2008 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[cotis]

Yanks apparently offered CC a huge contract, bigger than Johan's last year.

CC a Yankee before Thanksgiving?

[D]

I think the Yanks are STUPID

Did they not pay attention to how shitty CC was for Cleveland last year in the AL? The only reason he did so great was because he went to the watered down NL and those hitters weren't use to him.

HUGE mistake to give that guy 140 million over 6 years.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Sign with the Yankees, please!

Steinbrenner has to go bankrupt sometime, right?

Right? 

[freedom78]

I think the Yanks are STUPID

Did they not pay attention to how shitty CC was for Cleveland last year in the AL? The only reason he did so great was because he went to the watered down NL and those hitters weren't use to him.

HUGE mistake to give that guy 140 million over 6 years.

The watered down NL....that produced a World Series Champion? 

DITCH THE DH!  If you can't catch the fuckin' ball, you shouldn't be allowed to hit it!

[D]

NL is watered down

U had the Phillies and Cubs..................

Mets were ok but inconsistent

most of the NL though sucks.


Plus facing batters for the first time gives u a huge advantage.

in the AL he was horrible last year.

[freedom78]

NL is watered down

U had the Phillies and Cubs..................

Mets were ok but inconsistent

most of the NL though sucks.


Plus facing batters for the first time gives u a huge advantage.

in the AL he was horrible last year.

If it's "watered down" it's only because one league has the DH.  Might as well force one league to have a salary cap!  AL teams can blow all their bench money on one guy, knowing their rules have effectively destroyed the strategy of the game and the other low-rent players on the bench aren't likely to get in the game on a given night. 

Anyway, Sabathia wasn't horrible in the AL...he was 6-8 (after starting 1-5).  Certainly not good, but starting to pick up steam when he got traded.  Of course, NYY will still overpay...that's not in dispute at all.  But he's still a great pitcher. 

[D]

Yeah but 6-8 isnt worth 23 million a year.

Id say fuck the pitching, give that money to Manny Ramirez and bat him behind A Rod. Sign Derrick Lowe and AJ Burnett To put with Chamberlain, Wang and Hughes.


Imagine the lineup of

1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. A Rod
4. Manny
5. Matsui
6. Cano
7. Posada
8. Swisher
9. whoever is in right....

[freedom78]

Yeah but 6-8 isnt worth 23 million a year.

Id say fuck the pitching, give that money to Manny Ramirez and bat him behind A Rod. Sign Derrick Lowe and AJ Burnett To put with Chamberlain, Wang and Hughes.


Imagine the lineup of

1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. A Rod
4. Manny
5. Matsui
6. Cano
7. Posada
8. Swisher
9. whoever is in right....

No, 6-8 isn't worth that.  But he'd have been better than 6-8 on the Yanks, and he was 11-2 on the Brewers.  So we're really talking about 17-10.  Write it off as "watered down NL" if you want, but it's common for someone to have a poor first half and a great second (or vice versa).  If the Yanks can get a guy who'll win 17 games for them...well, what team wouldn't want that?

[cotis]

Yeah but 6-8 isnt worth 23 million a year.

Id say fuck the pitching, give that money to Manny Ramirez and bat him behind A Rod. Sign Derrick Lowe and AJ Burnett To put with Chamberlain, Wang and Hughes.


Imagine the lineup of

1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. A Rod
4. Manny
5. Matsui
6. Cano
7. Posada
8. Swisher
9. whoever is in right....

X-Man! Xavier Nady.


If I were in control, scary thought I know, I'd sign CC, Pettitte & Tex and look to trade either Damon/Matsui. Damon likely has more trade value, so we'd eat Hideki's contract if we could even pry a deal out of someone. Pettitte will sign for less money, and still eat 200 innings.

Rotation
CC Sabathia
Chein-Ming Wang
Joba Chamberlain
Andy Pettitte
Moose/Hughes/Etc.

Lineup
Damon DH
Jeter SS
Tex 1B
A-Rod 3B
Swisher LF
Nady RF
Cano 2B
Posada C
Melky/Gardner CF

I like Swisher in the corner, let Gardner showcase his speed in center.


If only, if only....

[D]

Nady! I knew they had someone big. he was on my fantasy team...


Texeira would be a great pickup for them, kind of a throw back to Tino Martinez. great d, great hitting, power


Where is Matsui? did they not resign him or did u oversight it?


Damon DH
Jeter SS
Tex 1B
A Rod 3B
Matsui LF
Cano 2B
Nady RF
Posada
Melky or maybe another FA?

[cotis]

I said that they should look to deal him, though we'd have to eat his contract.

About Matsui in LF, I don't think he'd be too great out there with two bad knees. Though his arm is better, I'd take Damon over him in LF any day.

[pilferk]

Sign with the Yankees, please!

Steinbrenner has to go bankrupt sometime, right?

Right? 

Heh heh...nope.

You gotta understand..the Yankess organization makes a TON of money.  They don't even really "feel" the player salaries.  When you own the Yes network, have huge endorsement deals, sell out almost every game at exhorbitant (comparitively) ticket prices, and make more in merchandise than just about any other team brand in sports......you can afford to overpay to get your guy, if you really want him.

And that's what they're doing.  They're offering money no other team can afford, really, because they want him BADLY.    And they know that

1) They have some ground to make up because he wants to go west coast
2) With that kind of offer, the UNION will get involved and press CC to take the $$
3) The other PLAYERS will get involved and press CC to take the $$

It's not a bad strategy.

