GNR Finish CD?

[whiny]

Oh My Choking Soul's dog year
meaning: you've said my post count must have reached to 666 in the year 666(ad) .
A year for you must be like a month for us. 

he ship metaphor has first been mentioned by finck on his website, by the way.

what did robin say?

this robin said: "i trust you may understand. there will most certainly be a time to embrace this new ship. let's first allow it to launch from the pad in all it's glory. i look forward to such a time."

[jarmo]

Normally a crew or passengers will be aware of not only the destination but also the course they are headed and an estimated time of arrival. When the ship goes off course, the captain will update the crew as to the exact nature of the problem, what needs to be done to resolve it and how it will affect the ETA. Its the same with good project management - you have a critical path and if it goes off course you replan and revise your completion date.

Sure.

But there was only one planned arrival date announced. So until there's another one, enjoy the scenery!




You don't know Axl's intentions?

I thought it's been pretty clear. Finish the album and release it as soon as possible.

Maybe it's just me....






/jarmo

[ppbebe]

this robin said: "i trust you may understand. there will most certainly be a time to embrace this new ship. let's first allow it to launch from the pad in all it's glory. i look forward to such a time."

wow thanks! I haven't seen it. In this case, the ship is the band/ the project innit?

[whiny]

this robin said: "i trust you may understand. there will most certainly be a time to embrace this new ship. let's first allow it to launch from the pad in all it's glory. i look forward to such a time."

wow thanks! I haven't seen it. In this case, the ship is the band/ the project innit?

the statement is about the record. you can find it on robins homepage, it's a message for the gnr fans (already some years old); it's under the faq section.

http://robinfinck.com/quest/faq/index.php

[slashsbaconpit]

1. You don't know what you're talking about.  WB was trying to develop a new Superman movie from 1997 forward.  In the end that movie became Superman Returns.  What you're talking about with different scripts and different stories wasn't free.   


2. And on the other side the record label is smart enough to realize GnR is one of the few acts with true staying power, they would rather make money off of multiple future GnR albums, not just one.  So they're not going to be anxious to dump a "substandard" GnR record out there and risk ruining the brand name of one of the most valuable acts on their roster.  I take it you aren't in business.  You would've burned a lot of bridges and you have an extremely shortsighted view of things

1. I didn't say it didn't cost money in development costs. That's what the $40 million was, not preproduction, DEVELOPMENT. Preproduction is when you build sets, get a cast, create a shooting schedule, hire a crew, sew costumes. It was still a stupid movie, and still had a lot more riding on it than CD does. Even though it was a substandard movie (I'm sure executives saw early screenings and were like "We spent $40 million in DEVELOPMENT and $209 million in PRODUCTION and we're going to spend another $100 million promoting THIS!?) , they still RELEASED it to make back the money they had spent, which with world wide box office they just barely did.

2. That's the dumbest thing I've heard. If that were the case, would TSI ever have been released? Look at Metallica. Their last album was shit, the record company still released it so they could move on to the next project. Hell, look at all the established, big name bands who have put out shitty albums. "The business" that you pointed out that I'm not in, is still a business. If you want to stay in business, you don't dump $13 million down a hole, and then when the ability to make some of it back comes along (I.E. the release of the album), you don't then sit on the hole it because the product doesn't tickle you in just the right way.

Unless the album is a complete and total disaster, I just don't buy the idea that the record company is going to sit on it. If the company has it, they are likely developing a promotional plan for it. If they are setting on it, they are too stupid to be in the positions they are in.

Guess what! GNR isn't going to have the sale performance it had 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago. It doesn't matter how good the album is. The fans will buy it, the non fans will not. If it has a catchy single, it may get some cross over, but it's not going to be 1987-93 for GNR ever again. You know why the greatest hits album sold so well? It was a way for non-fans to get ahold of all the GNR songs they liked without purchasing all the albums. Non-fans don't care about Coma, Double Talking Jive or the alternate version of Don't Cry. They just want the songs they heard on the radio.

[Scabbie]

Before you refer 'recording is done' or to some bizarre comment made by the bands spokeswoman well thats fine but we still don't know what Axl's intentions are. Why is that so hard to share with people?

Why is it any of our business until he, and the band, want to tell us?

Manage expecations?
Public Relations?
Keeping the fanbase excited?

