2008 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[D]

If Boston get Tex

NY have to get Manny


Thats just the way I see it. Manny Would offset getting Tex PLUS make A Rod even more dangerous and take a lot of the post season pressure off of him.

Can u see batting Manny behind A Rod. WOW!

[cotis]

I think a lineup of;

Damon CF
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
A-Rod 3B
Manny LF
Matsui DH
Nady RF
Swisher 1B
Posada C

...is one hell of a lineup. Maybe switch out Damon/Melky here and there...Give Miranda a start or two at 1B...Trade Matsui and put Manny at DH and Melky in CF, move Damon to CF.

Regardless, that lineup with CC, AJ, Joba, Wang and Sheets/Pettitte/Lowe is scary. You can't deny that.

[D]

AJ= Jaret Wright/Carl Pavano

I hope i am wrong


If the Yanks get Manny, Ill order that damn MLB extra innings package or whatever its called, cause I will want to see every game.

[tim_m]

AJ= Jaret Wright/Carl Pavano

I hope i am wrong


If the Yanks get Manny, Ill order that damn MLB extra innings package or whatever its called, cause I will want to see every game.

Shit i hope you're wrong too. Those two were nightmares. Ironically thought Pavano was actually pretty good for us towards the end of the year this past season. I'm sure he'll break down again though. Thankfully it won't be for us!

[cotis]

I doubt it, like AJ and the guys said on Sportscenter today...most of his injuries were from when he was younger in his career, and when he didn't take care of himself. He, himself admitted that he used to air his arm out everyday, not truly TAKE CARE of his arm. Since his last (major) DL stint, he's changed and reformed and taken a lot better care of himself.

And to be frank, there is no comparing AJ Burnett with Carl fucking Pavano or Jaret Wright. That's absurd. They're no way at all HALF the pitcher AJ is/was.

p.s. AJ's wife is hawt.

[D]

I doubt it, like AJ and the guys said on Sportscenter today...most of his injuries were from when he was younger in his career, and when he didn't take care of himself. He, himself admitted that he used to air his arm out everyday, not truly TAKE CARE of his arm. Since his last (major) DL stint, he's changed and reformed and taken a lot better care of himself.

And to be frank, there is no comparing AJ Burnett with Carl fucking Pavano or Jaret Wright. That's absurd. They're no way at all HALF the pitcher AJ is/was.

p.s. AJ's wife is hawt.

Wasn't comparing skill, just being injury prone etc. 

[faldor]

The latest on Texeira

  Henry: Red Sox will be outbid for Teixeira 
   
  Red Sox owner John Henry wrote Thursday that he doesn't expect the team to "be a factor" in the final bidding for Mark Teixeira.

"We met with Mr. Teixeira and were very much impressed with him," Henry said. "After hearing about his other offers, however, it seems clear that we are not going to be a factor." Negotiating ploy or the end of Boston's flirtation? We're guessing agent Scott Boras was still presenting the Red Sox with some unrealistic expectations during the face-to-face negotiations Thursday. It's pretty clear that the Red Sox won't go beyond eight years in a deal for the first baseman. Dec. 18 - 10:56 pm et
Source: Boston.com 

[tim_m]

I'd like to know just exactly what he's being offered and by who.

[faldor]

I'd like to know just exactly what he's being offered and by who.

Or what Boras is telling them he's being offered and by who?

I'd assume, IF the reports are true, AND the offers being discussed are true, it must be the Nationals.  Maybe they gave in and added the extra 2 years and/or more money.  It's gotta be something pretty big for Henry to claim the Sox aren't going to be a factor, again IF Boras is telling the truth, which is always a question.

[tim_m]

Yeah i don't trust that guy as far as i could throw him to tell the truth.

[pilferk]

pilferk, we could go back and forth till the end of time on this one.  Let's just accept that I will not back down that I think the Red Sox are better than the Yankees, and you think otherwise.  That's how it's supposed to be though.  I don't know why you expect me to come out and say that the Yanks are a better team.  I honestly don't believe that and I'm not just saying that for the fun of it.

I haven't said you should.  You shouldn't think the Yanks are a better team.  But there's a difference between thinking your rival is better than you, and worrying that your rival is getting better.

A few notes

Report: Sox in Texas Hoping to Wrap Up Teixeira
The Buzz: The Latest on the Sox Trying to Close Teixeira

WCVB-TV Channel 5's Mike Lynch reported that Red Sox owner John Henry, team president Larry Lucchino, and GM Theo Epstein were in Texas tonight meeting with Teixeira's agent, Scott Boras, in an attempt to finish a deal for the free-agent first baseman. According to Lynch, who cited unnamed sources, the Sox were offering an eight-year, $184 million contract (average annual value is $23 million) and are hopeful they can wrap up a deal tonight.


