Out of Patience, Give Us Chinese Democracy! Antimusic.com

[jarmo]

jarmo, if you want to run your site as a censored newspaper, then thats all fine and dandy because its your house.

It was a fucking analogy, not the description of this site.

however, let everyone know that this site is NOT a place for open discussion and a place to come and agree or disagree with other.

Talk about taking things out of context.

If there's certain things that we choose not to discuss, it doesn't mean we don't discuss anything now does it?

The thing is, most people dont know that this site is constantly censored, so they are only reading one point of view . so, there should be some large disclaimer in bold lettering so the people know that there is only one point of view allowed here and that point of view is yours. and your are perfectly allowed to do that because this is your kingdom. just be open and honest with everyone and not just the people who called you out on this thread...

I think we should have some kind of IQ test on the site before you can login. 

If you don't understand that this board is moderated (like most others) then you haven't been paying any attention.


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Oddly enough, some of the same people who have issues with how I choose to run this site are the ones who demand updates and are "upset" with GN'R.



/jarmo

[lakersaregreat]

jarmo, i didnt read the disclosure when i signed up. please, no one does. its tiny and no one cares. plus, even if one does read it, it is a blank censor waiver. who gets to decide what is "objectionable" or "false?" you of course! so anything that is posted can fit into that definition because you can define those terms any way you want. you know that the vast majority of people here do not know that you censor the site 24/7. all im saying, is let them know that and dont bury it in tiny print when the register. i was hoping to have fair, open discussion here. that's disappointing....

[Giant_Robot]

jarmo, i didnt read the disclosure when i signed up. please, no one does. its tiny and no one cares. plus, even if one does read it, it is a blank censor waiver. who gets to decide what is "objectionable" or "false?" you of course! so anything that is posted can fit into that definition because you can define those terms any way you want. you know that the vast majority of people here do not know that you censor the site 24/7. all im saying, is let them know that and dont bury it in tiny print when the register. i was hoping to have fair, open discussion here. that's disappointing....

If you dont like it go ?
Because it wasting my time reading rubbish and your time writing rubbish you dont have to be here at all !
So please go.

[jarmo]

jarmo, i didnt read the disclosure when i signed up. please, no one does. its tiny and no one cares. plus, even if one does read it, it is a blank censor waiver.

Is that my fault?

who gets to decide what is "objectionable" or "false?" you of course!

Correct answer!

It makes sense to most people that the one(s) who run the site should have control over what's on it.


Who did you think? Santa Claus? The Tooth Fairy? You?

so anything that is posted can fit into that definition because you can define those terms any way you want. you know that the vast majority of people here do not know that you censor the site 24/7. all im saying, is let them know that and dont bury it in tiny print when the register. i was hoping to have fair, open discussion here. that's disappointing....

Oh my God....

It's called common sense!


You don't have signs one every street corner saying the police is making sure the law is upheld either, but common sense tells you that they might.

No wonder there's warning labels about the bag containing peanuts on fucking peanut bags... 




/jarmo

[Olorin]

You mention having an open mind, but you seem to be pigeonholing people who use this site. It is possible to discuss the comings and goings of GN'R without the intent  of starting an argument or being a "troll".

Adults should be able to discuss things reasonably, have their opinion heard and hear the opinion of others.
It doesnt seem right that you are stopping the game saying:

 "Its my ball, you play it my way or you can just go home"

If you constantly think the worst of the band you claim to support, I don't think you're being particularly open minded or positive.


I'm stopping the game? Damn right.

We have people who admit they see no problems going on and on with the same shit year after year.

I don't need that here!

Maybe you think that's normal and fun. I don't.

You're free to associate yourself with any kind of crowd you want. I'm not stopping you.

I'm saying that I don't need to surround myself with the kind of people who are trying hard to put me down, because I refuse to join their little club of disgruntled true fans.



I can't believe I have to do this week after week because you people refuse to fucking accept that you have no control over how I choose to run the site I started in 1996.

For all of you who keep questioning me WEEK AFTER WEEK. What's your reason?

Do you honestly think I'll wake up one day and realize "Hey, they're right! I should let them talk shit about GN'R because they're so unhappy about certain aspects of the band! It's only right that I let them turn something I worked on for years to shit because they obviously are upset! Why didn't I see this before!?!"?




/jarmo

Well me personally my reason for joining this discussion is that, like I said before, I feel you are pigeonholing people who visit this site.

