Dr. Pepper's Chinese Democracy press release

[CaughtMeInaComa]

CD This year?

How many Tuesdays are left in '08 again?

[Ali]

Again, intent, malicious or otherwise, is irrelevant.  You can't use someone's name or likeness in any promotion without their consent and be protected from legal action.  You are opening a door to getting sued anytime you do that regardless of circumstances or intentions.

Yeah, but would a lawsuit really have gone anywhere?

Axl would have essentially had to prove that Dr. Pepper made money off his name and the Gn'R name since this promotion was unveiled a few days ago, which would have been next to impossible.

Perhaps Dr. Pepper came to the conclusion that the probability of Axl suing over this was pretty miniscule, so they went boldly went ahead with it.

He could sue them if he wants to and there is nothing Dr. Pepper can do about that unless they've reached some sort of arrangement.

Doesn't Axl's response to this promotion lead you to believe some sort of arrangement has probably been met?

He's essentially given his approval, so I don't see how he could now all of the sudden turn around and cry foul.

The issue is not whether or not Dr. Pepper actually made money off Axl's and GN'R's name.  The issue is that by using their names in a promotional campaign without their consent they are ATTEMPTING to make a profit.  They just don't have the right to do that without consent, to even attempt to make a profit.

It is possible that Dr. Pepper thought the possibility of a lawsuit was minuscule.  But, this is not some fly by night company.  This is a well established company with a long track record of successful promotions and advertising campaigns. 

I don't think that there is necessarily some arrangement in place, but I do think Axl decided there was some benefit to this for GN'R and that's why he publicly gave his seal of approval.

Ali

[AxlsMainMan]

No, I'm sorry, but there has to be a tie-in a payoff for any promotional campaign to have a purpose and a benefit.  You don't spend money on TV spots, viral websites and posters for movies that aren't going to come out when you expect them to come out.  That would be a complete and utter waste of money. 

I'm yet to hear of Dr. Pepper planning on spending large sums of money on this promotion.

If they do, that's entirely their choice.

New customers will be obtained once people hear about the Gn'R connection, so I fail to see how either party truly stands to lose anything, regardless of if the album is released this year.

Furthermore, I think you are grossly overestimating the memory and interest level of the general public, not us on the forums, for this album.  If this year comes and goes, this promotion will have been pointless from the band's side.

Once again, I disagree.

It's another chapter in the story surrounding Chinese Democracy, and only serves to continue to increase public awareness and interest in the band and album.

Also, for Dr. Pepper to have to give out free sodas, the record has to come out this year.  Then there is a benefit, a huge one. 

They still benefit regardless of whether the album is released or not.

As we sit here discussing this, they're probably already benefiting, and the album hasn't been released yet.

So no, I don't think the album has to come out for this to be a benefit to Gn'R or Dr. Pepper.

[AxlsMainMan]

Again, intent, malicious or otherwise, is irrelevant.  You can't use someone's name or likeness in any promotion without their consent and be protected from legal action.  You are opening a door to getting sued anytime you do that regardless of circumstances or intentions.

Yeah, but would a lawsuit really have gone anywhere?

Axl would have essentially had to prove that Dr. Pepper made money off his name and the Gn'R name since this promotion was unveiled a few days ago, which would have been next to impossible.

Perhaps Dr. Pepper came to the conclusion that the probability of Axl suing over this was pretty miniscule, so they went boldly went ahead with it.

He could sue them if he wants to and there is nothing Dr. Pepper can do about that unless they've reached some sort of arrangement.

Doesn't Axl's response to this promotion lead you to believe some sort of arrangement has probably been met?

He's essentially given his approval, so I don't see how he could now all of the sudden turn around and cry foul.

The issue is not whether or not Dr. Pepper actually made money off Axl's and GN'R's name.  The issue is that by using their names in a promotional campaign without their consent they are ATTEMPTING to make a profit.  They just don't have the right to do that without consent, to even attempt to make a profit.

It is possible that Dr. Pepper thought the possibility of a lawsuit was minuscule.  But, this is not some fly by night company.  This is a well established company with a long track record of successful promotions and advertising campaigns. 

I don't think that there is necessarily some arrangement in place, but I do think Axl decided there was some benefit to this for GN'R and that's why he publicly gave his seal of approval.

