2008 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[faldor]

There is risk involved in all big free agent signings, especially with pitchers.  And they rarely seem to work out, at least in terms of the dollars spent.  So the odds are against the Yankees here hitting homeruns and getting their money out of Sabathia and Burnett.  Both are great pitchers and certainly are capable to living up to their contracts.  BUT, I don't see it happening.  Thing is though, it really doesn't matter in a financial sense to the Yankees.  Obviously if Tampa Bay or Kansas City spent that kind of money and it didn't work out it'd be damaging.  But if it doesn't work out for the Yanks they can just overspend somewhere else to try and fix the problem.

The Red Sox have been big on Burnett for years.  Curt Schilling, John Henry, etc. have said he has the best stuff of any pitcher in the majors.  And he is real good when he's on.  He pitched real well last season in a contract year.  But the injury history can't be denied.  This seems to have Jaret Wright written all over it, okay maybe not that extreme, but still.  As for Sabathia's poor playoff performance.  Well first, you gotta get to the playoffs, something the Yankees couldn't do last season.  Sabathia has carried the Indians and Brewers into the playoffs in recent years with Cy Young performances.  In the process he's pitched a huge amount of innings and taken the ball on 3 days rest multiple times down the stretch.  I think that has had an adverse effect on him in October.  I don't think it's that he necessarily folds under pressure in the playoffs.  I think it's more that he's worn down by then.  If the Yankees can avoid overusing him, I think he'll be fine.  OR, I could be wrong, and I hope I am, and he could be another Alex Rodriguez.  Great in the regular season, not so much in October.

Also, reports are that talks are progressing between Texeira and the Red Sox.  I was worried that the Angels might jump ahead of them after losing out on Sabathia, but apparently Mark really wants to play on the East Coast, and NOT in Washington or Baltimore.  I would welcome him with open arms.  We got rid of Manny's contract finally and will have to sign Mark to a contract of similar dollars and length.  Unfortunatley it would probably mean they'd have to trade Mike Lowell.  But we'll cross that bridge when/if we get there.  Even without Texeira they have a pretty solid team.  I'd be fiine with the current roster.  I'm just a little worried about the everyday lineup getting a little older and being injury prone (Ortiz, Drew, Lowell).

[western_chaos]

So, it's all but confirmed.Ver

CC Sabathia signed for 7 years and 161 million and AJ Burnett signed for in the 80 million range something like 82.5 million over 5 years. I don't necessarily like either deal but I think these two players will at least for the short term help our team which would have been expected to be .500 this year with no major move. Now, the roation of Wang-Chamberlain-Sabathia-Burnett is much better than Wang-Chamberlain-Hughes-Kennedy. It's just about the fifth starter now...the yankees could either choose a younger guy, see about Derek Lowe who remains unsigned or re-sign Pettite for less money.

I would prefer them go with Pettite or something like that and create the rotation of Wang-Chamberlain-Pettite-Sabathia-Burnett. Excellent rotation regardless.

[faldor]

I assume you're just listing the starters in no particular order because Sabathia is hands down the ace of that staff.  He better damn well be if he's making 23 million a year.  Looks like a pretty solid staff on PAPER, we'll see how it translates though.  The Yanks have had some pretty solid teams on PAPER the last couple of years and that hasn't exactly done them much good.  I'm still trying to think of the last free agent pitching signing that actually lived up to the hype/dollars,,,,,, anyone?  Not saying it won't or can't happen, but it's a bit unconventional to go out and sign 2/5 of your starting rotation to pretty much anchor the staff.  This is the Yankees though, they're anything but conventional.  I still believe their offense is far less potent than people believe it to be.  They struggled to score runs last year consistently.  Yes, I know they had plenty of injuries, but they're not getting any younger.  And Nick Swisher?  Is he really an upgrade over Abreau, Giambi, etc.?