I have never thought "the worse" of the band "I claim" to support, I am not "disgruntled" at all, I will be actually be sad when the wait is all over because its been such a big part of my life for 10 years.
 Please don't refer to me as "you people", you are associating myself and others to fit your narrowminded view of visitors to this site.

I don't know how many people come here "constantly think the worst of the band" and post narrow minded views in a troll like fashion, you know better than me as you are admin. I guess a lot get deleted, if the content of sites like cd.com are anything to go by. I never see posts like the typical ones of those sites around here.
Thats why I come here to read about GN'R and have done for 8 years, this site is not full bile and flaming of "noobs".
For example, I'm autistic and quite sensitive about it, I have been wanting to make a post about it in The Jungle, to see if there are any other members in a similar situation or know of anyone. But I would never even consider making a post like that on other GN'R forums because I couldnt face the snidey smug comments from real trolls who frequent those sites. I figured that I could get some useful discussion from some of the members here, because I judge many of the members here to have an opinion worth hearing.

I am grateful for "your site" and I am capable of understanding that you run it the way you seem fit, thats your devine right.

But you dont have the right to label every single person a hater who discusses the cons as well as the pros about GN'R.

[jarmo]

For example, I'm autistic and quite sensitive about it, I have been wanting to make a post about it in The Jungle, to see if there are any other members in a similar situation or know of anyone. But I would never even consider making a post like that on other GN'R forums because I couldnt face the snidey smug comments from real trolls who frequent those sites. I figured that I could get some useful discussion from some of the members here, because I judge many of the members here to have an opinion worth hearing.

That's a nice compliment to get.

It's basically what my goal has always been. Anybody, no matter where they're from, age, sex, background, religion, how long they've been a fan etc. should feel welcome here and not be afraid to post as long as they are positive, believe in and support (the current) GN'R.

I don't want people to feel scared of posting, because somebody who doesn't like that there's no album, might attack them.

But you dont have the right to label every single person a hater who discusses the cons as well as the pros about GN'R.

And I don't.

It's a group of people who think they have the right to demand others to adjust to their needs. The band, myself etc etc.

I've tried to have discussions with these debate loving fans, but for some weird reason they turn to insults and then get all upset when they get banned after being warned several times.





/jarmo

[Olorin]

You sound very weary Jarmo, I think you should be giving your mods written warnings for not doing their jobs properly.

You are far to important to be sifting through these threads day and night, you will end up with premature wrinkles.

Enjoy the Superbowl!

[misterID]

I do think people are angry and are repetative in their displeasure at the wait and bs, but I just see that as very pasionate fans who do care about GNR. But I can see it from your perspective that it would be annoying. But the result of that ends with people feeling picked on, their fanhood questioned, and all that makes does is make the situation worse.

My point is, if you're that passionate, use that energy for something good.

Think a a little further than "I want the album out".

Now this is where I whole heartedly disagree with you.

If a band is a certain way, you have to accept certain aspects about them you don't like. But that doesn't give them any right to shit on you. Example, in 2002 some friends of mine went to the Detroit and Philly shows. Friends who were HUGE fans. I can't tell you how disappointed they were when Axl got pissed off in the middle of Patience because the band screwed up and he forgot some words, and he stormed off and shut down the show. They were so excited to see their favorite band and felt completely cheated at the end. No official explanation was given at all for why he split in the middle of the show. One friend went to the Philly gig, and we both know how that turned out.

Ok, but I don't think GN'R has ever "shit on" the fans.

You mention the Detroit show from over five years ago. I don't know, I was under the impression that we're all human. The show was cut short. It happens!

It's happened to me too. By other bands!


You want every show to be a three hour marathon. Then you realize, maybe you don't. It's like every day being Christmas.... Then it's not a special occasion when they do play a longer show.



We don't know what happened in Philly other than some "fans" using it as an excuse to destroy things that's not theirs.

At least you were not given a "we couldn't play because of the snow on the arena roofs" excuse. 

Now, I will not EVER say these fans are not entitled to be angry, or they have no right to voice their displeasure. They are fans today, somewhat, but refuse to spend any money on another concert, and it took a long while for them to be interested in CD again. They have a right to be jaded. And a lot of people here who are labled whiners have very solid arguments, and that irks me to the umpth degree, and their points get twisted and squashed in a "My gang vs. your gang" kind of bickering that serves no one any good.

I'd tell that person to get over it. It's been a few years.....


The little experience I have of going to concerts, I've still had bands play short sets, cancel shows and start "late".

It happens. It's what makes going to a show a bit different from sitting at home watching it on a bootleg DVD....

