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« Reply #160 on: May 23, 2008, 08:59:30 PM »

How would you describe somebody who advocates communist principles then? How would you describe them?

I would not call someone who wants goverment intervention into the oil price crisis as a commie.  A commie is someone who holds believes wholeheartedly in that form of goverment.  I am not a commie for wanting the US to help out in the gas crisis.
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« Reply #161 on: May 23, 2008, 10:06:10 PM »

Sounds like you are moving the goal posts to me...
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« Reply #162 on: May 23, 2008, 10:21:37 PM »

Hey where did the commie senator go? Is he writing a letter to Bush asking him to freeze gas prices?



 
Should we all believe what you do since you think your opinion is so much better than everyone elses?

BTW- there are more forms of stress relief available to you other than riding my ass.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 10:27:18 PM by Senator John "Bluto" Blutarsky » Logged

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« Reply #163 on: May 24, 2008, 01:03:58 AM »

Confirm what you already said, do you think government should put a cap on gas prices?

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« Reply #164 on: May 24, 2008, 12:36:10 PM »

Sounds like you are moving the goal posts to me...

 Roll Eyes

You are saying that supporting goverment intervention in the oil crisis makes one a commie.  I'm saying it takes more than that to make someone a commie.  It's just an opinion, but probably shared by 95% of the world.
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« Reply #165 on: May 24, 2008, 12:43:05 PM »

Sounds like you are moving the goal posts to me...

 Roll Eyes

You are saying that supporting goverment intervention in the oil crisis makes one a commie. 

What kind of government intervention do you suggest which only affects the gazillionaires as you put it a page or so back?
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« Reply #166 on: May 24, 2008, 01:01:49 PM »

Sounds like you are moving the goal posts to me...

 Roll Eyes

You are saying that supporting goverment intervention in the oil crisis makes one a commie. 

What kind of government intervention do you suggest which only affects the gazillionaires as you put it a page or so back?

The kind that would hurt the oil companies making record profits to help the billions who use oil.  Hurt is a relative term when you talk about making gaxillions into billionaires.  I'm not eductaed on the topic enough to give specifics, but I would support legislation that would make oil companies earn more responsibly.  Does support of a policy like that make me a commie or does it take more than that?
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« Reply #167 on: May 24, 2008, 01:14:56 PM »

Sounds like you are moving the goal posts to me...

 Roll Eyes

You are saying that supporting goverment intervention in the oil crisis makes one a commie. 

What kind of government intervention do you suggest which only affects the gazillionaires as you put it a page or so back?

The kind that would hurt the oil companies making record profits to help the billions who use oil.  Hurt is a relative term when you talk about making gaxillions into billionaires.  I'm not eductaed on the topic enough to give specifics, but I would support legislation that would make oil companies earn more responsibly.  Does support of a policy like that make me a commie or does it take more than that?

It depends on what the policy is. I can't think of something which only affects the gazillionaires unless you make it a personal taxation which wouldn't fly and is probably illegal. I don't know of a way to reduce a company's profits which only affects the very rich at the top, maybe you do?
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« Reply #168 on: May 24, 2008, 01:27:53 PM »

Allowing more competition in the oil industry could be something the Gov't could promote.  We really have only 5 major oil companies and there is no incentive for them to not take the high profits.  It is close to a monopoly.

I'm not promoting a cap on oil prices, that would be unrealistic. A windfall profits tax where the revenue goes towards lowering prices is a possible solution.
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« Reply #169 on: May 24, 2008, 02:08:41 PM »

Allowing more competition in the oil industry could be something the Gov't could promote.  We really have only 5 major oil companies and there is no incentive for them to not take the high profits.  It is close to a monopoly.

I don't really understand the economics but from what I understand, the oil companies are only part of the problem along with speculation and the weak dollar. Encouraging competition in the oil companies seems to me the exact wrong thing to do. I'd prefer if we were taking away incentives from oil companies, and putting the incentives into alternative energy sources, tax breaks to work at home, public transport - though it's probably far too late for that to make much difference to the infrastructure. Even in the unlikely case that we aren't contributing to global warming, it's a resource which is running out and causing stupid, expensive wars.

Even without government intervention, we're seeing the results of a non-competitive cozy kind of capitalism, where most people have been living comfortably for a few decades. But sudden shifts are part of capitalism (ex. the industrial revolution and industry/agriculture), some people gain, some people lose - people who moved to the suburbs and drove long distances to work with no alternative, but lived comfortably are pretty much going to be the losers now unless they adapt. That's the harsh reality of capitalism, it's of little use expecting the government to bail you out once it's your turn to suffer.

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I'm not promoting a cap on oil prices, that would be unrealistic. A windfall profits tax where the revenue goes towards lowering prices is a possible solution.

