Dr. Pepper's Chinese Democracy press release

[HungerForChaos]

assuming that a can costs 20c in the US.....with 303,616,998 people living in the states....
that's a meager $60million dollars out of the bank....almost 5 times as much as what Geffen paid for CD...

i'm glad Axl called their bluff...he may be confident now, but Mr. PR Chris is going to start shitting pretty soon if Axl decides to deliver....

Big deal, you know how much money they make? And they'll make even more after this, due to publicity. 60 mil won't dent their wallet.

[Jim]

Not to mention the fact that if they're clever about it they'd make you pay p+p for the darn thing... Imagine the number of claims then!

[Ali]

Here's the thing I don't get:

If Axl and the band had no knowledge of this and were not o.k. with it, i.e. saw no benefit to them in this, wouldn't they be able to sue Dr. Pepper for using their name and/or likeness in a promotion (and that's what this is in reality) without consent?

Something to consider.

Ali

Ask yourself this, was the gnr brand damaged by this?....the answer is no, meaning they've got nothing to base a lawsuit on.

And as far as using logos and other trademarks, all of what connected it to gnr has already been taken down and replaced by something else as far as I know.

It doesn't matter whether or not the GN'R brand was damaged.  The issue is you cannot use someone's name or likeness in a promotional/marketing/advertising campaign without their consent.  You just can't profit off someone's name or likeness without having their o.k. and/or cutting them in on it.  You just can't do it.

Ali

Yeah, but you can always decide what to do. If the good outweighs the bad, why take the other route?





/jarmo

True.  GN'R can decide not to sue if they see some benefit to them in this promotion.  But, still they CAN sue.  My point was that GN'R has the option for legal action regardless of whether or not the GN'R brand name is damaged.  Whether or not they exercise that option is another story and up to them.

But then here's another question:  What benefit would there be to this for GN'R unless they were going to release the record?

Ali

[russtcb]

Anyone been here yet?:


http://chinesedemocracywhen.blogspot.com/

[cotis]

Sent an e-mail to Dr. Pepper asking about it when I first heard wind a couple days ago and just got this back...

March 27, 2008
Dear Mr. Cotis,

Dr Pepper thinks the world needs more Guns n' Roses.  While we are not associated with the band, we completely understand the band's quest for perfection.  After all, it took a little patience to perfect Dr Pepper?s special mix of 23 ingredients, which our fans have come to know and love.  We will give away free Dr Pepper if the album ships in 2008.

We hope you will continue to purchase and enjoy our products.


Sincerely,

Consumer Relations

[Grouse]

True.  GN'R can decide not to sue if they see some benefit to them in this promotion.  But, still they CAN sue.  My point was that GN'R has the option for legal action regardless of whether or not the GN'R brand name is damaged.  Whether or not they exercise that option is another story and up to them.

But then here's another question:  What benefit would there be to this for GN'R unless they were going to release the record?

Ali

Ofcourse they can sue but to win you need to prove damages and there are none...

You just can't profit off someone's name or likeness without having their o.k. and/or cutting them in on it.  You just can't do it.

They would first have to prove that Cadbury/Schwepps actually profited by using the gnr name which would be an incredibly hard thing to do...

[Loco_motive]

Anyone been here yet?:


http://chinesedemocracywhen.blogspot.com/

Actually, I have.  I also noticed that if you look closely at the picture of the Great Wall of China, you'll see a few song titles etc.

TWAT, Better, Madagascar, and a line from The Blues.

Surely, Chinese Democracy is here.  I doubt it though. 

[AxlsMainMan]

What benefit would there be to this for GN'R unless they were going to release the record?

It's free, guarenteed promotion for both the band and album, regardless of whether it's released or not.

[Ali]

True.  GN'R can decide not to sue if they see some benefit to them in this promotion.  But, still they CAN sue.  My point was that GN'R has the option for legal action regardless of whether or not the GN'R brand name is damaged.  Whether or not they exercise that option is another story and up to them.

