Robin leaving? Just touring?

[GypsySoul]

1. Wait for NIN tour to finish.
2. Tour and release album without Robin

I seriously doubt GNR is waiting on NIN and/or Robin for anything.  Wouldn't youze think that once Robin's situation came to light that immediately plans were set in motion to bring someone else into the fold to get them up-to-speed a.s.a.p?  And I kinda doubt that whoever that someone else winds up being, they'll be told that they're here only till Robin decides when he wants to come back.

[younggunner]

GNR are in my opinion are becoming too much of a revolving door. For them to carry on the legacy of GNR, there has to be some consistency and not new members everytime a tour starts.

before its over GNR will have encompassed over 20 members in one band.

And that my friend has been the most frustrating, dissapointing, confusing etc, etc, aspect of this whole process. I can put up with and or understand all the delays, the cancelled tours, etc etc.

But the most dissapointing part of the whole CD era has been the breakup of this band, for me atleast. We were asked to believe in that lineup. We were asked to give it a chance. Let the past be the past and give the new lineup a chance to stand on its own. But in my opinion I didnt need to be asked that. The new lineup earned it at Rock In Rio. That concert  happened right after I got into GNR. After catching up with the boots, albums, articles, etc of the old band I then stumbled upon the new one. I bought the Rio vhs and witnessed an epic concert. From that point on I was sold. I saw a BAND not a project. I saw something special. I saw something that didnt need any chances. They earned it. Axls voice and appearance may not have been up to snuff during that time but I saw a guy who had a vision, who had balls, who had a tremendous band back with him again.

The years have come and gone. Its amazing that the album hasnt been released but in a way I dont even care anymore about when it finally comes out. Unfortunately that is now an after thought. What has ruined that process is the inability for this band to have anything run smoothly. Everytime something good has happened or will happen with this band, something bad has happened right before, during or after that.

I too often read how the band can and will move on when a particular band member moves on or when something negative happens. And techinically they are right. The band will "roll" on. The band will overcome the negative. But thats not the point. There comes a point where one has to scratch there head and say what the fuck has happened? Where did it all go? Why cant anything be smooth?

I had argued for years, before I became a "whining, impatient, hater", with people who would not think of the new lineup as a band. They insisted that it was just a revolving door. They insisted that Axl had no plan, they insisted that this was Axls solo project. And unfortunately I could not argue that same argument today with those people, many who are long gone. Who were worn out from the supporters, the nutswingers. You might say that there are still plenty of haters and nut swingers around. But there is one big difference. The nutswingers of today are hanging on with blind faith. Back in the day there was fact. Facts to back up ur nut swinging. A BAND to back up the nutswinging.

Take for instance the RObin situation. Hes gone folks. If you really want to know the facts, HE IS GONE. The writing is on the wall. Read it, dont look away. And if you are looking away, just listen to me...he is GONE. And thats fucked up because think of it from Axls perspective. THink of how after all of these years, hes finally about to release the long awaited album, hes finally able to overcome all of the hurdles and obstacles(some in which he created), and what happens? One of his most loyal members, his lead guitarist, his building block for the new era, has quit on him. Bolted. Now what? Now he has to get another lead guitarist as he will and can. But thats not the point. THe point is that its another negative. Its another draining process to go thru. Axl, the band, and more importanly us the fans arent a machine. Rolling with the punches is one thing, but after time enough is enough. It drains on you. It becomes less and less special and meanigful. And thats the whole point. THis has becomes less and less meanigful as time has gone on.

And that is what has been the biggest dissapointment over this time for me. Axl had the perfect band and for one reason or another wasnt able to maintain it. Of course its not all his fault and this post is not to blame anyone. Its to say that we almost saw another great American band dominate the world in a time when there really arent any bands anymore. In a time that hasnt seen a band with talent swagger and balls. But unfortunately we wont get to see it. For whatever reason. And in my opinion that blows. Big time.

