GNR Finish CD?

[GNRreunioneventually]

he wants his work out there as much as the fans so why not?

Wow...? ?? ?no offense but,

If he wanted his work out there as much as the fans do we'd have had 2 or 3 new GNR albums at least by now after all this fucking time.

well isn't that what we're told is that Axl wants to get CD out as much as the fans do?


Yeah so just "wow" yourself

[downzy56]

I don't think there will every be another official forum again.  I can remember years ago on gnronline.com the official forum.  It didn't last very long as I recall because of all the rumors and bullshit that people spread (Imagine that).  It's too much trouble and I think Axl himself would completely object the idea.

I think it's closure actually had something to do with Axl's personal phone number being posted on the forum. 

[olschoolboro]

Yes, that probably was the deciding factor, and why he has expressed a disgust in the internet.

[Lord Kayoss]

If you're a record company in 2008, you want to make money without spending any.

Why do you think they love to release "Best Of" albums after "Best Of" album?

/jarmo

Precisely why the GN'R Greatest Hits CD is the only disc in the catalog I don't own.

[TrueRock&Roll]

Did anyone hear Eddie Trunk talking about it just now.  Nothing new obviously, but just that the speculation is that Axl turned the album in, but the record company doesn't know how or what to do with it to make all that money back

[mrbucketfoot]

Did anyone hear Eddie Trunk talking about it just now.? Nothing new obviously, but just that the speculation is that Axl turned the album in, but the record company doesn't know how or what to do with it to make all that money back

Where can you listen/do you have it recorded?

[gunns1]

Did anyone hear Eddie Trunk talking about it just now.? Nothing new obviously, but just that the speculation is that Axl turned the album in, but the record company doesn't know how or what to do with it to make all that money back

Where can you listen/do you have it recorded?

check eddies site,
He usually posts everything that happens in the gnr world/talked about gnr on his site/blog...

Its nothing new anyways, we all know by now the records be handed in...

And i THINK why axl hasnt said anything in regards to news about chinese democracy and the like,
is because of the situation he is in, he cant say anything like "I handed it in , now its up to the record company"
cause he then puts the record company in hot water...

Its all hush - hush, until some solid non circumstantial evidence comes to light , like , I dont know,

A RELEASE DATE!!!!!
WITHOUT THE WORD TENTATIVE

[mrbucketfoot]

One could only hope. I wish my area would pick up Trunk's show. It's good stuff.

Here's his post:
"I hear the new G&R CD is actually done, but the delay in release is not the bands issues but the label. There is so much money tied up in this record that in todays business it will be virtually impossible to be profitable, meaning the label might want to sell it off but can not find a buyer since nobody buys CDs anymore. Problem might not be Axl this time around and might keep this CD in limbo for more years to come. Hopefully it gets resolved."

Source: http://www.eddietrunk.com/blog.php

If this is the situation I think it's pretty shitty. To me it's pretty simple. Release CD, make money. Go on tour, make money. Release #2, make money. So on. I think Eddie is really off base. If "other" bands can sell 4 million, GNR and a to-be awesome album like Chinese can do that easy.

[Jaakko]

Problem might not be Axl this time around and might keep this CD in limbo for more years to come. Hopefully it gets resolved."[/i]

Source: http://www.eddietrunk.com/blog.php

Sounds horrifying... It took years to finish Chinese Democracy and now it might take years to get it on shelves..

Could some millionaire-fan please give the company a few bucks so this tragedy could finally reach a happy ending ?

[Naupis]

This totally confirms Mysteron's comment about the ball being in the label's court.

You have a company who cannot justify to shareholders dumping more money into a project that has already had a tremendous amount of money poured into it and will struggle to break even much less meet the initial projected return on investment they projected when Axl got his advance 10 years ago. The label probably considers CD as a sunk cost at this point financially given all the circumstances surrounding it and the environmental changes that have taken place in the industry. The company does not view GNR as an emotional investment the way us fans do, so they are making decisions based on dollars and cents and what will ultimately generate the greatest financial return to the shareholders. Considering how many of us own stocks and bonds on this board, we all understand this is the expectation.

