Guitarist attitudes

[slashsbaconpit]

The other day I heard an interview with Dave Mustane of Megadeth fame (I?m thinking it was on Talking Metal). He said that once he records a song, it pretty much is the last time he plays it unless it becomes popular and adds it to his live show. When the interviewer asked if he knew all his songs, he was like ?That?s like over a hundred songs!? and acted like only some kind of freak would know that many songs.
Now, don?t get me wrong. I love Megadeth, but I thought the interview was funny.
Look at Bumblefoot. From all accounts, he could play 100 songs from different artists in his sleep. Buckethead could do much the same. I think Slash probably could pound out 100 songs out of his head at a moment?s notice.

Anyway, it seems that Guns always has guitarists who have more than just talent, but a lot of song knowledge of what?s come before.

I don?t know what my point is, other than I?m glad that Guns has had the guys it?s had swinging the lead ax for them.

[Jim Bob]

dude Megadeth has released like 13 studio albums, thats a lot more songs than GnR has put out.

[ppbebe]

the songs must be so unmemorable even for the very guitarist that wrote them.....

[rockNroses]

100 songs is not that much really.

Considering their talent, the guys in GN'R are quite underemployed, playing the same 20 songs over and over again don't you think?

[Slipdisc]

Ron has a photographic memory for music...


"He has "perfect pitch" and a photographic memory for music, so playing back a song (any song) and trying to include the other parts (bass, other guitars, keys) at the same time is second nature to him. He's the only player I've ever seen (other than Guthrie perhaps) who has the ability to play anything, of any genre, and make it seem like he's been doing it for years. His abilities transcend technique. He could listen to the most insanely difficult piece and play it back. It's unreal.

I was in a music store one time with Ron and a guitarist was testing out an amp. He was a fairly advanced jazz player and was playing some very cool walking jazz chord stuff, with a bit of improvisation thrown in. Ron wasn't plugged in, but was playing a guitar and played EVERYTHING note for note which that guy played. Chords, improvised melody lines - everything. It sounded like a one second delay was turned on. Ron wasn't playing loud enough for the guy to hear him and he wasn't making fun of his playing. He was simply repeating everything because he thought what the guy was playing was cool. When somebody has that quick and perfect of a musical ear AND there is no technique that holds him back, the door is wide open to any possibility"

~-Paul Warren, founder of the Raleigh Music Academy-~

-PEACE-

[rockNroses]

That sure is a gift. But I'd take a good composer over a perfect pitch hearing speed player any time.

Considering his ability, Ron's tone is quite lousy and the playing is often sloppy. Sorry, but that's a fact.

If he's so out of this world, then why does he butcher "November Rain" most of the time? That is not a hard solo at all. Also I'd like to hear his rendition of the "Nightrain" solo, but the Buckethead version please. Or give me something only half as intense as "Nottingham Lace" - played by Ron and I will shut up.

Not want to get into BF/BH thing, but Ron is a bit overrated I think. Wouldn't any guitarist with a little taste appreciate Richard a lot more if only because of the amazing tone the guy has? Even Robin is better because he is not the greatest player but the guy has feeling. Ron neither has feeling or tone, he just kind of "gets job done" wich is not enough to make them ears ring I think. Maybe for a while, but I think people will still talk about Buckethead when Ron will be history already.

[Slipdisc]

That sure is a gift. But I'd take a good composer over a perfect pitch hearing speed player any time.

Ron writes really original, catchy and powerful songs. He's responsible for some of the most critically acclaimed (exceptionally creative) songwriting ever to come forth out of the virtuoso scene. Recorded in his own studio, relying on his own production-skills. Albums that are clearly more multi dimensional than for instance Buckethead?s and usually got more credits from fans and fellow virtuosos. You're not broadly known as the new Zappa (like Ron) when you have little to offer composition-wise, Zappa was the pinnacle of creativity...

Considering his ability, Ron's tone is quite lousy and the playing is often sloppy. Sorry, but that's a fact.

Ron is one of the few genuine fretless virtuosos. Playing fretless is very difficult because the instrument requires much more training of the fretting hand (for exact positioning and shifts) and more ear training to be able to differentiate the minimal differences in intonation that fretless instruments can express (that's where "perfect pitch" comes in). This makes Ron?s playing very clean, especially on a conventional (fretted) guitar). That's a fact. He can play faster than Buckethead, making it harder to differentiate between notes (which can appear to be sloppy to an untrained ear).

