Robin leaving? Just touring?

[ppbebe]

Overall, I look at Robin's departure as a positive. I honestly think he held the band back from evolving to it's fullest potential. What guns needs is a lead guitar player who can take this band to the next level. That somebody was not Robin Finck.

I just hope Robin's departure doesn't force Axl to delay this album for too many more years. 

is nay ironic that robins on the album you're drooling about?

[Ali]

People forget that when Buckethead left, Tommy Stinson indicated he wasn't worried about the lack of guitar playing ability and how it would affect the band:

"As far as I know, he hasn't been replaced, but we already have enough guitarists," Stinson said. "We have Robin Finck and Richard Fortus, and Buckethead will be on the record, too."

.............

Ali

[WARose]

Did you notice how they managed to go on without Buckethead? It seemed like people at the shows weren't missing him. Except you and a few others.
 
Why is that? Because Axl's still there!

97% of the people at the shows didn`t even know that buckethead was ever in the band. they probably don`t even know him. 97% of the people at the shows were fans of the old band and just went to see axl. they didn?t care for anyone besides him.

what matters in this case is the opinion of those who follow the band since 2001/2002. a new fanbase built up between 2002 and 2006. a fanbase of the new gnr. of course axl is the most important member now and has always been, but a lot of people (including me) came to know and love the new line up and considered the 2002 line up to be something to stay.

it`s just natural, that those people are disappointed and frustrated, when axl is forced to replace top-notch musicians with second class ones...   i`m willing to bet, that axl wants these people back as well. the interviews he gave after robin`s departure in 1999 and del`s column from 2006 prove that...

[HBK]

Did you notice how they managed to go on without Buckethead? It seemed like people at the shows weren't missing him. Except you and a few others.
 
Why is that? Because Axl's still there!

97% of the people at the shows didn`t even know that buckethead was ever in the band. they probably don`t even know him. 97% of the people at the shows were fans of the old band and just went to see axl. they didn?t care for anyone besides him.

what matters in this case is the opinion of those who follow the band since 2001/2002. a new fanbase built up between 2002 and 2006. a fanbase of the new gnr. of course axl is the most important member now and has always been, but a lot of people (including me) came to know and love the new line up and considered the 2002 line up to be something to stay.

it`s just natural, that those people are disappointed and frustrated, when axl is forced to replace top-notch musicians with second class ones...  i`m willing to bet, that axl wants these people back as well. the interviews he gave after robin`s departure in 1999 and del`s column from 2006 prove that...

... GUNS N' ROSES Exist !!!

 

HBK *

[younggunner]

Buckethead was the so called star, then it was Robin... Do you see a pattern here?

yes, two great guitarists have left the band.

You don't think it'll work out that way in the future either with Robin or whoever occupies that position in GN'R?

With Robin yes, but with Bfoot and Fortus no.

I also believe that Richard and Ron are more than capable of stepping up to that "star thing" if needed. They all played solos during the shows which proved that the band isn't just about one lead guitar player. They're all very capable guitar players.

They are def capable of playing the material. No doubt. But imo, niether could become a star. You either have it or you dont. You cant step up and become an instant hit. Bucket had that. Bucket is like Axl. He has the "it".

People will talk about Bucket. He has the image and playing ability. Fortus can play the material but hes a regular guitarist. Same with Bfoot.

I would rather have had Fortus play lead with Robin rather than Bfoot to be honest.

I dont think your getting my point though. You and many others say that GNR will move on. And they will. But the point is that you cant move on and expect to recreate something special again. Special doesnt come around with the next hire. Old GNR was special. New GNR for a span of about 4 yrs were special. They had the "it" . They had a guitarist who can coincide with Axl.

As memebers leave it becomes more of a solo project in regards to the touring aspect.


I would bet anything that if Axl had his choice he would rather have the 2002 lineup than any other new gnr  lineup.

[greekmule]

Bucket is like Axl. He has the "it".

m8 i dig that you like buckethead a lot but this is just plain BS.

in regards to charisma only a handful of musicians in the world have been at the same level with axl rose and buckethead is cartainly not one of them.

sometimes i think that new fans of gnr do not get how legendary axl fuckin rose is

[younggunner]

m8 i dig that you like buckethead a lot but this is just plain BS.

in regards to charisma only a handful of musicians in the world have been at the same level with axl rose and buckethead is cartainly not one of them.

sometimes i think that new fans of gnr do not get how legendary axl fuckin rose is

true that. noone can hold a candle to Axl. I agree. What I mean is that Bucket has the ability to get people to talk and focus on him and the band rather than juts Axl,Slash and the old lineup.

