Robin leaving? Just touring?

[TomFriend]

There are few bands who deliver returns for your devotion as sporadically as GNR. I really wonder if Axl is interested in playing the commanding role in popular music that is reserved for him or not.

You can't blame fans for questioning the info they receive when negotiations have supposedly been going on since Christmas, and we've yet to hear any confirmation from the label that they've even received the album, or further news from the band. Major political maneuvers have been negotiated faster amd more successfully than the release terms for this record.

Robin's failure to comment on his status in the band or his intentions just shows a complete 100% lack of respect for his fanbase. If anyone would like to reassure me with one possible reason why he is unable to comment on whether he is in the band. out of the band or unsure/undecided on his status in the band, I'd love to hear it.

Actually, I can blame fans for questioning the info they receive when there is no logical reason to do so.  The band is working with the label to get the record released and with management on release and promotion strategies.  What more do you want to know?  A blow by blow update?  Is that really necessary or interesting?

Robin's lack of comment may be due to legal reasons or the lack of necessity for a comment.  Either way, he owes the band an explanation more than he owes us.  At this point, Robin's presence or lack thereof has no bearing on the release of the record.

Ali

Actually, I can blame fans for questioning the info they receive when there is no logical reason to do so.  The band is working with the label to get the record released and with management on release and promotion strategies.  What more do you want to know?  A blow by blow update?  Is that really necessary or interesting?

Ok, 6 months with seemingly no progress is cool with you. After being told that the album was ready for mastering by Tommy in 2004 and the various other lies,  some of us are a little skeptical of these updates from the band and would like to see them reiterated by another source. The fact that the record label has made zero mention of receiving a completed version of one of the most highly anticipated records of all time gives some of us cause to question that info.

Robin's lack of comment may be due to legal reasons or the lack of necessity for a comment.  Either way, he owes the band an explanation more than he owes us.  At this point, Robin's presence or lack thereof has no bearing on the release of the record.

There is no way on this planet that Robin is legally prohibited from stating his intent as regards membership of a rock band. I would imagine the concern from fans would be 'necessity for a comment' if he was a decent guy.

Wrong.  Dead wrong.  It's not "6 months with seemingly no progress".  There has been progress made and we have been told so.  GN'R themselves have said that "things are going well" with regards to the negotiations surrounding the record's release.  Mysteron said the same things.  What more do you want?  And why would the label confirm having the completed album before all the outstanding issues regarding its release are resolved?  What sense would that make?

In regards to whether or not Robin can confirm or deny his departure before his contract is up, perhaps you should review some of the articles regarding his first departure and Buckethead's departure.

Ali

I basically said I didn't trust the band's word on progress because we were told by a bandmember in 2004 that the album was ready for mastering. We were then told again in 2006 that the album was ready for mastering. Its now 2008 and there is still no sign of a release date. Telling me the band say 'things are going well' does not reassure me.

In other words, the band have been telling us 'things are going well' since 2002, but in my humble and no doubt clueless opinion things going well doesn't entail 6 intervening years without a release. I have no reason to believe that the current round of 'things going well' is any different than 2002's 'hairs breadth', 2004's 'ready for mastering', '2005's' year of Guns N' Roses, 2006's '13 Tuesdays' and so on and so on.

If the record company said they had the album and were planning a release strategy, that would mean a world of difference to me. The label have never told us a release was close.

As for Robin, a legal gag-order would require a contract - a contract which would not enable him to disappear for an indefinite period with NIN.

[D]

I wonder if RObin is breaching his contract with GNR or anything?

Imagine how sucky it would be if Axl sued RObin..........

[JDA]

The fact that the record label has made zero mention of receiving a completed version of one of the most highly anticipated records of all time gives some of us cause to question that info.

Maybe they haven't received anything?

Common sense tells me that if you're negotiating something, you wouldn't necessarily just hand over your work if you weren't in total agreement of what's gonna happen next.




