Study: False statements preceded war

[fuckin crazy]

can someone explain the strawman reference...i have not heard that anywhere but here....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[Bodhi]

I think conservatives feel that way because this country was built on christian ideas and principals.....so they stick to that hardcore...a perfect example is how poorly Mitt Romney did, when he was by FAR the most conservative candidate running....he lined up with most of the conservatives ideas except for one thing....he was a mormon...and that killed him....if he were a christian he would have wiped the floor with Mccain because Huckabee woudlnt have been taking a good chunk of his votes....

I can accept the role of some Christian ideas in creating this country, but it's also got roots in the Enlightenment, which was largely anti-religion.  Thus, we struck a balance.  A country with freedom of religion and freedom from religion.  I have no problem with voters voting for those who they feel reflects their values.  That's fine.  My problem is when they want to impose those values on others.  There are two types of values...personal and societal.  I'll go out of my way to respect anyone's personal values, so long as they respect mine.  But I see in a lot of social conservatives a desire to elevate their personal values to the level of societal values.  In some areas, I can understand this (abortion, for example), while in others I think it makes no sense whatsoever (gay marriage/civil unions).  It also concerns me that some so clearly want to mix religion and education, as if they're totally ignorant of the fact that others might have different religious beliefs, and might not appreciate having those of others forced onto them.

If the GOP think that taxes hinder freedom, why can't they see that having someone's religious beliefs forced upon you is a far injustice done unto liberty than taxes could ever be?   

you have to look at the relgion...a true christian is supposed to force their beliefs onto others...thats what the bible tells them to do...to spread the word of god....they don't feel like they are hurting people they feel like they are helping people....when Bush referred to Islam as a good religion a few years ago...the christians were up in arms about it...because to them every other religion is false....thats where it gets a tricky....as a christian you have to force it onto others...otherwise you are not doing Gods work....I know some pretty hardcore christians and that is what the hardcore ones believe....how can you aruge with someone if they dont think what they are doing is hurting anyone?

You can't argue with that, I suppose, though anyone who really believes that is walking a tightrope, as others can claim to do the same to them.  Imagine if the views of other religions were forced on them.  Of course, they'd absolutely shit, and rightfully so.  It's a shame that some can't or won't see or don't care about the hypocrisy of defying the Constitution while simultaneously demanding its protections.

their bible IS their constitution...the constitution is meanlingless to them compared to the bible...thats why they dont care

[*Timothy*]

[Bodhi]

can someone explain the strawman reference...i have not heard that anywhere but here....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

ahhh I see....so pretty much the strawman technique describes everything that Booker Floyd has ever posted on this site.

[freedom78]

their bible IS their constitution...the constitution is meanlingless to them compared to the bible...thats why they dont care

So what you're saying is it's more important to them to apply their own morality to others, rather than living under a legal system that tries to guarantee fairness and protection to all, regardless of religion?

This position is completely foreign to me, as all the religious people I know (including family) are not at all like that.

[Bodhi]

their bible IS their constitution...the constitution is meanlingless to them compared to the bible...thats why they dont care

So what you're saying is it's more important to them to apply their own morality to others, rather than living under a legal system that tries to guarantee fairness and protection to all, regardless of religion?

I'm not saying all christians...but some of them find this WHOLE WORLD meaningless...nevermind the legal system....as long as the legal system follows what the bible says they are cool with it..im telling you...i have talked with alot of born again christians...it is their religion or NOTHING....

[Bodhi]

their bible IS their constitution...the constitution is meanlingless to them compared to the bible...thats why they dont care

So what you're saying is it's more important to them to apply their own morality to others, rather than living under a legal system that tries to guarantee fairness and protection to all, regardless of religion?

This position is completely foreign to me, as all the religious people I know (including family) are not at all like that.

are they catholic or born again christians...because i never used to know this but there is a HUGE difference....

[freedom78]

their bible IS their constitution...the constitution is meanlingless to them compared to the bible...thats why they dont care

So what you're saying is it's more important to them to apply their own morality to others, rather than living under a legal system that tries to guarantee fairness and protection to all, regardless of religion?

I'm not saying all christians...but some of them find this WHOLE WORLD meaningless...nevermind the legal system....as long as the legal system follows what the bible says they are cool with it..im telling you...i have talked with alot of born again christians...it is their religion or NOTHING....

Call me crazy, but that sounds an awful lot like something this guy would believe:



Seriously.  I'm not even slightly kidding.  The idea that someone's religion trumps everyone else's rights...that's truly frightening.

[freedom78]

their bible IS their constitution...the constitution is meanlingless to them compared to the bible...thats why they dont care

So what you're saying is it's more important to them to apply their own morality to others, rather than living under a legal system that tries to guarantee fairness and protection to all, regardless of religion?

This position is completely foreign to me, as all the religious people I know (including family) are not at all like that.

are they catholic or born again christians...because i never used to know this but there is a HUGE difference....

Most of my family is Protestant, and not really evangelical at all.  A couple of Catholics have married in.  One who briefly went off the religious deep end after "seeing the light" during surgery.

[Bodhi]

their bible IS their constitution...the constitution is meanlingless to them compared to the bible...thats why they dont care

So what you're saying is it's more important to them to apply their own morality to others, rather than living under a legal system that tries to guarantee fairness and protection to all, regardless of religion?

I'm not saying all christians...but some of them find this WHOLE WORLD meaningless...nevermind the legal system....as long as the legal system follows what the bible says they are cool with it..im telling you...i have talked with alot of born again christians...it is their religion or NOTHING....