[WARose]

I would bet anything that if Axl had his choice he would rather have the 2002 lineup than any other new gnr  lineup.

i wholeheartedly agree with you! and it`d be my choice as well

[Bruno Poeys]

People will talk about Bucket. He has the image and playing ability. Fortus can play the material but hes a regular guitarist. Same with Bfoot.

you're looking like a retarded and people are laughing at you. Please stop saying that. You'll be a laughing stock if you dont.

I dont think your getting my point though. You and many others say that GNR will move on. And they will. But the point is that you cant move on and expect to recreate something special again. Special doesnt come around with the next hire. Old GNR was special. New GNR for a span of about 4 yrs were special. They had the "it" . They had a guitarist who can coincide with Axl.

Truth is: Joe Satriani recommended Ron to Axl, so he probably knew that Ron would be the guitarist that Axl needed. Should i hear Joe Satriani or younggunner?

I would bet anything that if Axl had his choice he would rather have the 2002 lineup than any other new gnr  lineup.

Wrong. He would rather have the 1985 lineup.

[jarmo]

They are def capable of playing the material. No doubt. But imo, niether could become a star. You either have it or you dont. You cant step up and become an instant hit. Bucket had that. Bucket is like Axl. He has the "it".

Your opinion. I'm sure you can find a bunch of people who don't agree with you. 

People will talk about Bucket. He has the image and playing ability. 

You must've forgotten that his image caused a lot of people to dislike him and automatically disregard him as a joke.


A similar thing happened with Robin in 2002. People said he looked out of place.

Fortus can play the material but hes a regular guitarist. Same with Bfoot.

Bumblefoot was recommended by Satriani.

Regular?

 


I guess if Richard wore a mask he wouldn't be considered "regular" either.

I'm not saying Buckethead was a lousy guitar player, I'm saying they're all great in different ways. They all added something to the mix. The band.

I would rather have had Fortus play lead with Robin rather than Bfoot to be honest.

Uh, ok.

But the point is that you cant move on and expect to recreate something special again. Special doesnt come around with the next hire. Old GNR was special. New GNR for a span of about 4 yrs were special. They had the "it" . They had a guitarist who can coincide with Axl.

Oh please. I got your point a while back.

The shows I saw in Japan in 2007 were special and there wasn't anybody in a bucket involved.


Old GN'R was special? No shit. That's what made many of us fans. But they changed over the years. Just like the current band. Yet, some of us are still here.

As I've said before, nobody seems to pay attention to it though, it's a band that's a sum of its parts. And having Axl in the band gives them a huge advantage.





/jarmo

[HBK]

Hey, Friend... Younggunner... BBFT Regular ??

Please...

RONALD IS MASTER OF MUSIC !!

 

HBK *

[greekmule]

What I mean is that Bucket has the ability to get people to talk and focus on him and the band rather than juts Axl,Slash and the old lineup.

man to tell u the truth i dont think that the new version of gnr can play the lead singer+lead guitarist combo card the old gnr had.

old gnr went from rags to richez together. combine that with the fact that both axl and slash had undeniable charisma so the spotlight was naturally

divided between axl and slash.

in regards to the new version of gnr i don't think that this can be duplicated because axl is already a megastar.

he is like the sun to most gnr fans, he is so bright he just outshines everything close to him.

in 2006 i went to see gnr with a couple of friends. to tell u the truth my eyes were constantly on axl for the first 5 songs (and for the 95% of the

remaining show). i literally didn't notice anything else on the stage. the pope could have been playing the guitar and i wouldn't have noticed

the new version does not need a second banana- axl rose has more than enough charisma to handle the spotlight by himself.

the rest of the band just have to focus on playing good music, they don't need to become superstars in order for gnr to do well

[younggunner]

Truth is: Joe Satriani recommended Ron to Axl, so he probably knew that Ron would be the guitarist that Axl needed. Should i hear Joe Satriani or younggunner?

Again, Im not discrediting Bfoot at all. Hes a great guitarist. I just dont think he has that extra something. When I watch Bucket and Bumble they are both great but one really sticks out. One is super explosive.

Your opinion. I'm sure you can find a bunch of people who don't agree with you

different strokes for different folks. I cant expect everyone to agree with me.

You must've forgotten that his image caused a lot of people to dislike him and automatically disregard him as a joke.


A similar thing happened with Robin in 2002. People said he looked out of place.

People might have disliked him but guess what they were talking about him. He was a source of discussion when discussing GNR. Debates arise, people talking, people then listen, and eventually more times than not they will eventually become fans because the guy is great.

And obiviously Axl didnt care about what people would say about his image. If he did would he have jumped thru hoops to please him when he was with the band? And try to get him back when he left? Didnt Axl even go on some trip to Disneyland once to talk to him? Didnt Axl get him some hard to find doll to get him to come down to tryout? Not to mention Chicken Coops. Axl has done a lot to please and get Bucket back. That should all tell you something

Bumblefoot was recommended by Satriani.