Now this whole thing cracks me up. How is it that a band member of GNR know less then your "source" which you have yet to name or even give a hint at?

"A" for effort on trying to get yourself attention though...

I don't think the point was about who knows more or less, the point was that the album hasn't been turned in.....






/jarmo

Oh lord... I thought we tried to end this on a positive note. I don't think you really read anything I wrote, nor did a few others. Reading to come back with a response is a lot different than really reading. Oh well... I tried.


After skimming this thread, I can see there's no getting through to people who slap assumptions on other fans because they don't view the world through Axl Rose tinted glasses. Then turn around and bitch about people casting assumptions on them and the band.

And remember, when you tell people to stop whining and complaining, and to get over things that happened five years ago, you're actually talking about Axl. Us whiners are much closer in the Axl Rose philosphy of life than you "positive" folks. Especially when he rants on stage every night he plays (what is a rant by the way?) isn't always the most positive person, typically feels persecuted, doesn't like being forced into a box, fighting conformity, speaking up for ones self and not cow towing to authority...Oh yeah, when Axl was bitching about ten year old bad reviews on the 2002 tour I didn't see any of you "positive" folks telling him to get over it.

[faldor]

That's because Axl Rose's rants are funny.  Yours are not.

Seriously, enough is enough.  All this arguing isn't solving anything, you're not gonna change our minds.  We're not gonna change yours.  You've made your stance quite clear.  Point well taken.  Let's move on!

[misterID]

What have I been saying the last few posts? Did this just strike you like an epiphany from GOD that no one is going to see things the same way? Did I not just get done saying none of us are going to see things the same way, but we needed to respect each others views? Sometimes it helps to read and understand fully what you're talking about. I asked to describe what a rant is and you ignored it to put in a little, generic jab, exactly what I just got done talking about people in this thread doing; not reading before they post. Can you do that?


BTW, what's the name of this article? Out of Patience, give us Chinese Democracy. Are you going to tell the Talking Metal and Antimusic people to stop waiting and stop complaining in their articles about wanting to hear CD? Or bitch about their speculation? Or are they not going to be allowed to have their articles, transcripts, and promos for podcasts posted here, because they won't stop whining or get on with their lives? I think they're fans too, right? What crowd do they fall under, since we're categoring fans now?

[wight gunner]

Quote from: wight gunner on Yesterday at 03:02:42 PM
Jarmo. I think part of the problem is that you are percieved to have an envied connection with the band, as such people think that you've kisssed major ass to have this.


Yeah, and it's all assumptions.


You can say "things have changed in the last year" or whatever. Well, things have changed in the GN'R world too.

Before 2006 I hadn't seen the current band live..... So I should feel the same as I did in 2005? I don't think so.



I don't know where all these bullshit stories that I have the album come from, I can only guess. It doesn't require too much thinking (good thing right Younggunner?).

I believe you, thanks....

[jarmo]

BTW, what's the name of this article? Out of Patience, give us Chinese Democracy. Are you going to tell the Talking Metal and Antimusic people to stop waiting and stop complaining in their articles about wanting to hear CD? Or bitch about their speculation?

The guy who wrote the article actually presents ideas to possible get the album out instead of the usual "Axl, give us a release date and put out the album".

That's constructive!




/jarmo

[lakersaregreat]

BTW, what's the name of this article? Out of Patience, give us Chinese Democracy. Are you going to tell the Talking Metal and Antimusic people to stop waiting and stop complaining in their articles about wanting to hear CD? Or bitch about their speculation?

The guy who wrote the article actually presents ideas to possible get the album out instead of the usual "Axl, give us a release date and put out the album".

That's constructive!




/jarmo

Hey, Jarmo. As I stated before, that is your    opinion  . Maybe others don't agree with it, so let others state their own opinion. You think you speak for GNR and you don't. Why do you think your opinion is so much better than others? That's just arrogance...Sorry......

[CheapJon]

 

no what jarmo stated is actually a fact, check the first post yourself

[lakersaregreat]

no what jarmo stated is actually a fact, check the first post yourself

I don't want to get into petty arguments about facts. The point I was making was simply about allowing others to have different opinions than his. I do  not think it is constructive to keep up the back n' forth arguing. It's someone's opinion, it is not porn, but it differs from jarmos. just let them be heard is all im asking.

[ppbebe]

tell us why you think the article is not constructive.  That'd be still relevant.
what you're asking belongs to the admin section.

This thread is about the marketing ideas from fans point of view. for the forthcoming release.
The other thread was about cd's present status.

