GNR Finish CD?

[uzisuicide2002]

greedy execs have short memories

Here's a reminder:

Top Pop Catalog
#1 This Week

Guns N' Roses
Greatest Hits
Geffen   

Peak 1
Wks On 200

   
Chart Issue Date: 2008-02-02


GH is selling more copies than  Eagles' "The Very Best Of",  Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers' "Greatest Hits" and Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon"





/jarmo

To bad that album sucks for a greatest hits. Need more songs. and less covers. But we all ready know that. If there was input in to that album it would make the band look even better. At the sametime its still nice to have gn'r at #1

[Ali]

The fact that executives basically kept telling him that it wasn't good enough yet kind of worries me.  I think we all just assume that this album is gonna be amazing because Axl is a perfectionist and it's taken so long, but maybe the long time is a result of mediocre material.  I hope this isn't the case, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.  I really enjoy most of the new songs, not sure if it's the novelty of new gnr songs or if it's that the songs really are great though.  I will say this though, the new songs didn't really blow anyone away at the concerts I went to in 2006. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

It might not have been that the songs weren't good enough, but more that they weren't commercially accessible enough.  There's a distinct difference.  "Civil War" and "Estranged" are great songs, but are not necessarily commercially accessible because of their structure and length.

Also, I know plenty of people that have been very impressed by "Madagascar", "Catcher In The Rye", "The Blues" and "Better".

Ali

[madagas]

I am with Ali on this one. All parties are to blame for the $13 million being spent on the album. If the label is stupid enough to lay out that kind of money for a rock record, then they get what's coming to them. As far as the quality of songs, all record companies will review a work in progress from time to time and give their opinion. IT HAPPENS WITH EVERY BAND! So, the Axl comment is normal and it doesn't mean the album was rejected. Plus, that is a comment from 7 years ago!

[jarmo]

As far as the quality of songs, all record companies will review a work in progress from time to time and give their opinion. IT HAPPENS WITH EVERY BAND! So, the Axl comment is normal and it doesn't mean the album was rejected. Plus, that is a comment from 7 years ago!

Isn't that one of the jobs the A&R guy does?




/jarmo

[Feel_The_Burn]

greedy execs have short memories

Here's a reminder:

Top Pop Catalog
#1 This Week

Guns N' Roses
Greatest Hits
Geffen   

Peak 1
Wks On 200

   
Chart Issue Date: 2008-02-02


GH is selling more copies than  Eagles' "The Very Best Of",  Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers' "Greatest Hits" and Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon"





/jarmo

To bad that album sucks for a greatest hits. Need more songs. and less covers. But we all ready know that. If there was input in to that album it would make the band look even better. At the sametime its still nice to have gn'r at #1

Proving Jarmo's point further..... He is saying GN'R have selling power , you just said it needed more songs and less covers and wasn't great yet it still outsold all those other records , now imagine a GN'R record that have all originals.....

[madagas]

Jarmo, I think so.....Axl also talked about the major change in personnel with Geffen during those years 97-01. He went from dealing with people who intimately knew him to dealing with people who didn't know him at all.

[Ali]

I am with Ali on this one. All parties are to blame for the $13 million being spent on the album. If the label is stupid enough to lay out that kind of money for a rock record, then they get what's coming to them. As far as the quality of songs, all record companies will review a work in progress from time to time and give their opinion. IT HAPPENS WITH EVERY BAND! So, the Axl comment is normal and it doesn't mean the album was rejected. Plus, that is a comment from 7 years ago!

Right on.  By telling Axl either he needed more songs or more commercially accessible songs, or just different songs for whatever reason, the record company was in effect instructing Axl and the band to spend more and more money recording.  Therefore, they played a role, even if it was a small one, in the total cost of the record being what it is.  But, the more important and relevant point at this time is that all that is done and cannot be undone at this time.  The label, if they are holding a grudge, aren't doing themselves any favors with regards to recouping their investment.

Everyone is to blame to some extent here and therefore everyone should work together to try and make the best of the situation as it is.

Ali

[Feel_The_Burn]

I am with Ali on this one. All parties are to blame for the $13 million being spent on the album. If the label is stupid enough to lay out that kind of money for a rock record, then they get what's coming to them. As far as the quality of songs, all record companies will review a work in progress from time to time and give their opinion. IT HAPPENS WITH EVERY BAND! So, the Axl comment is normal and it doesn't mean the album was rejected. Plus, that is a comment from 7 years ago!

