Is it possible.....

[Snafu]

I asked some friends if they'd be interested in going to a show in 2006 and "That's not the real Guns n' Roses" was the response I got. 

Talk about De Ja Vu ...

I invited a couple of old high school/college friends to go and catch a couple shows when they were in Florida in 06'. I received very similar responses from the both of them. "Is Slash going to be there?" After telling them no, they were like "it aint Guns N Roses then" and declined. I told them we could at least get drunk and see Axl. Unfortunately, that didn't impress them enough to change their minds.   

Same situation when I played them the demos last year. They acknowledged that they were ok, but they told me to throw in Appetite soon thereafter. 

GNR is a nostalgia act. Plain and simple. They're riding on the old bands cred to get them where they're at. They have nothing to stand alone on, until then, we can't even debate whether present GNR is a big act.

Pretty sad but true nonetheless. They obviously are not a "big stadium act" anymore and the chances of them ever being again - barring a reunion - is slim to none. Unfortunately for Axl, Guns N Roses were not a Megadeath or Smashing Pumpkins. Each one of the original gunners brought something unique to the table which made the band what it was. Removing 80% of that original equation most definitely will result in a different product. Hell, look at the negative impact Izzy's departure alone caused. I'm not saying Axl will not be able to release a decent album without them, but an album that will capture the world's attention like AFD and UYI. Highly unlikely.

[whiny]

Hello all.

As most of us remember, back in the early 90's GNR basically was THE band....period.  I felt like a lot of people forgot about them after lies was released.   They ruled the rock world when UYI came out, now it seems like a lot of people have forgotten about them again. 

In your opinion, with the release of CD will they again rule the music world?  I sure hope so!

yeah, they could. it has been done before: fleetwood mac for example changed their line up radically and after that they made one of the best selling albums of all time ("rumours"). to be honest, i have always wished, that cd would be a sucessfull record that fascinates a whole new generation. wearing a gnr t-shirt now makes you retro. maybe this fall people will realise that i was only ahead of the times.  

[markreed]

I'm surprised everyone classifies U2's "Pop" as a failure. In what world does a record that sells 10,000,000 copies be a failure? There was not one show on the "Pop" toru that sold under 23,000 tickets and most of the undersold venues where when they came back to play stadiums three months after the last time they played stadiums, with $100 tickets in the middle of a recession which was market saturation and I think any band would've struggled to sell tickets at that time.

U2 aren't a nostalgia act. Yes, they play old songs, but their set has at least 9 songs from the then new record in. 9 more than the recent Stones tour...

as for GNR being an nostalgia act? You can guaranatee if they didn't play WTTJ, SCON, NR, YCBM, and PC that peopel would be bitchin' to high heaven. This lineup of GNR aren't nostalgia : they play songs new and old.

[jarmo]

Same situation when I played them the demos last year. They acknowledged that they were ok, but they told me to throw in Appetite soon thereafter. 

Do they know any other GN'R records? 


Is it surprising people prefer the familiar songs?

Not at all!

Pretty sad but true nonetheless. They obviously are not a "big stadium act" anymore and the chances of them ever being again - barring a reunion - is slim to none.

Talking of nostalgia!

The same reasons you slag off the band now for being a nostalgia act, you say the only way to be successful is by going the nostalgic reunion route!

You put down the band time after time for being a nostalgia act while hoping they'd do a reunion.

That's comedy!

Unfortunately for Axl, Guns N Roses were not a Megadeath or Smashing Pumpkins. Each one of the original gunners brought something unique to the table which made the band what it was. Removing 80% of that original equation most definitely will result in a different product. Hell, look at the negative impact Izzy's departure alone caused. I'm not saying Axl will not be able to release a decent album without them, but an album that will capture the world's attention like AFD and UYI. Highly unlikely.

GN'R were bigger than any of those bands.



What you don't seem to understand, not surprising, is that Axl's not alone in the band.

He didn't just lose certain personnel, he added others!


Way to discredit a musicians in the band who are accomplished on their own.


No, you're not biased at all. 


I suggest you check out the Dead Horse section. Seems all your favorite topics to dream about are located there.