As far as I know axl didn't say anything about ancient events on stage in 2006 2007. 
Why so backward?
There's a suitable place for that. ie dead horse.

[jarmo]

Hey, Jarmo. As I stated before, that is your    opinion  . Maybe others don't agree with it, so let others state their own opinion. You think you speak for GNR and you don't. Why do you think your opinion is so much better than others? That's just arrogance...Sorry......

Now you're being as ignorant as some of the people who claim they were banned for disagreeing with me even though they clearly broke the rules of this board by insulting me.

I guess you might be one of those people since you claim the same exact things they do: That I think I speak for GN'R and that I think my opinion is better than others.

That's fucking stupid and bullshit.

I don't know why you refuse to understand that this place is for people who have similar views as myself about GN'R. Nowhere do we think out opinion is better!

I personally (not talking for GN'R) think the view is something I believe in and it feels like the right thing to do. You know, you love a band so it makes sense doe me to support them instead of put them down.

I think (personally again) that it's much cooler to be surrounded by positive supportive people than a bunch of jealous true fans who are only interested in whining and to come up with bullshit theories like "you think you speak for the band".



You obviously have some issue with me not allowing the whiners to take over the threads. Too fucking bad!

A lot of people don't agree with me, but they have the decency to actually present their opinion in an intelligent way and to think before posting (there's that horrible "theme" again) instead of attacking me for "not allowing different opinions to be heard" or the "you think you speak for the band" bullshit.


By the way, if you only come here to teach me how to run this site, you might as well just stop... It's not gonna change.



For the last time, you have no "rights" whatsoever here. You signed up by your own choice. I didn't make you sign up.

As soon as you realize that you're a guest here and adjust, the better

It's always nice to get suggestions from the visitors, but this constant fucking "you don't allow other views" bullshit is not that. You're only upset because I won't let you act like you run this place.


Edit: IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS ISSUES WITH HOW THIS SITE IS RUN, POST THEM IN THE RIGHT SECTION AND I'LL KEEP "DEBATING" IT WITH YOU THERE.

This particular issue is done in this thread.

There, I don't allow you to post your opinion about the site or me in this thread. How about that!


Next reply that isn't on topic, will earn you a warning.




/jarmo

[LordRazZ]

Whoa....down boy.

Damn J...I thought you were unflappable. Although, I did just watch I Am Legend.

Jarmo's a zombie.

There. I've said it.

Anyway, we all love you, you're wonderful, yadda yadda.

Now give me the access code to the ban button. I'll take care of this one.

[Death Cube K]

I have never been speaking negatively about GNR. I've been way too soft on how things have been handled. Just because I'm a follower and a supporter doesn't mean I can't speak up when there's something going on that I don't like. There are several things about GNR that I do not agree, for example how on earth that album still isn't out.

But it seems to me that a good fan is a positive fan at all costs on this board. It's a highly interesting approach, at best. Whiners and constant complains is one thing and they should be dealt with, but I will not sit back and be positive or happy with everything GNR does. I buy GNR records, tickets and merchendise and I am therefore qualified to disagree or voice my opinion when there's stuff going on that I don't like. My money is in this project. The idea about a forum only with positivity is not a forum I can support. A forum that does not accept discussion (note discussion!) about a big article in Classic Rock is also not a forum I can support. Unfortenately. A forum that runs with moderators that's using a downright degrading choice of words towards members is not acceptable either. Their posts should be dealt with but not in that way, no matter how frustrating it can be to read the same shit over and over again. I see it here way to often and I truly do not like this attitude and it doesn't make this forum gain more members at all.

That is MY opinion.

And if I can't discuss the article in Classic Rock and voice an opinion about it I'm sure Jarmo or any other rational person over the age of 18 can, then I'll do as Axl told us concerning GNR, "take a break". It's simply gone a bit too far here. The forum is run on ideals that isn't natural. I can go along with that, but not the arrogance and degrading tone the moderators use here. As Jarmo repeats in every other posts, we can go other places to discuss it. That's what I wanna do. Leave. Case closed. No problems

[jarmo]

Ok, since nobody seems to read what I said and like to point out how mean we are because we have to keep telling the same shit to the same people over and over again....

Here it is again:

IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS ISSUES WITH HOW THIS SITE IS RUN, POST THEM IN THE RIGHT SECTION AND I'LL KEEP "DEBATING" IT WITH YOU THERE.

This particular issue is done in this thread.

Next reply that isn't on topic, will earn you a warning.

Thanks for reading!




/jarmo