Robin leaving? Just touring?

[jarmo]

He's using the excuse that Buckethead is important for this era and should be in the band.

I'm not saying he didn't have a part in making these songs happen.

But Izzy had a big fucking part in creating the songs for the Use Your Illusion albums. So he didn't play much lead guitar and wasn't the most known member. He still (co-)wrote a lot of songs and was there on day one when the band started!


So by his logic, Tommy isn't as important because he doesn't play lead guitar?

 





/jarmo

[younggunner]

Steven didn't play one show on the UYI tour. Izzy played the shows until August 91 (before album release) and a few shows in May 1993....

He wasn't there for a majority of the shows after the album's release and didn't take part in the music videos.

It was a loss of a guy who was there and started the band. A guy who co-wrote many of the hits.

The band kept going just like they should have.

Didnt they play a bunch of Illusion songs well before the album actually came out?

Adler is on AFD and toured the world for that album.

Same with Izzy.

If Slash left right when Izzy left, would the band have just kept going on?

Sorry to have to break this news to you, but Buckethead isn't exactly up there either.....

I have some news to break for you as well....being that Bucket is all over the album he would have been the next big thing in GNR if he stayed. Your crazy if you think otherwise.

Did the band stop existing when he quit? No.

You keep bringing up credibility.

The band got through the above mentioned line up changes. You think Buckethead quitting is worse for the band's "credibility"?

When did I bring up credibility in my last post?

When Slash quit, the band wasnt doing anything. Also, you act as if GNR are over the hump and Slash is forgotten by the media.

I never said Bucket quitting hurts the bands credibility. Stop putting words in my mouth. I also am talking about Robin as well in these arguments. Stop with the Bucket stuff. Did he not give you a toy or something? Why do you despise the guy so much. I dont get it.

I guess when Buckets parts and influences pop up on the majority of songs and album youll freeze and just stop rocking out until his parts and influences pass?

People go see Axl and GN'R at concerts. Not Buckethead with GN'R. Well maybe you....

Last I checked Buckethead wasnt onstage in 2006 at Hammerstein, Continental, and MSG.

You want to focus on just Buckethead. I am talking about Robin as well. You can sugar coat it all you want but wouldnt you rather see the 2002 or even the 2006 lineup tour and do videos for CD? WOuldnt that be more special and exciting?

I have never once seen you upset with any new GNR issue. How are you able to just move on to the next thing so easily?

When people talk about rock bands they usually talk about the singer and LEAD guitarist

[D]

I gotta go back to Jarmo's original point anyway and it is still the best point that has been made so far


I am sure Axl would love to still have Bucket and Robin, HELL in reality Axl probably would still love to have the original lineup HOWEVER, you can't make people stay that don't want to.


This would be an entirely different discussion and YOU guys would be right and Jarmo would be WRONG if Axl FIRED these two guys and kicked them out of the band.

The fact they quit or left on their own terms is on them and there isn't anything Axl can do but go on.

Should Axl just forget about releasing CD and touring since those guys no longer choose to be a part of it?

Heck no.

[younggunner]

I am sure Axl would love to still have Bucket and Robin, HELL in reality Axl probably would still love to have the original lineup HOWEVER, you can't make people stay that don't want to.

And I agree with that.

Im just saying that its not as great as what could have been. Jarmo tends to downplay things.

The band will move on and be just fine. You cant force people to stay. Plus Im pretty sure the band doesnt hate Robin right now. Its his choice. What can you do?

But in the context of a message board we can discuss certain things and have opinions on these issues.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

I want people in GnR who want to be in GnR

Aside from Adler and Sorum, nobody has ever been "thrown out" or fired by Axl

Gilby's an interesting case but he was never anything more than a touring member who played rhythm on a covers album.  He never wrote a note of music on any GnR release

The fact is that the reason that Slash, Duff, Izzy, Buckethead, Robin, Tobias, and anyone else is not in GnR is because they don't or didn't want to be in GnR.  They all made their own decision to leave

Axl just does not strike me as the type of guy who would throw someone in the current lineup overboard just because someone else who quit or left decided they wanted back in.  That's not the way he is

Don't get me wrong, I would be stoked if Bucket came back for the CD tour but if he doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it and it's pointless to complain.  If he doesn't want to be there, then he doesn't want to be there

[jarmo]

Didnt they play a bunch of Illusion songs well before the album actually came out?

Your point?

Adler is on AFD and toured the world for that album.

So to prove your point, you lump two members and two albums together?

Same with Izzy.

If Slash left right when Izzy left would the band have just kept going on?

Same what?

If Slash left in 1991? He didn't. What's this?

Buckethead left in 2004. If Robin has left, he did so in 2008.

So in both cases, the members quit years apart. Your point?

Oh wait. Is this a case of "If both Slash and Izzy left while they were supposed to tour and promote the UYI albums just like BH and (maybe) Robin for CD"?