And to the point about CC in Cleveland:

He was 6-8...with a 3.83 ERA on a team that STUNK while he was there.  His stats were generally RIGHT around his career stats.

Then he went to the Brewers, who were contending for a playoff spot.  He had motivation...and he delievered in spades

Who knows how the guy will respond in NYC, under the glare of the press there.  Other pitchers (Randy Johnson!) have folded like cheap suits.  But he's certainly worth a shot. 

[pilferk]

NL is watered down

U had the Phillies and Cubs..................

Mets were ok but inconsistent

most of the NL though sucks.


Plus facing batters for the first time gives u a huge advantage.

in the AL he was horrible last year.

6-8 isn't horrible on a team that sucks.

Look at his actual stats.  They weren't amazingly outrageously unreal.  But a 3.83 ERA with 120 strike outs and 30 walks in 18 starts for Cleveland isn't horrible.  And look even closer at them.  He had ONE bad month...April...where he was 1-4 with a 7.76 ERA.  After April, his ERA was hovering around, or under 2.00 for the rest of the year.  He got markedly better as the year went on...and not JUST after he moved over to the NL.  The guy had a rocky start, that's for sure.  But to say he was "horrible" because he had one bad month is, maybe, a little unfair...dontcha think?

[pilferk]

Yeah but 6-8 isnt worth 23 million a year.

Id say fuck the pitching, give that money to Manny Ramirez and bat him behind A Rod. Sign Derrick Lowe and AJ Burnett To put with Chamberlain, Wang and Hughes.


Imagine the lineup of

1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. A Rod
4. Manny
5. Matsui
6. Cano
7. Posada
8. Swisher
9. whoever is in right....

I don't want Manny anywhere near the Yanks.  I know...it sounds dumb to say you don't want one of the best hitters in the league on your team, but.....I don't.

I'd prefer they pick up Texiera, and let Swisher play backup.  They won't, though.  They've made it pretty clear they're spending this season on pitching, not position players.  I can't say I blame them.

[faldor]

Yeah but 6-8 isnt worth 23 million a year.

Id say fuck the pitching, give that money to Manny Ramirez and bat him behind A Rod. Sign Derrick Lowe and AJ Burnett To put with Chamberlain, Wang and Hughes.


Imagine the lineup of

1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. A Rod
4. Manny
5. Matsui
6. Cano
7. Posada
8. Swisher
9. whoever is in right....

I don't want Manny anywhere near the Yanks.  I know...it sounds dumb to say you don't want one of the best hitters in the league on your team, but.....I don't.

I'd prefer they pick up Texiera, and let Swisher play backup.  They won't, though.  They've made it pretty clear they're spending this season on pitching, not position players.  I can't say I blame them.

I think the Yanks could use help offensively.  Their offense WAS a problem last year.  Granted they had injuries but most of their position players had down years.  Was that an aberration?  Can you expect them ALL to bounce back?  They aren't getting any younger.  As a Sox fan, I hope they don't go after Tex (hopefully he'll sign with Boston) or any added offensive help.  CC's a great pitcher, but has broken down the past couple years because of overuse.  He's a horse, but the Indians and Brewers have taken advantage of that the last 2 seasons and it's negatively effected him.  I think the Yankees would be smart enough to avoid doing that.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Sign with the Yankees, please!

Steinbrenner has to go bankrupt sometime, right?

Right? 

Heh heh...nope.

You gotta understand..the Yankess organization makes a TON of money.  They don't even really "feel" the player salaries.  When you own the Yes network, have huge endorsement deals, sell out almost every game at exhorbitant (comparitively) ticket prices, and make more in merchandise than just about any other team brand in sports......you can afford to overpay to get your guy, if you really want him.

Sorry, I've been spoiled by an owner who made a career out of parking cars and making bad business decisions who still hasn't paid off News Corp completely.

[Jbat81]

I think the Yanks are STUPID

Did they not pay attention to how shitty CC was for Cleveland last year in the AL? The only reason he did so great was because he went to the watered down NL and those hitters weren't use to him.

HUGE mistake to give that guy 140 million over 6 years.

Im a huge Yankees fan and I agree wit you 100%!!! I rather them trade, or try, for Peavy. IMO hes a "Better" pitcher then CC.... To offer him Santana money its stupid! He's not even as good as Santana! To me Santana is the best in the game..period! Yankees let him get away...dumb move.
Jbat

[faldor]

I think the Yanks are STUPID

Did they not pay attention to how shitty CC was for Cleveland last year in the AL? The only reason he did so great was because he went to the watered down NL and those hitters weren't use to him.

HUGE mistake to give that guy 140 million over 6 years.

Im a huge Yankees fan and I agree wit you 100%!!! I rather them trade, or try, for Peavy. IMO hes a "Better" pitcher then CC.... To offer him Santana money its stupid! He's not even as good as Santana! To me Santana is the best in the game..period! Yankees let him get away...dumb move.
Jbat

It doesn't seem like CC WANTS to go to the Yankees.  I mean, it's pretty apparent he's not going to get a better offer yet he still hasn't signed.  It appears he'd rather pitch in the NL and/or on the west coast. 

[tim_m]

Yeah his preference seems to be the NL. Not that i blame him i think he'll be more successful there.

[Jbat81]

Thats exatcly right. He rathes stay in the NL... IMO easier league. CC likes to hit also, so thats another reason. He wouldve taken the offer by now. Dont want anyways...I do hope they sign Abreu, the guy does it all IMO. What do u guys think?
Jbat