Robin leaving? Just touring?

[freddiebrph]

If that's the rules of the game I suggest someone should have enlightened the band members a long time ago and told them to refrain from saying it was "nearly done" or "ready for mastering". You can't speak one certain way and do another.

There's no rules. It's just common sense.

Just like it's common sense that 90% done doesn't mean finished!


Amusing, we're now discussing things that I assumed people knew. Like the fact that sometimes you might be able to do a lot of work in a short time, but then the last part to finish the work takes a lot longer than what you already spent. Or that just because you see the end of a project doesn't mean it will get finished in a week, month or year.

Sometimes people realize they could do things better and start over. Sometimes they decide the project isn't needed after all so it's canceled altogether.

And before somebody says I'm talking about GN'R, I'm not. I'm giving you some general examples of how things work.

EVERYTHING you said is correct. The only problem is we are on a message board where we are only allowed to say positive things. Even to suggest any frustration, and the post gets deleted.

 

Everything he said is his opinion.

Don't confuse facts with opinions.


FYI: Since you're so clever and have figured out how this board works, maybe you can go and post about your frustrations in the right place?

Say hello to your new home on the board: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=49910.0

Maybe we don't need to read about your "frustration" in every other thread and that's why the posts disappear?

Nooooo, can't be!



Now, would one of you "frustrated and informed" GN'R fans tell me how this Dead Hrse topic is related to Robin's status in the band?





/jarmo

Maybe the same fan can let us know why the band just cant answer it like any other normal band?

[Jim Bob]

Maybe the same fan can let us know why the band just cant answer it like any other normal band?

quit complaining.  you are here by choice and they don't owe you one single thing.

[freddiebrph]

Maybe the same fan can let us know why the band just cant answer it like any other normal band?

quit complaining.  you are here by choice and they don't owe you one single thing.

Thanks for making my point. Who the heck said they owe me anything? Talk about "dead horse" that stupid saying has been beat down for good now. I want to hear some new music from my favorite band, and somehow I am complaining? right!

[Death Cube K]

And before somebody says I'm talking about GN'R, I'm not. I'm giving you some general examples of how things work.

So I take it 8 years is common to get music released. It's not. This is not how things normally work.

Just like it's common sense that 90% done doesn't mean finished!

Common sense told the band members the album was near completion and told the media. The media, using their common sense, reported the news stating the GNR album was very close to being released. Common sense in the music world and the media evolves around "close to being released" as an album being released the following months or the following year from when it was reported. Not 4, not 5 and not 8. If an artist scrap a project, the artist tells the media and its fans so they won't be hanging dry waiting for a ghost.

Sometimes people realize they could do things better and start over.

And sometimes if that's the case, they should maybe tell people that and not keep them tricked into thinking something is close to being done. I have for one, thought this project was close to being done since 2001. And I never based it on guesses, I based it on what the band told the media, if not anything else than vaguely.

[Thorned Rose]

facts and opinions...

he's a fact...

it's been 15 years since a studio album, 17 since original material

we've had 1 new original song in the last 9 years.

another fact is that this is the worst band/fans relationship I've ever seen

another fact.... Gn'R is still awesome after all this, but it's bullshit

gobble it up, ridicule me... it's a cliche of this board. lol

[jarmo]

Maybe the same fan can let us know why the band just cant answer it like any other normal band?

The Robin situation has been answered.

So I take it 8 years is common to get music released. It's not. This is not how things normally work.

Didn't I just say that I wasn't talking about GN'R?

Didn't I just explain to you how things don't always go according to plan. I'm happy that your life is perfect and everything always goes to plan and you're never delayed.

Common sense told the band members the album was near completion and told the media. The media, using their common sense, reported the news stating the GNR album was very close to being released. Common sense in the music world and the media evolves around "close to being released" as an album being released the following months or the following year from when it was reported. Not 4, not 5 and not 8. If an artist scrap a project, the artist tells the media and its fans so they won't be hanging dry waiting for a ghost.

 

I just explained it to you but it didn't make any kind of impression on you at all. I just explained that even thought things seem like they'll be finished soon, they might not.

This obviously makes no sense to you!

I can't help you with that. Maybe you'll experience it in real life one day and then you'll have that "aha, that's what he meant" moment.


"The band telling the media", fucking hell.

So they thought it'd be out in 2002 or 2004.

