Guitarist attitudes

[Rockin' Rose]

I've been listening to lot of Buckethead lately, confirmed what I had previously thought, Buckethead probably is the most talented guitar player ever and one amazing composer. Bumblefoot is great also, but I haven't heard nearly as much of his music as I have of Bucket's, but he is damn good, they both are different and have their own strengths, Bucket can create sounds unrivaled by none and use them to play some of the most original stuff you have ever heard. Bumble's fretless guitar playing is cool and definatly one of his strengths

I like all the guitar players in guns, they all have different styles and that's important, I really don't care who is the best guitar player in Guns, as long as their playing brings something cool to the songs, I hope that lot of Bucket's playing will end up on the records, Better with Bucket playing the choruses using the "red button" style sounds just so mean and is something that the others wouldn't have come up with.

Bumble's contributions to the song Better are nice but they aren't really needed, that guitar slide, or what ever it's called is probably the best addition. But his contributions to I.R.S. are much more better and give that song something that it needed. Richard's solo on The Blues might not be better than Robin's but those solos serve a different purpose, Richard's solo is great for that part of the song.


btw. Dave Mustane has Finnish roots, Mustonen!

[ppbebe]

IMO BH is unparalleled. His guitar is unique in sounding so delightfully free from any fetter as if there was no such thing as the law of gravitation. Mind you hes even free from the band, haha.

But it doesn't mean other guitarists aren't great. All Chinese democratic guns have their strong suits respectively. why should we carp at the other to praise one?

But in writing skills, I've yet to see what he's capable of.

I liked the pieces posted at 4tus site. Chic and tight lovely little tunes. Thought those were by Richard?

[jarmo]

I don't know anything about music theory. I just like to listen to music....

So, excuse the ignorance, but is it possible for a guitarist to play "off key" or "the wrong notes" simply because he chooses to play the part in his own style instead of making a carbon copy of the original?




/jarmo

[Smoking Guns]

Theory and pure knowledge, nobody comes close to Ron in the GNR family.  Ron is an absolute beast.  Bucket was too.  However, Bucket is more identifiable because he acutally has a "sound" it seems and he does his thing, and does it very well.  Ron is so super intelligent with the instrument, and he is good at so many things, its hard to actually know Ron's sound.  When you hear Zakk, you know its Zakk, when you hear Slash, you know its Slash.  When you hear Angus, you know its Angus.  Plus those guys are all "Rock" players.  Ron is not really a "rock" guitarist, but he can be.  He is a master of all genres.  Its like you got the Jimmy Page's, Slash's, Angus of the worlds in the blues rock/hard rock genre.  Then you have Buckethead that can do all their stuff with emotion and balls, but more of a virtuoso type.  Then you have Ron, which can own all of the above but really is the least identifiable.  Do I make sense??

[Smoking Guns]

I don't know anything about music theory. I just like to listen to music....

So, excuse the ignorance, but is it possible for a guitarist to play "off key" or "the wrong notes" simply because he chooses to play the part in his own style instead of making a carbon copy of the original?




/jarmo

Jarmo, if you are in key, the improv sounds cool cause it works with the chord or key you are in. Out of key can work if its a passing note really fast (even Slash does this), but bending an out of key note, or milking a bad note is more of a fuck up cause it just doesn't go.  Now, Eddie Van Halen was famous for thinking outside the box with "bad" notes and getting computer game types sounds with it.  So it can work in the right context.  Basically if you pause on the bad note, I think it sounds awful and they usually have to try to bend up to get back in key. 

[jarmo]

I know what you're saying, but considering the complaints don't just mention one particular show.

It's like it happens every show, so you'd think it's not because they can't play the songs.....

They're not beginners....




/jarmo

[rockNroses]

Intresting to read the opinions of everyone, when it comes to the guitarists discussions always get intresting...and nowhere?