Needless to say, as a Sox fan, I'm not scared of the recent acquisitions the Yanks have made.  Bring it!  Are they better?  Yes.  We'll see how much better though.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I assume you're just listing the starters in no particular order because Sabathia is hands down the ace of that staff.  He better damn well be if he's making 23 million a year.  Looks like a pretty solid staff on PAPER, we'll see how it translates though.  The Yanks have had some pretty solid teams on PAPER the last couple of years and that hasn't exactly done them much good.  I'm still trying to think of the last free agent pitching signing that actually lived up to the hype/dollars,,,,,, anyone?  Not saying it won't or can't happen, but it's a bit unconventional to go out and sign 2/5 of your starting rotation to pretty much anchor the staff.  This is the Yankees though, they're anything but conventional.  I still believe their offense is far less potent than people believe it to be.  They struggled to score runs last year consistently.  Yes, I know they had plenty of injuries, but they're not getting any younger.  And Nick Swisher?  Is he really an upgrade over Abreau, Giambi, etc.?

Needless to say, as a Sox fan, I'm not scared of the recent acquisitions the Yanks have made.  Bring it!  Are they better?  Yes.  We'll see how much better though.

Your Stinky Sox will take the division.

You won't look good doing it though.  Those new uni's are AWFUL!

[tim_m]

I assume you're just listing the starters in no particular order because Sabathia is hands down the ace of that staff.  He better damn well be if he's making 23 million a year.  Looks like a pretty solid staff on PAPER, we'll see how it translates though.  The Yanks have had some pretty solid teams on PAPER the last couple of years and that hasn't exactly done them much good.  I'm still trying to think of the last free agent pitching signing that actually lived up to the hype/dollars,,,,,, anyone?  Not saying it won't or can't happen, but it's a bit unconventional to go out and sign 2/5 of your starting rotation to pretty much anchor the staff.  This is the Yankees though, they're anything but conventional.  I still believe their offense is far less potent than people believe it to be.  They struggled to score runs last year consistently.  Yes, I know they had plenty of injuries, but they're not getting any younger.  And Nick Swisher?  Is he really an upgrade over Abreau, Giambi, etc.?

Needless to say, as a Sox fan, I'm not scared of the recent acquisitions the Yanks have made.  Bring it!  Are they better?  Yes.  We'll see how much better though.

I'm not sure the yanks are completely done. I think they are as far as free agents but i know they are at least still trying to move cabrera for cameron. Some think they could still go after Texeira but i just don't see that with what they already spent. I think they'll try to upgrade the offense via the trade market. I would like to see them resign pettitte again but i think he's being a bit of a little bitch. He turned down a 1 yr 10 mil contract already and he was only a .500 guy last year. He was less than stellar in most of his starts. I'd like to see the 5th spot go to Hughes. He's been pitching well in the AFL and we would have 4 of 5 starters under 30. I'm not sure what Pettitte has left but hey look what Moose did in his last year so what do i know! I still wish he had really come back one more year at least.

[faldor]

I assume you're just listing the starters in no particular order because Sabathia is hands down the ace of that staff.  He better damn well be if he's making 23 million a year.  Looks like a pretty solid staff on PAPER, we'll see how it translates though.  The Yanks have had some pretty solid teams on PAPER the last couple of years and that hasn't exactly done them much good.  I'm still trying to think of the last free agent pitching signing that actually lived up to the hype/dollars,,,,,, anyone?  Not saying it won't or can't happen, but it's a bit unconventional to go out and sign 2/5 of your starting rotation to pretty much anchor the staff.  This is the Yankees though, they're anything but conventional.  I still believe their offense is far less potent than people believe it to be.  They struggled to score runs last year consistently.  Yes, I know they had plenty of injuries, but they're not getting any younger.  And Nick Swisher?  Is he really an upgrade over Abreau, Giambi, etc.?

Needless to say, as a Sox fan, I'm not scared of the recent acquisitions the Yanks have made.  Bring it!  Are they better?  Yes.  We'll see how much better though.

Your Stinky Sox will take the division.

You won't look good doing it though.  Those new uni's are AWFUL!

I know, what's up with those new uni's?  It's all about dollars, more merchandise to sell now.  It's only a matter of time before they start plastering the Green Monster with advertising billboards like in the old days.

[western_chaos]

LOL. The Yanks really made a push to get younger which I'm glad of lol which is why I think they got rid of giambi, abreu, plus the money they were making. Abreu will be signed by another team and Giambi reportdly is interested in returning to Oakland.