GN'R also hoped to have the follow up for Appetite out in like 1989. Are you still upset that you were "lied to"?


You are not owed anything. Try to get it by now and you'll feel a lot better. 






/jarmo

[freddiebrph]

Maybe the same fan can let us know why the band just cant answer it like any other normal band?

The Robin situation has been answered.













/jarmo

was the answer "robin is Robin, only he knows"?  or did I miss an answer with substance

[jarmo]

was the answer "robin is Robin, only he knows"?  or did I miss an answer with substance

As I said, the situation was addressed.

Your personal unhappiness doesn't change that fact.




/jarmo

[younggunner]

As I said, the situation was addressed.

Your personal unhappiness doesn't change that fact.

the Robin situation hasnt been addressed. If it was there wouldnt be 140 pgs of discussion

The situation, like many other gnr situations, has been left open to interpret. Which is fine, but then we dont need people complaining about speculation. It comes with the territory.

The way I interpret Axls statement is that he is leaving he door open for Robin to return but he is not sure why Robin did what he did. And from Robins side his silence tells me he is gone.

Others dont see it that way.

As a result we have speculation and back n forth discussion

[ppbebe]

Robin is touring with NIN till there's a GNR tour. He isn't out till he is.  That's enough for now as

some think the band shouldn't say a thing when it might change later. Who knows the future.

[younggunner]

Robin is touring with NIN till there's a GNR tour.

I must have missed it. Who said he will be back when there is a GNR tour?

[mrbucketfoot]

As I said, the situation was addressed.

Addressed, but not resolved.

[ppbebe]

Robin is touring with NIN till there's a GNR tour.

I must have missed it. Who said he will be back when there is a GNR tour?

who said 'he will be back' ? I said no one knew the future. Whether robin make it or not would be the gambling bit, I guess.

what the band says is

"When we begin to put tour plans together, we'll see where things are. Until then, Robin's touring with NIN and we're working with management on our game plans."

[jarmo]

the Robin situation hasnt been addressed. If it was there wouldnt be 140 pgs of discussion

Then tell me what the Guns N' Robin update addressed. Current oil prices? 

Maybe some of you didn't get the answer you wanted and you're still losing sleep over it, but the band addressed the situation.



If you read the update, it's clear that once there's tour plans on the horizon, the situation will be dealt with.

My guess is that that might be when we get more information if we don't get it before. But that's just common sense. 





/jarmo

[Death Cube K]

I'm happy that your life is perfect and everything always goes to plan and you're never delayed.

Great argument to your cause.  I'm speechless now. I thought we weren't using the term "delayed". Wasn't it a process?

The Robin situation has been answered.

Absolutely not. They don't even know themselves. "Only Robin knows what Robin's doing."

I just explained that even thought things seem like they'll be finished soon, they might not.

This obviously makes no sense to you!

It makes sense within a logical time limit.

GN'R also hoped to have the follow up for Appetite out in like 1989. Are you still upset that you were "lied to"?

Weren't overly upset no, as they had already released 2 albums and then released another two albums only two years later, following by yet another two years from then on. They released 4 albums within 7 years. I see a little difference in the situation.

You are not owed anything. Try to get it by now and you'll feel a lot better.

Who said I was demanding anything?

When I'm told, starting around the millennium, that an album is imminently ready for release, I start (as with many others) to wait for something. Within the logical reason and common sense a rational human being will understand these words coming out as "quite soon will we see an album". Repeat this line for about 8 years and the fanbase might start to get a little irritated. Doesn't really matter what happens with the album, with the band itself or anything else we wouldn't know shit about. The last word stands, "it's coming soon".

Feel better? I'm quite good thank you very much and I'm as happy as I can be. This is a discussion, not a mental institution handling depressive effects Chinese Democracy have had on people. Get real.

[jarmo]

Great argument to your cause.  I'm speechless now. I thought we weren't using the term "delayed". Wasn't it a process?

I'll explain it to you again.

All kinds of projects can get delayed. I gave you examples.

But I don't see the creation of art as the same kind of project as say building a house. Building a house might get delayed.

Creating art can just take longer than the creator hoped. You call it a delay because that probably feels comfortable and convenient.


I make a difference between the two. You don't seem to understand any of this and keep mixing things up.

It makes sense within a logical time limit.

As I said, it's not like they've been hired to build a house.....