But, keep talking about what people hoped and wished for in 2004. That's what you're best at. 

Never mind the fact that the album itself was finished in 2007 and not earlier.



/jarmo

I do believe that it is done but why does it take so long for them to release it?  I just don't understand any of that.  Especially, with bands today releasing cds so quickly.  If they really want it out shouldn't it be ultimately up to the band?  Why has it been done before 07' and still not be in the hands of the fans? 

[Ali]

There are few bands who deliver returns for your devotion as sporadically as GNR. I really wonder if Axl is interested in playing the commanding role in popular music that is reserved for him or not.

You can't blame fans for questioning the info they receive when negotiations have supposedly been going on since Christmas, and we've yet to hear any confirmation from the label that they've even received the album, or further news from the band. Major political maneuvers have been negotiated faster amd more successfully than the release terms for this record.

Robin's failure to comment on his status in the band or his intentions just shows a complete 100% lack of respect for his fanbase. If anyone would like to reassure me with one possible reason why he is unable to comment on whether he is in the band. out of the band or unsure/undecided on his status in the band, I'd love to hear it.

Actually, I can blame fans for questioning the info they receive when there is no logical reason to do so.  The band is working with the label to get the record released and with management on release and promotion strategies.  What more do you want to know?  A blow by blow update?  Is that really necessary or interesting?

Robin's lack of comment may be due to legal reasons or the lack of necessity for a comment.  Either way, he owes the band an explanation more than he owes us.  At this point, Robin's presence or lack thereof has no bearing on the release of the record.

Ali

Actually, I can blame fans for questioning the info they receive when there is no logical reason to do so.  The band is working with the label to get the record released and with management on release and promotion strategies.  What more do you want to know?  A blow by blow update?  Is that really necessary or interesting?

Ok, 6 months with seemingly no progress is cool with you. After being told that the album was ready for mastering by Tommy in 2004 and the various other lies,  some of us are a little skeptical of these updates from the band and would like to see them reiterated by another source. The fact that the record label has made zero mention of receiving a completed version of one of the most highly anticipated records of all time gives some of us cause to question that info.

Robin's lack of comment may be due to legal reasons or the lack of necessity for a comment.  Either way, he owes the band an explanation more than he owes us.  At this point, Robin's presence or lack thereof has no bearing on the release of the record.

There is no way on this planet that Robin is legally prohibited from stating his intent as regards membership of a rock band. I would imagine the concern from fans would be 'necessity for a comment' if he was a decent guy.

Wrong.  Dead wrong.  It's not "6 months with seemingly no progress".  There has been progress made and we have been told so.  GN'R themselves have said that "things are going well" with regards to the negotiations surrounding the record's release.  Mysteron said the same things.  What more do you want?  And why would the label confirm having the completed album before all the outstanding issues regarding its release are resolved?  What sense would that make?

In regards to whether or not Robin can confirm or deny his departure before his contract is up, perhaps you should review some of the articles regarding his first departure and Buckethead's departure.

Ali

I basically said I didn't trust the band's word on progress because we were told by a bandmember in 2004 that the album was ready for mastering. We were then told again in 2006 that the album was ready for mastering. Its now 2008 and there is still no sign of a release date. Telling me the band say 'things are going well' does not reassure me.

In other words, the band have been telling us 'things are going well' since 2002, but in my humble and no doubt clueless opinion things going well doesn't entail 6 intervening years without a release. I have no reason to believe that the current round of 'things going well' is any different than 2002's 'hairs breadth', 2004's 'ready for mastering', '2005's' year of Guns N' Roses, 2006's '13 Tuesdays' and so on and so on.

If the record company said they had the album and were planning a release strategy, that would mean a world of difference to me. The label have never told us a release was close.

As for Robin, a legal gag-order would require a contract - a contract which would not enable him to disappear for an indefinite period with NIN.

