GNR Finish CD?

[Bandita]

STOP PRESS! OLD GNR ALBUMS STILL MAKE MONEY! Jesus.

I believe Jarmo was just pointing out that GNR still has great selling power despite little to no promotion of the Greatest Hits. They've managed to stay week to week on the Top Charts and I think it's great that we're not the only people out there still in love with the band. If/when CD hits mainstream, I believe it'll sell greatly.

People aren't in love with this version of Guns , I hate to be the asshole , but people are still in love with Guns a la Axl and Slash. Everyone I have met , outside of this board,  either thinks Axl is an idiot and new GNR is a sad excuse for a band or Wants the old line up back. The masses don't look at this GNR as GNR , to a lot a lot of people it is still Axl and Slash.....

thats a load of bullshit.   most of the people who would say such garbage probably haven't even seen the band the way it is today and don't have enough knowledge to make a real judgement.     

Besides, Guns is Guns.   Its still Guns N' Roses and Axl, and the name Guns N' Roses do have a lot of love.

Whats a load of bullshit , their opinion or that I said a lot of people think that? I agree most people who talk shit haven't seen the band and don't fully know GNR ( considering they think its Axl and Slash lol ) but thats what a lot of people think.

Guns Isn't Guns to lots of people , I'm not trying to be the douche but I haven't meant many people who think that outside this board.

This isn't really the thread for this argument but the only way to introduce this band to the masses obviously is to release the album.  GNR now is a band full of hugely talented people who obviously enjoy playing together and I think once they can actually get this album out some who may have been skeptical can realize this is the band now and stop harping on the past.

[Feel_The_Burn]

STOP PRESS! OLD GNR ALBUMS STILL MAKE MONEY! Jesus.

I believe Jarmo was just pointing out that GNR still has great selling power despite little to no promotion of the Greatest Hits. They've managed to stay week to week on the Top Charts and I think it's great that we're not the only people out there still in love with the band. If/when CD hits mainstream, I believe it'll sell greatly.

People aren't in love with this version of Guns , I hate to be the asshole , but people are still in love with Guns a la Axl and Slash. Everyone I have met , outside of this board,  either thinks Axl is an idiot and new GNR is a sad excuse for a band or Wants the old line up back. The masses don't look at this GNR as GNR , to a lot a lot of people it is still Axl and Slash.....

thats a load of bullshit.   most of the people who would say such garbage probably haven't even seen the band the way it is today and don't have enough knowledge to make a real judgement.     

Besides, Guns is Guns.   Its still Guns N' Roses and Axl, and the name Guns N' Roses do have a lot of love.

Whats a load of bullshit , their opinion or that I said a lot of people think that? I agree most people who talk shit haven't seen the band and don't fully know GNR ( considering they think its Axl and Slash lol ) but thats what a lot of people think.

Guns Isn't Guns to lots of people , I'm not trying to be the douche but I haven't meant many people who think that outside this board.

This isn't really the thread for this argument but the only way to introduce this band to the masses obviously is to release the album.  GNR now is a band full of hugely talented people who obviously enjoy playing together and I think once they can actually get this album out some who may have been skeptical can realize this is the band now and stop harping on the past.

  But as of now its not out....

[misterID]

GNR's catalog has probably been the thing that has kept them on the label, but you also have to understand there has been a long line of execs at Universal who have come and gone who have tried to help Axl complete this album and they've had to put up with a whole bunch of bullshit.

Even though people defend Axl like he was their girlfriend around here, there has been a long trail of people at the label who've taken a bunch of bullshit from him. And it's really hard for me to believe that he has been the persecuted victim over the last decade in trying to make this album, and the big bad label has been throwing obstacles in front of him at every turn. No other label would have given him this much time and money to finish an album. Remember when they were going to give him a million dollar bonus to just finish it, and another million to bring it in on a specific date? Yeah, what a bunch of assholes.

