Robin leaving? Just touring?

[gunns1]

i think everyone is jumping to conclusions, because the most certain thing to happen is NIN finishing their World Tour God Knows when, and Gn'r still giving out those random it's almost finished or it's in the label's hands crap.

i don't think axl wants to release this cd, and if he does, i think whatever is stopping him from doing so in a normal time frame or in a normal fashion will continue to hold him back, because there's no sign in real changes in that department, just hopeful thinking from fans who continue to believe the cd is right around the corner...

in 2001 they printed out t-shirts saying Chinese Democracy Starts Now, the fact that people here seem so convinced that they're now in a final stage of the process 7 years later is pretty ridiculous to me.

anyway, still i don't know what is goin on, but, after all we've seen over the last decade, it's more than fair for Robin to do what the hell he wants to do in his free time.

This cd has taken more time to come out than most bands have as a carrear, so i don't think he's holding out on anything, and if plans do change, he'll obviously consider what is more exciting for him to be doing.

all i can say is that Robin has been way to patient over the past 11 years.

axls main vision at the moment , is to get chinese democracy out

and I think he is trying hes best to get it to us as quick as possible...

Im not suggesting anything, but you have to understand in order to do this, their will be some setbacks on the home front...
whether this is one or not we shall soon see,

but in war, loss is inament, as victory is the only outcome possible...

chinese democracy starts 2008

[MeanBone]

lol, this is just too funny. it's like talking to brainwashed souldiers. i'm gonna go find something else to amuse myself with, this is plain sad. it's like everyone's waiting for Jesus in here.

[jarmo]

lol, this is just too funny. it's like talking to brainwashed souldiers. i'm gonna go find something else to amuse myself with, this is plain sad. it's like everyone's waiting for Jesus in here.

You do that. 



/jarmo

[ppbebe]

surely he must love both GNR fans and NIN fans but if you can't see the difference between this letter and a courteous  one, you're emotionally retarded.

Here's a clue for you, sweetie, cause obviously you don't have one.



Robin hasn't said shit yet to GNR fans about him touring with NIN.  Instead he let Trent spit in our faces by letting him announce it.

Where's his conscience now?

Robin said shit about him touring with NIN, courteously. what you want ?

ppbebe: If the 'courteously' comment is in reference to what I said earlier about being disappointed IF Robin didn't think to appraise Axl of his plans before they were announced to the public by Reznor, then his previous letters that you posted don't make any difference.

Agreed, it was nice of him to write these letters, but reading them actually makes me more suspicious about this current situation because of his continuing silence.  All he has posted on his site is information that had already been made public by his new employer.

Although we still don't know what, if any, effect this will have on Guns plans, I agree with GypsySoul that it would appear that Robin's conscience does not encompass his GNR fans at this time - and that makes me sad.

But do we have to accuse someone based on our ifs and buts? we don't know the details yet do we? as to Whether or not robin sounded out anyone in GNR about his playing with nin beforehand / Whether or not he assented to the way Trent announced it. generally band's side makes an announcement on its tour stuff first then its (guest) performers the second but I still suspect that Trent anticipated it.

If you read my post previous to the ones with those letters, you'll see in what context I brought out these letters.

the 'courteously' was referred to the tone of robins new 'I'm thrilled to' announcement.
He hasn't reported GNR tour dates or other things in this way, a hint of ceremony sorta.
yep, as a rule his site is not for GNR related stuff. But those 'dear friends' letters were addressed to GNR fans in particular. The tone in them is quite different than the recent notification. Emotional and rather private.

I don't think he will write a letter especially for us until he sees the need. like when a tour gets postponed/cancelled and fans are crying or maybe when he wants to say goodbye. likewise I don't see the necessity for GNR com to say anything about this (Why should GNR advertise a NIN tour?) until it indeed interferes with GNR's schedule, ie a tour.

Until then I see no issue. Then again  even if a tour is announced wo robin in the lineup, I perhaps won't see one tho. the fans of a band respect and like the whole band and not just one member, don't we?

[cyllan]

all i can say is that Robin has been way to patient over the past 11 years.

Robin's been given opportunities that many musicians would give their eye teeth for and I'm sure that he's appreciated them and taken full advantage of the experience he's gained along the way.  To my knowledge, no-one in GNR has been denied the chance to make use of 'down time' in whatever way they wish - so no excuse for getting bored.  And although I don't know the details, I'm sure that the financial rewards of the past decade haven't been too shabby either.  So, all in all, I wouldn't say that he's too hard done by.