/jarmo

[Fingers]

I think personality wise, though, mainstream media will view this as as "axl" band, whereas in the mid to early 90's, there was almost an equal amount of interest in Axl and Slash somewhat-Slash could make the cover of Rolling Stone whereas  Robin Fink as lead guitarist would not-as far as songwriting, I agree and am interested to see what Tommy and Robin and so on bring, especially Tommy after hearing his solo effort, which I really liked

[BodyCount]

Yes they could!!

Look at Queen.... 50% of the band is no longer present, Freddie obviously, John is no longer part by his own choice ....

Paul rodgers took his place, personally, i HATE it... they do sell out tho... big crowds night after night, not because of new material , but because of their history..
AND positive media attention!!
New material needs yet to be proven a succes..

Main difference i think,,, GNR get close to none reviews when on tour and if they do, how many are positive?...individual members of GNR get even less media attention
in what they do.. unless it's negative or could be negative...

Back to my point...

If management gets the media of mainstream music , to back this baby up (GNR i mean) people will wonder about it, get curious , get informed and will judge for themselves and see the shows...

When CD comes out, i think it will do very well and they WILL sell out arena's, (personally i would like a small venue but well....for GNR  i hope they need to go bigger)

All it needs is POSITIVE GNR-feedback by media, fans etc etc..
Then the exact right single...(management and AXL WILL get the right one out)

Documentaries will appear on TV...

And before we know it...we'll be in sleeping bags hoping to get freakin tickets..

[Snafu]

Do they know any other GN'R records? 

I think they like 'Lies' too.  

Talking of nostalgia!

The same reasons you slag off the band now for being a nostalgia act, you say the only way to be successful is by going the nostalgic reunion route!

You put down the band time after time for being a nostalgia act while hoping they'd do a reunion.

That's comedy!

C'mon man, you can't deny the number of sold-out shows a reunion tour would result in. Weren't Guns N Roses listed as like the #3 "most wanted to reunite" band on some yahoo/msn poll last year? My biggest beef isn't the new band, it's the new band playing material written largely in part by Izzy and solos that were written by Slash. If that's all we have in store for us, absolutely - I'd rather see the original lineup playing it.

GN'R were bigger than any of those bands.

I'm not arguing that, I'm just saying unlike Pumpkins and Megadeth, where Corgan and Mustaine were the masterminds, the feeling of Guns N Roses came from multiple members, it wasn't just something that came from Axl.

What you don't seem to understand, not surprising, is that Axl's not alone in the band.

He didn't just lose certain personnel, he added others!

I'm well aware that Axl is not alone in the band. I can't recall ever saying that he was. I'm just saying that "adding" personnel does not mean that you are going to ever recapture the feeling or legacy that you once shared with other members. Hell, if I remember right, even Axl said something to that affect at the 02' VMA's. I don't think that's a hard concept to grasp.

Way to discredit a musicians in the band who are accomplished on their own.

I'm not discrediting anybody. All I'm sayin is that "accomplished" musicians don't necessarily equivilate into success. VR should be proof of that.  

[jarmo]

Do they know any other GN'R records? 

I think they like 'Lies' too. 

So GN'R has been a nostalgia act since 1988. All right.....

C'mon man, you can't deny the number of sold-out shows a reunion tour would result in. Weren't Guns N Roses listed as like the #3 "most wanted to reunite" band on some yahoo/msn poll last year? My biggest beef isn't the new band, it's the new band playing material written largely in part by Izzy and solos that were written by Slash. If that's all we have in store for us, absolutely - I'd rather see the original lineup playing it.

Matt and Gilby were playing parts written by others in 1991. I guess that wasn't a problem.

Izzy himself played with GN'R several times in 2006. He didn't seem to mind from what I saw.

Looked like he was having fun!



It's just amazing how GN'R is labeled a nostalgia act by some of you, yet you're the ones hoping for that reunion to happen. Which is like the ultimate nostalgia move any band can make!

Anything the current band has accomplished is credited to the old band.

Yet no credit is given to Axl himself or the band themselves who were the ones who were touring.

I'm not arguing that, I'm just saying unlike Pumpkins and Megadeth, where Corgan and Mustaine were the masterminds, the feeling of Guns N Roses came from multiple members, it wasn't just something that came from Axl.

Which I explained below!

What you don't seem to understand, not surprising, is that Axl's not alone in the band.

He didn't just lose certain personnel, he added others!