I don't see them getting Texiera, etc... It remains to be seen what what the Yankees may or may not do in the free agent/trade market.

With the line-up they currently have, Posada (returning as catcher), Nick Swisher (newly acquired), Robinson Cano, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriquez, Xavier Nady (from Pittsburg), Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui (possibly) and even potentially Brett Gardner or Melky Cabrera, I see them still strugling to score runs so many they could use a Mark Texiera to help compliment A-rod, cause now both Abreu and Giambi are gone. I see their offense as a weak point now.

[faldor]

LOL. The Yanks really made a push to get younger which I'm glad of lol which is why I think they got rid of giambi, abreu, plus the money they were making. Abreu will be signed by another team and Giambi reportdly is interested in returning to Oakland.

I don't see them getting Texiera, etc... It remains to be seen what what the Yankees may or may not do in the free agent/trade market.

With the line-up they currently have, Posada (returning as catcher), Nick Swisher (newly acquired), Robinson Cano, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriquez, Xavier Nady (from Pittsburg), Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui (possibly) and even potentially Brett Gardner or Melky Cabrera, I see them still strugling to score runs so many they could use a Mark Texiera to help compliment A-rod, cause now both Abreu and Giambi are gone. I see their offense as a weak point now.

I don't know if I'd go so far to call it "weak".  Although I agree offense was more of a problem LAST season for the Yanks than their pitching.  They still have loads of potential in the lineup and there really are no weak spots.  IF their regulars could stay healthy I think they'd be just fine.  But Posada, Damon, and Matusui are no guarantees there.  And Cano, Cabrera, and even Jeter had down years last year (though Cabrera will probably be traded for Mike Cameron).  Cameron has some pop but he's never hit for much of an average.  Great defense in CF though.  I really think Tex would help them out a lot, and I pray to god they don't go after him.  Obviously I hope he comes to the Sox, but as always if he doesn't, anywhere but the Yankees.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I assume you're just listing the starters in no particular order because Sabathia is hands down the ace of that staff.  He better damn well be if he's making 23 million a year.  Looks like a pretty solid staff on PAPER, we'll see how it translates though.  The Yanks have had some pretty solid teams on PAPER the last couple of years and that hasn't exactly done them much good.  I'm still trying to think of the last free agent pitching signing that actually lived up to the hype/dollars,,,,,, anyone?  Not saying it won't or can't happen, but it's a bit unconventional to go out and sign 2/5 of your starting rotation to pretty much anchor the staff.  This is the Yankees though, they're anything but conventional.  I still believe their offense is far less potent than people believe it to be.  They struggled to score runs last year consistently.  Yes, I know they had plenty of injuries, but they're not getting any younger.  And Nick Swisher?  Is he really an upgrade over Abreau, Giambi, etc.?

Needless to say, as a Sox fan, I'm not scared of the recent acquisitions the Yanks have made.  Bring it!  Are they better?  Yes.  We'll see how much better though.

Your Stinky Sox will take the division.

You won't look good doing it though.  Those new uni's are AWFUL!

I know, what's up with those new uni's?  It's all about dollars, more merchandise to sell now.  It's only a matter of time before they start plastering the Green Monster with advertising billboards like in the old days.

It IS plastered with billboards.  They just do a really good job incorporating it with the scoreboard using the same color theme.

[western_chaos]

So, after getting Sabathia and Burnett, the yankees have reportedly joined the Texiera sweepstakes.

The angels have offered him the most years though with 8 years offered.

[pilferk]

Needless to say, as a Sox fan, I'm not scared of the recent acquisitions the Yanks have made.  Bring it!  Are they better?  Yes.  We'll see how much better though.

The Yanks finished exactly 6 games behind Boston, and 8 behind TB.

That's with their rotation crippled by bad decisions regarding young talent, injuries, and instability. 

You SERIOUSLY don't think that CC and Burnett make the Yanks 8 games better than they were last year?  When Wang suddenly goes from arguably the ace on their staff to start last year to their #3, and MAYBE #4 (depending on Joba) pitcher?  And their #2, to start last year, IF we resign him, goes to the very back of the rotation?

C'mon...at least be realistic.

