Robin leaving? Just touring?

[bazgnr]

Jarmo could the album have been released between 2000-2007?

I'm sure it could have been.  That doesn't change the fact that a completed and mastered album can still only be "90%" finished if it doesn't sound the way it's creator wants it to, correct?  I'm not sure it was ever so much about having finished music as it was Axl being completely satisfied with what *was* recorded.  I understand the points everyone is trying to make - as vastly different as they may be - but it doesn't change the fact that people might not be looking at the issue in the same way.

[younggunner]

That's basically what you're saying. The album wasn't finished but could they have released it anyway.

no, what Im saying is that if Axl WANTED to release the album during any point of the time I mentioned he could have.

He and his band members have said on many accounts that the album was done and all that needed to be done was mixing or mastering.

The album has been done at various stages.

I'm sure it could have been.  That doesn't change the fact that a completed and mastered album can still only be "90%" finished if it doesn't sound the way it's creator wants it to, correct?  I'm not sure it was ever so much about having finished music as it was Axl being completely satisfied with what *was* recorded.

True but I think its more than that. If the band has said on various accounts that the album was done, your telling me that all those times the album went to be mixed/mastered it didnt come out right?

I just think it comes down to Axls inability to release the album to the public.


Lets put it this way. If this highly regarded and praised mgmt team cannot deliver CD this yr then who will or can?

Its November 2008 or bust

[mrbucketfoot]

Jarmo could the album have been released between 2000-2007?

No.

For a handful of reasons:

• Firstly that Axl's vocals have improved vastly since 2002 and him working hard at those vocals contribute to the album being finished
  and his voice being at a point where he wants to tour with it.
• Secondly, because in Axl's own words he said that he was in many ways forced into the 2002 tour
  and he wanted to tour and release the album on his own accord.
• Thirdly, because after Buckethead left the band they were trying to find a replacement.
  
• Fourth, there are negotiations and other business aspects that needed to be taken care of first. Until Axl got proper management and found someone he could trust to
  help release the album properly, then it'd just be one big unending fight between him and the record company.

So once you know exactly what issues Axl and the band have had to overcome you can make character judgments against Axl. Until then, quit running your mouth.[/list]

[jarmo]

The album has been done at various stages

Oh right.  

Talk about taking things and twisting them around.



Remember, 90% done means it's good enough for you.

If you're lucky, maybe you get to experience this in some capacity in your every day life.

Like when you go out for a pizza and they take the food away because you're "almost done".

Or your car repair is almost done so it'll be good enough for you.

 


Obviously THE ALBUM WASN'T DONE SINCE IT WASN'T RELEASED!




/jarmo

[younggunner]

because in Axl's own words he said that he was in many ways forced into the 2002 tour
and he wanted to tour and release the album on his own accord.

can you or someone post that quote. I do not remember him saying that.

Thirdly, because after Buckethead left the band they were trying to find a replacement.

What does Bucketheads replacement have to do with the album?

I actually think they held it from being released in the early years because of Bucketheads contributions. That put a delay into it.

Fourth, there are negotiations and other business aspects that needed to be taken care of first. Until Axl got proper management and found someone he could trust to
help release the album properly, then it'd just be one big unending fight between him and the record company.

So now Axl didnt trust Merck?

So once you know exactly what issues Axl and the band have had to overcome you can make character judgments against Axl. Until then, quit running your mouth

Im not running my mouth Im giving an opinion. I personally think there have been times when Axl has been gun shy in releasing the album. Its only natural. he has a lot of pressure on him to deliver a masterpiece. Its understandable. All Im saying is he should have not lead us on during the years. Im not saying he intentionally has at all times but I just think he should have handled things differently.

I have always said the album could have been released right around Rio but thankfully it wasnt. I have always said that Axl and the band werent ready at that time. Then Bucket came along and the band began to take shape and take on  a life of its own.

My main problem has been from 2004ish till now.

[Death Cube K]

That's basically what you're saying. The album wasn't finished but could they have released it anyway.

Hairs breadth? When was that again? 2004? A hairs breadth is 4 years then. Good to know for later. 

We will be around next summer with a bunch of new songs? 2001 was it? I guess "next summer" is any summer for the next 30 years. 

Just around the corner.. 

Close to being done.. 

You'll see it, but I don't know if soon is the word? (in fact he was right on that one) 

They (band members and managers and Axl) have, repeatedly, over the last 8 years hinted, given "news", downright told us, reported to us and anything else you might want to call it, that Chinese Democracy has been very close to being done. When did they ever say "You won't see the album anytime soon". Oh wait, I think Robin said so in 1999. He was fairly right.  I can't remember anyone even hinting that the album would be out "later than sooner".  Not once. In fact, they have made it pretty clear to me over the past 8 years that it was "close to being released". That's what I've interpreted out of their mouths anyone, maybe I got it all wrong?