I'm well aware that Axl is not alone in the band. I can't recall ever saying that he was. I'm just saying that "adding" personnel does not mean that you are going to ever recapture the feeling or legacy that you once shared with other members. Hell, if I remember right, even Axl said something to that affect at the 02' VMA's. I don't think that's a hard concept to grasp.

Who said he was trying?

The question is, can GN'R become a big band again. Not whether or not he can pretend to be the old band.

There's tribute bands out there for that. Maybe you should look into hanging out at some tribute band gigs to relive that era?



Just because a team loses a couple of players doesn't mean they can't win anything ever again.



Obviously you haven't gotten over the split.

Almost 18 years ago the GN'R that made AFD stopped existing.



Many of the so called fans are always pointing out what's wrong with the band, never giving any credit to the current members.

Yet people wonder why this site isn't welcoming them with open arms.

The simple answer is: I don't really want to be surrounded by people who's only interest is putting everybody else down and whining constantly.

If you don't like GN'R in 2008, why are you here? It's that simple...




/jarmo

[misterID]

Oh wow. Now you're changing the story.

Pop was successful when it sold about one million in the US. Use Your Illusions were the fastest selling albums of all times when they were released but they were failures.

If your "you need to active" theory is correct, every band who ever played arenas and released album would still be doing it.



I think you're partly right, but it's not only about just releasing albums. If U2 had kept going in the Pop direction, their popularity possibly wouldn't have had the upswing it had later.

What...Are...You...Talking...About?

How the fuck did you get me saying the UYI albums were a failure? I SAID THEY WEREN'T FAILURES!!! I said if we went by your "POP" logic they would be failures, because they did not sell the same amount as AFD.

My "theory" requires a band to release Good Albums on a consistant basis.

Still managed to sell out Madison Square Garden even with another show across the river and having played four shows there earlier that year.

We're not talking about New York. I already said they do well in big markets, but we were talking about a tour, where the majority of shows take place in small markets that they've shown the last couple tours they don't do well in.

There is no old and new. People don't really pay that much attention. People go see them because they wanna hear GN'R songs performed live and sung by the voice of GN'R.


The whole nostalgia thing is true for the Rolling Stones, U2, Pearl Jam and even Poison! So nothing GN'R specific no matter how hard you try. All big bands sell tickets based on their past hits.

That really doesn't make any sense, but if I have to try and put together what you're trying to say...

Yes, people go to see their favorite band. But the bands you've mentioned, with the exception of Poison, stayed active and relevant, and garnered new fans in the process by doing so. Axl has totally reinvented himself and the new GNR. The new Axl is kind of a shock to the system to most fans. Where these other bands have progressed, evolved and matured gradually over several albums, GNR is just completely different in every possible way. GNR doesn't have the benefit of growing a fanbase like those bands because it was dorment for so long, and when they first came out with the new line up their reputation took some big hits and left some lingering effects. 

The new fans they've made over the years since the formation of the new band are still basing their admiration on a band that doesn't exist anymore.

GNR is not on the same level as the Stones, fanbase and clout wise. I think we can all agree on that.

Why do you have the need to try to discredit and put down the band? It's funny, it's almost like you want GN'R to prove something to you in order to have your support. I guess that's why you come across as a whiner.

You come to a GN'R board to tell us how much they suck while defending U2! I have nothing against U2, in fact I like them. But it's funny how you're prepared to defend them but with GN'R you are reluctant to give any credit whatsoever.
 

You list all kinds of reasons why people should avoid going to see GN'R, yet they managed to sell out venues and tour arenas without any radio play. People still turned up because they want to hear GN'R songs performed live.

I'm happy that people still go see GN'R and have a great time. I'm not seeing it as the disaster you are.

Where the fuck do you come up with this shit?

You made all of that up in your head, which is exactly what you did last time and why I called you delusional... and it hurt your feelings.

I'm not trying to discredit them. I'm talking in reality, a subject I know you have a tough time with. Axl has made a shitload of mistakes since the debut of this band, whether his fault or not, that's the truth. And these mistakes have contributed to why it will be very hard for him to reclaim his past glory... which is what this thread is about.

If he sells 2-3 million copies I'll consider the album a success. If the album is great, no matter what the sells are, I'll consider it a success. I want them to succeed, but I don't live in a dream world like some of you. I look at the situation and it doesn't strike me as this will be the biggest band in the world again.