The Yanks may not win the division...it's certainly not a guarentee.  But if you're in the AL East, and you're looking at the Yanks potential rotation and saying you're NOT scared....you're either lying to yourself or you're delusional.  There isn't a better potential rotation, on paper, in baseball, IMHO.  Not even close.  You might hope they don't execute....but you gotta be nervous at the outset that they WILL.

[pilferk]

LOL. The Yanks really made a push to get younger which I'm glad of lol which is why I think they got rid of giambi, abreu, plus the money they were making. Abreu will be signed by another team and Giambi reportdly is interested in returning to Oakland.

I don't see them getting Texiera, etc... It remains to be seen what what the Yankees may or may not do in the free agent/trade market.

With the line-up they currently have, Posada (returning as catcher), Nick Swisher (newly acquired), Robinson Cano, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriquez, Xavier Nady (from Pittsburg), Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui (possibly) and even potentially Brett Gardner or Melky Cabrera, I see them still strugling to score runs so many they could use a Mark Texiera to help compliment A-rod, cause now both Abreu and Giambi are gone. I see their offense as a weak point now.

I don't know if I'd go so far to call it "weak".  Although I agree offense was more of a problem LAST season for the Yanks than their pitching.  They still have loads of potential in the lineup and there really are no weak spots.  IF their regulars could stay healthy I think they'd be just fine.  But Posada, Damon, and Matusui are no guarantees there.  And Cano, Cabrera, and even Jeter had down years last year (though Cabrera will probably be traded for Mike Cameron).  Cameron has some pop but he's never hit for much of an average.  Great defense in CF though.  I really think Tex would help them out a lot, and I pray to god they don't go after him.  Obviously I hope he comes to the Sox, but as always if he doesn't, anywhere but the Yankees.

They need ONE more good bat in the lineup and they will be pretty much set.  We'll see if they get it.

[faldor]

Needless to say, as a Sox fan, I'm not scared of the recent acquisitions the Yanks have made.  Bring it!  Are they better?  Yes.  We'll see how much better though.

The Yanks finished exactly 6 games behind Boston, and 8 behind TB.

That's with their rotation crippled by bad decisions regarding young talent, injuries, and instability. 

You SERIOUSLY don't think that CC and Burnett make the Yanks 8 games better than they were last year?  When Wang suddenly goes from arguably the ace on their staff to start last year to their #3, and MAYBE #4 (depending on Joba) pitcher?  And their #2, to start last year, IF we resign him, goes to the very back of the rotation?

C'mon...at least be realistic.

The Yanks may not win the division...it's certainly not a guarentee.  But if you're in the AL East, and you're looking at the Yanks potential rotation and saying you're NOT scared....you're either lying to yourself or you're delusional.  There isn't a better potential rotation, on paper, in baseball, IMHO.  Not even close.  You might hope they don't execute....but you gotta be nervous at the outset that they WILL.

Wang is better than Burnett so he's #2, at least in my opinion.  Burnett has potential but hasn't ever really live up to his billing.  Wang is the more consistent pitcher, until October.  Chamberlain, again loads of potential, but he broke down last year as a starter and in that role he only managed to pitch into the 7th inning 3 times, and got through the 7th once.  So if you're telling me CC is gonna pitch like he did in the NL last year, Burnett's gonna finally put it all together, Wang's gonna avoid injuries and pick up right where he left off, Chamberlain's gonna build up stamina to pitch deeper into games while at the same time avoiding a dead arm and overusage.  Well IF that all happens, then you got me.  I'm a little scared.  I just don't see all that happening.  That's all.  Not sure the Sox rotation doesn't rank right up there with the Yankees as is anyway. 

Beckett vs. Sabathia (Beckett should've beat him out for the Cy Young 2 seasons ago.  Granted CC had the far better season last year and Beckett has injury concerns lingering into this season)

Lester vs. Wang (Wang has the better and longer track record, but if Lester picks up where he left off last season he's every bit the pitcher)

Dice K vs. Burnett (Both have loads of potential but really haven't been as good as advertised.  Both are still very good pitchers and have progressed.  Both are among the league leaders in BB's, with Dice K taking top honors.  However Dice K had a FAR better ERA.)