Axl was almost able to do what everyone and their mom said he wouldnt be able to do. And now they are unfortuantely right. Even when the album comes out they will be right. No matter how great it is. They were right. I used to say let the album be the judge of everything. I said that with confidence because not only did I know the album would be great but the band that made it, that will be playing it was even better. That can no longer be said anymore. And thats the most fucked up thing about it.

  

[jarmo]

Blind faith?

The SONGS I heard played live in 2006 and 2007 are more than enough to make me believe in GN'R and Axl.

I bet I'm not the only one who feels that way. So there goes your "blind faith" theory out the door.



If it wasn't for Axl, you wouldn't have been this "infatuated" with Buckethead or Robin. He put them in GN'R and made it work. Made it sound like a unit, a real band.

Buckethead left, they did it again. Built a team with different players and it worked again. Do you see a pattern here?

GN'R is a band no matter how you look at it. The people might have changed, but the vision and sound is the same.




Real fans support the band through thick and thin. They don't constantly sway from one side to the other. Because there's no need.

They've been around for long enough and know that there might be a few bumps in the road, but the results are always worth it.


By the way, since you've only been a fan since 2001, maybe you have to be reminded about how GN'R's line up changed even during the two year Use Your Illusion world tour. It's not something that's only happened to the band since you became a fan.

THis has becomes less and less meanigful as time has gone on.

No, I think it's actually the opposite.

When you got things going against you, that's when you really have a chance of showing everybody how wrong they are....




/jarmo

[Farid Bak]

as long as i remember GNR has trived when everything has been against them.. Thats when you see the best of them..
But i can understand what you are saying, and all i got for you is.. time will be the catalyst for this history

[Continental Drift]

GNR are in my opinion are becoming too much of a revolving door. For them to carry on the legacy of GNR, there has to be some consistency and not new members everytime a tour starts.

before its over GNR will have encompassed over 20 members in one band.

And that my friend has been the most frustrating, dissapointing, confusing etc, etc, aspect of this whole process. I can put up with and or understand all the delays, the cancelled tours, etc etc.

But the most dissapointing part of the whole CD era has been the breakup of this band, for me atleast. We were asked to believe in that lineup. We were asked to give it a chance. Let the past be the past and give the new lineup a chance to stand on its own. But in my opinion I didnt need to be asked that. The new lineup earned it at Rock In Rio. That concert  happened right after I got into GNR. After catching up with the boots, albums, articles, etc of the old band I then stumbled upon the new one. I bought the Rio vhs and witnessed an epic concert. From that point on I was sold. I saw a BAND not a project. I saw something special. I saw something that didnt need any chances. They earned it. Axls voice and appearance may not have been up to snuff during that time but I saw a guy who had a vision, who had balls, who had a tremendous band back with him again.

The years have come and gone. Its amazing that the album hasnt been released but in a way I dont even care anymore about when it finally comes out. Unfortunately that is now an after thought. What has ruined that process is the inability for this band to have anything run smoothly. Everytime something good has happened or will happen with this band, something bad has happened right before, during or after that.

I too often read how the band can and will move on when a particular band member moves on or when something negative happens. And techinically they are right. The band will "roll" on. The band will overcome the negative. But thats not the point. There comes a point where one has to scratch there head and say what the fuck has happened? Where did it all go? Why cant anything be smooth?

I had argued for years, before I became a "whining, impatient, hater", with people who would not think of the new lineup as a band. They insisted that it was just a revolving door. They insisted that Axl had no plan, they insisted that this was Axls solo project. And unfortunately I could not argue that same argument today with those people, many who are long gone. Who were worn out from the supporters, the nutswingers. You might say that there are still plenty of haters and nut swingers around. But there is one big difference. The nutswingers of today are hanging on with blind faith. Back in the day there was fact. Facts to back up ur nut swinging. A BAND to back up the nutswinging.