The difference is you took an off the cuff remark by a band member that was stated as an opinion, not a certainty, as the truth.  I didn't.  And I never took anything said in 2006 as the record was ready for mastering.  That was never said outright, that's for sure.

And again, with the label, they are not going to say they have the album.  When do you ever hear from record labels, "Hey, guess what?  We have the new record from this artist in our possession."?  I've never heard that.

Ali

[Verasa]

I wonder if RObin is breaching his contract with GNR or anything?

Imagine how sucky it would be if Axl sued RObin..........

i bet robin isnt under contract right now


i dont know why everybody is so mad,  its what we've been going through for years.

[Death Cube K]

I basically said I didn't trust the band's word on progress because we were told by a bandmember in 2004 that the album was ready for mastering. We were then told again in 2006 that the album was ready for mastering. Its now 2008 and there is still no sign of a release date. Telling me the band say 'things are going well' does not reassure me.

In other words, the band have been telling us 'things are going well' since 2002, but in my humble and no doubt clueless opinion things going well doesn't entail 6 intervening years without a release. I have no reason to believe that the current round of 'things going well' is any different than 2002's 'hairs breadth', 2004's 'ready for mastering', '2005's' year of Guns N' Roses, 2006's '13 Tuesdays' and so on and so on.

If the record company said they had the album and were planning a release strategy, that would mean a world of difference to me. The label have never told us a release was close.

As for Robin, a legal gag-order would require a contract - a contract which would not enable him to disappear for an indefinite period with NIN.

Excellent post.

[jarmo]

The fact that the record label has made zero mention of receiving a completed version of one of the most highly anticipated records of all time gives some of us cause to question that info.

Maybe they haven't received anything?

Common sense tells me that if you're negotiating something, you wouldn't necessarily just hand over your work if you weren't in total agreement of what's gonna happen next.




But, keep talking about what people hoped and wished for in 2004. That's what you're best at. 

Never mind the fact that the album itself was finished in 2007 and not earlier.



/jarmo

I do believe that it is done but why does it take so long for them to release it?  I just don't understand any of that.  Especially, with bands today releasing cds so quickly.  If they really want it out shouldn't it be ultimately up to the band?  Why has it been done before 07' and still not be in the hands of the fans? 

Why are so many artists unhappy with the record companies and putting out albums on their own instead?





/jarmo

[younggunner]

I basically said I didn't trust the band's word on progress because we were told by a bandmember in 2004 that the album was ready for mastering. We were then told again in 2006 that the album was ready for mastering.

you meant to tell me that the album was done and could have been released as early as 2004? cmon you cant be serious 

Do you people really believe negotiations for an album release take over a year? It's been a year and a half since Axl gave a tentative release, and about a year since we were told negotiations were underway. I'm sorry, but most albums are brainstormed, recorded, mixed, mastered, produced and released in less time than this -- and yet for GN'R this is the time period needed for "negotiations." (And they're still not even done, which is the funniest part of it all.) If you guys honestly believe a record company holding an expensive album like Chinese Democracy would put up with two-year negotiations just for the release... I've got a bridge to sell you.

Doesn't anyone wonder why Geffen/Universal has yet to comment on this fiasco? Don't you find that a bit odd? If they're telling the truth, and it's a hold-up on the record company's side and the record company is a bunch of douchebags who would kill their own product for no apparent reason, don't you find it the least bit strange that every time something is even implied to the opposite the yes-men come rushing here to shut us up and attack us? If what they were saying was true, they wouldn't have to adamantly defend Axl and the band so often and insult us. They would feel confident telling us the truth. Instead, they flock here like a bunch of bullies and insult people for not placing the faith of Jesus in Axl Rose.

People keep bringing Azoff up as proof that negotiations are underway. To that extent, yes, I think negotiations are under way - but not in the fashion Beta and Del James would like you to believe.