And to say people shouldn't concentrate on the money pumped into this album... Um, it's easy to say that when its not your money. It doesn't matter how much their old albums bring in, when they pay for a specific PRODUCT they want to recoup that money. The music labels aren't in the business of spending any ammount of money on an artist to make a NEW product and being okay that they make nothing on their investment, especially in this age of music. Just being satisfied with the monthy royaltee check isn't going to make it okay... Ask Mariah Carey and Michael Jackson that, who have all been booted off their labels when their hugely over budgeted albums bomb while past albums still bring in more money than GNR.

if I paid someone, put them under contract, paid for all their supplies and expenses, to paint my house and it takes them ten years to do it, I'd be pretty pissed too.

[Feel_The_Burn]

GNR's catalog has probably been the thing that has kept them on the label, but you also have to understand there has been a long line of execs at Universal who have come and gone who have tried to help Axl complete this album and they've had to put up with a whole bunch of bullshit.

Even though people defend Axl like he was their girlfriend around here, there has been a long trail of people at the label who've taken a bunch of bullshit from him. And it's really hard for me to believe that he has been the persecuted victim over the last decade in trying to make this album, and the big bad label has been throwing obstacles in front of him at every turn. No other label would have given him this much time and money to finish an album. Remember when they were going to give him a million dollar bonus to just finish it, and another million to bring it in on a specific date? Yeah, what a bunch of assholes.

And to say people shouldn't concentrate on the money pumped into this album... Um, it's easy to say that when its not your money. It doesn't matter how much their old albums bring in, when they pay for a specific PRODUCT they want to recoup that money. The music labels aren't in the business of spending any ammount of money on an artist to make a NEW product and being okay that they make nothing on their investment, especially in this age of music. Just being satisfied with the monthy royaltee check isn't going to make it okay... Ask Mariah Carey and Michael Jackson that, who have all been booted off their labels when their hugely over budgeted albums bomb while past albums still bring in more money than GNR, just because of the huge costs to make and market their album.

if I paid someone, put them under contract, paid for all their supplies and expenses, to paint my house and it takes them ten years to do it, I'd be pretty pissed too.

 

[Bandita]

Good points mister but I still think wasting more time looking for the perfect marketing strategy isn't going to help in the long run either or whatever the reasoning is for the holdup at this point.  I mean no one really knows the exact reason-we know it's being held up but still no official word from the record company as to why.  I don't think anyone is saying that Axl is innocent in the holdup in the past just that he most likely isn't in control of the holdup right now. 

[bodine]

This is probably the strangest-ever music story to follow . . .  Really kinda wish I could've stopped paying attention a long time ago .  But I'm hooked 

[misterID]

Good points mister but I still think wasting more time looking for the perfect marketing strategy isn't going to help in the long run either or whatever the reasoning is for the holdup at this point.  I mean no one really knows the exact reason-we know it's being held up but still no official word from the record company as to why.  I don't think anyone is saying that Axl is innocent in the holdup in the past just that he most likely isn't in control of the holdup right now. 

I agree, I don't think for a second Axl is holding this up. But I'm sure the label is trying to figure out how and who exactly to market this mega-monster to. It doesn't fit in any genre, it doesn't fit in with what the kids are listening to, or even what older fans are listening to, either. If its a bomb they're also going to look stupid. 

I still believe that they're waiting for summer to release it.

And if they want to sit on it, unfortunately, they can. I don't think they're going to purposely eat it just because they're being mean to Axl. He's the one who's pushed them into a corner here, so a lot of it is his fault. And I'm also certain that Chinese Democracy is far from the top of their list of priorities, too.  This is a thorny project, that's for sure.

[GNR4L]

But you also gotta recongize that why it took so long was finding the right members for the band.  People where leaving left in right due to not wanting to tour and being in the band just to make a name for themselves.   Guns N' Roses r finally a well oiled machine and have been touring the last two years so now Axl is hard at work getting this album out and it will come out !!!!! think about it Axl  doesn't wanna get a group of guys that r lousy musicans and don't fit the image of the band that's why it took so long.  People wanna say well Axl took this long and that well what the hell do we know !!!! about the situation we don't I want the album out as much as anybody else does but it takes time.  I can honestly say we will see the album shortly I believe that and if your not down with that then got back in your time machine and relive the past cause Im ready for the present.

