Robin leaving? Just touring?

[estebanf]

With all due respect Ulises, but you're just like most of us were like 10 years ago, still sticking with the idea that they're a band and that every single member is important...

Come on, I mean, it's about time for you to understand!

10 years ago, I thought GNR was a band. I feel the same way today. There's no reason to think GNR as a solo project.

And FYI Ulises is not a ''newbie''. The post I'm quoting makes you look like one of them.

[overmatik]

Every member is important.

Did you ever go see a GN'R concert?

Even the simple fact that the two "new" guys are on the album kinda proves it.

Well, I couldn't attend to RIR III back in 2001 'cause I live in Brasilia and I was short of money...   But nowadays as I'm working there's a great chance I may go next time they come to Brazil 

But I was talking about decisive input control, like deciding about CD tracklist, promotion, tour etc. The kind of decisions that are taken by the ones who are in a band. But don't get me wrong, they're all great musicians, but no one is irreplaceable.

[jarmo]

But I was talking about decisive imput control, like deciding about CD tracklist, promotion, tour etc. The kind of decisions that are taken by the ones who are in a band. But don't get me wrong, they're all great musicians, but no one is irreplaceable.

A country has a president, prime minister or somebody who's the leader.

A company has a CEO.

A team has a coach.

A boat has a captain.



Do you get the point?

Of course somebody has to be the "leader" but it doesn't mean that the person in question doesn't listen to what the others think.




/jarmo

[Smoking Guns]

But I was talking about decisive imput control, like deciding about CD tracklist, promotion, tour etc. The kind of decisions that are taken by the ones who are in a band. But don't get me wrong, they're all great musicians, but no one is irreplaceable.

A country has a president, prime minister or somebody who's the leader.

A company has a CEO.

A team has a coach.

A boat has a captain.



Do you get the point?

Of course somebody has to be the "leader" but it doesn't mean that the person in question doesn't listen to what the others think.




/jarmo

The leader often is the singer, because he is the mouth piece.  But often, many members have a lot of power.  Page/Plant, Richards/Jagger, Daughtry/Townsend, Angus and Malcolm Young, Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, John Lennon, Harrison, and McCartney... Most huge "bands" have more than one leader.  Most solo acts have one leader.  Guns N Roses has more incommon with Ozzy Osbourne's Band than a band like Aerosmith where Joe Perry and Steven Tyler both have a lot of power and influence.  In Ozzy's band, the members like Zakk have imput, but its Ozzy's show and baby, not Zakk's.  So, I agree GNR is a band, but the power structure is more of a solo act than a traditional band.

[Ulises]

Guns N' Roses is a band, Axl Rose is the leader of the band...what's the big deal? It's been always that way

[Smoking Guns]

Guns N' Roses is a band, Axl Rose is the leader of the band...what's the big deal? It's been always that way

No, not to this degree, it has not.  If Axl had the same power he had now, November Rain would have been on appetite.

[Ulises]

Guns N' Roses is a band, Axl Rose is the leader of the band...what's the big deal? It's been always that way

No, not to this degree, it has not.  If Axl had the same power he had now, November Rain would have been on appetite.

Sorry...didn't know that you're friend of Axl. How do you know that? Do you know what are you saying?

Axl always was the key on Guns N' Roses. Face it.

[jarmo]

But I was talking about decisive imput control, like deciding about CD tracklist, promotion, tour etc. The kind of decisions that are taken by the ones who are in a band. But don't get me wrong, they're all great musicians, but no one is irreplaceable.

A country has a president, prime minister or somebody who's the leader.

A company has a CEO.

A team has a coach.

A boat has a captain.



Do you get the point?

Of course somebody has to be the "leader" but it doesn't mean that the person in question doesn't listen to what the others think.




/jarmo

The leader often is the singer, because he is the mouth piece.  But often, many members have a lot of power.  Page/Plant, Richards/Jagger, Daughtry/Townsend, Angus and Malcolm Young, Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, John Lennon, Harrison, and McCartney...

And yet it's Jimmy Page who puts together all those new Led Zeppelin releases/remasters/DVDs and so on.

I bet Mick Jagger has a lot to do with the Rolling Stones' business decisions than Keith.




/jarmo

[overmatik]

But I was talking about decisive imput control, like deciding about CD tracklist, promotion, tour etc. The kind of decisions that are taken by the ones who are in a band. But don't get me wrong, they're all great musicians, but no one is irreplaceable.

A country has a president, prime minister or somebody who's the leader.

A company has a CEO.

A team has a coach.

A boat has a captain.



Do you get the point?

Of course somebody has to be the "leader" but it doesn't mean that the person in question doesn't listen to what the others think.




/jarmo

The leader often is the singer, because he is the mouth piece.  But often, many members have a lot of power.  Page/Plant, Richards/Jagger, Daughtry/Townsend, Angus and Malcolm Young, Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, John Lennon, Harrison, and McCartney... Most huge "bands" have more than one leader.  Most solo acts have one leader.  Guns N Roses has more incommon with Ozzy Osbourne's Band than a band like Aerosmith where Joe Perry and Steven Tyler both have a lot of power and influence.  In Ozzy's band, the members like Zakk have imput, but its Ozzy's show and baby, not Zakk's.  So, I agree GNR is a band, but the power structure is more of a solo act than a traditional band.

Damn man, you've just put in words what I was trying to say. You have kind of read my thoughts!

[Smoking Guns]

Guns N' Roses is a band, Axl Rose is the leader of the band...what's the big deal? It's been always that way

No, not to this degree, it has not.  If Axl had the same power he had now, November Rain would have been on appetite.