Wakefield vs. Chamberlain (I'm not gonna fool around with this one.  Obviously the edge goes to Joba.  Tim's a warrior and does a lot for the Sox, but he is what he is.)

Buccholz/Masterson vs. Hughes/Pettitte (Pettitte would have the advantage IF he re-signs.  Masterson would probably remain in the bullpen giving Clay another shot to be the 5th starter.  I do expect them to sign some sort of veteran starting pitcher for insurance, so this one's hard to call.  Hughes was far from stellar last year, though I think he showed some promise towards the end.  But we've heard that story before.)

Looks pretty even to me.  My main point was that I thought their lineup needed more tinkering than "they" thought.  They went to work on the pitching, while I thought their offense was an equal problem, if not more of one.

[pilferk]

Wang is better than Burnett so he's #2, at least in my opinion.  Burnett has potential but hasn't ever really live up to his billing.

Wang's and Burnett's career stats are almost identical.  The difference?  Burnett has played for Florida and Toronto...not exactly great franchises who have long standing winning teams.  I suspect you'll see better numbers from Burnett...and yes, I suspect he takes the 2 spot in the rotation.  We'll see if the Yanks surprise us.

Wang is the more consistent pitcher, until October.

Wang is fickle.  He wins consistently, but that sinker isn't consistent.  He doesn't have the power pitching numbers the Yanks want in their #2, I suspect.  But he's a GREAT #3, because after 2 days of CC and Burnett, pretty much every team is going to see Wang, who's stuff is going to look even more nasty while the other team tries to get the drastic change in timing and location down.  Burnett throws strikes.  The only question there is...can he stay healthy and give them something close to 30 starts, like he did last year.

Chamberlain, again loads of potential, but he broke down last year as a starter and in that role he only managed to pitch into the 7th inning 3 times, and got through the 7th once.

Ditto for most of the Yankees pitching staff.  But Joba also was converted from the pen to a starting role and then back again.  Personally, I STILL think Joba should be the setup guy for Rivera, and be their "closer of the future".  Sign Lowe (or Sheets) AND Pettite, instead.  But I don't think you can assume that his lack of stamina LAST year will have anything to do with this years.  They're going to build him, from day one, as a starter. 

So if you're telling me CC is gonna pitch like he did in the NL last year,

Look at how he pitched in Cleveland after his first month.  It wasn't JUST the NL.  That's a myth.  He had ONE bad month.  That was it.  And he shouldn't need to pitch 9 innings every time he takes the mound for the Yanks to win.  7 should do it.

Burnett's gonna finally put it all together

His career stats are pretty darn good.  Sub 4 ERA, high strike outs, etc.  "Pull it all together"?  I'll take 25 starts with his EXACT same career stats.  I think our offense can probably eke out a few more wins for him than he's gotten in the past.  Really, only his "win/loss" would lead you to assume he needs to "pull it together".  But then...look at the teams he's played on.

Wang's gonna avoid injuries and pick up right where he left off,

The guys been injured ONCE in his career....last year.  I don't think we need to worry about him "avoiding injuries".  As for picking up right where he left off:  He has the advantage of not being a power pitcher, but being a location/ground ball pitcher.  It's not quite like Wakefield (who could practically pitch the day after shoulder surgery), but it's nowhere near like Randy Johnson, either.  From the Yankees organization...so far he looks fine, and is actually ahead of where they thought he'd be.  Guess we'll see during spring training.

Chamberlain's gonna build up stamina to pitch deeper into games while at the same time avoiding a dead arm and overusage.  Well IF that all happens, then you got me.  I'm a little scared.  I just don't see all that happening.  That's all.  Not sure the Sox rotation doesn't rank right up there with the Yankees as is anyway.

ALL of it doesn't have to happen.  If ALL of it happens, the Yanks cakewalk into the World Series, winning 120 games on their way there.  Only SOME of it has to happen....because they weren't TOO far off the pace last year, now were they?  Are you really going to assume NONE of it is going to happen?  Face it:  Your cheif rival has spent the offseason getting a WHOLE lot better (at least on paper) than they were last year, from a starting pitching perspective.  Again, if you're not worried, you're either lying to yourself or you're delusional.   I'm not saying you should be packing it in for the season, conceeding, or shaking in your boots.  But the facts are the facts....and the possibilities here have got to have you at least concerned a LITTLE.  Or are you REALLY telling me you relish the though of facing Sabathia, Burnett, Wang and Chamberlain in that 4 game series late in the season?