Regular?

 

See above. Bumble is very good. But imo hes not the guy to replace Slash.

If Satriani holds so much weight how come Axl was trying to get Bucket back ever since he quit? As you know he didnt recommend Bumble right before Hammerstein.

Again, I will bet anything, if Axl had his choice he would want Bucket and Robin playing lead. Not only because of their abilities but because of the stuff Im talking bout...identity, star power, discussion, etc

I guess if Richard wore a mask he wouldn't be considered "regular" either.

I like Richard a lot. Although I think his current role is perfect if he had to share lead I know he can do it. But again....hes not Buckethead...hes not explosive

Theres a lot of people who can play the material well. But there is only a select few who can command it, who can own it, who can bring something extra to the table.

Old GN'R was special? No shit. That's what made many of us fans. But they changed over the years. Just like the current band. Yet, some of us are still here.

As I've said before, nobody seems to pay attention to it though, it's a band that's a sum of its parts. And having Axl in the band gives them a huge advantage.

They changed but they didnt change. I dont care about the pre AFD changes. I also cant compare the changes of Izzy and Adler with Bucket and RObin

Although Izzy is GREAT(my 2nd fav old member) him leaving is not as big of a deal if lets say Slash left.

If you want to compare old and new gnr lineup changes you have to ask yourself what if Slash left an not Izzy. Its the same thing today. By no means is Bucket and Robin on the same level as Slash in terms of popularity, etc but they are all lead guitarists for GNR.

If you take Slash out instead of IZzy who knows what would have happened to GNR during the early 90;s. I know one thing, it would be totally different.

Same with  this situation. We are seeing 2 important lead guitarists leave. Its a lot different than seeing Adler or Izzy or Fortus or even a Brain leave.


You keep saying a band is the sum of its all parts etc. I agree. I also agree that Axl is the ultimate star and reason we are all here. But he is trying to rebuild the gnr name. He doesnt want this to be a solo project. You cant rebuild the gnr name without star power. Axl not included. A rock band needs that lead guitarist to go along with the frontman. Maybe its just me but I personally dont get excited when I hear Bfoot play a solo or something. It doesnt do it for me. With Bucket and Robin I did. I enjoyed their styles and playing.

And Ill say it again, I would bet everything that if you asked Axl at any point of this long journey he would agree with the basis of what Im saying. You need the star power. You need a player who can help rebuild GNR.

[D]

Ok

I said i was finished but I gotta say one more thing


I have never ever ever had a problem with Robin Finck or anyone in GNR


WHO i have a problem with, are posters like Jim Bob who try to say this guy or that guy are BETTER than Slash when at this point its laughable.


Any guitar player will tell u, that writing something amazing is one of the hardest things in the world to do.  Playing somebody elses shit is easy

I have friends who can play any metallica, GNR, Hendrix, Megadeth,Stevie Ray Vaughn......... Anything but yet they cant write a riff on their own to save their lives.
So someone playing someone elses stuff can NEVER be better than the guy who WROTE IT.

People forget how timeless and amazing the music SLash and Izzy wrote is. they think ANYONE can just up and write that way and it isnt so. Just check the lists when they come out of all time riffs/solos.

Doing that is INSANELY hard.


So my problem began when people like Jim Bob started shitting on the old band to try and prop up people like Finck who is a good guitar player for GNR but to say he is better than SLash at this point is just ridiculous and that isnt "OPINION"

Its like someone saying Sidney Crosby is better than Wayne Gretzky. U have evidence to prove that isnt so.



That first solo Jim Bob posted is absolute horrible.     Its nonsense. the whole solo is fuckin jibberish and his tone is the worst tone of any guitar player Ive ever heard. It hurts my ears.


I dont want Finck to leave because I dont want anymore delays, but GNR are rolling on or rolling over top of u. No one single member outside of Axl can stop this.

[The Dog]

Its like someone saying Sidney Crosby is better than Wayne Gretzky. U have evidence to prove that isnt so.

Bullshit, Crosby IS better.  Lemieux was definitely better.  Stats don't tell the whole story.

Malkin could be better then them all.

[Jim Bob]

WHO i have a problem with, are posters like Jim Bob who try to say this guy or that guy are BETTER than Slash when at this point its laughable.

if you want to worship slash, go do so in the VR section or something.   Its not about him anymore and not everyone is going to share your opinion.  deal with it.

So someone playing someone elses stuff can NEVER be better than the guy who WROTE IT.

but its impossible to enjoy someone's live rendition of a song over the guy who wrote it?  bullshit, and you can't say shit because you didn't even go see the band in 2002, 2006, or 2007.   I did.