But then here's another question:  What benefit would there be to this for GN'R unless they were going to release the record?

Ali

Ofcourse they can sue but to win you need to prove damages and there are none...

You just can't profit off someone's name or likeness without having their o.k. and/or cutting them in on it.  You just can't do it.

They would first have to prove that Cadbury/Schwepps actually profited by using the gnr name which would be an incredibly hard thing to do...

Yes, but keep in mind that lawsuits bring bad publicity and are at the very least a hassle for the company involved.  They have to spend money on lawyers and other legal fees.  Smashing Pumpkins sued their own label because their name was used in a Pepsi promotion.  Metallica filed a lawsuit against someone for calling a particular nail polish "Metallica".  The point is that a company like this would not open themselves to this sort of nuisance unless they were stupid and careless.  They would cover their asses.

You cannot use someone's name or likeness in any promotion without their consent.  Profit or not.  You cannot do it.

The issue of profiting off or damaging the GN'R name aren't relevant.  You can't use the name, period.

Ali

[Ali]

What benefit would there be to this for GN'R unless they were going to release the record?

It's free, guarenteed promotion for both the band and album, regardless of whether it's released or not.

But what is that promotion worth unless the record is released? 

It's like teasing someone about something, arousing their curiosity and interest and then there's no payoff.  It might be interesting for a few days, but it ultimately has no tangible benefit or impact.

Ali

[russtcb]

True.  GN'R can decide not to sue if they see some benefit to them in this promotion.  But, still they CAN sue.  My point was that GN'R has the option for legal action regardless of whether or not the GN'R brand name is damaged.  Whether or not they exercise that option is another story and up to them.

But then here's another question:  What benefit would there be to this for GN'R unless they were going to release the record?

Ali

Ofcourse they can sue but to win you need to prove damages and there are none...

You just can't profit off someone's name or likeness without having their o.k. and/or cutting them in on it.  You just can't do it.

They would first have to prove that Cadbury/Schwepps actually profited by using the gnr name which would be an incredibly hard thing to do...

You cannot use someone's name or likeness in any promotion without their consent.  Profit or not.  You cannot do it....You can't use the name, period.

Ali

Well.... they are. And it would seem GNR are ok with it. And I can tell you for a fact that Universal had no prior knowledge of this.

[MeanBone]

i think they're mocking Gn'r. Never has a soft drink or any any other company made fun of a band so bad.

what they're saying is: We're so sure Axl won't deliever, we're actually betting to give away our product for free to the whole country"

sad thing is, they might actually be right, but we'll see in 2009

[AxlsMainMan]

You cannot use someone's name or likeness in any promotion without their consent.  Profit or not.  You cannot do it.

If Axl had objected, I'm sure he would have sent a cease and decist letter to Dr. Pepper and that would have been that.

There doesn't appear to be any malicious intent in this promotion, so Dr. Pepper probably anticipated Axl would approve of the idea.

[lakersaregreat]

Anyone been here yet?:


http://chinesedemocracywhen.blogspot.com/

Actually, I have.  I also noticed that if you look closely at the picture of the Great Wall of China, you'll see a few song titles etc.

TWAT, Better, Madagascar, and a line from The Blues.

Surely, Chinese Democracy is here.  I doubt it though. 

great catch! i also see CITR on the wall...pretty cool...

[Ali]

True.  GN'R can decide not to sue if they see some benefit to them in this promotion.  But, still they CAN sue.  My point was that GN'R has the option for legal action regardless of whether or not the GN'R brand name is damaged.  Whether or not they exercise that option is another story and up to them.

But then here's another question:  What benefit would there be to this for GN'R unless they were going to release the record?

Ali

Ofcourse they can sue but to win you need to prove damages and there are none...

You just can't profit off someone's name or likeness without having their o.k. and/or cutting them in on it.  You just can't do it.

They would first have to prove that Cadbury/Schwepps actually profited by using the gnr name which would be an incredibly hard thing to do...

You cannot use someone's name or likeness in any promotion without their consent.  Profit or not.  You cannot do it....You can't use the name, period.