Azoff was brought in as another effort by the record company to get Axl Rose to release his album. They've been hiring managers and producers for over a decade to get him to release this album. Each and every time it has been him holding up the release by everyone's accounts -- remember Moby's stories? Remember the CDs being run over by the car? Remember what Youth had to say? And Wylde? Are they all unmotivated liars who want to see Axl burn for no reason? Um, no. They saw what it was like and they told the truth. It's no different this time. It's Axl again, and anyone that believes the record company is holding this back is a dum-dum. When you have a track record like Axl's, and you've been exposed so many times for 'twisting' words to your advantage ("You'll hear music this year!" = you'll hear them playing live), I just don't understand why anyone would ever continue believing his sympathy tales. He tries to paint himself as the misunderstood, disadvantaged poor soul. The truth is he's one of the most privileged artists in the world - he was given millions upon millions of dollars to make the most expensive album ever made, he retained full control over his original band name, he's had the trust of his record label to tour three times (even after a cancellation after a riot!), and he's a millionaire. But he still has the peanut gallery try to paint a portrait of the poor misunderstood underdog. Just put the fucking album out already and cut the shit.

excellent post


This whole ride has been odd. We havnt had any updates in quite sometime. If 2008 isnt the year, then can we sit here and really believe this album is coming out? What will be the excuse if it doesnt show up in 08? WHos fault will it be? What unforseen circumstances will have put a hault to "negotiations"?

Originally I thought Robin left because he just was done with GNR but in a sorta good way. But no one can explain to me, including Robin, why he would leave when the album is about to be released??? Maybe RObin is being silent for a reason. Maybe he left because of what we know in the back of our minds but dont want to believe. Maybe he left because the album isnt going to be released this year and he doesnt want to spill the beans.

One of the most amazing things that has stuck out at me over the years has been the lack of a gameplan by Axl. I always thought Axl had some cool comeback plan. With all the downtime back in the early 2000's, I always thought a comeback strategy was already planned out. It was just a matter of getting the album to what it needs to be. I thought all the other stuff would be have been long thought of and figured out.

I dont care about what anyone says in regards to thisbut the album could have been released at any point from 2000-till now. It has been done numerous times. If you dont think so then I dont know how to characterize your thinking or logic. So I wont even put it into words.

The holdup is very simple. Yea there have been some unforseen bumps and obstacles along the way but ultimately it has come down to Axls inability to hand it in and release it. And I can put up and respect that. This album is his life and if it fails it will tarnish his legacy.

But what Axl should have done in retrospect is not lead us on every 6 months.

[jarmo]

I dont care about what anyone says in regards to thisbut the album could have been released at any point from 2000-till now. It has been done numerous times.

Aren't you the same guy who basically admitted that you had twisted "almost done" and 90% done into meaning it was finished?

 


Of course you don't care what anyone says!

It's the easiest way to always be right.....



Regarding a gameplan. Are you serious?

Do you see anybody else generating so much interest all around the world like Axl? Without him even promoting himself.

Poor Jon Bon Jovi was even jealous of that! 





/jarmo

[younggunner]

Aren't you the same guy who basically admitted that you had twisted "almost done" and 90% done into meaning it was finished?

 

Almost done and 90% done mean that the album is finished and could be released

Regarding a gameplan. Are you serious?

Do you see anybody else generating so much interest all around the world like Axl? Without him even promoting himself.

The question isnt if Im serious its if your serious? IDk about what you hear and read but I hear more negative press regarding Axl than negative.  I think the written press has been more fair over the past few years but radio still jokes about Axl and CD.

Do you think this whole process has been positive for Axl and his image? Axl is made fun of more than he is praised. So if thats what you call interest than so be it.

[jarmo]

Almost done and 90% done mean that the album is finished and could be released

And ladies and gentlemen, there we have what I was talking about.

I hope you live by that motto.

The question isnt if Im serious its if your serious? IDk about what you hear and read but I hear more negative press regarding Axl than negative.  I think the written press has been more fair over the past few years but radio still jokes about Axl and CD.