I saw Ron live with GN'R and I have heard several other recordings of him, so I think I can afford an opinion - and I stand by it, he just doesn't make my ears bleed for a second.

In the end he fits just as good or bad as Buckethead, both are amazing players but while BH took the dominance thing over the top, sometimes stealing the show even from Axl, Ron he is the opposite, such a great nice guy from next door who has absolutely no stage presence or star factor. That sure has nothing to do with his playing, but you can sure hear that attitude in his playing. Nothing fancy anywhere with that guy.

And fretless or not, he could play on a surfboard if it won't make my goose bump I don't care. Just compare live and studio IRS, Better, CD and TWAT, there are versions of both players out there, and you will see he CAN PLAY what Buckethead played, but Buckethead just SOUNDS so much better.

Can anyone recommend some good YouTube stuff of Ron? In return, I can recommend Buckethead's "Nottingham Lace" on YouTube, the clip where he is in a small club and in the beginning someone shouts "thank you for coming", this is some pretty good stuff along with his Nightrain solo and the beautiful TWAT solo.

Funny how all of a sudden, for some it's now all about how many notes one can shred. I remember when Buckethead was new, people complained about lack of feeling in his playing - until they heard TWAT?

I would like to hear what do the guitar players among the fans think? Me I've been playing for some time and I think Buckethead just wipes the floor with Ron - in his sleep, with both hands tied to the back, getting a manicure. My favourite player at the moment in GN'R is Richard, while Robin, surprisingly, is growing on me more everyday.

[ppbebe]

I don't know anything about music theory. I just like to listen to music....

So, excuse the ignorance, but is it possible for a guitarist to play "off key" or "the wrong notes" simply because he chooses to play the part in his own style instead of making a carbon copy of the original?




/jarmo

can't be sure as I'm not him/her but it's very possible that it is deliberate. In that case no note is wrong.
as for the key thing, they can play on key and yet differently from the original. the intent of playing off key could be to add some shock effects. the thrills of hearing something unpredictable.


I have absolute pitch and the grade 5 in music theory so I can tell you that those don't mean a shit.

I guess everyone who started their piano lessons as a preschool kid should have perfect pitch.
And that doesn?t give you a huge advantage unless you're tuning your instrument or singing music at sight. Or studying a tonal language such as Chinese.   
Relative pitch is what a musician needs.

[Feel_The_Burn]

I don't know anything about music theory. I just like to listen to music....

So, excuse the ignorance, but is it possible for a guitarist to play "off key" or "the wrong notes" simply because he chooses to play the part in his own style instead of making a carbon copy of the original?




/jarmo

Exactly , you should pick a guitar up bro' this is an approach that has seem to be long forgotten. Slash has always said that he doesn't know much theory of any at hell ( neither did SRV or Hendrix ) he merely plays what he thinks sounds good. Which is something that still continues in the GNR guitarist today , and that really makes a big difference.

[SLCPUNK]

Ron has a photographic memory for music...


"He has "perfect pitch" and a photographic memory for music, so playing back a song (any song) and trying to include the other parts (bass, other guitars, keys) at the same time is second nature to him. He's the only player I've ever seen (other than Guthrie perhaps) who has the ability to play anything, of any genre, and make it seem like he's been doing it for years. His abilities transcend technique. He could listen to the most insanely difficult piece and play it back. It's unreal.

I was in a music store one time with Ron and a guitarist was testing out an amp. He was a fairly advanced jazz player and was playing some very cool walking jazz chord stuff, with a bit of improvisation thrown in. Ron wasn't plugged in, but was playing a guitar and played EVERYTHING note for note which that guy played. Chords, improvised melody lines - everything. It sounded like a one second delay was turned on. Ron wasn't playing loud enough for the guy to hear him and he wasn't making fun of his playing. He was simply repeating everything because he thought what the guy was playing was cool. When somebody has that quick and perfect of a musical ear AND there is no technique that holds him back, the door is wide open to any possibility"

~-Paul Warren, founder of the Raleigh Music Academy-~

-PEACE-

Wow, that's cool.