The only problem what that hypothetical scenario is that Ron has been in the band since 2006.

So even though Buckethead is on the album, he's not a member of the band like Ron is.


Maybe Ron should've replaced all Buckethead parts on the album and GN'R shouldn't have used any of his songs? Would that have been better?

Of course not!

I have some news to break for you as well....being that Bucket is all over the album he would have been the next big thing in GNR if he stayed. Your crazy if you think otherwise.

But he chose not to be there!

He walked away from all that stardom.

Stop trying to sentence GN'R to some sort of Buckethead service.

Let the band decide what's best for them for once.

"You're not in the band!"

I never said Bucket quitting hurts the bands credibility. Stop putting words in my mouth. I also am talking about Robin as well in these arguments.

Isn't that the general idea? Losing two guitar players who are on the album hurts the band's credibility?

Stop with the Bucket stuff. Did he not give you a toy or something? Why do you despise the guy so much. I dont get it.

Awww, insults. This from a guy who begged me for weeks to let him back.

Not very clever.... But then again, not surprising.

I guess when Buckets parts and influences pop up on the majority of songs and album youll just stop rocking out?

No. As I told you a few posts ago. The loss of Buckethead, or possibly Robin, does not "take away anything from the celebrations" for me.

You were the one with the celebratory issues. Not me!

Don't forget that!

You want to focus on just Buckethead. I am talking about Robin as well. You can sugar coat it all you want but wouldnt you rather see the 2002 or even the 2006 lineup tour and do videos for CD? WOuldnt that be more special and exciting?

Do you know what excites me?

Guns N' Roses.

Releasing a new album.

Seeing Guns N' Roses on TV.

Seeing Guns N' Roses play concerts.

Etc.

Think about it.


I'll give you a hint. I didn't mention any line ups or member names.

Guns N' Roses has been the band for me since 1988!





/jarmo

[prairie]

We all love and kind of understand GNR.  But it is a little hard to explian to people who don't follow the band like we do.  

Example:

A Friend - "Hey I heard GNR is comimg out with a new album, but slash isn't on it, who replaced him?"
You - "Paul Tobias, Dave Navaro, Robin Fink, and  Buckethead, but they aren't in the band anymore"

It's hard to explain as an uber fan, how is the casual fan supposed to get it?  I can't even imagine trying to market it.

prairieboy,

[axl2]

A band is a unit that works together to come together and have the ability to bring all their influences together. Without both Robin, Bucket and Brain then this is basically another cover band. If they are back in the band then this is more like a real band playing their OWN music.

[jarmo]

A band is a unit that works together to come together and have the ability to bring all their influences together. Without both Robin, Bucket and Brain then this is basically another cover band. If they are back in the band then this is more like a real band playing their OWN music.

So, they should've replaced all Brain's and Buckethead's parts to please you guys.

 



/jarmo

[axl2]

A band is a unit that works together to come together and have the ability to bring all their influences together. Without both Robin, Bucket and Brain then this is basically another cover band. If they are back in the band then this is more like a real band playing their OWN music.

So, they should've replaced all Brain's and Buckethead's parts to please you guys.

 



/jarmo

Brain you can deal with. But Robin and Buckethead are too much a part of this band. Ron can definitely play it. I'm just hoping at least one of those 2 come back.

[jarmo]

Brain you can deal with. But Robin and Buckethead are too much a part of this band. Ron can definitely play it. I'm just hoping at least one of those 2 come back.

If they quit, they stop being part of the band. 


As I said earlier, several other members who had big part in GN'R's past have also quit and the band has managed to keep going.


/jarmo

[GypsySoul]

A band is a unit that works together to come together and have the ability to bring all their influences together. Without both Robin, Bucket and Brain then this is basically another cover band. If they are back in the band then this is more like a real band playing their OWN music.

Axl, Chris Pitman and Paul Tobias wrote a lot of the music so it's not only Robin, Bucket and Brain's OWN music that's being played.

[axl2]

A band is a unit that works together to come together and have the ability to bring all their influences together. Without both Robin, Bucket and Brain then this is basically another cover band. If they are back in the band then this is more like a real band playing their OWN music.

Axl, Chris Pitman and Paul Tobias wrote a lot of the music so it's not only Robin, Bucket and Brain's OWN music that's being played.

They brought the guitar music though.

[younggunner]

Your point?

You said Izzy wasnt there for the Illusions tour. I believe the Illusions tour started well before the album actually came out.

If Slash left in 1991? He didn't. What's this?

Because if he did then we would have somehting to compare the current situation to. Izzy doesnt.

So even though Buckethead is on the album, he's not a member of the band like Ron is.

The booklet will debunk that theory. Obiviously Bucket is no longer a member of GNR. Technically you are right. But when people hear the album they will be hearing Bucket not ROn.

Maybe Ron should've replaced all Buckethead parts on the album and GN'R shouldn't have used any of his songs? Would that have been better?