Call me crazy, but that sounds an awful lot like something this guy would believe:



Seriously.  I'm not even slightly kidding.  The idea that someone's religion trumps everyone else's rights...that's truly frightening.

i agree with you...but christians arent flying planes into buildings to get their point across....not yet anyway

[Bodhi]

their bible IS their constitution...the constitution is meanlingless to them compared to the bible...thats why they dont care

So what you're saying is it's more important to them to apply their own morality to others, rather than living under a legal system that tries to guarantee fairness and protection to all, regardless of religion?

This position is completely foreign to me, as all the religious people I know (including family) are not at all like that.

are they catholic or born again christians...because i never used to know this but there is a HUGE difference....

Most of my family is Protestant, and not really evangelical at all.  A couple of Catholics have married in.  One who briefly went off the religious deep end after "seeing the light" during surgery.

oh ok...im judging my experience off of alot of born again christians...who would fall under the evangelical category I guess....they are a trip.....the catholics I know could care less about the bible...they do what they want all week and then go to church on sundays

[freedom78]

their bible IS their constitution...the constitution is meanlingless to them compared to the bible...thats why they dont care

So what you're saying is it's more important to them to apply their own morality to others, rather than living under a legal system that tries to guarantee fairness and protection to all, regardless of religion?

I'm not saying all christians...but some of them find this WHOLE WORLD meaningless...nevermind the legal system....as long as the legal system follows what the bible says they are cool with it..im telling you...i have talked with alot of born again christians...it is their religion or NOTHING....

Call me crazy, but that sounds an awful lot like something this guy would believe:



Seriously.  I'm not even slightly kidding.  The idea that someone's religion trumps everyone else's rights...that's truly frightening.

i agree with you...but christians arent flying planes into buildings to get their point across....not yet anyway

Well, shit, they've (I suppose "we've" if I count myself) already got a couple of crusades under our belts.  Anyway, when it comes to forcing others into a religion, I'm not sure the methods are really that important.  Seriously, this reminds me of the Inquisition or something. 

[SLCPUNK]

i agree with you...but christians arent flying planes into buildings to get their point across....not yet anyway

Christians are lying about reasons to go to war and killing hundreds of thousands in the process though.

[freedom78]

their bible IS their constitution...the constitution is meanlingless to them compared to the bible...thats why they dont care

So what you're saying is it's more important to them to apply their own morality to others, rather than living under a legal system that tries to guarantee fairness and protection to all, regardless of religion?

This position is completely foreign to me, as all the religious people I know (including family) are not at all like that.

are they catholic or born again christians...because i never used to know this but there is a HUGE difference....

Most of my family is Protestant, and not really evangelical at all.  A couple of Catholics have married in.  One who briefly went off the religious deep end after "seeing the light" during surgery.

oh ok...im judging my experience off of alot of born again christians...who would fall under the evangelical category I guess....they are a trip.....the catholics I know could care less about the bible...they do what they want all week and then go to church on sundays

So, based on this, are you then a secular conservative?  Or just a non-evangelical religious conservative? 

[fuckin crazy]

So, based on this, are you then a secular conservative?  Or just a non-evangelical religious conservative? 

I'm an evangelical liberal. His holiness, "The Flying Spaghetti Monster", will smite those fake gods with loads of marinara.

RAmen my brother.

[freedom78]

So, based on this, are you then a secular conservative?  Or just a non-evangelical religious conservative? 

I'm an evangelical liberal. His holiness "The Flying Spaghetti Monster" will smite those fake gods with loads of marinara.

RAmen my brother.

Marinara is sooo Old Testament, with all the smiting.  The New Testament is more live and let live.  Very pesto, if you ask me.

OK...stop.  This is making me hungry. 

[Perfect Criminal]

of course not...but are you telling me that abortion being used as a form of birth control not what it should be used for is a GOOD thing...is that HELPING america in anyway?? how can people who are so concerned with the innocent lives in iraq have no regard whatsoever for the children being innocently slaughtered by parents who couldnt keep it in their pants or were too lazy to buy condoms or birth control pills...I am saying that it is bringing this country further into degeneracy...there are alot of problems in this country and alot of you just overlook them...

Here is a fallacy for you:

How can people so concerned life be pro-capital punishment(you can figure out which one).

I'm pro choice.  Just look at the link between Roe vs. Wade in the 70's and the 15% decline in crime in the mid 90's.  Making abortion legal had a positive affect on th crime rate in this country.  It just took 15-20 years for it to yield results.  However, I'm also 100% for capital punishment.  One has nothing to do with the other.  One group being killed deserves it and the other doesn't.  How can you even compare the two things.

[fuckin crazy]

Here is a fallacy for you:

How can people so concerned life be pro-capital punishment(you can figure out which one).

  How can you even compare the two things.

I was using a fallacious argument; as I clearly noted.

[TAP]

I think conservatives feel that way because this country was built on christian ideas and principals.....so they stick to that hardcore...a perfect example is how poorly Mitt Romney did, when he was by FAR the most conservative candidate running....he lined up with most of the conservatives ideas except for one thing....he was a mormon...and that killed him....if he were a christian he would have wiped the floor with Mccain because Huckabee woudlnt have been taking a good chunk of his votes....

I can accept the role of some Christian ideas in creating this country, but it's also got roots in the Enlightenment, which was largely anti-religion. 

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html

Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

[TAP]

Our open borders, .....factors that will cause our demise.....

I am a fourth generation American

This thread rules 

BUT my family came here legally...

so TAP answer this for me....you have no problem with our open borders? you think its perfectly fine and SAFE for people to be sneaking into this country when we have no idea what their background is...or if they have a criminal past?  you're all good with that?

You asked what strawman meant. That's a pretty excellent example.