Do you think this whole process has been positive for Axl and his image? Axl is made fun of more than he is praised. So if thats what you call interest than so be it.

It's always been like that.

No matter what you do. No matter how many sold out tours and multiplatinum albums you put out.

Radio DJs makes fun of people and the media like to focus on negativity and bullshit.

Go and listen to the track on Use Your Illusion II called 14 Years. Describes it pretty nicely.

It's not specific to GN'R either.



The media isn't any different than the rest of us. Some of us focus on other things besides negativity and others just can't do that.

They're the kind of people who'll be at a show with 15000-50000 people and say "I saw people leaving during the set". 





/jarmo

[Ali]

I basically said I didn't trust the band's word on progress because we were told by a bandmember in 2004 that the album was ready for mastering. We were then told again in 2006 that the album was ready for mastering.

you meant to tell me that the album was done and could have been released as early as 2004? cmon you cant be serious 

Do you people really believe negotiations for an album release take over a year? It's been a year and a half since Axl gave a tentative release, and about a year since we were told negotiations were underway. I'm sorry, but most albums are brainstormed, recorded, mixed, mastered, produced and released in less time than this -- and yet for GN'R this is the time period needed for "negotiations." (And they're still not even done, which is the funniest part of it all.) If you guys honestly believe a record company holding an expensive album like Chinese Democracy would put up with two-year negotiations just for the release... I've got a bridge to sell you.

Doesn't anyone wonder why Geffen/Universal has yet to comment on this fiasco? Don't you find that a bit odd? If they're telling the truth, and it's a hold-up on the record company's side and the record company is a bunch of douchebags who would kill their own product for no apparent reason, don't you find it the least bit strange that every time something is even implied to the opposite the yes-men come rushing here to shut us up and attack us? If what they were saying was true, they wouldn't have to adamantly defend Axl and the band so often and insult us. They would feel confident telling us the truth. Instead, they flock here like a bunch of bullies and insult people for not placing the faith of Jesus in Axl Rose.

People keep bringing Azoff up as proof that negotiations are underway. To that extent, yes, I think negotiations are under way - but not in the fashion Beta and Del James would like you to believe.

Azoff was brought in as another effort by the record company to get Axl Rose to release his album. They've been hiring managers and producers for over a decade to get him to release this album. Each and every time it has been him holding up the release by everyone's accounts -- remember Moby's stories? Remember the CDs being run over by the car? Remember what Youth had to say? And Wylde? Are they all unmotivated liars who want to see Axl burn for no reason? Um, no. They saw what it was like and they told the truth. It's no different this time. It's Axl again, and anyone that believes the record company is holding this back is a dum-dum. When you have a track record like Axl's, and you've been exposed so many times for 'twisting' words to your advantage ("You'll hear music this year!" = you'll hear them playing live), I just don't understand why anyone would ever continue believing his sympathy tales. He tries to paint himself as the misunderstood, disadvantaged poor soul. The truth is he's one of the most privileged artists in the world - he was given millions upon millions of dollars to make the most expensive album ever made, he retained full control over his original band name, he's had the trust of his record label to tour three times (even after a cancellation after a riot!), and he's a millionaire. But he still has the peanut gallery try to paint a portrait of the poor misunderstood underdog. Just put the fucking album out already and cut the shit.

excellent post


This whole ride has been odd. We havnt had any updates in quite sometime. If 2008 isnt the year, then can we sit here and really believe this album is coming out? What will be the excuse if it doesnt show up in 08? WHos fault will it be? What unforseen circumstances will have put a hault to "negotiations"?

Originally I thought Robin left because he just was done with GNR but in a sorta good way. But no one can explain to me, including Robin, why he would leave when the album is about to be released??? Maybe RObin is being silent for a reason. Maybe he left because of what we know in the back of our minds but dont want to believe. Maybe he left because the album isnt going to be released this year and he doesnt want to spill the beans.