[misterID]

Here's a little thing, I think an artist should go about making art their way. But he's been putting the finishing touches on the album for at least 7 years, and from that time, three albums has turned into four albums for Chinese Democracy. So I doubt he has been working on finishing the one, singular album for those seven years. Which, like it or not, was his responsibility to the label to do.

He said himself in 2002 that it was time to "wrap the bitch up" and stop tinkering with it. But, he is an artist, and he can create the way he likes. But right now it looks like he's paying the consequences for his method.

[bolton]

Here's a little thing, I think an artist should go about making art their way. But he's been putting the finishing touches on the album for at least 7 years, and from that time, three albums has turned into four albums for Chinese Democracy. So I doubt he has been working on finishing the one, singular album for those seven years. Which, like it or not, was his responsibility to the label to do.

He said himself in 2002 that it was time to "wrap the bitch up" and stop tinkering with it. But, he is an artist, and he can create the way he likes. But right now it looks like he's paying the consequences for his method.

I don't believe in anything.

[madagas]

Mister ID, long time no argue! Just a couple of points.....
1. The Gnr catalog outsold Mariah Carey and Michael Jackson in the US for 2007. Go look it up at Billboard or refer to an earlier thread I made. They actually outsold the Beatles too....
http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/charts/yearendcharts/chart_display.jsp?f=Top+Pop+Catalog+Artists&g=Year-end+Top+Artists
2. Of course, the label wants to recoup for Chinese and Axl is certainly no saint. But, as I have stated, in the end, labels want to recoup for the overall recording agreement, not just one record. We still have no idea what is going to come out of the Chinese Democracy recording sessions anyway. Did every Rolling Stones record recoup for the label? I highly doubt it but you take the good with the bad and look at the big picture.
3. The label paid Axl back for his sins by cutting off funding in early 2004 and then releasing a GH album AGAINST his wishes.

[Jaakko]

3. The label paid Axl back for his sins by cutting off funding in early 2004 and then releasing a GH album AGAINST his wishes.

If this ever was a Daffy Duck-cartoon ("So you realise this means war !")...

I'd like to believe that they are even now. We can only hope that this is the year to leave speculations behind !

[faldor]

Here's a little thing, I think an artist should go about making art their way. But he's been putting the finishing touches on the album for at least 7 years, and from that time, three albums has turned into four albums for Chinese Democracy. So I doubt he has been working on finishing the one, singular album for those seven years. Which, like it or not, was his responsibility to the label to do.

He said himself in 2002 that it was time to "wrap the bitch up" and stop tinkering with it. But, he is an artist, and he can create the way he likes. But right now it looks like he's paying the consequences for his method.

If you read the previous post by GNR4L, he explains things quite well.  Sure AXL has been working on and putting the finishing touches on the album for 7 years.  But in that time guitarists and drummers have come in and out the door.  Should Axl have released the album from 2003-2006 when there was no replacement for Buckethead yet?  Doesn't seem to make any sense to me.  Seems to me, this current lineup came together in the summer/fall of 2006 after Brain left.  Seeing as how the album was supposedly finished near the end of 2007, it took about 15 months for the current incarnation of GNR to wrap this thing up.  Doesn't seem too crazy to me.

Bottom line, I don't think anyone should be looking to place blame for any of this.  Everyone played a part, Axl, former and current members, the record company.  Blaming people isn't gonna get the album here any quicker, so what's the point?

[LunsJail]

Here's what I can't understand:

At what point did the label realize they would have a hard time recouping their investment on this?  When they spent that 13 millionth dollar? How is this just becoming an issue now that the record is finished? Supposedly they cut off funding in 2004.  The record business wasn't exactly on the uphill swing then either. They should have seen this coming a long time ago.  They played their part in creating this monster and now they just need to deal with it.  Meanwhile, they're not recouping shit by having the thing sit on ice.  But like someone else said, execs have come and gone and who even knows who is running the show at this point. 