Beckett vs. Sabathia (Beckett should've beat him out for the Cy Young 2 seasons ago.  Granted CC had the far better season last year and Beckett has injury concerns lingering into this season)

No, he shouldn't have.  Sabathia was clearly better.  Beckett was amazing.  Sabathia's numbers were even more dominant.  But the fact is:  You don't know which Beckett you're going to get...the guy who was dominant 2 years ago, or the guy who fell apart last year and was just average.  He very well might not be the pitcher he used to be...we'll see.  But even prime vs prime, Sabathia gets the nod.

Lester vs. Wang (Wang has the better and longer track record, but if Lester picks up where he left off last season he's every bit the pitcher)

Dice K vs. Burnett (Both have loads of potential but really haven't been as good as advertised.  Both are still very good pitchers and have progressed.  Both are among the league leaders in BB's, with Dice K taking top honors.  However Dice K had a FAR better ERA.)

If you assume Wang is the #2, I agree...it's close.  But then Burnett KILLS Dice K.  Burnett's stats (other than W-L %, which is stilted by Dice K's shorter career, and ERA, which is also representative of the defense behind a pitcher) are LOADS better, and are based on a lot more history.  Dice K is so inconsistent it's not even funny.  And Dice K's career ERA is NOT "FAR better".  It's .09 points better....in front of a MUCH better defense than Burnett has ever played in front of.  In 2007, it was well over 4, as a matter of fact.  He had a better ERA LAST YEAR.  He had a VERY good half a year, cobbled together between months of 10 ERA and a couple of mid to high 3's.  By the end of the season he was getting smacked around again.   You worry about Joba's stamina?  Remember...Dice K had NEVER pitched the kind of innings, in Japan, that they need him to pitch over here.  And in both his first two seasons, he's faded over the last few weeks.  Fatigue or not, that's gotta make you take notice.

Wakefield vs. Chamberlain (I'm not gonna fool around with this one.  Obviously the edge goes to Joba.  Tim's a warrior and does a lot for the Sox, but he is what he is.)

Yup, on this, we agree.  Though I give Wakefield a lot of credit.  He's made a very nice career around one pitch, more or less, and he's very crafty.  For the longest time, that knucleball seemed to give the Yanks offense, and offenses in general, FITS.  Not so much the past couple years......and he hasn't lost velocity on it.  So either hitters are figuring it out, or his location/movement has fallen off just a bit.

Buccholz/Masterson vs. Hughes/Pettitte (Pettitte would have the advantage IF he re-signs.  Masterson would probably remain in the bullpen giving Clay another shot to be the 5th starter.  I do expect them to sign some sort of veteran starting pitcher for insurance, so this one's hard to call.  Hughes was far from stellar last year, though I think he showed some promise towards the end.  But we've heard that story before.)

You mean "vs Hughes (never happen)/Pettite/Lowe/Sheets".  The only one you might have an advantage over is Hughes....and it might be a big one.  He's pitched well so far in fall ball, so maybe he's turned the corner.  I'd want to see it, though.  Anyone else and the Sox lose the comparison.  Buccholz is OK, but like Hughes, he needs a LOT more seasoning.  If they need him in the bigs, keep him in the pen.  Masterson....well, if he won 10 games it would be a miracle.  He's not bad, but I just don't see him getting that many starts, as a regular option, without him getting shelled.  As a spot starter, he's a great option.  As an everyday plug in your rotation, he's weak.

Looks pretty even to me.  My main point was that I thought their lineup needed more tinkering than "they" thought.  They went to work on the pitching, while I thought their offense was an equal problem, if not more of one.

I don't even think it's close to even.  Not on paper.  Maybe in practice it will be.  In potential, it KILLS the Sox rotation.  In practice, it only really needs to deliver 8 or 9 more wins than last years rotation.  I think that's CERTAINLY within reach.