Oh and if we're talking about being in it for the long haul, I think that Dizzy and Axl can claim the record for this one. 

[cyllan]

But do we have to accuse someone based on our ifs and buts? we don't know the details yet do we?

No, I agree that we don't know the details of the situation and that's why I've been careful to give Robin the benefit of the doubt so far.

the 'courteously' was referred to the tone of robins new 'I'm thrilled to' announcement.
He hasn't reported GNR tour dates or other things in this way, a hint of ceremony sorta.
yep, as a rule his site is not for GNR related stuff. But those 'dear friends' letters were addressed to GNR fans in particular. The tone in them is quite different than the recent notification. Emotional and rather private.

Ah, I think I see what you're saying now with regard to Robin's differing styles in communicating with fans.  However, that wasn't the context that I was using the word in and I guess that's where we got our wires crossed.  When I mentioned that I thought it would have been courteous to give Axl advance notice of his touring plans, I meant that it would be good manners (hence my remark of probably being thought of as old-fashioned) not to expect Axl to be a mind-reader and that Robin advising him of his intentions would have been a considerate gesture.

I don't think he will write a letter especially for us until he sees the need. like when a tour gets postponed/cancelled and fans are crying or maybe when he wants to say goodbye.

My personal opinion is that the reason Robin hasn't clarified the situation is because his future with GNR is uncertain; either he hasn't made a decision as to where his priorities lie at this time (i.e. he's dithering), or he hasn't been required to make a decision either way yet (i.e. Axl doesn't need an answer now and Reznor has his own agenda).  I do think that if things were cut and dried, he'd make it known.  But that's just my thoughts...

likewise I don't see the necessity for GNR com to say anything about this (Why should GNR advertise a NIN tour?) until it indeed interferes with GNR's schedule, ie a tour.

I agree that it's not a necessity for GNR to comment at present if it doesn't interefere with current plans.  In fact, I don't see that it's down to Axl to comment on Robin's actions at all, unless he chooses to.  As far as I'm concerned, Axl is the spokesman for GNR, not for the actions of its individual members (apart from himself, obviously!).

[younggunner]

I guess that makes them Axl fans and not GNR fans?

I agree. That was the theme of my original post on this subject that got deleted.

The more lineup changes that there are, the more the fans have a "the band will move on/hes replaceable"mentality, the more they become fans of Axl and this album and not the band  GNR.

Yea, everyone will support the band members, and yes GNR will move on,  but in my opinion it becomes less special each and every time the lineup changes. I connected with the 2002 lineup. I was content with the 2006 lineup. Next lineup, who knows? That doesnt mean they will suck or they arent good. Its just hard to connect with something that is thrown out to you. Many of us supported and grew with that original new lineup. SLowly but surely 2 of their main contributors are gone.

I think for me personally, at the current moment, Im a die hard fan of Axl and the 2002 lineup. Along with the album Chinese Deomcracy(atleast half of it so far).

I will support a newer lineup but I probably wont have the same feeling and spirit as I once did.

[jarmo]

SLowly but surely 2 of their main contributors are gone.

How can you say something like that?

There's two guys who have been in the band before those two so called "main contributors" were even considered to be joining the band.



Maybe not all of us became fans in 2002 and that's why we have had time to get used to the idea that the band's line up isn't the same as it was in 1985?

Ever considered that?

Many of us were actually fans when Steven was fired in 1990 and it didn't stop us from being fans. Same thing when Izzy left and so on.



Of course Steven's fans were upset and the same goes for those who had Izzy as their favorite GN'R member. So it makes sense that you "connected" with Buckethead just like people had done the same with Steven, Izzy or whoever else.

I think for me personally, at the current moment, Im a die hard fan of Axl and the 2002 lineup.

We know.

You even posted a thread about how special it was.



/jarmo

[SpiritDave]

Jarmo can't you lock this thread until further notice, unlock once GN'R make a comment.

Why?  What's the point?  Unless it's full of illegal links or hardcore porn, any discussion about a member of the band - especially this one - keeps people talking on the forum.  I for one think it's a topic worth keeping open.  So much speculation, and so many people discussing Robin.  Isn't it a good thing?