So basically, the album has been very close to being released since 2001. I wonder what on earth they've been playing at since then. Can't deny the fact that all pointers given to us since 1999 hinted towards a release "sooner than later"?

And still some people thinks it's a big mystery why we start to get a little annoyed??

[spunton]

Robins gone.

The album/music has been complete for years just will never be release. Why well i guess no body knows.

Why would Robin leave the band after a world tour, album around the corner it makes sense that he left as the album will not be out soon/ if  ever.

Its sad but IMO the only reason Axl was forced to tour in 2002 was money no other reason, the last tour the same reason MONEY!!!!

Chinese democarcy Soon........ Not!!!!

[Verasa]

The album has been done at various stages

Oh right.  

Talk about taking things and twisting them around.



Remember, 90% done means it's good enough for you.

If you're lucky, maybe you get to experience this in some capacity in your every day life.

Like when you go out for a pizza and they take the food away because you're "almost done".

Or your car repair is almost done so it'll be good enough for you.

 


Obviously THE ALBUM WASN'T DONE SINCE IT WASN'T RELEASED!




/jarmo

jarmo, axl has said that the album has been done before, but the record company had asked them to go back and re-record and try to make the album better

[russtcb]

Jarmo has said (at least in reply to me) that he honestly believes the album is coming out this year.

I never asked him before this year so I can't say if he believed it prior.

Robin or not, the album is my only focus anymore.

[ppbebe]

axl has said that the album has been done before,

No he hasn't. or quote his words.

 





And still some people thinks it's a big mystery why we start to get a little annoyed??

na. you seem to be having great fun.

[jarmo]

jarmo, axl has said that the album has been done before, but the record company had asked them to go back and re-record and try to make the album better

Well obviously it wasn't done and ready for release then.

You can twist and turn the words around all you want, the fact still remains: It was finished in 2007. So the album that was finished in 2007 possibly couldn't have been finished in 2002.

I don't think it's technically possible to finish the same exact work twice or is it?




To make you and younggunner happy, yeah they could've probably released many albums since 1993 if quality and integrity weren't important. Other bands do just that.  




/jarmo

[younggunner]

I don't think it's technically possible to finish the same exact work twice or is it?

Well when there are multiple versions of the same song, anything is possible

To make you and younggunner happy, yeah they could've probably released many albums since 1993 if quality and integrity weren't important. Other bands do just that

Are you serious with that comment? You act as if GNR is the only band in the world to strive for quality and integrity. So I guess unless you take forever to release an album you arent striving for a quality album?

There was once a band named The Beatles

Stop with the copouts. But if I decide to buy into what your trying to sell I can say, and you will agree, that Axl "sold out" back when the Illusions were released correct?

To play along with your quality and integrity theme...So if Axl Rose is the only artist left in the world who is holding out for quality and integrity then its fair to say that over 10 yrs of making music he hasnt been able to make music  that meets his standards or the publics?

[russtcb]

Since we're already way off topic anyways, here's what I don't get:

Everyone who frequents any of these boards knows Jarmo and his thoughts and opinions on GNR. Furthermore, we're all aware of what he does and doesn't allow on this board. I don't understand why people still come here to bitch about it or try to argue him down on when the album should or shouldn't have been released.

[Verasa]

jarmo, axl has said that the album has been done before, but the record company had asked them to go back and re-record and try to make the album better

Well obviously it wasn't done and ready for release then.

You can twist and turn the words around all you want, the fact still remains: It was finished in 2007. So the album that was finished in 2007 possibly couldn't have been finished in 2002.

I don't think it's technically possible to finish the same exact work twice or is it?




To make you and younggunner happy, yeah they could've probably released many albums since 1993 if quality and integrity weren't important. Other bands do just that.  




/jarmo

listen dude im not twisting words and i dont give a fuck how many albums could of been out. Axl has said in a phone interview the reasons why the album has never came out. he says (paraphrasing) the record company and band went through changes and he had turned material in and the record company said to go back and re-record and take more time, so he did and has.

And how do you know quality and integrity isnt important to me? by saying axl has said he turned a album in before? does that even make sense to you?

[cineater]

Wait when did Axl say that about being done and the record company telling them to go back?  Was that a public statement?  It's been assumed but I didn't think it had been said out loud.  You know, time goes by and you can't remember what was said out loud, what was a secret and what was board talk turned into fact.

[TomFriend]

The difference is you took an off the cuff remark by a band member that was stated as an opinion, not a certainty, as the truth.  I didn't.  And I never took anything said in 2006 as the record was ready for mastering.  That was never said outright, that's for sure.

And again, with the label, they are not going to say they have the album.  When do you ever hear from record labels, "Hey, guess what?  We have the new record from this artist in our possession."?  I've never heard that.

Ali

I don't think a band member stating that an album is ready for mastering to a major internationally distributed music journal is an 'off the cuff remark'.