People forget how timeless and amazing the music SLash and Izzy wrote is. they think ANYONE can just up and write that way and it isnt so. Just check the lists when they come out of all time riffs/solos.

Doing that is INSANELY hard.

nobody is saying that.

So my problem began when people like Jim Bob started shitting on the old band to try and prop up people like Finck who is a good guitar player for GNR but to say he is better than SLash at this point is just ridiculous and that isnt "OPINION"

Its like someone saying Sidney Crosby is better than Wayne Gretzky. U have evidence to prove that isnt so.

it is an opinion, like it or not.   musical taste is subjective and individual to everyone.   Open your mind.

That first solo Jim Bob posted is absolute horrible.     Its nonsense. the whole solo is fuckin jibberish and his tone is the worst tone of any guitar player Ive ever heard. It hurts my ears.

your opinion, but I think its clouded by your slash colored glasses.   I disagree, and those moments were among the highlights of that particular show for me.

I dont want Finck to leave because I dont want anymore delays, but GNR are rolling on or rolling over top of u. No one single member outside of Axl can stop this.

agreed, but even if Finck doesnt' come back.. his parts are staying on the album according to Del james.  I believe his position in the band is still there for him unless he decides he doesn't want it.   if he doesn't, you won't see me here everyday talking about how much his replacement sucks and how robin is 100 times better.   I will accept it, some of you guys need to do the same thing in regards to other previous guitarists.

[Continental Drift]

m8 i dig that you like buckethead a lot but this is just plain BS.

in regards to charisma only a handful of musicians in the world have been at the same level with axl rose and buckethead is cartainly not one of them.

sometimes i think that new fans of gnr do not get how legendary axl fuckin rose is

true that. noone can hold a candle to Axl. I agree. What I mean is that Bucket has the ability to get people to talk and focus on him and the band rather than juts Axl,Slash and the old lineup.

I think the fact of the matter is that the whole Axl-Lead Guitarist type scenario has been consciously avoided since Slash's departure actually. I think that fact (wanting to avoid the traditional GN'R Axl-Lead Guitarist friction), along with Robin's NIN pedigree, were perhaps the main reasons Finck got the gig in the first place. Axl could agree with him artistically b/c he had "modern" influences and related to Axl's vision for the band, he had shown a good stage presence in his NIN days, but, at the end of the day, was merely an adequate live guitarist and certainly not a "show stealing" virtuoso. I think that all added up to the "perfect" resume in Axl's mind for Slash's replacement. That's what he needed in order to get working on the album. Not some virtuoso Slash replacement to fight with him in studio. I honestly don't think he has ever approached it from a... "we need a 2nd rock god lead guitarist in this band in order to make a comeback" point of view IMHO. That being said... even if Finck was not intended to be a super-star #2 guy... you're right that he would at a minimum seem still to be an important element of the "final mix" b/c he was so carefully hand selected for his role. It is for THAT reason that I hope he's around when GN'R is ready to roll again.

I do agree that Buckethead was a unique addition to the band who definitely seemed to carve out his "own little part of the stage" and added a little "something extra" to the live shows. I think it's an exaggeration though to suggest that he had "replaced" the Axl/Slash "stage presence" and "relationship" of the original band though. He was still splitting the stage with 2 other guitarists... and the majority (but perhaps not the most impressive) leads still went to Finck. Further, as Jarmo stated, his awkward appearance earned him his fair share of "detractors" among the GN'R fanbase... something Slash never dealt with in his tenure... that's for sure.

Anyway, I actually think that if any of the players were to be "emphasized" it was to be (and is) Dizzy Reed, b/c of his connection back to the UYI era (obviously helps Axl to be able to show at least some connection back to the glory days), and Tommy Stinson, b/c of his credibility amongst music critics, rock publications, fans and insiders. I think all of the above, plus the fact that the guitar duties have been divided amongst 3 players, shows a somewhat deliberate attempt to "downplay" any sort of Axl-Lead Guitarist relationship this time around IMHO...

[Loaded NightraiN]

Bullshit, Crosby IS better. 

Keep smokin dude... 

Crosby has done NOTHING yet compared to Gretzky

[leatherebel]

I have friends who can play any metallica, GNR, Hendrix, Megadeth,Stevie Ray Vaughn......... Anything but yet they cant write a riff on their own to save their lives.

If they hook up with someone like Axl sure they can write riffs to save their lives. And likely better than alot of the Slash riffs. It's as simple as that. How many more artistical failures does your hero have to go through for people like you to get that?

[mrbucketfoot]

We should change the title of this thread to:
"Whiny so-called 'fans' bitch about current members and compare them to former members, providing useless speculation all the while wasting Jarmo's bandwidth Super Awesome FUNTIME".