Sorry...didn't know that you're friend of Axl. How do you know that? Do you know what are you saying?

Axl always was the key on Guns N' Roses. Face it.

Axl fought to have NR on Appetite, the other band members said no, NR resurfaced for UYI........ FACT.

[Ulises]

So? is that wrong? I don't see your point. Is that the proof that Axl wasn't the key? I don't think so. Maybe you should have to find a better argument...

[CheapJon]

this has nothing to do with NR but wasn't it more like the band and axl didn't want NR on AFD because it wasn't ready and all shit? axl wanted to do the song justice and couldn't do that with like the afd budget and everything.. i think the plan all along was to have a bad ass first record then the monstrosity began..

aaaaannnyyyywwwaaaaaayyyyyyy....

of course axl is the leader and all.. he's the only one who ever gets all the shit and is being held responsible, since he is that guy he deserevs to make the decisions that he's gonna get shit for anyway, why not support him for it

[Smoking Guns]

So? is that wrong? I don't see your point. Is that the proof that Axl wasn't the key? I don't think so. Maybe you should have to find a better argument...

Axl was a huge Key!!!  But that would never happen now.  Period.  That is my point, he has 100% control now.  He didn't then.

[Ulises]

I don't know why you're assuming that. We don't know what happen in all these years or rehearsing and making of the album...Do you believe that Chinese Democracy is something like an Axl creation instead of a Guns N' Roses creation? I don't think so. There's people like Robin Finck, Stinson , Buckethead or Bumblefoot in this album, I don't think those guys are the just-obey-orders kind

[Smoking Guns]

I don't know why you're assuming that. We don't know what happen in all these years or rehearsing and making of the album...Do you believe that Chinese Democracy is something like an Axl creation instead of a Guns N' Roses creation? I don't think so. There's people like Robin Finck, Stinson , Buckethead or Bumblefoot in this album, I don't think those guys are the just-obey-orders kind

Yes, and they were all selected to bring something to the table that Axl wanted at the table if you know what I mean.  He chose them.  Tommy Stinson didn't hire buckethead and richard fortus... Axl did.  This is Axl's band, why is it a band thing to say that???  I don't get it.  I am not mocking him and if it was the "Axl Rose Band" i wouldn't be any less excited.  What is up with the semantics on this? 

[oldgunsfan]

Guns N' Roses is a band, Axl Rose is the leader of the band...what's the big deal? It's been always that way

Not anymore, Guns N Roses is a Brand and Axl Rose owns it.....and he uses it to distribute his music....but that's just semantics......to say it's a band when you don't know who the drummer is, or which guitarists are still in the band is a stretch......but I'm looking forward to hearing Chinese Democracy when it's released and seeing them tour when it is released

[GunnerOne 84]

this has nothing to do with NR but wasn't it more like the band and axl didn't want NR on AFD because it wasn't ready and all shit? axl wanted to do the song justice and couldn't do that with like the afd budget and everything.. i think the plan all along was to have a bad ass first record then the monstrosity began..

aaaaannnyyyywwwaaaaaayyyyyyy....

of course axl is the leader and all.. he's the only one who ever gets all the shit and is being held responsible, since he is that guy he deserevs to make the decisions that he's gonna get shit for anyway, why not support him for it

I thought NR and Don't Cry were held off AFD because they didn't fit with the overall theme and sound of the record?

[oldgunsfan]

Guns N' Roses is a band, Axl Rose is the leader of the band...what's the big deal? It's been always that way

No, not to this degree, it has not.  If Axl had the same power he had now, November Rain would have been on appetite.

Sorry...didn't know that you're friend of Axl. How do you know that? Do you know what are you saying?

Axl always was the key on Guns N' Roses. Face it.

Axl fought to have NR on Appetite, the other band members said no, NR resurfaced for UYI........ FACT.

All the interviews I read said they held back November Rain because they wanted a balls out rock record....I also don't think they had finished it as Axl was kicking that song around since 1984; they also held back Don't Cry fpr the same reason

[Smoking Guns]

Guns N' Roses is a band, Axl Rose is the leader of the band...what's the big deal? It's been always that way

No, not to this degree, it has not.  If Axl had the same power he had now, November Rain would have been on appetite.

Sorry...didn't know that you're friend of Axl. How do you know that? Do you know what are you saying?

Axl always was the key on Guns N' Roses. Face it.

Axl fought to have NR on Appetite, the other band members said no, NR resurfaced for UYI........ FACT.

All the interviews I read said they held back November Rain because they wanted a balls out rock record....I also don't think they had finished it as Axl was kicking that song around since 1984; they also held back Don't Cry fpr the same reason

True, but Axl did want it on Appetite and Slash said the band decided to keep it a balls out rock record.

[CheapJon]

this has nothing to do with NR but wasn't it more like the band and axl didn't want NR on AFD because it wasn't ready and all shit? axl wanted to do the song justice and couldn't do that with like the afd budget and everything.. i think the plan all along was to have a bad ass first record then the monstrosity began..

aaaaannnyyyywwwaaaaaayyyyyyy....

of course axl is the leader and all.. he's the only one who ever gets all the shit and is being held responsible, since he is that guy he deserevs to make the decisions that he's gonna get shit for anyway, why not support him for it

I thought NR and Don't Cry were held off AFD because they didn't fit with the overall theme and sound of the record?

i kinda meant to add that too.. but as i said, this thread is about what? well not afd or nr that's for sure