If he's so out of this world, then why does he butcher "November Rain" most of the time? That is not a hard solo at all.

I never heard Ron Butcher that solo. As a matter of fact, to me he plays it better than any other GNR guitarist. Buckethead often played it in the wrong key and I?ve seen Slash butcher it countless times (like during that MTV performance).

Or give me something only half as intense as "Nottingham Lace" - played by Ron and I will shut up.

It?s all out there, look for it?

Not want to get into BF/BH thing, but Ron is a bit overrated I think. Wouldn't any guitarist with a little taste appreciate Richard a lot more if only because of the amazing tone the guy has? Even Robin is better because he is not the greatest player but the guy has feeling.

You completely disqualified yourself with that statement. In the beginning of your post you question Ron?s composing qualities and use this to make another half a dozen half assed points about the man. Yet, here you are making a case for two people who have a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y no songwriting credentials, but praise the living hell out of them nonetheless. Fact of the matter is that both Robin and Richards discographies appear to be pretty bleak in terms of quality and quantity when compared to Ron?s. How about holding everybody to those same standards instead of this fanboyish behavior?

Furthermore, emotion is a SUBJECTIVE INTERNAL EXPERIENCE being just as subjected to interpretation as music as an artform itself. So it?s pretty pointless to talk about who OBVIOUSLY has more feeling than the other. However, one thing I do know is that Ron at least has been channeling his emotions into music that he can rightfully call his during the biggest part of his life (pre-gnr), making it all emotionally as authentic and pure as it gets. Richard and Robin mostly have been playing what other people came up with throughout their lives (especially Richard the studio player). Don?t get me wrong, I wouldn?t want to miss them, but I really can?t place them in the same category (especially not higher).

-PEACE-

[Jim Bob]

Considering his ability, Ron's tone is quite lousy and the playing is often sloppy. Sorry, but that's a fact.

no, thats an opinion, actually.   I don't share it, and I know a lot of GnR fans who don't.   

[Bodhi]

I actually have a GNR interveiw CD..as Im sure most of you do also where Slash is being interviewed, and he said when Gilby came on board he actually had to put Use Your Illusion in his cd player(something he hadnt done in quite a while) to remember the parts to help show Gilby how it was done....grant it those were Izzy's parts...but I know for a fact that Slash has said on several occasions that he never listens to his own records

[Gunner80]

Ron has a photographic memory for music...


"He has "perfect pitch" and a photographic memory for music, so playing back a song (any song) and trying to include the other parts (bass, other guitars, keys) at the same time is second nature to him. He's the only player I've ever seen (other than Guthrie perhaps) who has the ability to play anything, of any genre, and make it seem like he's been doing it for years. His abilities transcend technique. He could listen to the most insanely difficult piece and play it back. It's unreal.

I was in a music store one time with Ron and a guitarist was testing out an amp. He was a fairly advanced jazz player and was playing some very cool walking jazz chord stuff, with a bit of improvisation thrown in. Ron wasn't plugged in, but was playing a guitar and played EVERYTHING note for note which that guy played. Chords, improvised melody lines - everything. It sounded like a one second delay was turned on. Ron wasn't playing loud enough for the guy to hear him and he wasn't making fun of his playing. He was simply repeating everything because he thought what the guy was playing was cool. When somebody has that quick and perfect of a musical ear AND there is no technique that holds him back, the door is wide open to any possibility"

~-Paul Warren, founder of the Raleigh Music Academy-~

-PEACE-

And yet the guy has yet to write anything that will be remembered.

[Bruno Poeys]

That sure is a gift. But I'd take a good composer over a perfect pitch hearing speed player any time.

you're talking out of your ass, i know, because you havent heard his albums yet.

Considering his ability, Ron's tone is quite lousy and the playing is often sloppy.

here's a review at unfretted.com: "Bumblefoot (Ron Thal), the big man of the fretless"
Do you really think that the big man of the fretless's playing is often sloppy?
that's the same as some youtube kids saying '"LawLzZz!1!!!! BbF's 0ut of tun3!!!111", when he's got absolute pitch (perfect pitch).

If he's so out of this world, then why does he butcher "November Rain" most of the time? That is not a hard solo at all.

Funny, because i've heard Ron playing it like 30, 40+ times and i dont remember him being sloppy or butchering it once.

Also I'd like to hear his rendition of the "Nightrain" solo, but the Buckethead version please.

Ha, do you actually think Buckethead's version is harder to play? Dude, Ron plays as fast if not faster than Buckethead on his fretless guitar! FRETLESS GUITAR!