I never once said they sucked. You made that shit up, like most of the false insult accusations you sling at people. I defended U2 because you made an issue out of it. I didn't.

I do defend GNR, you just make it hard to do that with your silly, defensive arguments. If you don't think the 2002 tour was a disaster then you need some help. Again, I said they do well in big markets but this band has a very hard time selling out venues in small markets.

It would be best if they co-headlined a tour which would expose the new music to even more people, and how awesome they are live. I just don't think they can have a HUGE successfu stadium/arena tour on their own right now, or when the album is released. To tour with a band like Linkin Park would really help them get over with young rock fans now. And please, spare me the LP bashing... And no, they're not my favorite band, but Right Now they are much more popular than GNR and it would help Axl reach a whole new audiance who I think would appreciate the new GNR if they were exposed to them.

And I bet Axl doesn't even care about taking over the music world again, which is what makes him awesome. Some of you are more obsessed with it than he is.

As I said, it's true for most big bands. Nothing GN'R specific at all.

There's bands who play less new songs from their new album at their shows than what GN'R did!




/jarmo

Yeah, but the majority of those people actually KNOW those new songs those bands play. A lot of fans who go to GNR shows don't.

[Snafu]

So GN'R has been a nostalgia act since 1988. All right.....

Umm.. where did I say that? All I said was I think my friends like another album besides AFD. How you construed that as me saying GN'R has been a nostalgia act since then, I have no idea? I caught a couple UYI shows in 92' and had a great fucking time. Actually, 1 of the 2 of my friends did too.

Matt and Gilby were playing parts written by others in 1991. I guess that wasn't a problem.

I preferred Steve and Izzy personally, but I wouldn't say Matt and Gilby didn't do a good job.

Izzy himself played with GN'R several times in 2006. He didn't seem to mind from what I saw.

Looked like he was having fun!

I can't say Izzy didn't enjoy himself, but what's the point? I didn't say the 2006 shows weren't fun, I just didn't see the same chemistry and energy that I saw with the 92 lineup. At the same time, I didn't see the same energy with the 92 lineup that I saw with the 87-90. Just callin it as I personally see it. That's not to say that I don't think the new band is good.  I saw them  3x in 2006. What are you getting upset about, that my friends didn't have the same interest?

It's just amazing how GN'R is labeled a nostalgia act by some of you, yet you're the ones hoping for that reunion to happen. Which is like the ultimate nostalgia move any band can make!

Bro, it's hard to argue at this current time that they don't resemble a nostalgia act. Considering 85% of their setlist is comprised of songs written by an almost entirely different band, I'm sure it's not to hard to understand how some people could feel this way.

Anything the current band has accomplished is credited to the old band.

Yet no credit is given to Axl himself or the band themselves who were the ones who were touring.

I completely disagree. I think the biggest issue most folks may have is that it's been over a decade yet we know very little about this new band. So little, we can't even say for certain that Brain or Robin is still in the band. They've done very, very little to establish themselves or to give them their own indentity. Shows that predominantly contain material written by another band, interviews that always result in "no comment" or "can't say", minimal or cryptic updates, and the biggie - no albums - all contribute greatly to this new bands lack of recognition.

[misterID]

Can I just say for the record, before my words are twisted, or attempted to be twisted into some anti GNR rhetoric, that I make this very clear:

I want GNR to rule the world again. I wish GNR ALL the success in the world. I have complete faith that Axl will pull out a monster of an album that will blow my mind.

I'm just not feeding into an unrealistic idea, or argument, that he can take over the world. The odds are against him, especially in this day in age in music. And if you want to have a real discussion on this subject you have to weigh the pros and cons and that means bringing up reasons why it will be very hard to accomplish this feet. Not to recogonize what he's really up against, you're just setting yourself up for a disappointment.

Sells don't matter. Great music does

[jarmo]

How the fuck did you get me saying the UYI albums were a failure? I SAID THEY WEREN'T FAILURES!!! I said if we went by your "POP" logic they would be failures, because they did not sell the same amount as AFD.

My "theory" requires a band to release Good Albums on a consistant basis.

Haha.

I only objected to your idea that U2 has constantly been putting out multiple platinum certified successful Grammy nominated albums.