One of the most amazing things that has stuck out at me over the years has been the lack of a gameplan by Axl. I always thought Axl had some cool comeback plan. With all the downtime back in the early 2000's, I always thought a comeback strategy was already planned out. It was just a matter of getting the album to what it needs to be. I thought all the other stuff would be have been long thought of and figured out.

I dont care about what anyone says in regards to thisbut the album could have been released at any point from 2000-till now. It has been done numerous times. If you dont think so then I dont know how to characterize your thinking or logic. So I wont even put it into words.

The holdup is very simple. Yea there have been some unforseen bumps and obstacles along the way but ultimately it has come down to Axls inability to hand it in and release it. And I can put up and respect that. This album is his life and if it fails it will tarnish his legacy.

But what Axl should have done in retrospect is not lead us on every 6 months.

What you cited as an excellent post (missed the original), is in actuality an incredibly uninformed post.

I read the last paragraph first for some reason and I had to roll my eyes.  Azoff was brought in by the record company?  I don't think so.  Record companies don't hire managers for artists.  Artists hire managers for themselves. 

That statement alone invalidates whatever insight may be provided in the rest of the post.

Ali

[younggunner]

And ladies and gentlemen, there we have what I was talking about.

I hope you live by that motto.

make a poll saying do you believe CD was finished and could have been released fromm 2000-2007. yes or no....id bet the majority would vote yes

[D]

lets be real, we dont even know if that article on Jon Bon Jovi was even true. I find it hard to believe that he could give a shit about what press Axl generated.


The true test will be once Axl releases CD, if people still have that same kind of interest once he is back in the public eye for a few years. Its easy to get a wave of attention when u have been out of the spotlight for so long, keeping that wave of attention is a whole nother ballgame.


I agree with Youngunner.

I do, also, find it very very impossible to believe that if the album was being released Robin would go back to NIN. Cause once the album is released, the band are in for a decade of touring, album releases and a huge huge workload.

so if the album were coming out, Id say the bandmembers would be getting their final rest and prepping for the long ass tour that will follow.

[Jim Bob]

What you cited as an excellent post (missed the original), is in actuality an incredibly uninformed post.

I read the last paragraph first for some reason and I had to roll my eyes.  Azoff was brought in by the record company?  I don't think so.  Record companies don't hire managers for artists.  Artists hire managers for themselves. 

That statement alone invalidates whatever insight may be provided in the rest of the post.

Ali

i didn't see the original either and you are absolutely correct.

[jarmo]

And ladies and gentlemen, there we have what I was talking about.

I hope you live by that motto.

make a poll saying do you believe CD was finished and could have been released fromm 2000-2007. yes or no....id bet the majority would vote yes

Why not make a poll whether or not people think a job 90% done is finished. That's what you're saying.

Close enough isn't always enough.




/jarmo

[Farid Bak]

And ladies and gentlemen, there we have what I was talking about.

I hope you live by that motto.

make a poll saying do you believe CD was finished and could have been released fromm 2000-2007. yes or no....id bet the majority would vote yes

Why not make a poll whether or not people think a job 90% done is finished. That's what you're saying.

Close enough isn't always enough.




/jarmo

yea and we are almost close enough to hear CD 

[younggunner]

Jarmo could the album have been released between 2000-2007?

[jarmo]

Jarmo could the album have been released between 2000-2007?

If it had been completely finished to the point where they were happy with it and ready to release it.

Obviously, when you're 90% done, it's not at that point.


Were the Mets close to winning the World Series last year? They didn't make the series but could they have won it anyway.

That's basically what you're saying. The album wasn't finished but could they have released it anyway. 



/jarmo

[mrbucketfoot]

I hope we hear something soon. The album like the situation with Robin is as Bumblefoot puts it "the giant elephant in the room...how can you not notice it?"