[younggunner]

How can you say something like that?

There's two guys who have been in the band before those two so called "main contributors" were even considered to be joining the band.



Maybe not all of us became fans in 2002 and that's why we have had time to get used to the idea that the band's line up isn't the same as it was in 1985?

Ever considered that?

Many of us were actually fans when Steven was fired in 1990 and it didn't stop us from being fans. Same thing when Izzy left and so on.



Of course Steven's fans were upset and the same goes for those who had Izzy as their favorite GN'R member. So it makes sense that you "connected" with Buckethead just like people had done the same with Steven, Izzy or whoever else.

Fair points but I cant help that I wasnt old enough to appreciate and become a fan of the old band when it first happened.


Izzy's departure was bad but people could get over that because they still had Slash.

People who were fans of the new lineup have seen 2 lead guiatrists leave. Yes, there material will remain on the album but in regards to a touring aspect they are gone. So you should be able to see how some people will lose some connection with a different lineup.

We know.

You even posted a thread about how special it was.

Did I? I dont remember.

because you didn't see a show?

I dont understand what your trying to say.

And why do you and some others jump to a conclusion before you hear any confirmation.

just a hunch 

[Mysteron]

Jarmo can't you lock this thread until further notice, unlock once GN'R make a comment.

Why?  What's the point?  Unless it's full of illegal links or hardcore porn, any discussion about a member of the band - especially this one - keeps people talking on the forum.  I for one think it's a topic worth keeping open.  So much speculation, and so many people discussing Robin.  Isn't it a good thing?

After 70+ pages of speculation (incorporating 28000+ views) I think 99% of all possible angles have been covered thoroughly Which post is closest to reality is any bodies guess 


Here's an idea for a new topic: GN'R speculation
Has Axl written or considered writing a song about people on forums.
The types that could be labeled as GN'R Speculative Investigators, aka the GSI 

All of the band members (GN'R) are currently doing their own random projects, but because this is Robin and NIN everything changes because of their history

Let us be clear though. Robin has not intimated at any point that he has left GN'R, so there should be no reason to worry. Because Robin has 'rejoined' NIN for the moment, the press coverage of this will obviously promote NIN and their future endeavours, so Robin, NIN and whoever else will not act in any manner to stop this happening because, of course,  it benefits them, and as we all know, any promo is normally good promo.

Obviously if Guns were to become active then that would leave Robin with decisions to make, but I personally think would he would choose GN'R given the time and effort he has put into it them. I think, given the fact that NIN world tours tend to be short affairs anyway, Robin sees this whole thing as an educated gamble.

[leatherebel]

Short affairs? Educated gamble?

That sounds alot like just wishful thinking and nothing more at this point. The last NIN tour I checked lasted 7-8 months an it was one of their shortest ever.

And yeah, it's not like there's no planning and forseeing in the GN'R world when they are being "inactive", right?

I think it's pretty safe to assume how Robin's decisions (by now) have caused some headaches and possibly a change in plans.

[GnR-NOW]

Or Robin knew that nothign would be going on with GNR until the end of the year, therefore doing shows with NIN won't interfere

[jarmo]

Fair points but I cant help that I wasnt old enough to appreciate and become a fan of the old band when it first happened.

That wasn't the point.

The point is, can you understand that some of us have been through this before and that's why we don't get as upset/disappointed as you might get?

So when you're complaining about the attitudes some of us have about this thing, you fail to see that it's just the way things have always been for some of us.

It happens. We move on like we've always done.

Izzy's departure was bad but people could get over that because they still had Slash.

I'm not sure if everybody would agree.

You see, people had gotten used to the AFD line up. That changed with Steven being fired.


You say you connected with the 2002 line up. Well, don't you think some of the "old fans" "connected" with the AFD line up?

So you're saying none of them could've been feeling like you because after Steven and Izzy were out, because Slash was still in the band?

Well, you still got many band members in the band that were there in 2002. That doesn't stop you from being disappointed.

Does this just boil down to one thing, you miss Buckethead? Do you really care who else is in the band besides Axl and him?

People who were fans of the new lineup have seen 2 lead guiatrists leave. Yes, there material will remain on the album but in regards to a touring aspect they are gone. So you should be able to see how some people will lose some connection with a different lineup.