They took a chance, it didn't go as well as they had hoped and went back to more familiar kind of songs.

I think we're talking about different things.

A band can put out an album that barely charts in the Top 10. But still goes out playing arenas. Is it a failure?

Maybe if the next release allows them to go back playing stadiums.


GN'R took a chance and put out two albums on the same day which allowed them to go play stadiums.

We're not talking about New York. I already said they do well in big markets, but we were talking about a tour, where the majority of shows take place in small markets that they've shown the last couple tours they don't do well in.

Basically the US.

Canada, Mexico and the rest of the world they do pretty damn well in.

That really doesn't make any sense, but if I have to try and put together what you're trying to say...

As I said, most general concert goers don't pay close attention to who wrote what songs and when. They want to hear the songs.

Give some fucking credit to the band and Axl will you? People still want to see him. 

You made all of that up in your head, which is exactly what you did last time and why I called you delusional... and it hurt your feelings.

Talk of delusional. You hurt my feelings?

Right....

Just because I refuse to put down the band I'm delusional. That's pretty common from people like you.

Hey, why don't you call me an ass kisser and fanboy while you at it? 

I'm not trying to discredit them. I'm talking in reality, a subject I know you have a tough time with.

I do?

Because GN'R didn't sell out some venues in Florida?


I'm pretty aware of the reality. I don't paint everything as being horrible.

The reality is, people outside of the US are far more open to GN'R than what your country seems to be.

The reality is, Axl is still a huge draw. No matter what you say.

People are still interested in what he's doing. That's reality.

The reality is, people love to hear him sing those songs. The ones who actually go to the shows don't seem to mind who's playing them.

They enjoy the show and many have been actually converted from "it's not GN'R" to actually getting what they're doing. It's not about nostalgia, it's about building a new team.

Axl has made a shitload of mistakes since the debut of this band, whether his fault or not, that's the truth. And these mistakes have contributed to why it will be very hard for him to reclaim his past glory... which is what this thread is about.

You're quick to point out all the so called mistakes and yet when they still manage to sell out venues, you're acting like it's only because "it's a big market" and due to nostalgia.


Are you gonna give them any credit for playing a bunch of shows last year even though people like you are always reminding people of the so called mistakes?

It's almost like certain so called fans are trying to make sure others don't go to the shows because "it's not the real GN'R" and "there's gonna be riots". Yet they sold out a bunch of venues! 

I do defend GNR, you just make it hard to do that with your silly, defensive arguments. If you don't think the 2002 tour was a disaster then you need some help. Again I said they do well in big markets but this band has a very hard time selling out venues in small venues.

You mean small markets?

And why are you focusing on the 2002 tour anyway?

They had tours in 2006 and 2007!

Is it more fun to focus on 2002 so you can keep going on about the riots?

It would be best if they co-headlined a tour which would expose the new music to even more people, and how awesome they are live. I just don't think they can have a HUGE successfu stadium/arena tour on their own right now, or when the album is released. To tour with a band like Linkin Park would really help them get over with young rock fans now. And please, spare me the LP bashing... And no, they're not my favorite band, but Right Now they are much more popular than GNR and it would help Axl reach a whole new audiance who I think would appreciate the new GNR if they were exposed to them.

I think things will change once the album is out.

One hit and people are suddenly aware.


Then if you go on tour with a somewhat hot new band, things will grow from there.

And I bet Axl doesn't even care about taking over the music world again, which is what makes him awesome. Some of you are more obsessed with it than he is.

What makes him awesome is his integrity.


Which is exactly why I think they can be bigger than some of you like to think.

It's as real as it gets. There's not too many people or bands around like Axl and GN'R.

Especially in an age of American Idol and fabricated pop stars.

Yeah, but the majority of those people actually KNOW those new songs those bands play. A lot of fans who go to GNR shows don't.

I've been to shows where people were waiting for "the hit".

Like Depeche Mode in 2001.

People were sitting down until Enjoy The Silence came on..... 

Umm.. where did I say that? All I said was I think my friends like another album besides AFD. How you construed that as me saying GN'R has been a nostalgia act since then, I have no idea? I caught a couple UYI shows in 92' and had a great fucking time. Actually, 1 of the 2 of my friends did too.

It was sarcasm.

They probably sold a shit load of tickets in the 90s based on people wanting to hear the AFD songs. Yet they weren't labeled a nostalgia act..... 