I guess I don't understand windfall tax. Wouldn't that be money going from the companies to the government? Even if the gas tax was repealed, prices are rising by more than that in weeks, and it's only 18c/gallon. Gas isn't suddenly going to fall to $1.50. How would a windfall tax benefit consumers?
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« Reply #170 on: May 24, 2008, 03:10:14 PM »

I'm no economics whiz either, but I would think that the money from a windfall profit tax could be used to offset the rising gas prices in any number of ways.  Yes the money would be going to the govt, but this capital would be used in the interest of not wanting the economy to suffer as a whole.

The pricing of oil based on speculation rather than its actual value is another problem. Why should oil rise at the pump the same day as an internal incedent in the country of Nigeria? The gas in the tank at the local station has already been bought and paid for.



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« Reply #171 on: May 24, 2008, 04:53:46 PM »

I'm no economics whiz either, but I would think that the money from a windfall profit tax could be used to offset the rising gas prices in any number of ways. 

Such as?
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« Reply #172 on: May 24, 2008, 06:30:25 PM »

There is no acceptable defense for the oil prices.  This is not milk.  This is not a pure market.  This isn't just supply and demand.  This is the biggest fucking scam in the history of our planet.  I think when Hurrican Katrina came and nobody stopped buying gas when it shot up, they found out, "it doesn't matter what we charge, these bastards need it to live, we have them by the balls."  I love economics.  I love less gov't intervention.  I love supply and demand.  But only when its in a free market.  Not a cartel like the one we are in.  This is the biggest bull shit ever.   I don't think Oil should be publically traded because the incentives is for the shareholders as they should be.  But they harm everyone else.  Their success hurts the non investors because it means we pay more. 
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« Reply #173 on: May 24, 2008, 08:40:04 PM »

What's your walk score? Mine is 86...

http://www.walkscore.com/
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« Reply #174 on: May 24, 2008, 08:40:48 PM »

There is no acceptable defense for the oil prices.  This is not milk.  This is not a pure market.  This isn't just supply and demand.  This is the biggest fucking scam in the history of our planet.  I think when Hurrican Katrina came and nobody stopped buying gas when it shot up, they found out, "it doesn't matter what we charge, these bastards need it to live, we have them by the balls."  I love economics.  I love less gov't intervention.  I love supply and demand.  But only when its in a free market.  Not a cartel like the one we are in.  This is the biggest bull shit ever.   I don't think Oil should be publically traded because the incentives is for the shareholders as they should be.  But they harm everyone else.  Their success hurts the non investors because it means we pay more. 

boo hoo   Cry
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« Reply #175 on: May 24, 2008, 09:06:38 PM »

It's a cartel. What do you expect?

Fairness?

Making oil a real free market would go a long way, that's pretty basic economics.
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« Reply #176 on: May 25, 2008, 01:37:54 AM »

There is no acceptable defense for the oil prices.  This is not milk.  This is not a pure market.  This isn't just supply and demand.  This is the biggest fucking scam in the history of our planet.  I think when Hurrican Katrina came and nobody stopped buying gas when it shot up, they found out, "it doesn't matter what we charge, these bastards need it to live, we have them by the balls."  I love economics.  I love less gov't intervention.  I love supply and demand.  But only when its in a free market.  Not a cartel like the one we are in.  This is the biggest bull shit ever.   I don't think Oil should be publically traded because the incentives is for the shareholders as they should be.  But they harm everyone else.  Their success hurts the non investors because it means we pay more. 

Bravo  beer

If price was controlled by supply and demand I'd agree that Govt should keep its hands off. But that is not the case.
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« Reply #177 on: May 25, 2008, 02:30:44 AM »

The speculators are the effect not the cause.
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« Reply #178 on: May 25, 2008, 10:27:44 AM »

Stocks fall as oil prices stir economic worries

By TIM PARADIS
AP Business Writer
 
Article Date: Sunday, May 25, 2008

NEW YORK ? Wall Street ended a week of big losses with more selling Friday as rising oil prices again raised worries that strained consumers will cut back spending and hurt the overall economy. The Dow Jones industrials fell nearly 150 points in the final session before the three-day holiday weekend.

Investors are uneasy about consumers, who at the start of Memorial Day weekend are paying gasoline prices that have gone up nearly 20 percent, or 65 cents a gallon, in the past year.

Wall Street's fear is that consumers, who account for more than two-thirds of U.S. economic activity, will pare spending to make room in their budgets for gas that has topped $4 a gallon in some parts of the country.

Light, sweet crude rose $1.38 to settle at $132.19 per barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Oil saw its third weekly gain after surging to a record $135.09 a barrel on Thursday. Some investors are buying on the belief that global demand from countries like China and India will outstrip supply. A weak dollar also makes each barrel more expensive.