Right on.  By telling Axl either he needed more songs or more commercially accessible songs, or just different songs for whatever reason, the record company was in effect instructing Axl and the band to spend more and more money recording.  Therefore, they played a role, even if it was a small one, in the total cost of the record being what it is.  But, the more important and relevant point at this time is that all that is done and cannot be undone at this time.  The label, if they are holding a grudge, aren't doing themselves any favors with regards to recouping their investment.

Everyone is to blame to some extent here and therefore everyone should work together to try and make the best of the situation as it is.

Ali

If only the music industry was the simple lol

[Ali]

Jarmo, I think so....but Axl also talked about the major change in personnel with Geffen during those years 97-01. He went from dealing with people who intimately knew him to dealing with people who didn't know him at all. That has to cause issues along with the changing musicians and having to start over.

It takes time to build trust in any relationship, professional or otherwise.  That kind of trust I would think would be essential to the working relationship between an artist and those who are responsible for promoting and distributing his or her art.

Ali

[norway]

The core-operation to record-industry was always to distibrute music.
I can see it collapse to becoming the music-buisness, one administration marketing music instead of a co-operation between many instances.

It might not have been that the songs weren't good enough, but more that they weren't commercially accessible enough.

The company obviously have intrest and it's nothing new with conflict of intrest between artists and the companies.

People focus so much on how much money has been invested into the forthcoming albums, but forget how much income has been generated from previous albums.

Any names been set on the other forthcoming albums you speak of? Swedish Dictatorship?

[novrain91]

I will say this though, the new songs didn't really blow anyone away at the concerts I went to in 2006. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah, people weren't all blowing away for Estranged when it was first played on RIR2. And remember, that was a band most known by the AFD by that time, so the epic songs were not on their front yet.

Yeah I agree that sometimes new songs don't get a big reaction live right way, but we're talking about an unusual case of songs that have been in the works for 10+ (maybe not all of the songs, but the album anyways) years, and they're supposed be epic and great.  Or atleast that's what we all hope..  As far as record executives always questioning the commercial viability of songs, I agree, but the case of chinese democracy seems to be a little different.  With all of the stories about 1 million dollor bonuses,etc to turn the album in, doesn't it seem like the record company just wants to release the damn album?  If that's the case then the rejection of the songs and advice to go back and make better material becomes a problematic sign.  Then you have a record company that desperately wants to release an album at a great cost to them, but they then still reject the material when it's turned in becuase of the lack of quality.  Doesn't this seem like a troubling sign to anyone else?

[Ali]

I will say this though, the new songs didn't really blow anyone away at the concerts I went to in 2006. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah, people weren't all blowing away for Estranged when it was first played on RIR2. And remember, that was a band most known by the AFD by that time, so the epic songs were not on their front yet.

Yeah I agree that sometimes new songs don't get a big reaction live right way, but we're talking about an unusual case of songs that have been in the works for 10+ (maybe not all of the songs, but the album anyways) years, and they're supposed be epic and great.  Or atleast that's what we all hope..  As far as record executives always questioning the commercial viability of songs, I agree, but the case of chinese democracy seems to be a little different.  With all of the stories about 1 million dollor bonuses,etc to turn the album in, doesn't it seem like the record company just wants to release the damn album?  If that's the case then the rejection of the songs and advice to go back and make better material becomes a problematic sign.  Then you have a record company that desperately wants to release an album at a great cost to them, but they then still reject the material when it's turned in becuase of the lack of quality.  Doesn't this seem like a troubling sign to anyone else?

I see what you are saying, but it seems like are you still assuming it's a lack of quality issue as opposed to a commercially accessible/radio-friendly issue.  It may be that because many of the songs, while they are good, don't have a traditional sing-along chorus that would make them more likely to be hits on radio.  In my estimation, "Catcher In The Rye", "Madagascar", "The Blues" and "There Was A Time" are all good songs, but none of them has that sing-along chorus that is a staple of most radio hits.

Ali

[mrbucketfoot]

Yeah, people weren't all blowing away for Estranged when it was first played on RIR2. And remember, that was a band most known by the AFD by that time, so the epic songs were not on their front yet.

QFE.

Also, a lot of people both professional and not have really liked the new songs. Madagascar was hailed as a 'gorgeous piece', reminiscent of mid-period Beatles. Better was described as a 'triumphant composition with fuming guitars and perfectly textured harmonies.' The song Chinese Democracy was compared to the heaviest "Use Your Illusion" moments and described as a fist-pumping 'turbo-charged adrenaline rush.'

While about the performance of the band: 'judging from Los Angeles' response to "Chinese Democracy," another era of Guns N' Roses domination is imminent.'

Everyone may not agree on every track on the album but people are definitely digging the new tunes. People are just jaded. When the album finally does come out people will totally be into it methinks.