Take for instance the RObin situation. Hes gone folks. If you really want to know the facts, HE IS GONE. The writing is on the wall. Read it, dont look away. And if you are looking away, just listen to me...he is GONE. And thats fucked up because think of it from Axls perspective. THink of how after all of these years, hes finally about to release the long awaited album, hes finally able to overcome all of the hurdles and obstacles(some in which he created), and what happens? One of his most loyal members, his lead guitarist, his building block for the new era, has quit on him. Bolted. Now what? Now he has to get another lead guitarist as he will and can. But thats not the point. THe point is that its another negative. Its another draining process to go thru. Axl, the band, and more importanly us the fans arent a machine. Rolling with the punches is one thing, but after time enough is enough. It drains on you. It becomes less and less special and meanigful. And thats the whole point. THis has becomes less and less meanigful as time has gone on.

And that is what has been the biggest dissapointment over this time for me. Axl had the perfect band and for one reason or another wasnt able to maintain it. Of course its not all his fault and this post is not to blame anyone. Its to say that we almost saw another great American band dominate the world in a time when there really arent any bands anymore. In a time that hasnt seen a band with talent swagger and balls. But unfortunately we wont get to see it. For whatever reason. And in my opinion that blows. Big time.

Axl was almost able to do what everyone and their mom said he wouldnt be able to do. And now they are unfortuantely right. Even when the album comes out they will be right. No matter how great it is. They were right. I used to say let the album be the judge of everything. I said that with confidence because not only did I know the album would be great but the band that made it, that will be playing it was even better. That can no longer be said anymore. And thats the most fucked up thing about it.

 

Not a bad post. Some things in there I obviously disagree with, but I appreciate the sentiment.

My advice to you is to focus on the album... b/c all indications are... therein you will find the band that you once loved (Axl, Dizzy, Robin, Tommy, Chris, Brain, Buckethead and Richard... along with some Bumblefoot and Frank and maybe Paul Tobias). THAT hasn't gone away at least.... and if the last 15 years has taught me anything... being able to put a great album on your cd player 17 (UYI) or 21 (AFD) years after the fact and enjoying it like a painting on the wall is FAR more important than all the other "momentary" stuff like line-ups, tours, MTV videos and awards, etc.

Axl has had a world of difficulty in getting this album done up to standards AND keeping a consistent touring line-up together. There's no denying that... BUT my guess is that he more than makes up for it with a mind-blowingly unbelievable album that we can all enjoy for decades to come. Perhaps it will be a bit of a downer for some that the touring line-up will not fully reflect the musicians on the album... BUT, at the end of the day, there are far worse tragedies in the world... Just have to take what you get sometimes...

[mrbucketfoot]

So if Axl replaces Robin, u will have:

1 member of the original GNR Axl
1 member of the 2nd lineup Dizzy
2 members of the RIR3 lineup Chris and tommy
3 new members since 2006

Richard Fortus has been a member of Guns N' Roses since 2002. Brain is still in the band. Frank has always been close to the Gn'R Family.

re?volv?ing door
1. A door in constant motion, usually to accommodate for the physically handicapped.
2. A very loose woman who goes through a large number of sexual partners in a short amount of time. Also called a 'slapper'.
3. See: Nine Inch Nails:
Jeordie White
Aaron North
Alex Carapetis
Jerome Dillon
Charlie Clouser
Danny Lohner
Chris Vrenna
James Woolley
Nick Rushe
Lee Mars
Richard Patrick
David Haymes
Jeff Ward
Ron Musarra
Robin Finck
Alessandro Cortini
Josh Freese
Justin Meldal-Johnsen

I understand what you mean, but fact is Axl is trying to make Gn'R into something great. "How do you make a bunch of guys who are something else, into something that already was?", he said at MTV VMA 2002. So obviously it's going to take a lot of people to discover what is great and what is both respectable of the Gn'R gritty sound while a reinvention of that sound. And even if Robin doesn't tour, his contributions will be heard by all on the Chinese Democracy albums. So will Buckethead's. Maybe something Brian May helped Axl with will be on the album? So what. Next you're going to complain about Teddy Zigzag or Alice Cooper or Shannon Hoon or Traci and Roberta helping them out on the Illusion Records?

P.S. Is it really that hard to add "yo" to that "u"? I mean, two more letters. You can do it.

[ppbebe]

You forget the new addition for 2 months Rich Fownes.