Ali

Well.... they are. And it would seem GNR are ok with it. And I can tell you for a fact that Universal had no prior knowledge of this.

Yes, they are and GN'R seems o.k. with it given Axl's statement.  For GN'R to be o.k. with it, there must have been a decision that there is some meaningful benefit to them.  And the label not having prior knowledge of something does not mean they, or the band, are going to look a gift horse in the mouth and not use this to their benefit now.

Ali

[Ali]

You cannot use someone's name or likeness in any promotion without their consent.  Profit or not.  You cannot do it.

If Axl had objected, I'm sure he would have sent a cease and decist letter to Dr. Pepper and that would have been that.

There doesn't appear to be any malicious intent in this promotion, so Dr. Pepper probably anticipated Axl would approve of the idea.

Again, intent, malicious or otherwise, is irrelevant.  You can't use someone's name or likeness in any promotion without their consent and be protected from legal action.  You are opening a door to getting sued anytime you do that regardless of circumstances or intentions.

The lack of a cease and desist letter only shows that Axl sees some benefit to this.  He could sue them if he wants to and there is nothing Dr. Pepper can do about that unless they've reached some sort of arrangement.

Ali

[AxlsMainMan]

But what is that promotion worth unless the record is released? 

Increased public awareness, curiousity, and interest.

It might be interesting for a few days, but it ultimately has no tangible benefit or impact.

I disagree.

I think that regardless of whether or not the album is released this year, this kind of promotion only further increases the record buying public's interest in Chinese Democracy, and the general mystique surrounding the album.

Even if the album doesn't come out until next year, people's interest would be naturally re-invigorated, and they'd say:

"Hey! That's the album that made Dr. Pepper give out free sodas for all of America!

[Ali]

But what is that promotion worth unless the record is released? 

Increased public awareness, curiousity, and interest.

It might be interesting for a few days, but it ultimately has no tangible benefit or impact.

I disagree.

I think that regardless of whether or not the album is released this year, this kind of promotion only further increases the record buying public's interest in Chinese Democracy, and the general mystique surrounding the album.

Even if the album doesn't come out until next year, people's interest would be naturally be re-invigorated, and they'd say:

"Hey! That's the album that made Dr. Pepper give out free sodas for all of America!

No, I'm sorry, but there has to be a tie-in a payoff for any promotional campaign to have a purpose and a benefit.  You don't spend money on TV spots, viral websites and posters for movies that aren't going to come out when you expect them to come out.  That would be a complete and utter waste of money. 

Furthermore, I think you are grossly overestimating the memory and interest level of the general public, not us on the forums, for this album.  If this year comes and goes, this promotion will have been pointless from the band's side.

Also, for Dr. Pepper to have to give out free sodas, the record has to come out this year.  Then there is a benefit, a huge one.  It will be all over the news if that happens, just like this announcement was.

If the album does not come out this year, whatever reinvigorated interest the public has will subside and this promotion will be forgotten quickly because there will be no ultimate benefit or impact.

Ali

[Axl4Prez2004]

Release the album Axl..."Dr.'s orders." 

(it had to be said.)   

[AxlsMainMan]

Again, intent, malicious or otherwise, is irrelevant.  You can't use someone's name or likeness in any promotion without their consent and be protected from legal action.  You are opening a door to getting sued anytime you do that regardless of circumstances or intentions.

Yeah, but would a lawsuit really have gone anywhere?

Axl would have essentially had to prove that Dr. Pepper made money off his name and the Gn'R name since this promotion was unveiled a few days ago, which would have been next to impossible.

Perhaps Dr. Pepper came to the conclusion that the probability of Axl suing over this was pretty miniscule, so they went boldly went ahead with it.

He could sue them if he wants to and there is nothing Dr. Pepper can do about that unless they've reached some sort of arrangement.

Doesn't Axl's response to this promotion lead you to believe some sort of arrangement has probably been met?

He's essentially given his approval, so I don't see how he could now all of the sudden turn around and cry foul.