I think offense is OK.  Not like the Yanks lineups of the past, but....ONE more bat would change that.  Again, when looking...you can't assume EVERYONE is going to have the down years they had last year, just as you can't assume that everyone is going to have breakout years in the rotation.  Jeter puts up .300, A-rod bats .300 with 40 HR's, Damon does his normal thing, Cano has his normal "on fire" 2nd half.  The questions are at 1st, behind the plate, and in the outfield (assuming that Matsui or Damon is going to DH....).  If they can sign ONE more good bat into one of those positions....I feel pretty good about their offense.  If not....they might be a little anemic until Cashman can trade one into the clubhouse.    IF they manage the Melky deal to the brewers AND sign a big free agent (Manny or Texiera)....well, if that perfect storm ends up happening...you shouldn't be a "little" worried, you should be downright scared shitless.

[sandman]

Needless to say, as a Sox fan, I'm not scared of the recent acquisitions the Yanks have made.  Bring it!  Are they better?  Yes.  We'll see how much better though.

The Yanks finished exactly 6 games behind Boston, and 8 behind TB.

That's with their rotation crippled by bad decisions regarding young talent, injuries, and instability. 

You SERIOUSLY don't think that CC and Burnett make the Yanks 8 games better than they were last year? 

you sound like Mets fans from last year. only they just needed to be 1 game better (finished one game behind the phils in 2007 and they landed Santana and he delivered). and they got it done - they were exactly 1 game better. unfortunately for the mets, the phils were 3 games better.   

with that said, my guess based on the signings to date is that the Yanks will be about 6 games better. somewhere around 95 wins. should be enough to get them the wildcard. getting rid of abreu is a great move too...that'll help. 

[freedom78]

Needless to say, as a Sox fan, I'm not scared of the recent acquisitions the Yanks have made.  Bring it!  Are they better?  Yes.  We'll see how much better though.

The Yanks finished exactly 6 games behind Boston, and 8 behind TB.

That's with their rotation crippled by bad decisions regarding young talent, injuries, and instability. 

You SERIOUSLY don't think that CC and Burnett make the Yanks 8 games better than they were last year? 

you sound like Mets fans from last year. only they just needed to be 1 game better (finished one game behind the phils in 2007 and they landed Santana and he delivered). and they got it done - they were exactly 1 game better. unfortunately for the mets, the phils were 3 games better.   

with that said, my guess based on the signings to date is that the Yanks will be about 6 games better. somewhere around 95 wins. should be enough to get them the wildcard. getting rid of abreu is a great move too...that'll help. 

Wow.  That's a fucking brutal analysis.  LOVE IT! 

You know...even though I'm a Cubs fan, I'm a little sad to see that CC won't be back with Milwaukee.  I've watched that team build from the bottom up for so many years.  They SUCKED for a while, there, and then there was this period where people would say "hey, they Brewers could be contenders" and everyone would laugh and they'd finish in the middle-bottom of the division, and then there was a period when you said "hey, the Brewers could be contenders" and fans in Chicago and STL looked around nervously.  Seriously, with CC all year next year, and that young core (if they could afford it once it's a 25+ core) could contend for a while.  If the Brewers, with all that home grown talent, aren't THE case for a salary cap...well, I don't know what is.     

[faldor]

Pilferk, I'll stick to my guns whether you want to believe me or not, the signings the Yanks have made so far don't scare me.  I still think the Sox are a better overall team, and Tampa as well.  I think all three teams have solid rotations but none is THAT much better than another.  You haven't brought up the fact that Mussina is gone.  Now I'll admit I thought he was garbage going into last season, but he went on to win 20 games.  I don't think you could expect much more than that from CC, so that's pretty much a wash.  You're banking on Burnett, Wang, and Chamberlain to have stellar years.  I don't blame you for thinking that, just as I think Beckett, Lester, Dice K is among the best 1-2-3 punches there is.  Burnett hasn't lived up to the hype, plain and simple.  Has he had a good career so far, yes.  But I've heard so many executives, players, etc. say he has the best stuff in baseball.  He got that 5 year deal with outrageous money on "potential" not his career 3.81 ERA.  I'm not even figuring in his W-L record.  I realize he played on some poor Marlin teams, and also in a pitcher friendly park.  In comparison to Dice K, both pitchers have trouble staying within the strike zone.  But Dice K had FAR BETTER #'s last year.  2.90 ERA, 1.32 WHIP.  As for him slipping down the stretch in September he had a 3.33 ERA and a 1.30 WHIP.  He had ONE bad month in June which he only had 2 starts and got hurt in one of them.  Burnett had an ERA of over a run higher than him.  I'm not sure if he was on the Sox, their defense alone would've dropped his ERA from 4.07 to 2.90, that's a bit of a stretch.  And yes I know you'll argue that Dice K wasn't that good 2 years ago.  That was his first season in America.  I'd think that'd be a bit of a culture shock and would understand the need for adjustment.  I'd put more stock into last season, than his first.