[younggunner]

The SONGS I heard played live in 2006 and 2007 are more than enough to make me believe in GN'R and Axl.

I bet I'm not the only one who feels that way. So there goes your "blind faith" theory out the door.

Im not disputing the songs we heard. I just want to hear them being played by the people who created them.

I never said I dont believe in Axl. If I didnt would I be here?

Built a team with different players and it worked again. Do you see a pattern here?

Just like I said in the post. He will build another team, and Im sure it will be great. But thats is not what Im talking about.

GN'R is a band no matter how you look at it. The people might have changed, but the vision and sound is the same.

And that my friend is where we split in different directions. Yes, the vision and sound will remain. I am not disputing that. But for me the people overide the vision and sound. They make it. Again, this is where we differ. Of course I will always support the team (GNR), but in my opinion 2002-2004 cannot be duplicated. Its not that easy. Something special doesnt come around everytime something is assembled or reassembled. Do you understand what I mean?

Real fans support the band through thick and thin. They don't constantly sway from one side to the other. Because there's no need.

I have and will continue to support the band through thick and thin. If I wasnt I wouldnt be here. I have never ditched GNR. I would never ditch Axl. Without trying to sound corny, he is an inspiration to me. WHy would I jump ship? I would never do that. As a fan, I am stating that in my own mind and feelings that this process has become less and less special. If others feel differently thats fine too. Everyone is a different person.

By the way, since you've only been a fan since 2001, maybe you have to be reminded about how GN'R's line up changed even during the two year Use Your Illusion world tour. It's not something that's only happened to the band since you became a fan.

IMo you cannot compare the old lineup changes with the new ones. If Slash or Axl left then yes. Robin and Bucket are lead guitarists. They were a good part of the foundation of the band.

The only departure that comes close is Izzys. But again, fans still had Axl and Slash.

I never said I was quitting on GNR. I still love the band. My only point is you cant just roll on and change parts without some sort of change or sacrifice. Yea it will work but for some, or maybe just me, it wont have the same meaning. Thats all nothing more nothing less

[ppbebe]

even with no lineup change, 2002-2004 couldn't be duplicated.neither could 1986, 7,8, 1991 2 3, or 2006-7.

go watch videos.

[jarmo]

Im not disputing the songs we heard. I just want to hear them being played by the people who created them.

Well as I said, some of us have had since 1990 to get used to the idea....

And that my friend is where we split in different directions. Yes, the vision and sound will remain. I am not disputing that. But for me the people overide the vision and sound. They make it. Again, this is where we differ. Of course I will always support the team (GNR), but in my opinion 2002-2004 cannot be duplicated. Its not that easy. Something special doesnt come around everytime something is assembled or reassembled. Do you understand what I mean?

If you change 2002-2004 to 1987-88 and suddenly your posts seem a bit different.

Nobody's talking about duplicating anything.

The team is a sum of its parts.

You might not have some guy passing out toys in the band, but the band is still as great as it was then.

I have and will continue to support the band through thick and thin. If I wasnt I wouldnt be here. I have never ditched GNR. I would never ditch Axl. Without trying to sound corny, he is an inspiration to me. WHy would I jump ship? I would never do that. As a fan, I am stating that in my own mind and feelings that this process has become less and less special. If others feel differently thats fine too. Everyone is a different person.

In some ways you have "ditched" the band since you constantly keep reminding us all of how great it was in 2002.

It's kinda like you're stuck in the past.

IMo you cannot compare the old lineup changes with the new ones. If Slash or Axl left then yes. Robin and Bucket are lead guitarists. They were a good part of the foundation of the band.

The only departure that comes close is Izzys. But again, fans still had Axl and Slash.

No, that's just a cop out as you often say.

A line up change is a line up change! Period. Stick to that rule if it's so important for you.

You're the one talking about wanting to hear the same people who recorded the songs performing them live.

It makes no difference if the person in question plays guitar, drums or something else.

It's just that "your guy" chose to leave and that's why you come up with these posts about how it's not special.

In one sentence, your whole "agenda" can be described with: I miss Buckethead and I want him back.