And

The Boston Globe reports that "two general managers who were involved in the Mark Teixeira talks both felt the Red Sox had a leg up."

One general manager said that the Red Sox "have the highest offer on the table" and indicated that Boston's unwillingness to give Teixeira a 10-year contract won't be an issue because "no one's going there." The newspaper notes that the Red Sox don't really have a Plan B if Teixeira signs elsewhere, so they'd be left "with an offense pretty much like the one that ended the season." Of course, they scored the second-most runs in the league last season with 845, including 4.9 runs per game with Manny Ramirez and 5.8 runs per game after trading him.

I think the Sox have been the odds on favorite all off season.  And if they land the deal, their lineup will be MUCH better.  That one extra bat is what they need.  I think I said that?

Maybe the Red Sox offense really wasn't that bad without Manny protecting Ortiz after all?  Or was that all just smoke and mirrors?

Wasn't that bad?  No.  It wasn't "that bad".  They did pretty well after he left.  That's reality.  On PAPER,though?  I pretty much outlined their issues.  Few dangerous hitters, and a severe lack of power.  They might outperform that, again, when the games start...but do you want to count on that?

And IF the Sox do sign Texeira, Lowell would be the one to go.  No way they'd trade Youkilis, in my opinion.  And why would they.  Lowell is nearing the end of his career and is an injury risk.  Granted Youk would net more in return, but there IS a market for Lowell and even if they have to eat part of his salary they'd be able to get something helpful in return.  No way they'd get equal value, but adding Tex and another piece would more than ease the pain.  Youk is a gold glove 1B, and a pretty darn good 3B, not gold glove caliber like Lowell but he's not that far off.

Yeah, so I'm hearing....but were I the one making the call...the cost of losing Lowell is too high. You're GETTING a 1st baseman, and the guy playing 3rd, right now, is pretty darn good at his position.  AND he's got a hefty 2 years on his contract.  But you're probably right...

[pilferk]

I'd like to know just exactly what he's being offered and by who.

Or what Boras is telling them he's being offered and by who?

I'd assume, IF the reports are true, AND the offers being discussed are true, it must be the Nationals.  Maybe they gave in and added the extra 2 years and/or more money.  It's gotta be something pretty big for Henry to claim the Sox aren't going to be a factor, again IF Boras is telling the truth, which is always a question.

Either the nats, or the Yanks waited until the smoke cleared, waited until everyone else did their flirtation, and then swooped in with a 10 year, 270 million "insanity" deal.  I don't THINK they did..but it's the only other reasonable explanation I can see than the nats, if the Sox are REALLY out of the running.  Of course, as you point out, there's always the possibility Boras is overplaying his hand, and the Sox are just publically calling his bluff.  You just never know...

[cotis]

As a Yankee fan, I think that if Tex signs with us, we're golden. I do remember the last time we offered a HUGE & LONG contract to a 1B (Giambino...) which didn't kill us for a few years..Regardless, I think that if he signs, it'll drive a stake through the Red Sox fans' hearts because they thought for much of the off season they were going to lock him up, correct? What have they done this offseason, resign Wakefield? Also, changing their hats and uniforms was absurd in my point of view.

Anyways, we shall see what happens. Tex says he wants a home by Christmas right? We've got 5 days...

[pilferk]

As a Yankee fan, I think that if Tex signs with us, we're golden. I do remember the last time we offered a HUGE & LONG contract to a 1B (Giambino...) which didn't kill us for a few years..Regardless, I think that if he signs, it'll drive a stake through the Red Sox fans' hearts because they thought for much of the off season they were going to lock him up, correct? What have they done this offseason, resign Wakefield? Also, changing their hats and uniforms was absurd in my point of view.

Anyways, we shall see what happens. Tex says he wants a home by Christmas right? We've got 5 days...

Honestly, I don't think it's the Yanks.  If I had to bet, it would be the nats.  If the Yanks get him....man, oh man....but he's an awful expensive position player to lock up, as far as payroll is concerned, considering A-Rod and Jeter's current deals.  Even for the Yanks.....

And I agree on the Sox.   That's largely been my point...they're the same team they were last year, so far.  Not that that's a BAD thing for them...they were pretty decent.  But when everyone around you is making big moves to get better.....

On the flip side, maybe they don't want to be pressured into making a move.  We'll see.

[cotis]

I second your view on the Nats, possibly the Orioles but the Angels still intrigue me, I don't think they've given up yet. The Nat's & O's are probably offering more money than any other team and a longer rate, because what they hell else do they have to lose? Trying to make him the face of the franchise. But I don't see the point in signing with either, besides just the money. The Orioles will finish last in the AL East again, and the Nats will finish last in the NL East again.