The only thing we agree on is I WOULD be worried if the Yankees signed either Texeira or (gulp) Manny.  But until then I'll stack up the Sox current roster against the Yankees all day long.  I think the pitching staffs match up pretty evenly and I think the Sox have a deeper and more consistent lineup than the Yanks.  Now you can say I'm delusional if you'd like, I'm not saying the Yankees are a bad team because of their recent signings.  I'm just saying I still think the Sox AND Rays are better.  Then again, what kind of fan would I be if I thought otherwise?  And the same goes for you too, obviously you SHOULD be excited about CC and AJ, and you SHOULD think that could put them over the top.  That's what being a fan is all about.

I wouldn't call it delusional though.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I haven't been scared of the Yankees acquisitions either.

The desperation they have displayed is so funny.  What happened to that excellent farm system Yankees fans have been throwing at us?  There aren't any home-grown Yankees on that squad.  (Not literally, but don't give me a list of players who aren't going to end up playing in the Bronx.)

They won't win the division.

[faldor]

And as for Sabathia being CLEARLY better than Beckett and CLEARLY more deserving of the Cy Young.  I'm not so sure about that.  Their numbers are quite similar.

Sabathia - GS-34, 19-7, CG-4, SO-1, IP-241, H-238, HR-20, BB-37, K-209, ERA-3.21, WHIP-1.14, BA-.259
Beckett   - GS-30, 20-7, CG-1, SO-0. IP-201, H-189, HR-17, BB-40, K-194, ERA-3.27, WHIP-1.14, BA-.245


So Sabathia did have more starts and pitched more innings, BUT Beckett had one more win in 4 less starts and the Sox and Indians won the same amount of games that year.  Sabathia gave up more hits per inning but Beckett walked more.  Beckett had more K's/9 and had a better BA against.  Looks pretty even to me.  My tiebreaker would've been the fact that Beckett was a 20 game winner that year.  Sounds better for the Cy Young winner to be a 20 game winner.

And for as "bad" a season Beckett had last year, if you look at the numbers it really wasn't THAT bad.  Better than Burnett, aside from the record.  He was 12-10 with a 4.03 ERA and 1.19 WHIP.

[pilferk]

I haven't been scared of the Yankees acquisitions either.

The desperation they have displayed is so funny.  What happened to that excellent farm system Yankees fans have been throwing at us?  There aren't any home-grown Yankees on that squad.  (Not literally, but don't give me a list of players who aren't going to end up playing in the Bronx.)

They won't win the division.

What have they given up from their farm system to aquire Sabathia and Burnett?  Nothing.

So they managed to get better AND not give up anything, from a player talent persepective, to get it.   They STILL have an excellent farm system.  Witness Joba.  But an excellent farm system, when the "excellent" part is in it's early 20's, doesn't necessarily translate into wins TODAY.  They've now managed to do a pretty good job of securing today, while not mortgaging tomorrow.  That seems to be pretty much in line with Cashmans plan.

And yes, I realize that everyone who is not a Yanks fan HATES them, and can't really view anything they do objectively.  I don't expect people too.  But those saying the Yanks will be 3rd this year, or don't have a shot at the division, or aren't better than they were last year.....they're letting their lack of objectivity cloud their reason.  In practice....they might fall flat on their faces.  But, on paper (and I agree...nobody wins championships on paper), if you're not worried, you're just not being honest with yourself.  You can argue otherwise, but I gotta be honest:  You don't look real rational when you do.