No need to start telling us about how you want the same band back together because they recorded the songs.....





/jarmo

[GypsySoul]

Im not disputing the songs we heard. I just want to hear them being played by the people who created them.

The reality of the matter is that we have no idea who "created" what.  Do you think one person wrote ALL the music and lyrics to any song?  I'd bet someone besides Robin contributed to the creation of Better even though Axl said during one of the shows that it was a "Robin" song.

So who's to say that someone other than a "face" of GNR created/contributed to what we've heard?

[Death Cube K]

how did you find out nin was touring till 2010?
when only dates up to this October are listed.

Yes, my bad. Trent Reznor only tours for 3 months and then goes home.

[Continental Drift]

younggunner...

IMHO to continue on as a Guns N' Roses fan circa 2008... you're going to have to learn to make your peace with line-up changes.... as we all have.

For whatever the reasons... that's just how this project has worked out.

Complaining about it does nothing... and even if it were brought to Axl's attention I'm sure his response would be... "Well, go ahead and start your own band and don't change a single member. No one's stopping you. I'm sure it will be special."

GN'R is now Axl's gig... and he's put the music before band continuity since Slash walked out the door 12 years ago.... and that's not going to change now...

BTW: We're all entitled to have "favorite eras" of GN'R... so no one should be taking that away from you... hell... I'm probably one of the few people that really think Gilby Clarke could have brought a lot to the band and that GN'R really blew a chance to have a great mid/late 90's rock album composed of the best tracks from Pawnshop Guitars and The Hangover... I'll argue that with anybody in the Dead Horse section... but I don't let it completely color my view of today's GN'R though. Keep your opinion... of course... but if you're going to keep supporting today's band... you've got to kind of move on IMHO...

[ppbebe]

back to the topic,

I like NIN and like to see Robin play with NIN
but I like better better than any NIN song so far. If Robin wrote the song....I just can't see a place where he can't write a line being his home.

[Continental Drift]

back to the topic,

I like NIN and like to see Robin play with NIN
but I like better better than any NIN song so far. If Robin wrote the song....I just can't see a place where he can't write a line being his home.

Agreed. The only way Robin leaves for good IMHO is if he's entirely fed up with Axl for some reason... but impossible to know that... and even if true.... impossible to know whether he'll still feel that way several months or a year from now if/when Axl reaches out to him to come back...

Not the most ideal of situations... but best for everyone to just forget about this "mini-drama" and sit back and pray that Axl and management hammer out an agreement for the release of Chinese Democracy... that is by far the most pressing issue facing the band at the moment IMHO...

[younggunner]

It makes no difference if the person in question plays guitar, drums or something else.

It's just that "your guy" chose to leave and that's why you come up with these posts about how it's not special.

In one sentence, your whole "agenda" can be described with: I miss Buckethead and I want him back.

It makes a huge difference. Generally guitarists and lead singers are the focal point of the band. You cannot compare Steven Adler leaving the band with Slash leaving the band.

Do people say this isnt GNR because Steven Adler isnt there?

Izzy is a tricky one because to the hardcore fan he is much more appreciated than the average fan. I personally like Izzy more than Slash.

But again, do people say this isnt real GNR because Izzy Stradlin isnt there?

Its about Axl and Slash.

Im not trying to compare Bucket and Robin to Slash. If all things were equal, RObin and Buckets departure have more of an impact than Steven Adler or maybe even Izzy. Which is why there is a difference in your revolving door argument.

You keep saying Im stuck on Bucket, Im stuck on 2002. Maybe. But I guess Axl is/was too. How come Axl did everything in his power to PLEASE Buckethead(before and during his stay)? How come Axl was trying to get Bucket back before the 06 tour? How come I get the feeling that if Bucket wanted to come back he would be allowed to? How come Axl is not throwing Robin under the bus and leaving the door open for his return despite Robin screwing him?

your whole "agenda"

I dont have an agenda

younggunner...

IMHO to continue on as a Guns N' Roses fan circa 2008... you're going to have to learn to make your peace with line-up changes.... as we all have.

For whatever the reasons... that's just how this project has worked out.