We all know there's a project called Chinese Democracy. The gauntlet was thrown down with the 'tentative' date. The band have mentioned it on numerous occasions and they have even played the songs live. Sebastian has ramped it up in the press, a lot of people have been left salivating at the prospect of new music. So its not as if the carrot hasn't been dangled.
 

[jarmo]

Before you refer 'recording is done' or to some bizarre comment made by the bands spokeswoman well thats fine but we still don't know what Axl's intentions are. Why is that so hard to share with people?

Why is it any of our business until he, and the band, want to tell us?

Manage expecations?
Public Relations?
Keeping the fanbase excited?

We all know there's a project called Chinese Democracy. The gauntlet was thrown down with the 'tentative' date. The band have mentioned it on numerous occasions and they have even played the songs live. Sebastian has ramped it up in the press, a lot of people have been left salivating at the prospect of new music. So its not as if the carrot hasn't been dangled.
 

Funny.

The fact that Sebastian has given us some info is now used against GN'R.

So if he hadn't said a thing, it would be the "no info" route.

Now that he has said a few things here and there, it's the "dangling the carrot" route.



How much shit would you be posting if there'd been an update last year saying they hoped to release the album soon?

It'd be "they promised it would be out soon and it's already January 2008!".....



Axl wrote a letter explaining the situation and it was turned against him. Yet you wonder why there's no updates?

Maybe they learned not to say anything until it's set in stone and completely finalized?



/jarmo

[Oh My Choking Soul]

Oh My Choking Soul's dog year
meaning: you've said my post count must have reached to 666 in the year 666(ad) .
A year for you must be like a month for us. 

he ship metaphor has first been mentioned by finck on his website, by the way.

what did robin say?

Haha, got it LOL. Sorry, I'm a little slow.

Also, I have no doubt that mums the word until they have some real news.

[pilferk]

2. That's the dumbest thing I've heard. If that were the case, would TSI ever have been released? Look at Metallica. Their last album was shit, the record company still released it so they could move on to the next project. Hell, look at all the established, big name bands who have put out shitty albums. "The business" that you pointed out that I'm not in, is still a business. If you want to stay in business, you don't dump $13 million down a hole, and then when the ability to make some of it back comes along (I.E. the release of the album), you don't then sit on the hole it because the product doesn't tickle you in just the right way.

Unless the album is a complete and total disaster, I just don't buy the idea that the record company is going to sit on it. If the company has it, they are likely developing a promotional plan for it. If they are setting on it, they are too stupid to be in the positions they are in.

Record execs have a slightly different perspective.

They have a contract for a certain amount of material, measured in albums, from a band.

They weigh the worth of the material turned in vs the worth of the future material the band could produce when deciding to "accept", or sign off, on the albums release.

It doesn't HAVE to be a disaster for a label to pass on it.  It could just be deemed either unmarketable, unprofitable, or not as valuable as future material would be.  The situation with Fiona Apple is a great example.

I'm not saying that's what's happening, FYI.  But it's the perspective that execs use to judge the material....not, necessarily, how good or bad it is.  But how "worthwhile" it is, in terms of the contracted material.

[Scabbie]

Before you refer 'recording is done' or to some bizarre comment made by the bands spokeswoman well thats fine but we still don't know what Axl's intentions are. Why is that so hard to share with people?

Why is it any of our business until he, and the band, want to tell us?

Manage expecations?
Public Relations?
Keeping the fanbase excited?

We all know there's a project called Chinese Democracy. The gauntlet was thrown down with the 'tentative' date. The band have mentioned it on numerous occasions and they have even played the songs live. Sebastian has ramped it up in the press, a lot of people have been left salivating at the prospect of new music. So its not as if the carrot hasn't been dangled.
 

Funny.

The fact that Sebastian has given us some info is now used against GN'R.

So if he hadn't said a thing, it would be the "no info" route.

Now that he has said a few things here and there, it's the "dangling the carrot" route.



How much shit would you be posting if there'd been an update last year saying they hoped to release the album soon?

It'd be "they promised it would be out soon and it's already January 2008!".....



Axl wrote a letter explaining the situation and it was turned against him. Yet you wonder why there's no updates?

Maybe they learned not to say anything until it's set in stone and completely finalized?



/jarmo

Grr. I don't think the majority of people (me included) have posted that much 'shit' about this band. I haven't once personally attacked the band or anyone associated with them, I've attended and throroughly enjoyed the concerts, bought Tommy's album, bought the HTGTH T-Shirt and told my friends how much I like the new music.