[D]

Here is what I look for in a guitar player


Originality, Feel, Composition ability and Phrasing.


I could give a shit how fast or technical someone can play because that adds nothing to a song.


Gene Simmons said it best. "Id rather hear a simple A Chord that breaks your ribs, than a million notes that sounds like a bunch of angry bees"


I laugh at people who see someone do all sorts of guitar gymnastics and tricks and believe they are the greatest this or that ever. Its a novelty that wears thin.

I actually really like Buckethead. I think he had amazing potential in this band.

Ron seems awesome as well, his playing doesn't seem as clean as Bucket's.

With Bucket he was fast and amazing but u could hear what he was playing. At times, Ron's notes sound a bit jumbled and its hard to decipher exactly what he is playing.


Riffs and memorable solos impress me

I could care less how fast u can go up and down a fretboard.

[Smoking Guns]

Here is what I look for in a guitar player


Originality, Feel, Composition ability and Phrasing.


I could give a shit how fast or technical someone can play because that adds nothing to a song.


Gene Simmons said it best. "Id rather hear a simple A Chord that breaks your ribs, than a million notes that sounds like a bunch of angry bees"


I laugh at people who see someone do all sorts of guitar gymnastics and tricks and believe they are the greatest this or that ever. Its a novelty that wears thin.

I actually really like Buckethead. I think he had amazing potential in this band.

Ron seems awesome as well, his playing doesn't seem as clean as Bucket's.

With Bucket he was fast and amazing but u could hear what he was playing. At times, Ron's notes sound a bit jumbled and its hard to decipher exactly what he is playing.


Riffs and memorable solos impress me

I could care less how fast u can go up and down a fretboard.

Great post D!  What you say is what made Angus Young so great!  The perfect blend of shred/blues rock may be Michael Schenker.  Pure awesomeness.  The Solo to Rockbottom on Strangers in the Night is Excactly what I mean.  MS was a huge influence to Slash. 

[D]

It is exactly like someone watching the Harlem Globetrotters do all those fantasy basketball tricks and saying they are better than Micheal Jordan cause they can do all that stuff and he can't.

[Smoking Guns]

this is the clip.  Watch this solo, its amazing. Pure rock brilliance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnnQFLoCbWw


Holy Shit, I just watched this clip for the first time in so long.  Guys, this song came out in the 70's, look how advanced this guy was.  Its amazing.  You can see how much Slash pulls from him.  Even in the tone dept.  That solo smokes and is so well structured.  What a power house band that most people never heard of. I love it.

[Feel_The_Burn]

this is the clip.  Watch this solo, its amazing. Pure rock brilliance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnnQFLoCbWw


Holy Shit, I just watched this clip for the first time in so long.  Guys, this song came out in the 70's, look how advanced this guy was.  Its amazing.  You can see how much Slash pulls from him.  Even in the tone dept.  That solo smokes and is so well structured.  What a power house band that most people never heard of. I love it.

I'm almost certain that Mike Clink produced them , and the live album which is why GNR wanted him for their work right? UFO rock in every shape and form , not many people give them the respect they deserve. ( Rock Bottom bass line is bad ass !!! )

[Bruno Poeys]

Ron seems awesome as well, his playing doesn't seem as clean as Bucket's.
With Bucket he was fast and amazing but u could hear what he was playing. At times, Ron's notes sound a bit jumbled and its hard to decipher exactly what he is playing.

Ron is one of the few genuine fretless virtuosos. Playing fretless is very difficult because the instrument requires much more training of the fretting hand (for exact positioning and shifts) and more ear training to be able to differentiate the minimal differences in intonation that fretless instruments can express (that's where "perfect pitch" comes in). This makes Ron?s playing very clean, especially on a conventional (fretted) guitar). That's a fact. He can play faster than Buckethead, making it harder to differentiate between notes (which can appear to be sloppy to an untrained ear).