Of course not!

never said that they should do that.

Isn't that the general idea? Losing two guitar players who are on the album hurts the band's credibility?

In some ways it does. But Im talking about what would have been the best case scenario for me as a GNR fan.

Awww, insults. This from a guy who begged me for weeks to let him back.

Not very clever.... But then again, not surprising.

Stop being so sensitive. Your allowed to throw digs around but when I do it you get upset. Relax.

No. As I told you a few posts ago. The loss of Buckethead, or possibly Robin, does not "take away anything from the celebrations" for me.

You were the one with the celebratory issues. Not me!

Don't forget that!

Thats all Im saying. Im talking for myself. I never claimed that their departures will take away sales of CD.

[Skunk]

And and Josh Freese wrote some stuff but then Brain was brought in to record it (but not to rewrite it), and maybe that means Brain wasn't a real member of the band or maybe Frank isn't a real member now because Brain was never a real member so he took a fake spot or... er, huh?
If Slash was brought in to record the parts Bucket wrote, who would you want to tour?
Hm... Probably Ron.
Huh?
This conversation has gotten weird.
I like all the guitarists, they've all been great musicians in their own rights. I have my favorites, and admit i'm biased towards the ones that don't quit. Either way, i'm excited to own the album i've waited my whole adult life for, and curious to see who will be on stage next time... though i know whoever it is, they'll be good.

[jarmo]

You said Izzy wasnt there for the Illusions tour. I believe the Illusions tour started well before the album actually came out.

I said he wasn't there doing the majority of the tour or videos. He wasn't there for the majority of the tour AFTER the albums were released.

But when people hear the album they will be hearing Bucket not ROn.

But Ron is also playing guitar on the album.... Talk about downplaying!



And the funny thing is, some thought the amazing drums on Chinese Democracy were Brain.....

And all that amazing guitar work on Shackler's Revenge was all Buckethead.

Oops!


I don't think people care that much about the names.

If it sounds good, it sounds good.

They go see the band live. And if that show rocks, it fucking rocks.



People also heard Alice Cooper on Use Your Illusion I. They didn't hear him sing it live! 

never said that they should do that.

No you didn't say that. But from the "credibility" point of view it would've been the "logical" thing to do right?

In some ways it does. But Im talking about what would have been the best case scenario for me as a GNR fan.

For you. Thank you for pointing that one out.

Stop being so sensitive. Your allowed to throw digs around but when I do it you get upset. Relax.

Sensitive? This from the guy who kept begging me to be let back in for weeks and weeks.

Who got upset because I didn't reply fast enough.

Who promised me that if you broke another rule I could ban you again and you'd be fine with it.


Nice..... Act one way in private messages and another way in public.  

Thats all Im saying. Im talking for myself.

Yeah, I know it affects you personally. It's quite apparent.

i'm excited to own the album i've waited my whole adult life for, and curious to see who will be on stage next time... though i know whoever it is, they'll be good.

 




/jarmo

[Bruno Poeys]

A band is a unit that works together to come together and have the ability to bring all their influences together. Without both Robin, Bucket and Brain then this is basically another cover band. If they are back in the band then this is more like a real band playing their OWN music.

Axl, Chris Pitman and Paul Tobias wrote a lot of the music so it's not only Robin, Bucket and Brain's OWN music that's being played.

They brought the guitar music though.

So did Ron and Fortus - and they're still part of the band.

And all that amazing guitar work on Shackler's Revenge was all Buckethead.

The funny thing is: Ron plays almost everything on the track... and this is a track that Buckethead wrote (not alone, but still...). 

[jarmo]

And all that amazing guitar work on Shackler's Revenge was all Buckethead.

The funny thing is: Ron plays almost everything on the track... and this is a track that Buckethead wrote (not alone, but still...). 

It's funny when you just listen and decide that it must be your favorite member because it sounds so amazing!

Then find out the truth. 




/jarmo

[ShotgunBlues1978]

*SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER ABOUT WRITING CREDITS, Jarmo if you don't want this here just delete this post*













Axl and Robin co-wrote one song.  Axl and Bucket co-wrote 3 (2 of which were also co-written by Brain). 

The other 10 songs were written by Axl and some combination of Pitman, Dizzy, Tommy, and Paul Tobias.  Why isn't everyone crying about Paul not being around?   

[Bruno Poeys]

And all that amazing guitar work on Shackler's Revenge was all Buckethead.

The funny thing is: Ron plays almost everything on the track... and this is a track that Buckethead wrote (not alone, but still...). 

It's funny when you just listen and decide that it must be your favorite member because it sounds so amazing!

Then find out the truth. 




/jarmo

Exactly. Like on Shackler's Revenge, several people will be disappointed when they find out that Ron's playing on every track, not Buckethead... and that Ron even re-recorded a lot of the Buckethead's solos/leads.