The only thing I can see from a person that enjoys GNR immensely is there has been a lot of talk about new music but no official output. For a LONG time. So I don't really see why its so 'bad' to ask 'how are things going'?

Sorry, maybe I am being out of order here - and just so you know I really don't want to disprespect the rules of this board. But if I could ask a few other people just for my own sanity - am I really being out of order by asking for a little more info?


 

[Ben Derhover]

2. That's the dumbest thing I've heard. If that were the case, would TSI ever have been released? Look at Metallica. Their last album was shit, the record company still released it so they could move on to the next project. Hell, look at all the established, big name bands who have put out shitty albums. "The business" that you pointed out that I'm not in, is still a business. If you want to stay in business, you don't dump $13 million down a hole, and then when the ability to make some of it back comes along (I.E. the release of the album), you don't then sit on the hole it because the product doesn't tickle you in just the right way.

Unless the album is a complete and total disaster, I just don't buy the idea that the record company is going to sit on it. If the company has it, they are likely developing a promotional plan for it. If they are setting on it, they are too stupid to be in the positions they are in.

Record execs have a slightly different perspective.

They have a contract for a certain amount of material, measured in albums, from a band.

They weigh the worth of the material turned in vs the worth of the future material the band could produce when deciding to "accept", or sign off, on the albums release.

It doesn't HAVE to be a disaster for a label to pass on it.  It could just be deemed either unmarketable, unprofitable, or not as valuable as future material would be.  The situation with Fiona Apple is a great example.

I'm not saying that's what's happening, FYI.  But it's the perspective that execs use to judge the material....not, necessarily, how good or bad it is.  But how "worthwhile" it is, in terms of the contracted material.

You mean like the band's potential?

[Voodoochild]

It doesn't HAVE to be a disaster for a label to pass on it.  It could just be deemed either unmarketable, unprofitable, or not as valuable as future material would be.  The situation with Fiona Apple is a great example.

If you're talking about being "uncommercial", I agree. But the album was great and it sold very well, even on iTunes back then, proving how Sony was wrong and how good the fans were when they camped with the "free Fiona" thing. Also, the album leaked way before its release, even tho the arrangements went slightly different, and that didn't stop the Extraordinary Machine to be a hit.

But I agree with what you said. IMO, Chinese Democracy may be too artistic to have the mass appeal the old tunes had, but songs like Better shows how they still can catch a lot people with pop-ish heavy songs.

 

[pilferk]

You mean like the band's potential?

More like "potential earnings".

Again, I'm not saying that's what's going on.  Only explaining what the thought process/evaluation process is at the labels executive level.

I can't see, if they pass on CD, that the potential for future earnings would outstrip that pass.  But you never know....

[pilferk]

It doesn't HAVE to be a disaster for a label to pass on it.  It could just be deemed either unmarketable, unprofitable, or not as valuable as future material would be.  The situation with Fiona Apple is a great example.

If you're talking about being "uncommercial", I agree. But the album was great and it sold very well, even on iTunes back then, proving how Sony was wrong and how good the fans were when they camped with the "free Fiona" thing. Also, the album leaked way before its release, even tho the arrangements went slightly different, and that didn't stop the Extraordinary Machine to be a hit.

But I agree with what you said. IMO, Chinese Democracy may be too artistic to have the mass appeal the old tunes had, but songs like Better shows how they still can catch a lot people with pop-ish heavy songs.
 

I'm actually talking about Apple's situation with Machine being a good example of the way record executives evaluate material.

The material was certainly not a "disaster".  The leaks showed that...for both Apple and the supposed material on CD.

But that didn't stop Sony from being unhappy with it (meaning Apple's material) and refusing to release it in that form.

[Ben Derhover]

I don't think Chinese Democracy will be too artistic to sell a lot of copies. I actually think it will sell very well. It just won't get the same amount of popular media coverage GNR's older albums got. The music world has changed since those days. Like, it's less about legendary icons now and more about grounded accessible bands. At least in rock.

[jarmo]

Grr. I don't think the majority of people (me included) have posted that much 'shit' about this band. I haven't once personally attacked the band or anyone associated with them, I've attended and throroughly enjoyed the concerts, bought Tommy's album, bought the HTGTH T-Shirt and told my friends how much I like the new music.

I was talking about certain fans in general, not you personally.

