Is it possible.....

[jarmo]

It sure as hell didn't hurt their careers, though, did it?

Not in the long run. But considering they weren't happy with that album and probably lost money on the tour, it wasn't as successful as something like Achtung Baby....

The follow up to Pop sold a lot more in the US....


So the whole idea that bands who release albums stay on top is kinda wrong. You have to get to the top of the mountain, but you can't just put out crap or you'll come down fast.

And he can be successful still, but I think the point f this thread was asking if they could be "as successful" which I highly doubt, no matter how good the music is.

Depends on how you define "as successful" as.

Back then record sales was the easiest way to determine how popular an artist is. Today that has changed.....


Can they headline arenas/stadiums all over the world like they did in the 90s? Definitely.

Will they be on MTV 24/7? No, MTV isn't like that anymore.





/jarmo

[misterID]

The tour was a failure because of how much each show cost to put on. They made a shitload of money on the POP tour, but it just cost more than they made to put on each show. Which is why they stopped doing shows like that.

They weren't happy with the reception the album received, because the album was a shot at mainstream music and the record industry, it was a concept album meant to be a statrical look at the state of music and the industry. It wasn't meant to be huge like their previous records. It just went over most peoples heads and no one caught on to it. Like I said, people want to label it a failure even though in relality it was successful. They just had the balls to make that gamble.

The fact that they had a long catalog, and stayed pretty current, gave them the opportunity to make an album like that. And it's not the fact they kept releasing albums, its the fact they kept releasing good albums. I said nothing about just releasing any old record. They weren't basing all their chips on ONE record.

Jarmo, GNR can't fill arenas in America, let alone try and headline a stadium tour. Around the world, I don't know, outside festivals we really don't have much to go on, unless they decide only to play a very short tour in big markets.

Their success will be measured on the quality of their music and if it was worth the wait.



 

[LunsJail]

Jarmo, GNR can't fill arenas in America, let alone try and headline a stadium tour.

Maybe not without an album to tour behind and a record company that has a reason to promote the band.  But that could all change soon......

[jarmo]

The tour was a failure because of how much each show cost to put on. They made a shitload of money on the POP tour, but it just cost more than they made to put on each show. Which is why they stopped doing shows like that.

They weren't happy with the reception the album received, because the album was a shot at mainstream music and the record industry, it was a conept album meant to be a statical look at the state of music. It wasn't meant to be huge like their previous records. It just went over most peoples heads and no one caught on to it. Like I said, people want to label it a failure even though in relaity is was successful. They just had the balls to make that gamble.

How do you explain them re-recording and remixing the singles from that album?

They had a deadline with the tour starting and had to rush to get the album done. In the end it wasn't properly finished.


I like some of those tracks, so I don't mind them taking chances. But to re-write history and claim it was a success is a bit of a stretch. Sure, going platinum in the US is a success to most bands, but I'm sure they were expecting more.

Jarmo, GNR can't fill arenas in America, let alone try and headline a stadium tour.

Suddenly you're focusing on now instead of in the future.

They sold out several dates in North America in 2006 without the album out and without a new song on the radio.

Around the world, I don't know, outside festivals we really don't have much to go on, unless they decide only to play a very short tour in big markets.

Considering they headlined several festivals in Europe in 2006, I'd say you're wrong.


I don't think stadium shows in Europe and South America are that far off.







/jarmo

[misterID]

The tour was a failure because of how much each show cost to put on. They made a shitload of money on the POP tour, but it just cost more than they made to put on each show. Which is why they stopped doing shows like that.

They weren't happy with the reception the album received, because the album was a shot at mainstream music and the record industry, it was a conept album meant to be a statical look at the state of music. It wasn't meant to be huge like their previous records. It just went over most peoples heads and no one caught on to it. Like I said, people want to label it a failure even though in relaity is was successful. They just had the balls to make that gamble.

How do you explain them re-recording and remixing the singles from that album?

They had a deadline with the tour starting and had to rush to get the album done. In the end it wasn't properly finished.

I don't know... Maybe because a lot of other artists remix and re-record their singles? I never once heard them say they hated, or disliked that album. POP was what it was. It was a concept album that no one understood the concept of

I like some of those tracks, so I don't mind them taking chances. But to re-write history and claim it was a success is a bit of a stretch. Sure, going platinum in the US is a success to most bands, but I'm sure they were expecting more.

That made no sense. How did I rewrite history? I pointed out that album was a success. They sold over a million records, but you're trying to say it was still a failure because they were U2 and their other records sold more?

In that case, the UYI and TSI? were failures because they didn't sell as well as AFD? Even though they each sold over a million copies?

Jarmo, GNR can't fill arenas in America, let alone try and headline a stadium tour.

Suddenly you're focusing on now instead of in the future.

I'm sorry. I forgot to look in my crystal ball

They sold out several dates in North America in 2006 without the album out and without a new song on the radio.

They had to play smaller venues from the last tour because of how horrible attendance was. And they sold out in larger markets, which is good, but to carry on an arena tour across the country when you're playing a vast majority of small markets is something else.