As I said above, it's the same as it's been since the 80s.

It's not the end of the world.




/jarmo

[Sober_times]

For me, the line-up changes in Guns N Roses throughout the years have been an uneasy thing to get over. When Steven was fired it didnt bother me all that much. I was dissappointed but got over it faily quickly. When Izzy left I was very dissappointed. It was a sad day for me as a GN'R fan. When Slash and than Duff left I thought Guns N roses was dead.

It took several years to get over the loss of Izzy, Slash and Duff. Since than and still now I have accepted this as kind of a Guns N Roses 2.0. Or some call it "new Gnr." I don't know why but thats just the way I feel. I guess I was content with slash, duff, and Axl being Guns N Roses after Izzy and Steven left but it was harder to accept Axl plus contributers as GN'R was.

For me it was the muscians that got me back into this incarnation of Guns N Roses. I was a fan of Buckethead, Robin, Brain, and Tommy before they joined up with Axl. So in hearing about the movings of GNR over the years it was these muscians plus Axl that got me wanting to hear the new music. I was very interested in the sound these guys could bring to together. I don't quite know why but I think in a way I didnt accept them as Guns N roses, I accepted them as a "new" GN'R.

When bucket left I was dissappointed, Brain left during touring and we dont really know if hes back or not, and now Robin may have left as well. For thats 3/5 of the reason I came back to listen to GN'R. I guess I never really saw Axl alone as GN'R until now. After seeing Bucket, brain and now robin leaving its obvious to me that GN'R is only Axl Rose now plus what seems like a revolving door of musicians. I am ok with that. But it is dissapointing to see members leave....

I'm trying to express my feelings on the band and members leaving and line-up changes over the years but even after typing this theres still something missing that I cant seem to express at this time  ...

[TomFriend]

Obviously if Guns were to become active then that would leave Robin with decisions to make, but I personally think would he would choose GN'R given the time and effort he has put into it them.

So Robin hasn't signed a contract with NIN for the duration of this tour? Obviously not if he can drift in and out of bands at will.

[GypsySoul]

All of the band members (GN'R) are currently doing their own random projects, but because this is Robin and NIN everything changes because of their history

Trent's "history" of trying to fuck with GNR fans is EXACTLY what pisses me off about how Robin is handling this situation.

IMO, Robin needs to acknowledge that to his GNR fans.  (A simple SINCERE "I'm sorry.  I used very poor judgement." and then pleading temporary insanity would be acceptable to me.)

Whether or not Robin is still in GNR is between him and the other band members.

[Ali]

All of the band members (GN'R) are currently doing their own random projects, but because this is Robin and NIN everything changes because of their history

Trent's "history" of trying to fuck with GNR fans is EXACTLY what pisses me off about how Robin is handling this situation.

IMO, Robin needs to acknowledge that to his GNR fans.  (A simple SINCERE "I'm sorry.  I used very poor judgement." and then pleading temporary insanity would be acceptable to me.)

Whether or not Robin is still in GNR is between him and the other band members.

What would Robin be saying "I'm sorry" for?  How has he used poor judgement?

Ali

[GypsySoul]

Oy fuckin Vey!!!  Must be my accent.  Maybe I need to get Bumblefoot to translate for me. 

What would Robin be saying "I'm sorry" for?  How has he used poor judgement?

Ali

For letting Trent take another shot at GNR fans.

Trent's "history" of trying to fuck with GNR fans is EXACTLY what pisses me off about how Robin is handling this situation.

IMO, Robin needs to acknowledge that to his GNR fans.

[Ali]

Oy fuckin Vey!!!  Must be my accent.  Maybe I need to get Bumblefoot to translate for me. 

What would Robin be saying "I'm sorry" for?  How has he used poor judgement?

Ali

For letting Trent take another shot at GNR fans.

Trent's "history" of trying to fuck with GNR fans is EXACTLY what pisses me off about how Robin is handling this situation.

IMO, Robin needs to acknowledge that to his GNR fans.

I suspected what you were getting at, but wanted to be sure.  Also, I was hoping that by repeating it, you might see the absurdity of what you're saying, no offense.

You are saying Robin should apologize for something Trent Reznor did.  Not something Robin did, but something Trent Reznor did.  How in the world can you hold Robin Finck accountable for something Trent Reznor did?

Ali