Or give me something only half as intense as "Nottingham Lace" - played by Ron and I will shut up.

guitars still suck, orf, guitars suck, fly in the batter, don pardo pimpwagon... i'm not the right guy to say that, though.

Not want to get into BF/BH thing, but Ron is a bit overrated I think. Wouldn't any guitarist with a little taste appreciate Richard a lot more if only because of the amazing tone the guy has? Even Robin is better because he is not the greatest player but the guy has feeling. Ron neither has feeling or tone, he just kind of "gets job done" wich is not enough to make them ears ring I think. Maybe for a while, but I think people will still talk about Buckethead when Ron will be history already.

dude, Slash fans will appreciate Richard more, of course. He plays some Slash's solos note for note, plays Buckethead's solos note for note  and yet he 'steals' a buckethead lick. He's not even close to Ron, in any aspect. ANY aspect.

i'm just posting a few things i'd like to say, but slipdisc already covered it all.

[HungerForChaos]

Ron has a photographic memory for music...


"He has "perfect pitch" and a photographic memory for music, so playing back a song (any song) and trying to include the other parts (bass, other guitars, keys) at the same time is second nature to him. He's the only player I've ever seen (other than Guthrie perhaps) who has the ability to play anything, of any genre, and make it seem like he's been doing it for years. His abilities transcend technique. He could listen to the most insanely difficult piece and play it back. It's unreal.

I was in a music store one time with Ron and a guitarist was testing out an amp. He was a fairly advanced jazz player and was playing some very cool walking jazz chord stuff, with a bit of improvisation thrown in. Ron wasn't plugged in, but was playing a guitar and played EVERYTHING note for note which that guy played. Chords, improvised melody lines - everything. It sounded like a one second delay was turned on. Ron wasn't playing loud enough for the guy to hear him and he wasn't making fun of his playing. He was simply repeating everything because he thought what the guy was playing was cool. When somebody has that quick and perfect of a musical ear AND there is no technique that holds him back, the door is wide open to any possibility"

~-Paul Warren, founder of the Raleigh Music Academy-~

-PEACE-

And yet the guy has yet to write anything that will be remembered.

Having memorable music and being popular are two different things.

[Feel_The_Burn]

I think that no offense to megadeth  , they put out some great music , but to me it's pretty standard metal riff'age which isn't bad at all but its just that , riffs. Since the start Guns has had guitar hooks , I mean Jungle , Paradise City , Sweet Child , the guitar playing is as memorable as the lyrics. It continues with the current band's guitarist as well , they all know it goes well beyond playing the guitar , you have to create something. It's like an art within an art.! 

[Gunner80]

Ron has a photographic memory for music...


"He has "perfect pitch" and a photographic memory for music, so playing back a song (any song) and trying to include the other parts (bass, other guitars, keys) at the same time is second nature to him. He's the only player I've ever seen (other than Guthrie perhaps) who has the ability to play anything, of any genre, and make it seem like he's been doing it for years. His abilities transcend technique. He could listen to the most insanely difficult piece and play it back. It's unreal.

I was in a music store one time with Ron and a guitarist was testing out an amp. He was a fairly advanced jazz player and was playing some very cool walking jazz chord stuff, with a bit of improvisation thrown in. Ron wasn't plugged in, but was playing a guitar and played EVERYTHING note for note which that guy played. Chords, improvised melody lines - everything. It sounded like a one second delay was turned on. Ron wasn't playing loud enough for the guy to hear him and he wasn't making fun of his playing. He was simply repeating everything because he thought what the guy was playing was cool. When somebody has that quick and perfect of a musical ear AND there is no technique that holds him back, the door is wide open to any possibility"

~-Paul Warren, founder of the Raleigh Music Academy-~

-PEACE-

And yet the guy has yet to write anything that will be remembered.

Having memorable music and being popular are two different things.

Any great artist want's their music to be remembered in some way, and so far no one is going to remember Bumblefoot. The greatest of them all Beethoven, wrote music to be remembered. Having perfect pitch and music memory means jack shit in rock music.

[Christos AG]

Bumblefoot rocks...

Buy his latest album, Normal, and see for yourself...

[Sober_times]

Bumblefoot rocks...

Buy his latest album, Normal, and see for yourself...

Bumblefoot not only rocks, he's un-fucking-believable.  I hope he gets to put some sizable input on future gnr releases. 

[Leddy]

Bumblefoot rocks...