[Oh My Choking Soul]

What I don't get is that GN'R is an icon, new band or not. GN'R CD's will sell millions regardless. Axl said there's a ton of new material. Get this one out ala Radiohead, then the next, then the next within 12 months. By disk three release some sort of uber $100 box set containing all three disks, throw in some advertising to make Axl happy and they'll have their money back with plenty to boot.

[Ali]

GNR's catalog has probably been the thing that has kept them on the label, but you also have to understand there has been a long line of execs at Universal who have come and gone who have tried to help Axl complete this album and they've had to put up with a whole bunch of bullshit.

Even though people defend Axl like he was their girlfriend around here, there has been a long trail of people at the label who've taken a bunch of bullshit from him. And it's really hard for me to believe that he has been the persecuted victim over the last decade in trying to make this album, and the big bad label has been throwing obstacles in front of him at every turn. No other label would have given him this much time and money to finish an album. Remember when they were going to give him a million dollar bonus to just finish it, and another million to bring it in on a specific date? Yeah, what a bunch of assholes.

And to say people shouldn't concentrate on the money pumped into this album... Um, it's easy to say that when its not your money. It doesn't matter how much their old albums bring in, when they pay for a specific PRODUCT they want to recoup that money. The music labels aren't in the business of spending any ammount of money on an artist to make a NEW product and being okay that they make nothing on their investment, especially in this age of music. Just being satisfied with the monthy royaltee check isn't going to make it okay... Ask Mariah Carey and Michael Jackson that, who have all been booted off their labels when their hugely over budgeted albums bomb while past albums still bring in more money than GNR.

if I paid someone, put them under contract, paid for all their supplies and expenses, to paint my house and it takes them ten years to do it, I'd be pretty pissed too.

Sure, there is no persecuted victim here.  But, everyone, including the label has played a role in this situation getting out of hand.  Did it really take the $13 million barrier being crossed before they realized that the situation was out of hand?  They could have cut off funding sooner and kept this a $7 million situation instead of a $13 million situation.  What about the fact that Axl said there were times they thought they had the right collection of songs and the people at the label didn't agree?  People in the record company had many opinions and they wanted to make the best possible record. Every time that we thought that we had the correct songs, then somebody thought that we could make it better. We started over, we continued adding songs, continued recording and recording.  from an interview on Jan. 22, 2001.

Sure, it was generous of them to offer bonuses to finish the record.  But, what's more important, getting the record done or getting it done right?  If the artist isn't happy with the record and it is released anyway, who is that going to benefit?  The artist may be less inclined to promote the record, or at least promote it in an enthusiastic way, so that's not going to help record sales and consequently the label.

While I understand your point, the house-painting analogy doesn't seem completely applicable to me.  This situation is far more complex than simply painting a house.  Regardless, laying blame for what has already transpired won't help the record get out or the label to recoup their money.  It's a messy situation, but what's done is done and it's time to do the best with the situation as it is.

Ali

[ppbebe]

the house-painting analogy doesn't seem completely applicable to me.

Altho i phone is tempting I'd wait a while for a number of improvements. 
It's not one of necessities of life when you have your cellphone, i pod, notepc etc already.
I'd rather wait to get the better/best version.

[novrain91]

The fact that executives basically kept telling him that it wasn't good enough yet kind of worries me.  I think we all just assume that this album is gonna be amazing because Axl is a perfectionist and it's taken so long, but maybe the long time is a result of mediocre material.  I hope this isn't the case, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.  I really enjoy most of the new songs, not sure if it's the novelty of new gnr songs or if it's that the songs really are great though.  I will say this though, the new songs didn't really blow anyone away at the concerts I went to in 2006. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[ppbebe]

I wouldn't worry about that because it's from an interview on Jan. 22, 2001.
It could be the situation before BH and brain joined.

[Voodoochild]

I will say this though, the new songs didn't really blow anyone away at the concerts I went to in 2006. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah, people weren't all blowing away for Estranged when it was first played on RIR2. And remember, that was a band most known by the AFD by that time, so the epic songs were not on their front yet.