[novrain91]

Yeah, people weren't all blowing away for Estranged when it was first played on RIR2. And remember, that was a band most known by the AFD by that time, so the epic songs were not on their front yet.

QFE.

Also, a lot of people both professional and not have really liked the new songs. Madagascar was hailed as a 'gorgeous piece', reminiscent of mid-period Beatles. Better was described as a 'triumphant composition with fuming guitars and perfectly textured harmonies.' The song Chinese Democracy was compared to the heaviest "Use Your Illusion" moments and described as a fist-pumping 'turbo-charged adrenaline rush.'

While about the performance of the band: 'judging from Los Angeles' response to "Chinese Democracy," another era of Guns N' Roses domination is imminent.'

Everyone may not agree on every track on the album but people are definitely digging the new tunes. People are just jaded. When the album finally does come out people will totally be into it methinks.

Yeah, I agree.  I think most of the new songs kick ass, and I can't wait to hear the studio versions.  The only one that I think is lacking a little is IRS it's not bad, but it doesn't seem in the same league as the others.  Plus, I think the title should be changed.  And maybe CITR (that's probably due to the demo quality though).  I'm just hoping all of our assumptions are true, and the "Big Guns" haven't leaked yet!  If you have Better, The  Blues, TWAT, Madagascar, and Chinese Democracy (although this song doesn't really fit with its simple and ambiguous narrative), that's a pretty kickass start.  Add on 5-7 "Big Guns" and the album will be quite special, and not just because it took so long to be released!!

[madagas]

I don't think we have any idea what is going to ultimately make it on the album.....a few of the leaks will,  but I don't think all.

[Voodoochild]

I will say this though, the new songs didn't really blow anyone away at the concerts I went to in 2006. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah, people weren't all blowing away for Estranged when it was first played on RIR2. And remember, that was a band most known by the AFD by that time, so the epic songs were not on their front yet.

Yeah I agree that sometimes new songs don't get a big reaction live right way, but we're talking about an unusual case of songs that have been in the works for 10+ (maybe not all of the songs, but the album anyways) years, and they're supposed be epic and great.  Or atleast that's what we all hope.. 

Wasn't Estranged epic and great?

Plus, we're talking about a new band with new songs. GNR is not on top of popularity anymore. The reaction of the regular crowd would be way more cold, but the reaction of the fans who knows the new songs are always good.

As far as record executives always questioning the commercial viability of songs, I agree, but the case of chinese democracy seems to be a little different.  With all of the stories about 1 million dollor bonuses,etc to turn the album in, doesn't it seem like the record company just wants to release the damn album?  If that's the case then the rejection of the songs and advice to go back and make better material becomes a problematic sign.  Then you have a record company that desperately wants to release an album at a great cost to them, but they then still reject the material when it's turned in becuase of the lack of quality.  Doesn't this seem like a troubling sign to anyone else?

No, it was 9 years ago. We know a lot of songs from this era and, IMO, they are all awesome.

If it was the case again, they wouldn't even hand the finished record mixed.

[Razor]

It's all about the he said she said bullshit.    Speculation speculation speculation.   So that's the latest rumour the label has the record huh....Hopefully thats the truth but  none of us know anything further until we hear from king dick AXL himself.  That said ive been waiting for more than a long long time for this alblum and at this point whats another 13 years. Soooooooooooooooo kidding

[misterID]

Hey madagas! 

The thing that gets me in this conversation is that people are still trying to level blame at Universal. Y'all would be going crazy if they didn't give Axl a blank check to be an artist and to create the way he wants to. But according to this crowd, since they gave him everything he wanted, it was their fault for supporting him? That's ridiculous.

Their cutting him off in 2004 and releasing the greatest hits is a huge statement that they've had it with his antics. And it still takes him three years after that to finish a supposedly finished album?

He has recieved all the support in the world and the label has done everything in their power to get this thing released short of taking him to court. If they cut off funding, they had every right to, just like they have every right NOT to release Chinese Democracy.

May I remind you that GNR has always had a revolving door of musicians. Hell, Gilby was hired right before the UYI tour. And with Buckethead staying on the album, his departure should not have effected the release of the abum at all. In fact, Axl said it would speed things up. Brain was replaced on the spot, and the only reason, according to Del James, that it took so long to get Bumblefoot was that Axl was still trying up to a week before the first new york gig with bumblefoot to get Buckethead back. So that arguement carries no weight at all.

As for the painting my house thing not fitting. Here, you pay someone to do something, THEY SHOULD DO IT and fullfill their obligation. It's very simple. He has made it difficult on himself. We're not reinventing the wheel here.