Buy his latest album, Normal, and see for yourself...

Totally agree, I LOVE that album.

[Slipdisc]

And yet the guy has yet to write anything that will be remembered.

Any great artist want's their music to be remembered in some way, and so far no one is going to remember Bumblefoot.

Those statements are nothing but an exercise in ignorance. Popularity doesn?t equal quality. So what if the guy hasn?t got mainstream successes under his belt, look at what mainstream music has become. He has some of the most memorable releases ever coming forth out of the virtuoso/prog. rock scene on his discography. Who are you and your mainstream perspective and ignorance towards the man?s work, to conclude that all of this isn?t worth remembering? Since when is your taste in music the status quo we all should live by? Since when is everything that isn't able to position itself in your narrow mind equally trivial to all of us? Ron is already a guy of mythological proportions during his life, he will be remembered by those who matter.

 

Having perfect pitch and music memory means jack shit in rock music.

No it means jack shit to you. In the end every musician (in every genre) is happy to have as little barriers (technique, timing, tone etc) as possible to overcome when trying to materialize (play) the music that lives inside of him. The more naturally gifted you are, the easier it is to make that translation hence making the translation in itself more authentic and pure than when somebody who has to struggle.

-PEACE-

 

[alex_27]

I think Bucket is better than Ron.
The guitar solos of GNR clasics songs played by Bucket are fantastic. The Ron solos of GNR songs are very poor. He only moves his fingers from up to down and always sounds the same.
Anyway, we have to hear him in the album. But live, i really dont like Ron.

[Voodoochild]

If he's so out of this world, then why does he butcher "November Rain" most of the time? That is not a hard solo at all.

I never heard Ron Butcher that solo. As a matter of fact, to me he plays it better than any other GNR guitarist. Buckethead often played it in the wrong key and I?ve seen Slash butcher it countless times (like during that MTV performance).

OMG, I thought I was the only one noticing that. It was HORRIBLE! I remember stating this fact somewhere and get bashed by Bucket fans... Also, tell me if I'm that tone depth, but Richard also gets the wrong key in his last note on November Rain solo, right?

And I agree with you, Ron plays NR solo better than anyone. Even Slash often fucked up his own solo live if you compare to the original...

Fact of the matter is that both Robin and Richards discographies appear to be pretty bleak in terms of quality and quantity when compared to Ron?s. How about holding everybody to those same standards instead of this fanboyish behavior?

While I agree with you in some aspects, I disagree with your thoughts on Robin's quality. I know he's still to release a lot of music, but from what I heard so far (including covers), he's a pinnacle of creativity an quality in the band. I know it's a matter of taste, but anyways... Can't say the same to Richard, tho.

Not want to get into BF/BH thing, but Ron is a bit overrated I think. Wouldn't any guitarist with a little taste appreciate Richard a lot more if only because of the amazing tone the guy has? Even Robin is better because he is not the greatest player but the guy has feeling. Ron neither has feeling or tone, he just kind of "gets job done" wich is not enough to make them ears ring I think. Maybe for a while, but I think people will still talk about Buckethead when Ron will be history already.

dude, Slash fans will appreciate Richard more, of course. He plays some Slash's solos note for note, plays Buckethead's solos note for note  and yet he 'steals' a buckethead lick. He's not even close to Ron, in any aspect. ANY aspect.

Hey mate, you wouldn't be surprised if I agree with you, would ya? 

Amuses me how Richard is praised not by what he wrote, but how close to Slash he gets. Like if it's that hard... I bet A LOT of guitar players here (myself included) can come close enough to Slash in both tone and playing (I mean, covering his solos). But tell me what Richard wrote so far that reach Robin or Ron level? His The Blues outro solo is nice, but not as good as Robin's in the same song (yeah, it's an opinion, but I think the majority agree with me).

Richard doesn't have a great tone (too compressed), his writing is regular (I mean, he's a great studio session guitarist but that's it - he's not exceptional and not too different than any other regular professional studio musician) and most of his improvisations are rather boring and repetitive. Also, he tries way too hard to play Bucket's licks (above mentioned by Bruno) and Slash's solos note by note, hence why he's the favorite guy by Slash and Buckets fans (that Classic Rock article is one example).

While playing just old songs and solos he didn't write (like Madagascar one), he's good so far. But in writing skills, I've yet to see what he's capable of. Don't get me wrong, I think Richard is great. But nothing spectacular like the other guys... I don't think Axl kept him as a rhythm guitar in most of the songs for nothing.