If they have a huge record, I hope they can sell out an arena tour.

Around the world, I don't know, outside festivals we really don't have much to go on, unless they decide only to play a very short tour in big markets.

Considering they headlined several festivals in Europe in 2006, I'd say you're wrong.


I don't think stadium shows in Europe and South America are that far off.







/jarmo

Okay, those other bands on the bill had nothing to with the level of success they had on those festivals.

You know Europe better than I do, and maybe they could have the same level success on a headlining tour as they did on a festival tour. We just don't know.

[Nytunz]

The tour was a failure because of how much each show cost to put on. They made a shitload of money on the POP tour, but it just cost more than they made to put on each show. Which is why they stopped doing shows like that.

They weren't happy with the reception the album received, because the album was a shot at mainstream music and the record industry, it was a conept album meant to be a statical look at the state of music. It wasn't meant to be huge like their previous records. It just went over most peoples heads and no one caught on to it. Like I said, people want to label it a failure even though in relaity is was successful. They just had the balls to make that gamble.

How do you explain them re-recording and remixing the singles from that album?

They had a deadline with the tour starting and had to rush to get the album done. In the end it wasn't properly finished.

I don't know... Maybe because a lot of other artists remix and re-record their singles? I never once heard them say they hated, or disliked that album. POP was what it was. It was a concept album that no one understood the concept of

I like some of those tracks, so I don't mind them taking chances. But to re-write history and claim it was a success is a bit of a stretch. Sure, going platinum in the US is a success to most bands, but I'm sure they were expecting more.

That made no sense. How did I rewrite history? I pointed out that album was a success. They sold over a million records, but you're trying to say it was still a failure because they were U2 and their other records sold more?

In that case, the UYI and TSI? were failures because they didn't sell as well as AFD? Even though they each sold over a million copies?

Jarmo, GNR can't fill arenas in America, let alone try and headline a stadium tour.

Suddenly you're focusing on now instead of in the future.

I'm sorry. I forgot to look in my crystal ball

They sold out several dates in North America in 2006 without the album out and without a new song on the radio.

They had to play smaller venues from the last tour because of how horrible attendance was. And they sold out in larger markets, which is good, but to carry on an arena tour across the country when you're playing a vast majority of small markets is something else.

If they have a huge record, I hope they can sell out an arena tour.

Around the world, I don't know, outside festivals we really don't have much to go on, unless they decide only to play a very short tour in big markets.

Considering they headlined several festivals in Europe in 2006, I'd say you're wrong.


I don't think stadium shows in Europe and South America are that far off.







/jarmo

Okay, those other bands on the bill had nothing to with the level of success they had on those festivals.

You know Europe better than I do, and maybe they could have the same level success as a headlining tour, where they played alone. We just don't know.

Well, in Norway thay sold out Spektrum in about 10 minutes, so they had to set up an extra show. The same happend in Finland, if im not wrong.
Roskilde Festival in Danmark (One of the biggest festivals in Europe) GnR were the band with most audience. Even though they lost some potential audience because they were 1 hour too late.

In Europe there def. is alot of potential for this band. And GnR are still concidered as one of the top rockbands of all time here. One reason is, because Rock n roll and Heavy has been "retro" the last couple of years.

[jarmo]

I don't know... Maybe because a lot of other artists remix and re-record their singles? I never once heard them say they hated, or disliked that album. POP was what it was. It was a concept album that no one understood the concept of

I didn't say they hated it. It was just rushed out!

So they "fixed" the singles later....

That made no sense. How did I rewrite history? I pointed out that album was a success. They sold over a million records, but you're trying to say it was still a failure because they were U2 and their other records sold more?

I'm saying, it wasn't the big selling album that kept them at the top of the mountain and Grammy nominated like you seem to imply.

You're the one saying all their albums were successful. Not me.

I'm saying, even a band like U2 who have been a huge band for over 20 years now, had a small dip in popularity.

But they got back on track and have proved that you don't have to be an angry 20 year old in order to be popular. Which some people seem to think.

In that case, the UYI and TSI? were failures because they didn't sell as well as AFD? Even though they each sold over a million copies?

Nice analogy. Unfortunately totally wrong.

With Use Your Illusion I and II, GN'R went from being big to huge.

Without those two albums, they weren't a stadium act.

They had to play smaller venues from the last tour because of how horrible attendance was. And they sold out in larger markets, which is good, but to carry on an arena tour across the country when you're playing a vast majority of small markets is something else.

What?

Look at how many shows they played in the New York area alone.

Okay, those other bands on the bill had nothing to with the level of success they had on those festivals.

Now you're getting confused again.

I'm not saying GN'R sold all those festival tickets.

But, the festival organizers don't pick any band to headline their festivals.

GN'R headlined without an album out. That says something.





/jarmo

[Fingers]

I'm not sure about the states-basically the concerts here outside of NY on the last run were about half full, mostly-can a single and album help out? I would hope so-the first or second single will have to hit big-I think the album will sell big the first and second week, but they have to keep the momentum-Poison, Dave Matthews, and bands like Journey post big numbers sometimes without releasing an album

[jarmo]

I'm not sure about the states-basically the concerts here outside of NY on the last run were about half full, mostly

I think if you look at the number of shows and where they took place you might understand why.