"Crude oil is still weighing on the market and particularly because this is a traditional driving holiday," said Chris Orndorff, director of equity strategy at Payden & Rygel in Los Angeles.

The concerns sent Dow down 145.99, or 1.16 percent, to 12,479.63.

Broader stock indicators also declined. The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 18.42, or 1.32 percent, to 1,375.93, and the Nasdaq composite index slid 19.91, or 0.81 percent, to 2,444.67.

For the week, the Dow lost 3.91 percent, suffering its worst week since February, while the S&P 500 gave up 3.47 percent and the Nasdaq fell 3.33 percent.

The economic fallout from higher energy prices commanded Wall Street's focus during the week. Stocks managed to post gains Thursday following the Dow's biggest two-day loss since late February. Despite the declines in the major indexes for the week, stocks are off their mid-March lows. The Dow is still up 6.3 percent from its close of 11,740.15 on March 10, when credit concerns weighed on the market.

"I think while the eye of the credit storm may have passed, the tidewater is still rising on the consumer and investors can't lose sight of that," said Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank in Chicago. He noted that higher gas prices had led some vacationers to reduce how far they plan to travel for the holiday.

"It is taking a toll on the consumer and it remains to be seen how that will impact corporate earnings."

Beyond consumers, investors worried about the harm higher energy prices are having on businesses. The rise in oil hammered sectors such as airlines. Continental Airlines Inc. fell nearly 27 percent for the week, while United Airlines parent UAL Corp. dropped nearly 46 percent.

Bond prices rose Friday as investors sought the safety of government debt. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note, which moves opposite its price, fell to 3.85 percent from 3.92 percent late Thursday.

The dollar fell, while gold prices rose.

Orndorff said the spike in oil has rekindled concerns about stagflation ? when stalling growth accompanies rising prices.

"Given that inflation remains stubbornly high, then the Fed is going to be less accommodative going forward so we may end up a period of sluggish growth in stubbornly higher inflation," he said, referring to possible interest rate cuts from the Federal Reserve. Minutes released this week from the last meeting of the central bank's rate-setting arm doused some investors' hopes that policymakers will again cut rates to aid the economy when they meet at the end of June.

Orndorff predicts investors will need further evidence on how the economy is faring before they resume taking stocks back toward the highs seen last fall.

"I think the market for the most part is going to be in a somewhat narrow trading range until you get the earnings that come out in July. I think that's going to be an important quarter as people see how the effects of the global economy slowing are affecting the companies."

A Financial Times report that brewing company InBev is readying a $46 billion takeover bid for Budweiser maker Anheuser-Busch Cos. failed to shake Wall Street from its downcast mood. Often, buyout activity is fodder for a rally in stocks as it as seen as a bullish sign for the economy. But the buying appeared limited to the St. Louis brewer, whose shares hit an all-time high. Anheuser-Busch rose finished up $4.03, or 7.7 percent, to $56.61 after trading as high as $58.

American Axle and Manufacturing Holdings Inc. fell 81 cents, or 4.2 percent, to $18.44 after the company said that workers approved a contract including pay cuts and other concessions. The vote ends a strike that lasted nearly three months, hurting General Motors Corp.'s production of large sport utility vehicles and pickups. Although the contract's ratification will benefit GM, auto stocks saw pressure during the week because of soaring fuel prices. GM was the steepest decliner among the 30 stocks that comprise the Dow industrials, falling 83 cents, or 4.5 percent, to $17.60.

Declining issues outnumbered advancers by about 7 to 3 on the New York Stock Exchange, where consolidated volume came to 3.43 billion shares compared with 3.85 billion shares traded Thursday.

The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell 8.91, or 1.22 percent, to 724.10.

In overseas trade, Tokyo's Nikkei closed rose 0.24 percent. In Europe, London's FTSE ended down 1.53 percent, Frankfurt's DAX fell 1.79 percent and Paris' CAC 40 shed 1.89 percent.

The Dow Jones industrial average ended the week down 507.17, or 3.91 percent, at 12,479.63. The Standard & Poor's 500 index finished down 49.42, or 3.47 percent, at 1,375.93. The Nasdaq composite index ended the week down 84.18, or 3.33 percent, at 2,444.67.

The Russell 2000 index finished the week down 17.07, or 2.3 percent, at 724.10.

The Dow Jones Wilshire 5000 Composite Index ? a free-float weighted index that measures 5,000 U.S. based companies ? ended Friday at 13,954.47, down 469.28 points, or 3.25 percent, for the week. A year ago, the index was at 15,348.10.

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080525/NEWS10/801323969/-1/FOSBUSINESS
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« Reply #179 on: May 25, 2008, 12:22:23 PM »

 Cost of diesel in the UK yesterday  1.32UKP/litre which translates to $9.90/US gallon.
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