Working off that assumption, if they have a fixed pie of money to spend in their division for artist promotion (throughout the label) they are going to put it towards promoting artists that they have little capital investment in terms of recording an album. Financially they could use the marketing budget Axl would hypothetically require( to actually sign off on letting them release the album) and put it towards 5 or 10 different artists that aggragately offer a much higher profit potential compared to the money they have invested in them. Realistically there is probably a ceiling on how many albums CD would sell regardless of marketing money, just given the difficulties middle aged rock acts have getting mainstream exposure in a world of top 40 radio. No matter who the band is if you can't penetrate top 40 or Adult contemporary formats there is only so many copies you are going to sell (for all non-greatest hits new releases), that is just the way it is.

On the other hand, from Axl's position he is between a rock and a hard place because he could hypothetically tell them they could release it at any time and they would gladly do it, but it is not in his interest to do so if it does not have the high dollar promotion that is required because he can't afford to take the chance that it would possibly bomb due to a lack of promo. He has essentially pegged his entire musical legacy to this album just given everything surrounding the costs, line-up changes, vision, band name and everything else involved with the GNR world the past 15 years. If CD fails it will significantly damage his legacy and would be seen as a public rejection of his vision and everything he is trying to do.

If he is weighing the pro's and cons of whether he is better off not releasing it, or releasing it without promo and taking his chances knowing how much he personally has riding on it he is better off not releasing it. The downside risk is far less with the not release it option than releasing it without promo if the label won't give him money to do so. It is hard to blame him for not wanting to let it go without knowing that every effort humanly possible is made to ensure it is successful. It has to be all or nothing with everything he has riding on it.

The irony of the situation and the big FU to GNR fans everywhere is that for the longest time it was the label that was completely helpless to release it (and God knows they really wanted to especially once the writing was on the wall in terms of declining CD sales) but for whatever reason Axl was just unable to come up with some sort of finished album for them to release. With no album to release, the label had no choice but to sit on their hands and wait. Now Axl is the one who is chomping at the bit to release it finally that he is finished, but he is now being subjected to the stonewalling and non-cooperation that he engaged in for a decade. Much like the label couldn't release an album they didn't have, Axl can't release an album he does have if they won't give him the budget neccessary to match the hype and expectation associated with the project. Like the label for so many years, he may be looking at having to sit on it for an indefinite amount of time until the business environment changes and the label decides their is a financial incentive to give him the budget the album needs. In a complete reversal of fortune he is now a slave to them in a sense the way they were to him for the past decade, waiting on something you aren't quite sure if it is ever coming.

As is to be expected the fans will continue to be the big losers. The sad part is that neither side is being unreasonable in the stance they are most likely taking. Given the shear economics involved and the business environment of 2008, the label is completely justified to tell Axl that it just doesn't make sense to put any money into CD at this point as there are other business opportunities that are more attractive to use the money for. Axl is completely justified to tell them he is not going to risk his musical legacy on letting them release a GNR album if they are not going to pay to promote it the way it needs to be to ensure it is not viewed as a failure.  From an objective, non-emotional viewpoint it is hard to say that either side is wrong.

That just leaves us with a big clusterfuck and no end in site. If GNR fans didn't have bad luck they would have no luck at all.

[wight gunner]

That explains a lot, It would seem to me that the release of CD may be  compromised due to lack of return.

This being the case, it wouldn't suprise me if the record label are telling Axl that he would need to tie in future releases into the existing deal. Axl would, (as we all would) feel pissed by this, pretty much in the same way Neil Young did when Geffen, who in turn sued NY for producing music in a style that wasn't complict what NY fans would expect.

CD on its own might not get the money back, but 3 (as is alleged to be available) albums worth of material might. This would indicate that Axl is holding onto the unChinese Democracy stuff and saying if you want it, its gonna cost you....... IF this is the case, then given the cost of CD, then the label  feels that Guns n' Roses own the label for stumping up the funds for CD.

This is all of course speculation, but if its near the mark, unless something gives, CD won't be out for a long time 

[PeterCoffin]

I don't think it's exactly the same.

Back when MTV was the only medium to get your video shown, you got your video on rotation on MTV and you were pretty much done. People would see it sooner or later.

Today it seems that there's no easy way to get the same amount of people to see your video.

Just an example of how I think things have changed.