Ali

Yeah, there are only so many possible explanations.

If Axl had no prior knowledge of this promotion, then Dr. Pepper must have thrown caution to the wind, and decided they'd drop this promotion if they were to recieve a cease and decist letter.

Stranger things have happened.

Countries have been invaded on the presumption that they had Weapons of Mass Destruction

[Smoking Guns]

Ali, I agree with pretty much everything you say.

I DO think this an inside job.. All parties know what is going on.  We are not fucking idiots.  If you choose to beleive that people do these promotions without telling the people they are promoting they are going to promote them you are delusional.

[Ali]

No, I'm sorry, but there has to be a tie-in a payoff for any promotional campaign to have a purpose and a benefit.  You don't spend money on TV spots, viral websites and posters for movies that aren't going to come out when you expect them to come out.  That would be a complete and utter waste of money. 

I'm yet to hear of Dr. Pepper planning on spending large sums of money on this promotion.

If they do, that's entirely their choice.

New customers will be obtained once people hear about the Gn'R connection, so I fail to see how either party truly stands to lose anything, regardless of if the album is released this year.

Furthermore, I think you are grossly overestimating the memory and interest level of the general public, not us on the forums, for this album.  If this year comes and goes, this promotion will have been pointless from the band's side.

Once again, I disagree.

It's another chapter in the story surrounding Chinese Democracy, and only serves to continue to increase public awareness and interest in the band and album.

Also, for Dr. Pepper to have to give out free sodas, the record has to come out this year.  Then there is a benefit, a huge one. 

They still benefit regardless of whether the album is released or not.

As we sit here discussing this, they're probably already benefiting, and the album hasn't been released yet.

So no, I don't think the album has to come out for this to be a benefit to Gn'R or Dr. Pepper.

I admit, the movie analogy was a bad one, but you can't argue with the fact that even if Dr. Pepper does have to spend the money giving away the free soda, there will be a huge publicity benefit to them.  Just huge.  They will most certainly profit from this promotion in that case.

And again, I'm sorry, but I think you are truly overestimating the public and their interest in this record.  We here on the forums do not represent the general music buying public and their interest in this record in any way, shape or form.  That is an unfortunate truth.  A few days of renewed interest or curiosity may occur, but it will not be sustained unless there is a payoff, a point to this promotion.

Ali

[Ali]

Ali, I agree with pretty much everything you say.

I DO think this an inside job.. All parties know what is going on.  We are not fucking idiots.  If you choose to beleive that people do these promotions without telling the people they are promoting they are going to promote them you are delusional.

Thanks dude.  I don't know if it was an inside job necessarily, if I believe that, but there is some mutual benefit happening here or else there wouldn't have been an endorsement from Axl publicly. 

Ali

[jarmo]

Ali, I agree with pretty much everything you say.

I DO think this an inside job.. All parties know what is going on.  We are not fucking idiots.  If you choose to beleive that people do these promotions without telling the people they are promoting they are going to promote them you are delusional.

I think you are a fucking idiot if you keep saying GN'R was part of it.


If you do a promotion saying "we'll give you a free soda if the Rangers win the Stanley Cup" doesn't mean you're just promoting the New York Rangers.



/jarmo

[Atillla]

All this quasi lawyer talk the last 3 pages was a bore, cheers for the participants

[Smoking Guns]

Ali, I agree with pretty much everything you say.

I DO think this an inside job.. All parties know what is going on.  We are not fucking idiots.  If you choose to beleive that people do these promotions without telling the people they are promoting they are going to promote them you are delusional.

I think you are a fucking idiot if you keep saying GN'R was part of it.


If you do a promotion saying "we'll give you a free soda if the Rangers win the Stanley Cup" doesn't mean you're just promoting the New York Rangers.



/jarmo

No, but they would have to get permission from the NHL do to that. 

I bet DP came up with the whole idea, I get that, but somebody had to run it by the GNR camp or record label.  If not, they are lucky bastards and idiots at the same time.

[Smoking Guns]

Ali, I agree with pretty much everything you say.

I DO think this an inside job.. All parties know what is going on.  We are not fucking idiots.  If you choose to beleive that people do these promotions without telling the people they are promoting they are going to promote them you are delusional.