/jarmo

[leatherebel]

I'm not sure about the states-basically the concerts here outside of NY on the last run were about half full, mostly-can a single and album help out? I would hope so-the first or second single will have to hit big-I think the album will sell big the first and second week, but they have to keep the momentum-Poison, Dave Matthews, and bands like Journey post big numbers sometimes without releasing an album

In 2006 GN'R didn't sell out only arenas in places that everyone has trouble selling out - the soft market places. It was just a bad booking strategy which was hinted at in Axl's letter along with the tough routing. And even those places weren't half full, they were 2/3s full.
And don't forget there was little to no promotion for those shows. An album out or a single out would be irrelevant if it is not used for promotion. Promotion can be achieved easily without that- just look at the nostalgy or reunion tours of other bands who do not have a new album out. Why was there no proper promotion, is an interesting question. But given the tension existing at the time between management and the band, and the pressure to put the album out, maybe it makes sense why some things did not work out as they should. I mean, once you realize you might not be able to put that album out as everyone expects, would you feel comfortable promoting a tour by using the album, or even giving interviews?
Still, the tour was pretty successful and most importantly the band played some of its best shows on that tour.

[Snafu]

I'm not sure about the states-basically the concerts here outside of NY on the last run were about half full, mostly

I think if you look at the number of shows and where they took place you might understand why.

/jarmo

None of the 4 Florida shows were major sellers. It's not like 1 or 2 did poorly because everyone went to one of the other locations.

Bottom line is, it's not like the name draws the kind of numbers that it once did. I'm not sure an album release would guarantee that to happen again either.

[jarmo]

None of the 4 Florida shows were major sellers. It's not like 1 or 2 did poorly because everyone went to one of the other locations.

I bet that if they had two shows in Florida, they had been 3/4 full or sold out.


Maybe next time you have the chance of seeing GN'R, you'll have to travel a bit.




/jarmo

[LunsJail]

We also shouldn't fall into the trap of comparing every tour from here out to the UYI tour.  That was just a monstrous thing that could probably never happen again.  However, that doesn't equal a lack of success.

[Snafu]

Maybe next time you have the chance of seeing GN'R, you'll have to travel a bit.




/jarmo

Well, I'd call a trip from Florida to NY a little more than a hop, skip, and a jump.

[jarmo]

Well, I'd call a trip from Florida to NY a little more than a hop, skip, and a jump.

Obviously. But I meant the show closest to you.




/jarmo

[thecrippled]

The two shows in Helsinki, Finland in July -06 were sold out and they were amazing.

[jarmo]

The two shows in Helsinki, Finland in July -06 were sold out and they were amazing.

Many shows outside the US have been sold out in 2006 and 2007.


I don't know whether it says something about the US concert market and/or US rock fans.

You often see Americans have an attitude like "anybody can sell out shows in (insert country)".

Almost like selling 20000 tickets in a country outside the US means less than selling the same amount in the US.


But the Helsinki area has a population of one million while the Miami area has one that is over five million. The whole population of Finland could almost live in the Miami area!




A lot of people forget that GN'R weren't selling out every show on the Use Your Illusion tour either....




/jarmo

[Snafu]

The two shows in Helsinki, Finland in July -06 were sold out and they were amazing.

Many shows outside the US have been sold out in 2006 and 2007.


I don't know whether it says something about the US concert market and/or US rock fans.

You often see Americans have an attitude like "anybody can sell out shows in (insert country)".

Almost like selling 20000 tickets in a country outside the US means less than selling the same amount in the US.


But the Helsinki area has a population of one million while the Miami area has one that is over five million. The whole population of Finland could almost live in the Miami area!




A lot of people forget that GN'R weren't selling out every show on the Use Your Illusion tour either....

/jarmo

The whole new band thing is really what hurt ticket sales in the US. Despite whether or not you want to admit it, it's true. I don't know the perception most people have about the band outside the US, but the American media doesn't hide the fact that there is still major interest in a reformation of the classic lineup.

[faldor]

I've never been to a concert, or any event for that matter, outside of the US so I don't have much of a reference point.  It seems though that people in other countries are more passionate for music, sports, etc.  Here in the US, people go to events more for status reasons.  They feel entitled that they're able to say they were at a certain event.  Instead of going to the show to actually see the band and enjoy the music. 

That's just my opinion.  I don't know if it holds up.

[jarmo]

The whole new band thing is really what hurt ticket sales in the US. Despite whether or not you want to admit it, it's true. I don't know the perception most people have about the band outside the US, but the American media doesn't hide the fact that there is still major interest in a reformation of the classic lineup.

Oh please.

There's interest in anything Axl does in the media.

Dr Pepper had nothing to do with that and yet the story appeared in all kinds of places.



The whole reunion things is made up by people who haven't done their homework.

It's the easiest story a journalist can write. The band members went their separate ways, so it's really easy to start talking about a reunion. Especially in an age where other bands are reuniting.







/jarmo