As for the residules from past GNR albums; the label spends and loses a great deal of money each year. They can't afford a huge bomb. They pumped money into this project to make a profit, and in the meantime they have caught nothing but grief from their artist and the media. They deserve to make money on this guys. Shit, I love Axl, but call a spade a spade for once. And after all this I'm positive Universal will still do all they can to make Chinese Democracy a success. But it is also their right not to do anything with it, and that's all on Axl.

[Ali]

Hey madagas! 

The thing that gets me in this conversation is that people are still trying to level blame at Universal. Y'all would be going crazy if they didn't give Axl a blank check to be an artist and to create the way he wants to. But according to this crowd, since they gave him everything he wanted, it was their fault for supporting him? That's ridiculous.

Their cutting him off in 2004 and releasing the greatest hits is a huge statement that they've had it with his antics. And it still takes him three years after that to finish a supposedly finished album?

He has recieved all the support in the world and the label has done everything in their power to get this thing released short of taking him to court. If they cut off funding, they had every right to, just like they have every right NOT to release Chinese Democracy.

May I remind you that GNR has always had a revolving door of musicians. Hell, Gilby was hired right before the UYI tour. And with Buckethead staying on the album, his departure should not have effected the release of the abum at all. In fact, Axl said it would speed things up. Brain was replaced on the spot, and the only reason, according to Del James, that it took so long to get Bumblefoot was that Axl was still trying up to a week before the first new york gig with bumblefoot to get Buckethead back. So that arguement carries no weight at all.

As for the painting my house thing not fitting. Here, you pay someone to do something, THEY SHOULD DO IT and fullfill their obligation. It's very simple. He has made it difficult on himself. We're not reinventing the wheel here.

As for the residules from past GNR albums; the label spends and loses a great deal of money each year. They can't afford a huge bomb. They pumped money into this project to make a profit, and in the meantime they have caught nothing but grief from their artist and the media. They deserve to make money on this guys. Shit, I love Axl, but call a spade a spade for once. And after all this I'm positive Universal will still do all they can to make Chinese Democracy a success. But it is also their right not to do anything with it, and that's all on Axl.

No, no, no.  If they said to Axl, "you need to go back and record more songs" for whatever reason, they were basically instructing him to spend some more of their money.  Anyway, $13 million is too much to spend on recording an album.  They should have cut him off sooner.  There is no way it should have taken the $13 million barrier being crossed before they saw the situation was out of hand.  They were enablers in this situation by allowing it to get so far out of control.

There is a world of difference between creating a work of art and painting a house.  One can be easily put on an estimated time table, the other cannot.  And if you saw what the people painting your house were doing and said "I don't like this, I changed my mind on what I want, start over", YOU would be contributing to the delay in getting the job done.  That doesn't mean that the person doing the job is relieved of their responsibility to do it.  It just means that by either not being clear about what you wanted in the first place or by changing your mind mid-stream, you are playing in role in what is transpiring.

Therein lies the problem with the analogy.  You can tell someone to paint a house blue, but you cannot tell an artist what to create or else it won't be genuine and will ring hollow and false to all those listening to the music.

Everyone played a role in the situation getting to where it is now, not necessarily to the same extent, but the only way to make the best of it is for everyone to work together.  It's about getting the record out.  That's what's best for all involved.

Ali

[bodine]

Eddie Trunk host of "Friday Night Rocks" in NYC on Q104.3 (NYC, NJ, LI, CT) has updated his blog on Guns N' Roses, about the now infamous Chinese Democracy album. Eddie Trunk has posted the following on his blog:

"I hear the new G&R CD is actually done, but the delay in release is not the bands issues but the label. There is so much money tied up in this record that in today?s business it will be virtually impossible to be profitable, meaning the label might want to sell it off but can not find a buyer since nobody buys CDs anymore. Problem might not be Axl (rose) this time around and might keep this CD in limbo for more years to come. Hopefully it gets resolved."


"I?ve heard rumors that maybe the album was finished, and it was actually handed-in, I guess it could be true. I do find it believable that Geffen or Interscope is the one holding back the album. There have been artists on that label whom have had their albums pushed back and delayed for odd reasons. Resulting in many artists leaving the label, so this is nothing new."

Geffen Records or a representative were not immediately available to comment on the report.

People focus so much on how much money has been invested into the forthcoming albums, but forget how much income has been generated from previous albums.

True, but one can only hang his hat on past achievement for so long.  Eventually he was going to have to prove himself all over again.  Sure, Greatest Hits has sold great, but that's all music that came out at another time with the help of another group of people.  That's no guarantee that any of the new material or new band will be accepted en-masse.  That's not to say it won't, either - I certainly hope it will be.  But in the business context what's been spent is more relevant than past achievement.