I preferred Steve and Izzy personally, but I wouldn't say Matt and Gilby didn't do a good job.

And the current band?

I can't say Izzy didn't enjoy himself, but what's the point? I didn't say the 2006 shows weren't fun, I just didn't see the same chemistry and energy that I saw with the 92 lineup. At the same time, I didn't see the same energy with the 92 lineup that I saw with the 87-90. Just callin it as I personally see it. That's not to say that I don't think the new band is good.  I saw them  3x in 2006. What are you getting upset about, that my friends didn't have the same interest?

Upset? You're nothing new. We've had plenty of "we want a reunion" people here over the years.

Maybe you saw what you wanted to see?

If you're looking for faults, you will find them.

Bro, it's hard to argue at this current time that they don't resemble a nostalgia act. Considering 85% of their setlist is comprised of songs written by an almost entirely different band, I'm sure it's not to hard to understand how some people could feel this way.

Different line up of the same band. 

I completely disagree. I think the biggest issue most folks may have is that it's been over a decade yet we know very little about this new band. So little, we can't even say for certain that Brain or Robin is still in the band. They've done very, very little to establish themselves or to give them their own indentity. Shows that predominantly contain material written by another band, interviews that always result in "no comment" or "can't say", minimal or cryptic updates, and the biggie - no albums - all contribute greatly to this new bands lack of recognition.

As I said, no credit but some of you are quick to point out the so called mistakes.

Can I just say for the record, before my words are twisted, or attempted to be twisted into some anti GNR rhetoric, that I make this very clear:

I want GNR to rule the world again. I wish GNR ALL the success in the world. I have complete faith that Axl will pull out a monster of an album that will blow my mind.

I wish you'd show a bit more of that optimism. 




/jarmo

[jarmo]

Oh, and I'll explain to you the difference between us.

The difference is:

You: They only sold half the tickets.
Me: Kinda cool considering the fact that people think there's gonna be riots at every show and with no new album out.

It's all about "is the glass half full or half empty?"....


But apparently I'm delusional because I refuse to have your view on things!

Maybe some of you think the ideal world is one where even the fans are turning their backs on their bands/teams etc.

It's always easy to support a winning team I guess.....




/jarmo

[misterID]

 

Jarmo, that post was just ... so you.

I never said that U2 consecutively put out multi million album, grammy nominated albums. In fact I said the opposite. But made the point that all of their albums were successful. Which you still don't get.

I admitted, I can only speak of a tour in the US.  I can't speak of their popularity anywhere else, and I didn't try to. I have no idea how a world tour would go, that weren't festivals.

Dude - I do give them credit. But you don't have to slap me in the face with a skunk to let me know it stinks. They did a smart thing by playing smaller venues the last tour than the 2002 tour. And people had an awesome time seeing them.

I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO PUT DOWN THE BAND. Have I made that clear?

I would never call you an ass kissing fan boy. Never... Delusional? Yes.

And again, I'm not dissing Axl, I'm talking about him ruling the world again.

I don't have to remind people of mistakes. People remember them pretty well. When bad things happen, and not a whole lot of good in return, its hard to look at things in a pretty light. You can ignore the bad all you want, but when the band seems to be in turmoil, like not knowing if my favorite guitarist is still in the band, or not knowing if the label is going to release the album, or <insert issue here>... I'm not going to be tip toing through the tulips.

And when they drop the album I sure it will be a big hit. And I hope they do things to help them reach more people. But ruling the world...


 

[Jim Bob]

Bro, it's hard to argue at this current time that they don't resemble a nostalgia act. Considering 85% of their setlist is comprised of songs written by an almost entirely different band, I'm sure it's not to hard to understand how some people could feel this way.

i can't stand it when people say shit like this.   They are Guns N' Roses playing Guns N' Roses songs.  As long as they do that well, who gives a shit which member wrote what.  It has nothing to do with a live performance.

[Lostrose]

The truth is, nobody will know until the albumn is released.  In my personal opinion, Yes.  I believe GnR will revolutionize the music industry for the second time, IF the albumn is released while Axl is alive. 

However, i have noted before that i don't think we will see it in Axls lifetime.  He's too much the perfectionist, constantly updating and making miniscule (<--Spelled right?) changes. 