When the record company has been trying to get its hands on an album - one of the most anticipated albums of all time - for several years and there is endless speculation about the projects status, I'd kinda expect them to say so when they finally had the finished product in their hands. From a financial standpoint, and with the record industry in the state its in, giving your shareholders and financiers advance warning that you had a blockbuster on your hands would be a pretty smart move.

[TomFriend]

To make you and younggunner happy, yeah they could've probably released many albums since 1993 if quality and integrity weren't important. Other bands do just that. 



/jarmo

Yes, really the fact that the band hasn't released an album in 15 years is testament to their credibility. We should be thanking them. Thank god they're not like all those other bands who release music. I don't know what all those morons are thinking.



I'm kidding. Absolutely, if GNR finally release this album and its as mindblowing as we're led to believe, I'll be the first to put my hands up and say I'm glad they didn't churn out an endless succession of sub-par efforts in the interim. I just hope that day comes eventually.

The fact that the record label has made zero mention of receiving a completed version of one of the most highly anticipated records of all time gives some of us cause to question that info.

Maybe they haven't received anything?

Common sense tells me that if you're negotiating something, you wouldn't necessarily just hand over your work if you weren't in total agreement of what's gonna happen next.




But, keep talking about what people hoped and wished for in 2004. That's what you're best at. 

Never mind the fact that the album itself was finished in 2007 and not earlier.



/jarmo

Common sense tells me a record label isn't going to negotiate release terms for an album they've never heard, with zero idea of its hit potential, target audience, singles, what radio stations to target, advertising strategy, best period for release etc. If they've been played the album and are umm-ing and err-ing over whether to take it on, that's even more of a cause for concern than whether or not its finished.

The only reason I 'keep talking about 2004' is because I see a pattern emerging and after years of being disappointed by misinformation and false starts, I'd rather base my hopes on what has happened in the past than what I'd blindly like to happen in the future - the same future that never seems to come.

Since I apparently already have a reputation for dredging up old shit, this from my favourite year may explain my view:

GUNS N' ROSES bassist Tommy Stinson recently told Canada's Chart Attack that the group's long-awaited new album, "Chinese Democracy" is nearing completion. "I would imagine they would start mastering it some time in October, November, somewhere in there".

Jarmo, if you have any info on why GNR fans should be more optimistic about being told that the album is ready for mastering in 2008 than they were in 2004, I'll be happy and reassured to hear it. Basically, that would mean knowing that whatever caused a 4 year delay in 2004 won't happen again.

Wait when did Axl say that about being done and the record company telling them to go back?  Was that a public statement?  It's been assumed but I didn't think it had been said out loud.  You know, time goes by and you can't remember what was said out loud, what was a secret and what was board talk turned into fact.

I think that's all spun off Bob Ezrin supposedly telling Axl that the album didn't have any hits on it, several years ago.

[bodine]

Jarmo has said (at least in reply to me) that he honestly believes the album is coming out this year.

I never asked him before this year so I can't say if he believed it prior.

Robin or not, the album is my only focus anymore.

I'm with you on that one.   

At this point I don't care if they:
 
a) release the album but don't tour till Robin's done,
b) release the album and tour with a new guitarist,
c) release the album and tour with only 2 guitarists,
d) release the album and Robin ditches NIN and they tour,
e) release the album and don't tour at all. 

I have preferences of course but that don't really matter.

[Verasa]

Wait when did Axl say that about being done and the record company telling them to go back?  Was that a public statement?  It's been assumed but I didn't think it had been said out loud.  You know, time goes by and you can't remember what was said out loud, what was a secret and what was board talk turned into fact.

I think that's all spun off Bob Ezrin supposedly telling Axl that the album didn't have any hits on it, several years ago.

no its not, i cant find it but the interview is on youtube. i have listened to it several times and not long ago,which was why i even made the comment. i believe he was talking with a dj either during the 2002 tour or the 2006 tour.
have jarmo send beta a email and ask

to me its funny though that he says he turned in material that was basically sent back but the record companies promised everyone he worked with bonuses if they finished the album by a set date( according to jeff leeds 05' article)

[mrbucketfoot]

Richard and Bumblefoot are perfectly capable for filling in for whom-ever in Robin's stead thatis, if he doesn't tour with them. Fortus is incredibly underrated in the band and immensely talented. It'd mean more work for them, but regardless what the situation is, they can make due with 2 guitarists.

I hope that Brain will be back with Guns on the next tour, no disrespect to Frank, Brain's a longtime favorite of mine. Maybe we can start a thread that goes 140 pages about Brain? 

As for the album, I hope it'll be this year. The band's been working really hard and like when you're on a long run, it hurts and you want to give up sometimes, but you keep pushing, and you eventually finish that 3/5/10 mile run and you feel awesome. Along the way the finish line looked far off, but you kept pushing and before you knew it, you were there. Same thing with the album, GNRs been working hard getting it out, and it seems like they're going to reach the finish line soon. Hopefully.