I think you are a fucking idiot if you keep saying GN'R was part of it.


If you do a promotion saying "we'll give you a free soda if the Rangers win the Stanley Cup" doesn't mean you're just promoting the New York Rangers.



/jarmo

Jarmo, do you think that Axl found out about this via the internet, or a Rep from DP called and said, hey, we have this idea, what do you think about it?  If they didn't ask him, not only would that be rude, but ballsy if he didn't actually like the promo.  If they didn't ask, they are lucky and stupid.  I don't think the executives are stupid or lucky.  They are where they are by hard work. 

[jarmo]

Ali, I agree with pretty much everything you say.

I DO think this an inside job.. All parties know what is going on.  We are not fucking idiots.  If you choose to beleive that people do these promotions without telling the people they are promoting they are going to promote them you are delusional.

I think you are a fucking idiot if you keep saying GN'R was part of it.


If you do a promotion saying "we'll give you a free soda if the Rangers win the Stanley Cup" doesn't mean you're just promoting the New York Rangers.



/jarmo

Jarmo, do you think that Axl found out about this via the internet, or a Rep from DP called and said, hey, we have this idea, what do you think about it?  If they didn't ask him, not only would that be rude, but ballsy if he didn't actually like the promo.  If they didn't ask, they are lucky and stupid.  I don't think the executives are stupid or lucky.  They are where they are by hard work. 

As he says, it came out of the blue for the band.

They didn't know about it until it popped up online and the rest of us found out.




/jarmo

[Smoking Guns]

Jarmo, that is freaking crazy!!!!!!!    I am glad he liked it.  This story matches the following....

Received this reply from Chris Kooluris today when I made an inquiry as to whether or not this was true :

It?s 100% true and we?re really excited Axl Rose is happy with our support?We?re all really big Guns fans over here and can?t wait to hear Chinese Democracy?we?re hoping this is the year!  Best,


CK

[fuckin crazy]

The issue is not whether or not Dr. Pepper actually made money off Axl's and GN'R's name.  The issue is that by using their names in a promotional campaign without their consent they are ATTEMPTING to make a profit. 

I know next to nothing about trademark law, but I'm thinking that in order to bring a successful action, one has to prove damages.

[Smoking Guns]

The issue is not whether or not Dr. Pepper actually made money off Axl's and GN'R's name.  The issue is that by using their names in a promotional campaign without their consent they are ATTEMPTING to make a profit. 

I know next to nothing about trademark law, but I'm thinking that in order to bring a successful action, one has to prove damages.

Or Exploitation for their financial gain.  Gibson is suing Guitar Hero and they had a fucking agreement. 

[fuckin crazy]

The issue is not whether or not Dr. Pepper actually made money off Axl's and GN'R's name.  The issue is that by using their names in a promotional campaign without their consent they are ATTEMPTING to make a profit. 

I know next to nothing about trademark law, but I'm thinking that in order to bring a successful action, one has to prove damages.

Or Exploitation for their financial gain.  Gibson is suing Guitar Hero and they had a fucking agreement. 

They are suing for patent violation, ie., financial loss.

[leatherebel]

Ali, I agree with pretty much everything you say.

I DO think this an inside job.. All parties know what is going on.  We are not fucking idiots.  If you choose to beleive that people do these promotions without telling the people they are promoting they are going to promote them you are delusional.

Thanks dude.  I don't know if it was an inside job necessarily, if I believe that, but there is some mutual benefit happening here or else there wouldn't have been an endorsement from Axl publicly. 

Ali

There is absolutely no benefit for Dr Pepper (yet). And I don't think they are sueable until they start officially using GN'R's name in their advertizing campaigns. That press release alone is not an advertisement. Maybe they hope it will help the GN'R promotional campaign and GN'R will then be willing to participate in something mutual.

[Verse Chorus Verse]

CD This year?

How many Tuesdays are left in '08 again?

40.

[Smoking Guns]

CD This year?

How many Tuesdays are left in '08 again?

40.

I predict between August and October so that this promotion and CD promotion can take place!

[freedom78]

CD This year?

How many Tuesdays are left in '08 again?

40.

I predict between August and October so that this promotion and CD promotion can take place!

Let's hope!