Locking up Tex, for the Yankees atleast, puts them over the bar for next year. With how they finished last year, only 6 games back from the Sox (8 total out of 1st Place), the addition of CC & AJ, if Tex signs with the Yankees, I can't but help see them wining the AL East. Then with Wang coming back and (probably) Pettite returning. It's looking to be a good year in NY, regardless if the Yanks sign Tex or not. Hell, with Swisher at 1B I'd be happy, he can crank the ball, when he makes contact that is.

[tim_m]

I just saw on espnnews Boras says he is seeking a $195 million contract for Texiera for i assume in the 10 yr range.

[faldor]

I just saw on espnnews Boras says he is seeking a $195 million contract for Texiera for i assume in the 10 yr range.

That sounds low to me.  I read online he was looking for 184 over 8 years.

Some interesting tidbits in this article.  Ken Rosenthal feels whoever ends up with Texeira will ultimately be overpaying (big surprise there Ken).  While he makes some valid points, he's only looking at the offensive side of things and fails to mention that Texeira is a gold glove first baseman.  Manny may be a better hitter than Mark, but Texeira is in his prime and Manny is slowly beginning the backside of his career and obviously he's nowhere near the defesive presence. 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/12/teixeira_talk_r.html

FoxSports.com's Ken Rosenthal still believes the Red Sox will be the eventual landing spot for Teixeira, but questions if the free agent is worth the money reportedly on the table:

Wherever Teixeira ends up, and Boston is still the best guess, his deal is certain to exceed the eight-year, $160 million deal that Ramirez signed with the Red Sox in 2000 -- a deal that included $31 million in deferred payments, significantly reducing its present-day value.
Then the question will become: Is "Tex" worth it?

Aside from the obvious, "No player is" -- especially in the middle of a worldwide economic crisis -- the answer is indeed arguable.

Among active players, Teixeira ranks only 19th in adjusted OPS -- his rate above the league average expressed as a percentage.

Pujols is first in that statistic, Ramirez third and A-Rod tied for sixth. Teixeira is just behind David Ortiz, just ahead of Jason Bay and J.D. Drew. Nothing spectacular.

To view Teixeira in simpler terms, he never has finished higher than seventh in the MVP balloting -- seventh!

[tim_m]

I just saw on espnnews Boras says he is seeking a $195 million contract for Texiera for i assume in the 10 yr range.

That sounds low to me.  I read online he was looking for 184 over 8 years.

Some interesting tidbits in this article.  Ken Rosenthal feels whoever ends up with Texeira will ultimately be overpaying (big surprise there Ken).  While he makes some valid points, he's only looking at the offensive side of things and fails to mention that Texeira is a gold glove first baseman.  Manny may be a better hitter than Mark, but Texeira is in his prime and Manny is slowly beginning the backside of his career and obviously he's nowhere near the defesive presence. 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/12/teixeira_talk_r.html

FoxSports.com's Ken Rosenthal still believes the Red Sox will be the eventual landing spot for Teixeira, but questions if the free agent is worth the money reportedly on the table:

Wherever Teixeira ends up, and Boston is still the best guess, his deal is certain to exceed the eight-year, $160 million deal that Ramirez signed with the Red Sox in 2000 -- a deal that included $31 million in deferred payments, significantly reducing its present-day value.
Then the question will become: Is "Tex" worth it?

Aside from the obvious, "No player is" -- especially in the middle of a worldwide economic crisis -- the answer is indeed arguable.

Among active players, Teixeira ranks only 19th in adjusted OPS -- his rate above the league average expressed as a percentage.

Pujols is first in that statistic, Ramirez third and A-Rod tied for sixth. Teixeira is just behind David Ortiz, just ahead of Jason Bay and J.D. Drew. Nothing spectacular.

To view Teixeira in simpler terms, he never has finished higher than seventh in the MVP balloting -- seventh!

Thats what Buster Olney and Peter Gammons are reporting. They're usually pretty accurate with their sources so we'll see. I agree that he really isn't worth it. He's a good player a very good player but i think there are others a lot better then him.

[faldor]

Fortunately for him, he's the prize of this free agent class, at least on offense.  If he had more competition he wouldn't see the figures that are being offered.  But that's the case, plus he's young, in his prime, and is a great hitter and defender.  So while he may not be worth what teams are offering, it's no surprise the offers are being made.  But what he and Boras are looking for, I'm not sure any team is going there.  The Red Sox called their bluff, we'll see if anyone bites or if they have to lower their ridiculous expectations.

[sandman]

i'm surprised the yankees have not signed Texiera or Manny. i guess every team has their limits. maybe they really are feeling the pain of not selling thier luxury boxes.