Now you know it better

[Bruno Poeys]

Hey mate, you wouldn't be surprised if I agree with you, would ya? 

not at all.

Amuses me how Richard is praised not by what he wrote, but how close to Slash he gets. Like if it's that hard... I bet A LOT of guitar players here (myself included) can come close enough to Slash in both tone and playing (I mean, covering his solos). But tell me what Richard wrote so far that reach Robin or Ron level? His The Blues outro solo is nice, but not as good as Robin's in the same song (yeah, it's an opinion, but I think the majority agree with me).

Richard doesn't have a great tone (too compressed), his writing is regular (I mean, he's a great studio session guitarist but that's it - he's not exceptional and not too different than any other regular professional studio musician) and most of his improvisations are rather boring and repetitive. Also, he tries way too hard to play Bucket's licks (above mentioned by Bruno) and Slash's solos note by note, hence why he's the favorite guy by Slash and Buckets fans (that Classic Rock article is one example).

While playing just old songs and solos he didn't write (like Madagascar one), he's good so far. But in writing skills, I've yet to see what he's capable of. Don't get me wrong, I think Richard is great. But nothing spectacular like the other guys... I don't think Axl kept him as a rhythm guitar in most of the songs for nothing.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is off topic, but i've heard Ron playing Robin's parts on Better and it wasn't bad.
well, i liked it because he didn't play like he was supposed to (probably because he hadn't time to learn even his own parts, lol, or because he wanted to), but played it in a different way and it sounded really good to me.

While I agree with you in some aspects, I disagree with your thoughts on Robin's quality. I know he's still to release a lot of music, but from what I heard so far (including covers), he's a pinnacle of creativity an quality in the band. I know it's a matter of taste, but anyways... Can't say the same to Richard, tho.

i don't think he was talking about Robin's quality, i think he was talking about the lack of released music. Hopefully Axl will fix it soon, and yes, i love his lead/rhythm playing on the new songs.

[Smoking Guns]

this is the clip.  Watch this solo, its amazing. Pure rock brilliance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnnQFLoCbWw


Holy Shit, I just watched this clip for the first time in so long.  Guys, this song came out in the 70's, look how advanced this guy was.  Its amazing.  You can see how much Slash pulls from him.  Even in the tone dept.  That solo smokes and is so well structured.  What a power house band that most people never heard of. I love it.

I'm almost certain that Mike Clink produced them , and the live album which is why GNR wanted him for their work right? UFO rock in every shape and form , not many people give them the respect they deserve. ( Rock Bottom bass line is bad ass !!! )

wow, i didn't know about Clink.  I like the "where do we go from here" part.  Did Axl borrow that from Sweet Child O'mine?  They were a brilliant rock band!

[ppbebe]

Ron is one of the few genuine fretless virtuosos. Playing fretless is very difficult because the instrument requires much more training of the fretting hand (for exact positioning and shifts) and more ear training to be able to differentiate the minimal differences in intonation that fretless instruments can express (that's where "perfect pitch" comes in). This makes Ron?s playing very clean, especially on a conventional (fretted) guitar). That's a fact.

I donno much about guitars but aren't you mixing up perfect pitch with relative pitch?

[rockNroses]

I've found the stuff I was raving about, there you go:

Buckethead - NOTTINGHAM LACE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYxrdrzmuUw
Give it some time to build up, the beginning isn't very flashy but the second half will make your ears bleed.

Buckethead - NIGHTRAIN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk7plGs3RP0
It's just unreal, one of the most memorable moments in GN'R ever for me.

I like all the players past and present (even Ron) but I honestly think no one will ever come close to what Buckethead was about to tickle out of the songs and sound of this band. He and Axl could have been the greatest Michael Jackson / Willy Wonka kind of team and I really mean that in a good way.

Hope you enjoy the Buckethead clips? Post some of Ron if you like!