My apologies if you felt targeted.

The only thing I can see from a person that enjoys GNR immensely is there has been a lot of talk about new music but no official output. For a LONG time. So I don't really see why its so 'bad' to ask 'how are things going'?

Wondering how things are going isn't bad in itself, it's just the bitching that comes with it that gets very boring in my opinion.


As I said, I personally still believe that as soon as the plans are finalized and things are sure to happen, we'll get news.




/jarmo

[ppbebe]

The fans will buy it, the non fans will not. If it has a catchy single, it may get some cross over, but it's not going to be 1987-93 for GNR ever again. You know why the greatest hits album sold so well? It was a way for non-fans to get ahold of all the GNR songs they liked without purchasing all the albums. Non-fans don't care about Coma, Double Talking Jive or the alternate version of Don't Cry. They just want the songs they heard on the radio.

They'll buy chinese democracy too. You can't say the recent tour hasn't helped the GH sales.
Those casual fans are still talking about how electric the shows were. Chinese Democracy will win many new fans that are free from the past as well as bringing back the fans from 1987-93.
says a fan since chinese democracy.

Also, I have no doubt that mums the word until they have some real news.

 I wonder from who we hear about the release first. from the band or the label and how?

the statement is about the record. you can find it on robins homepage, it's a message for the gnr fans (already some years old); it's under the faq section.

http://robinfinck.com/quest/faq/index.php

thanks. that reminds me.  Tommy referred to Axl as captain A.

[ben9785]

I always enjoy reading the rumours, speculation and debates around here, but all of that aside, I don't think we will get any more official updates until the release date for the album is confirmed. We don't obviously know what exactly is going on with Axl and the record label, but we just have to assume/hope that the album is completely finished and, business issues aside, we might get it this year..

[slashsbaconpit]

Before you refer 'recording is done' or to some bizarre comment made by the bands spokeswoman well thats fine but we still don't know what Axl's intentions are. Why is that so hard to share with people?

Why is it any of our business until he, and the band, want to tell us?

Manage expecations?
Public Relations?
Keeping the fanbase excited?

We all know there's a project called Chinese Democracy. The gauntlet was thrown down with the 'tentative' date. The band have mentioned it on numerous occasions and they have even played the songs live. Sebastian has ramped it up in the press, a lot of people have been left salivating at the prospect of new music. So its not as if the carrot hasn't been dangled.
 

Funny.

The fact that Sebastian has given us some info is now used against GN'R.
...
Axl wrote a letter explaining the situation and it was turned against him. Yet you wonder why there's no updates?

Maybe they learned not to say anything until it's set in stone and completely finalized?



/jarmo

Ah, the great conspiracy. The only time info given out by Axl or Bach or anyone has been turned against the band is when after a long period of time expires and nothing happens. That's what is making fans mad. The short spurts of activity with vague info saying "It's almost here, it's basically done, it's almost time, I've heard the finished album and it's brilliant ..." and then nothing. It would be one thing if they always chose to be silent about it, but they don't. They preview at random night clubs, they tour under it's bannr, mention it in interviews, set tentative dates, then nothing.

That's why you see so many people frustrated. Axl said they were canceling the last part of their tour to finish up the album, now it's a year later and nothing has happened.
If it was nothing all the time, the criticism would go away. But we're always being teased.

Personally, IF the album really is done, I imagine the record company folks are likely developing the marketing material for it and promotion strategy for it, and not just sitting on it because it's not good enough or commercial enough.

[GNR4L]

Its funny how people say they don't updates us on things well if I remember right and correct me if im wrong when Axl wrote us the open letter he said the following...... 

For much of the time some form or another of legalities have been taking place that really the best way to deal with publicly was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome and especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album

A. BINGO !!!! that's why we don't hear anything



as well as contract negotiations need to be completed and barring any unforeseen complications these things have now been adequately scheduled. Both the band and I along with our record company feel that this record deserves the proper setup and promotion

A. I believe now that the record has been turned and my GUESS as we speak they are currently in negotations with regards as not to the contract but in proper setup and promotion.



It takes approximately 8 weeks for an album to hit the shelves once it has been turned in to the record company

A. those eight weeks probaly will happen this year and everyone will be excited.


So people its been a rough road but it should make you feel good that you support this band and for the non supporters who say THE ALBUM WILL NEVER COME OUT !!! you can say well I told you so.