/jarmo

its even easier nowdays.
one just has to think a little bit more....
as opposed to MTV being the only medium, now you have hundreds more.....

only difference is that artists and their management have to work a little bit harder at the moment, as opposed to sending a tape to MTV and sitting back whilst the success rolls in all by itself....

It's way easier nowadays. I put no money behind my web video and cumulitively, my videos have been viewed more than 3,200,000 times. If I can do that with $0, a record company can get a NEW[/b] Guns N' Roses video in front of 15 million people within a month or so.

You can do a lot more with nothing nowadays.

[Fingers]

It would be interesting to know what the final cost is at this point-I'm not sure how a record is made, or how the billing is done, but the costs must have been out of this world for all the musicians and producers who have worked on this

[Bill 213]

Another scary scenario about this whole thing is that.......if it IS in the record company's hands now......who will protect CD from being leaked onto the market waaaaaay too early and REALLY blow the sales.  Any numbnuts with access to it can easily upload it and therefore put them in the doghouse way further than expected.  Strike hot while the iron is plugged in. 
We don't have Axl's adamantium case to protect the album anymore    Now it's in the hands of douches that care not about the integrity of it.

[Bartlet]

Any numbnuts with access to it can easily upload it and therefore put them in the doghouse way further than expected...?We don't have Axl's adamantium case to protect the album anymore? ? Now it's in the hands of douches that care not about the integrity of it.

Good.

[ppbebe]

the record company will protect cd.

I'm not sure how a record is made, or how the billing is done, but the costs must have been out of this world for all the musicians and producers who have worked on this

even so, I guess some here would pay more as they claim that the fans want to get CD out as much as axl does or more. 

I don't think it's exactly the same.

Back when MTV was the only medium to get your video shown, you got your video on rotation on MTV and you were pretty much done. People would see it sooner or later.

Today it seems that there's no easy way to get the same amount of people to see your video.

Just an example of how I think things have changed.




/jarmo

its even easier nowdays.
one just has to think a little bit more....
as opposed to MTV being the only medium, now you have hundreds more.....

only difference is that artists and their management have to work a little bit harder at the moment, as opposed to sending a tape to MTV and sitting back whilst the success rolls in all by itself....

It's way easier nowadays. I put no money behind my web video and cumulitively, my videos have been viewed more than 3,200,000 times. If I can do that with $0, a record company can get a NEW[/b] Guns N' Roses video in front of 15 million people within a month or so.

You can do a lot more with nothing nowadays.

Internet kills video stars? I think it's in transition.
In a surfeit of information
People are not so passive as before.
Few people buy what vjs/magazines say.
People choose what to see.

Exposure is always a must if you want to get your music to as many people as possible.
I don't see making good music today being less important than when mtv was people's main source.

[ppbebe]

One could only hope. I wish my area would pick up Trunk's show. It's good stuff.

Here's his post:
"I hear the new G&R CD is actually done, but the delay in release is not the bands issues but the label. There is so much money tied up in this record that in todays business it will be virtually impossible to be profitable, meaning the label might want to sell it off but can not find a buyer since nobody buys CDs anymore. "

Isn't he talking about the possibility that the label is selling the right to release the album?

[faldor]

Internet kills video stars? I think it's in transition.
In a surfeit of information
People are not so passive as before.
Few people buy what vjs/magazines say.
People choose what to see.

Exposure is always a must if you want to get your music to as many people as possible.
I don't see making good music today being less important than when mtv was people's main source.

Internet kills video stars.

Sounds like The Buggles have a new hit on their hands.? I call for a reunion.

[Jonx]

Interesting, but hardly suprising.

Axl's best option would be to buy it off Universal but i doubt hes going to be able to afford to do that. His only saving grace is that he has a personal relationship with Iovine, hopefully they will cut out all the bullshit corporate stuff and sort this whole thing out at a high level, above the middle managers. Compared to most other acts in the business today Axl is a dinosaur, a product of another age. He needs to be dealt with by music men of that era, luckily Universal still have some of them left, not many other majors do!

Jonx

[greendog]

I know theres a lot of speculation going on about how the label release the album.

but PLEASE God, DONT let it be released in a fucking jewel case. DigiPak for the win Lush artwork with a gorgeous matte finnish. You've come this far, why compromise the quality.?


:]