I only hope he releases it one day.  Preferably sooner than later.

And just to keep up w/ where the thread is now, i like new GnR and new GnR songs.  They are just as good as some of the older songs.  Don't bitch about new GnR songs until the FULL albumn is released. 

Word, nugga.

[jarmo]

Jarmo, that post was just ... so you.

I never said that U2 consecutively put out multi million album, grammy nominated albums. In fact I said the opposite. But made the point that all of their albums were successful. Which you still don't get.

I guess I must've misunderstood this then:

And not only has U2 stayed active musically, but the albums they've released have been huge sellers and crictically acclaimed, not to mention each album has been nominated for a shitload of grammy's.

It just says each album but I guess you didn't mean all of them.... Right?


It'd be nice if in the future you didn't say something like "each album" when you don't mean all of them. 

I admitted, I can only speak of a tour in the US.  I can't speak of their popularity anywhere else, and I didn't try to. I have no idea how a world tour would go, that weren't festivals.

You had an European tour in 2006 and a world tour in 2007.

You could start by looking at how those went?

They did a smart thing by playing smaller venues the last tour than the 2002 tour. And people had an awesome time seeing them.

But they played many of the same venues.

More shows in several markets.

2002, NYC had one show. Not the case in 2006.....


Same thing with London, UK. 2002, one show. 2006, three.

I don't have to remind people of mistakes. People remember them pretty well. When bad things happen, and not a whole lot of good in return, its hard to look at things in a pretty light.

How come it seems like you're stuck in 2002 then? And totally ignoring what has happened since?

You can ignore the bad all you want, but when the band seems to be in turmoil, like not knowing if my favorite guitarist is still in the band, or not knowing if the label is going to release the album, or <insert issue here>... I'm not going to be tip toing through the tulips.

As I said, I'm not ignoring anything. I just choose what I focus on.


The band is in turmoil? No, they're on a break where the members are doing their own thing until the album's release is sorted.

Again, you choose to assume the worst.






/jarmo

[misterID]

U2 first received Grammy Awards for the The Joshua Tree in 1988, and have won 22 in total since

If POP didn't recieve a grammy nomination, then its my mistake. But I don't think it matters 

Did those European tours mean they toured by themselves? I don't remember that

You still don't understand. New York is a big market WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SMALL MARKETS on a tour. You know? Like how the top stories of venues were blocked off because half the venue was empty?

Hello, McFly, anybody home?

Oh, I didn't know there have been no problems with GNR since 2002...

As I said, I'm not ignoring anything. I just choose what I focus on.

You focus on things and ignore others... Which makes any point you try to make comepletely meaningless, because you do not have a balanced view of the situation. Which mean,s you can't answer the question in this thread with a real, honest answer.

The band is in turmoil? No, they're on a break where the members are doing their own thing until the album's release is sorted.

Again, you choose to assume the worst

Okay, Jarmo, answer one question: Does the band know for a fact if their guitarist is still in the band? If your kid is missing, and you don't know where they're at, you're not going to assume the best.

[ToonGuns]

New York is a big market. The majority of those shows were also played in small venues, and that strategy was very smart.

But they cannot do that in every market across the US. They cannot sell out an arena in a small market. They just can't. If they could it would be great. But even if CD is huge Axl has hurt himself by the bad publicity: Being late, cancellations, no shows, riots. Die hards will put up with his shit, new fans (and their parents) will not. And you can carry on about your no rules, traditional rock show, this isn't Burger King bullshit, all you want. He tries that shit again and he'll be playing to half empty theaters the rest of his life.

Surely the late showings, cancellations, riots etc just add to the myth and controversy surrounding the band and actually help Axl's cause in the long run? Yes the publicity surrounding these events is "bad", but the fact they are getting "publicity" is the most important thing.

[misterID]

I don't see how that could help him, especially if you're a promoter for one of those venues. Riots, cancellations, late showings aren't going to help them in that regaurd.

And if you are a casual, to new fan, not a die hard, would you run the risk of going to a show that was an hour or 2 hours away and you had work the next morning and you might run into a last second cancellation or a riot? Also, would you let your kid go to one?

I know that if you have responsibilites like a job and family you're bashed around here if you complain about how late the band goes on, but that's not going to help them either.

It's not a mystique anymore. It's a liability.