Complaining about it does nothing... and even if it were brought to Axl's attention I'm sure his response would be... "Well, go ahead and start your own band and don't change a single member. No one's stopping you. I'm sure it will be special."

GN'R is now Axl's gig... and he's put the music before band continuity since Slash walked out the door 12 years ago.... and that's not going to change now...

BTW: We're all entitled to have "favorite eras" of GN'R... so no one should be taking that away from you... hell... I'm probably one of the few people that really think Gilby Clarke could have brought a lot to the band and that GN'R really blew a chance to have a great mid/late 90's rock album composed of the best tracks from Pawnshop Guitars and The Hangover... I'll argue that with anybody in the Dead Horse section... but I don't let it completely color my view of today's GN'R though. Keep your opinion... of course... but if you're going to keep supporting today's band... you've got to kind of move on IMHO...

Solid post. And you are correct with pretty much everything you said

[izzbo]

To throw my hat into the ring (why? I don?t know?), I?d say that Mr. Finch has not formally left the band?yet. Given the lucrative nature of the Guns N? Roses enterprise, I am certain there are insurmountable contracts to sign that involve every aspect: marketing, song writing credit, t-shirt sales, sponsorship, income from tours, etc? Speculatively, legally one cannot simply walk away from such a zeitgeist. Now, knowing some musicians, the desire to pick up and walk away is attractive: But without a formal pronouncement, to quote an oft? quote from Yogi Berra: ?It ain?t over till its over.? Has Brain left for that matter???

a hoi hoi,
Mojoeye

It can be done, leaving that is. Buckethead for example. He had contracts, ect ... but he just didn't want to do it anymore and Axl cut him free. I'm not saying this happened w/Robin, but if someone doesn't want to do something anymore, they don't want to do it. Buckethead didn't make an annoucement, from what I know he just stopped showing up and avoided contact w/Axl to the point where Brain had to get involved to let the band know what was going on. Legally Robin could be held to something, but that would be pretty crappy on Axl's part forcing a musician to play with him based on a contract.

 -= iZzBo =-

Axl cut Buckethead free - I got the impression Buckethead quit without the input from anyone. Buckethead wanted to get back to his own thing, which is a good thing. I'd still like to hear Buckethead on CD. I'd still like to hear Robin on CD. To go through the process of re recording would be madness.

Yes, Axl cut Buckethead free from contracts, ect ... b/c he didn't want to be in GNR anymore (i.e. he quit)

-= izZbo =-

[leatherebel]

I think some people go too far with the Robin credits regarding Better. Axl did generously say "This is a Robin song". However, what does that mean? It is super obvious that the lyrics are 100% written by Axl. It is also much more likely that the bridge was written by someone like BH or Pitman, rather than Robin. So, even IF all the remaining music is Robin's, this still doesn't technically make it HIS song.


 

[jarmo]

It makes a huge difference. Generally guitarists and lead singers are the focal point of the band. You cannot compare Steven Adler leaving the band with Slash leaving the band.

No.

Example:

A + B + C + D + E records an album

C quits and is replaced by F.

A + B + D + E + F play the songs on tour.


So, you don't have the same guys who recorded the song playing it live. The thing you are constantly posting about.


On one hand you're here talking about how you want the same band that recorded the album to play the songs and on the other hand you're saying some guys are more important than others.

If you remove one player from the first line, technically it's not the same line anymore.



Personally this doesn't bother me. It's happened before. It's a band that's been evolving for quite a while.

It's just amusing how you're using the same logic those old band fans are using "it's not GN'R". When you ask them if they thought it was GN'R in 1990 they'll say yes. It's only because their guy was still in the band, but as soon as he left, it stopped being "the real GN'R". 

You keep saying Im stuck on Bucket, Im stuck on 2002. Maybe. But I guess Axl is/was too. How come Axl did everything in his power to PLEASE Buckethead(before and during his stay)? How come Axl was trying to get Bucket back before the 06 tour?

Because he's cool like that?





/jarmo

[Ulises]

Ok but...Robin is still on Guns N' Roses or not