate was absolutely oversold with seats behind the stage sold in 2002, It wasn't even 100% sold although close in 2006. This is in no way to mean the 2002 tour was better performance or sales-wise. However, not giving any credit to the 2002 shows and label them a disaster is pretty short-sighted.

[slashisvr]

Please, stop dissing on the 2002 tour especially if you didn't see any shows on it!
Judging by the premature ending, one can easily label the whole tour a disaster. However, some of the shows that were played were pretty damn good. Many places actually sold out better or faster than the 2006 tour - MSG sold out in 15 min in 2002, while it took days in 2006, Allstate was absolutely oversold with seats behind the stage sold in 2002, It wasn't even 100% sold although close in 2006. This is in no way to mean the 2002 tour was better performance or sales-wise. However, not giving any credit to the 2002 shows and label them a disaster is pretty short-sighted.

VMAs 02 was an amazing show, bar axls voice

[jarmo]

Your criteria of what a fan is has hurt the band, imo. Look how many fans have dropped this board? Real new line up fans who love the band. Fans who are now bitter because of the treatment they received. I stand by that. And it wasn't an insult.

As I said, apparently I'm the delusional one.

My criteria hasn't changed, it's the so called fans who refuse to change with the times. It's not 2005 anymore!

Or sometimes they turn into bitter people and demand that I welcome them here so they can keep whining.



As usual, I get blamed for saying and doing things so you and your "pals" can have another reason to dislike me.

Whatever....

Well, smaller markets being a weakness to them has been my point all along.

Really? Why didn't you say so then?

It was all about how it was a disaster. It'd would been nice to see one "BUT....." somewhere.

As I said, we have a very different way of seeing things.

I try to understand the reasons why things happen. Others are just very happy to point fingers and list "mistakes".

Many places actually sold out better or faster than the 2006 tour - MSG sold out in 15 min in 2002, while it took days in 2006,

They played across the river a few days earlier in 2006.

Plus four nights at the Hammerstein Ballroom.

So the MSG 2006 show wasn't "the return to New York" like it was in 2002.






/jarmo

[GnR-NOW]

About not selling out MSG right away in 06.  Jarmo hit it right on the head, the Meadowlands is all but 20 minutes from MSG, so that definitely took some of the crowd out of MSG right away.  Plus with 4 Hammerstein shows, and 1 acoustic appearance.  And still sold MSG out thats awesome.

[Jim Bob]

I don't think the fanbase is asking too much by wanting to see some new material from a new band. They've already toured in 2002, 2006, and 2007 playing GN'R back catalogue. It's time to step it up a bit and start playing all this "mindblowing" material we keep hearing so much about.

5-6 new songs a night is pretty good if you take a look at other bands out there.  this isn't a new band.   They are the evolution of GnR.  So of course they are going to play GnR songs from the back catalogue as they should.

[ToonGuns]

Please, stop dissing on the 2002 tour especially if you didn't see any shows on it!
Judging by the premature ending, one can easily label the whole tour a disaster. However, some of the shows that were played were pretty damn good. Many places actually sold out better or faster than the 2006 tour - MSG sold out in 15 min in 2002, while it took days in 2006, Allstate was absolutely oversold with seats behind the stage sold in 2002, It wasn't even 100% sold although close in 2006. This is in no way to mean the 2002 tour was better performance or sales-wise. However, not giving any credit to the 2002 shows and label them a disaster is pretty short-sighted.

I agree that people should stop dissing the 2002 tour. Yes it was cancelled, but the true reasons behind that we may never know, and having seen GnR live in both 2002 and 2006 I can say that the 2002 tour was just as good if not better.

[Montrealrocks]

WHen the album will come out, they will come back as the biggest rock band again.  I'm pretty sure..

[Snafu]

WHen the album will come out, they will come back as the biggest rock band again.  I'm pretty sure..

Unfortunately, that's just wishful thinking on your part, bro. It would be cool to see that kind of comeback take place, but it's very highly unlikely that will ever happen.

Duff gave a real good answer a while back when asked if he thought VR would ever have the same success as GN'R. Can't remember his exact words, but it was something to the affect of, it would never happen. They were just in the right place at the right time and the world was able to relate with them.

I'm sure Axl has the ability to release a good album, but to come back where they once were, I'm not so sure. Too much has changed and too many people are gone for that to be a realistic expectation.

[jarmo]

Duff gave a real good answer a while back when asked if he thought VR would ever have the same success as GN'R.

 

Wrong section.



Different band, different people, different songs, different album.





/jarmo