Weren't overly upset no, as they had already released 2 albums and then released another two albums only two years later, following by yet another two years from then on. They released 4 albums within 7 years. I see a little difference in the situation.

Oh, right.

But the fact is that they had hoped to do something and didn't. Surely, that must upset you.

Who said I was demanding anything?

If you weren't demanding something, shouldn't you be a bit more mellow?

for example, if you don't expect constant updates on nothing, then it might not bother you when there's no updates...

When I'm told, starting around the millennium, that an album is imminently ready for release, I start (as with many others) to wait for something. Within the logical reason and common sense a rational human being will understand these words coming out as "quite soon will we see an album". Repeat this line for about 8 years and the fanbase might start to get a little irritated. Doesn't really matter what happens with the album, with the band itself or anything else we wouldn't know shit about. The last word stands, "it's coming soon".

So you are waiting....

But you've been given a little helpful advice regarding the waiting. I'm not gonna quote it because 99% of you know what I mean.

You chose to ignore it.

You chose to "wait" and get frustrated.

Nobody forced you.





/jarmo

[Death Cube K]

You call it a delay because that probably feels comfortable and convenient.

No, I call it a delay because Axl had never planned for it to take so long. When you plan a music album (if it havent evolved into a new spiritual englightement by now) you usually get it out within a reasonable time limit. Unless you're Brian Wilson that is. Going over the logical time limit is a delay. If Axl planned this album to be out in 2010 when he first started out, it's not a delay yet. I'm having a hard time thinking that was his plan.

But the fact is that they had hoped to do something and didn't. Surely, that must upset you.

Are you trying to annoy me or are you actually thinking these are good arguments? 

If you weren't demanding something, shouldn't you be a bit more mellow?

This is a not personal. This is a discussion about an album in the works for over 8 years.

So you are waiting....

If your mother told you 12 hours ago that she would have a cheese cake ready for you in a few minutes, wouldn't you be still waiting and wondering just where the bloody hell it went?

You chose to "wait" and get frustrated.

No, I chose to "wait" and debate why we are "waiting".  Why are you bringing being frustrated into it?

Nobody forced you.

To stick around? Absolutely not, but I'm sure in your world I make no sense, since I choose to stick around being frustrated, sad and upset all the time.

[Perfect Criminal]

The simple undeniable fact is that there is great reason for concern, frustration and hope for GNR fans.  Everyone should be able to agree of those points.

On topic, IMO, the longer Robin goes without giving his status, the worse the outlook becomes. 

[ShotgunBlues1978]

Maybe Robin doesn't even know yet.  Anyone ever think of that?  The man has a family and bills to pay like everyone else, perhaps he wasn't willing to pass up an opportunity to make a ton of money while sitting around waiting for something to happen in the GnR camp.  Maybe Trent made him the proverbial offer he couldn't refuse.  Best case scenario the GnR album will be out this fall/winter.  Here's the title of the tour Robin is confirmed for "Nine Inch Nails: Lights In The Sky, Over North America 2008."  This tour runs through September.  At this point, the logical conclusion to draw would be that Robin decided he will play the tour and then evaluate his situation afterwards. 

[bodine]

I'll explain it to you again.

All kinds of projects can get delayed. I gave you examples.

But I don't see the creation of art as the same kind of project as say building a house. Building a house might get delayed.

Creating art can just take longer than the creator hoped. You call it a delay because that probably feels comfortable and convenient.


I make a difference between the two. You don't seem to understand any of this and keep mixing things up.

When an artist is chartered to perform some specific work, for example when Michelangelo was chartered to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, are they given deadlines?  No sarcasm intended, I do not know the answer for sure.  My point being, I guess, is that Guns N' Roses was/is engaged in some sort of contract with a record label, and thus required to produce some specified amount of material.  I would guess that there's some kind of time requirement in the contract, but I'm no subject matter so please someone set that straight.  I think some distinction needs to be made between a freelance artist and a band that is contracted to produce music under the name "Guns N' Roses." 

Conversely, Axl is doing what in his heart is the best thing in the long-run for the band, and by doing so has shown the willingness to suffer the consequences that it brings with eternal negotiations, or the possible defection of band members, ill will with the fans, etc.  So as pissed as we may get that we're not able to buy the product yet, the art, in Axl's mind required the time it took, so we can't really question his integrity.