2008 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[tim_m]

I never thought I would say this, being that the only team I hate more than the Yankees are the Gayants.

But the Red Sox and their players and fans have gotten to my last nerve.

Congratulations on being the new Yankees.

 

I wouldn't blame the Red Sox solely.  And I guess I'd be grouped in here since I'm a Sox fan.  But it's a culture now since ALL the sports teams in Boston are winning.  You are right to a point though.  I'm a more subdued fan and don't brag about how good my teams are these days.  I know all too well the hard times we suffered through from the late 80's through 2000.  But I guess some fans are making up for lost time and think Boston is the mecca of sports at this time.  It's not gonna last forever, we've got to enjoy it while it lasts.

Nobody likes a winner outside of the fans of that team.  That's why the Patriots are the most hated NFL team.  People started calling them the new Yankees years ago, although they haven't won a Super Bowl in 4 years now. 

Just out of curiosity, what players on the Sox do you not care for?  I can understand Papelbon.  Coco Crisp acted like a bit of a punk in that brawl with the Rays.  Schilling rubs a lot of people the wrong way.  Aside from that though, I can't see how anyone could dislike the guys despite the fact that they're good and they win.

This is where I'm coming from.

During 2003 and 2004, I always rooted for the Sox to beat the Yanks.  Not only to break the curse, because the team was primarily composed of decent, humble guys who wanted to win.  There was little to no drama.  I had respect for those guys.

Remember when Varitek completely owned that overpaid piece of shit?



Damn, I thought that was the shit!

Nowadays, the whole team comes off like they are a bunch of spoiled brats.

Manny was always Manny.  But the way everyone else carries themselves.  If Schilling was a nobody, I could care less.  But he's one of the faces of the franchise, so he automatically paints Boston in a negative light when he opens his fat yapper. 

Dugout brawls, incidents behind "closed doors" that get out in the news anyway...overexposure.

I'm happy that the legally blind pitcher got his no-hitter.

But do I still need to hear about it? 

The Sox are the new Evil Empire.  Their farm system is a mess.  The Sox are buying players much like the Yankees used to.

I'll accept everything you said, EXCEPT that their farm system is a mess.  That couldn't be farther from the truth.  They have rebuilty their farm system to be quite formidable.  I won't say it's among the best, but they've got plenty of bullets in the chamber so to speak.  They've got Paplebon, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Delcarmen, Hansen, Lowrie, Moss just to name a few that have given them major to minor contributions in recent years.  Granted they're helped a great deal by the amount of money they're able to spend on free agents and such, but to say that they solely buy their players is completely incorrect.  The core of their team is homegrown or through trades aside from Manny and Ortiz (who they grabbed on the bargain bin of free agency a couple years ago.) 

I'll accept you hating the Red Sox, but you're gonna have to give me a better reason than that.  That they BUY their championships.  Hey, you can spend all the money you want, that doesn't guarantee a championship.  Ask the Yankees about that.  I know what you're trying to get at, but it's not completely true.  Do the Sox have a bloated payroll?  Absolutely.  But that doesn't guarantee success and they have set themselves up for the FUTURE as they haven't gone dependent on overpaid veterans.

Gotta agree with you on this one. They do have a pretty damn good farm system. Definitely not the best maybe not even better then the yankees. Never thought i'd be able to say that lol. But to say the sox farm is shit and they have bought all their players is completely incorrect.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I never thought I would say this, being that the only team I hate more than the Yankees are the Gayants.

But the Red Sox and their players and fans have gotten to my last nerve.

Congratulations on being the new Yankees.

 

I wouldn't blame the Red Sox solely.  And I guess I'd be grouped in here since I'm a Sox fan.  But it's a culture now since ALL the sports teams in Boston are winning.  You are right to a point though.  I'm a more subdued fan and don't brag about how good my teams are these days.  I know all too well the hard times we suffered through from the late 80's through 2000.  But I guess some fans are making up for lost time and think Boston is the mecca of sports at this time.  It's not gonna last forever, we've got to enjoy it while it lasts.

Nobody likes a winner outside of the fans of that team.  That's why the Patriots are the most hated NFL team.  People started calling them the new Yankees years ago, although they haven't won a Super Bowl in 4 years now. 

Just out of curiosity, what players on the Sox do you not care for?  I can understand Papelbon.  Coco Crisp acted like a bit of a punk in that brawl with the Rays.  Schilling rubs a lot of people the wrong way.  Aside from that though, I can't see how anyone could dislike the guys despite the fact that they're good and they win.

This is where I'm coming from.

During 2003 and 2004, I always rooted for the Sox to beat the Yanks.  Not only to break the curse, because the team was primarily composed of decent, humble guys who wanted to win.  There was little to no drama.  I had respect for those guys.

Remember when Varitek completely owned that overpaid piece of shit?



Damn, I thought that was the shit!

Nowadays, the whole team comes off like they are a bunch of spoiled brats.

Manny was always Manny.  But the way everyone else carries themselves.  If Schilling was a nobody, I could care less.  But he's one of the faces of the franchise, so he automatically paints Boston in a negative light when he opens his fat yapper. 

Dugout brawls, incidents behind "closed doors" that get out in the news anyway...overexposure.

I'm happy that the legally blind pitcher got his no-hitter.

But do I still need to hear about it? 

The Sox are the new Evil Empire.  Their farm system is a mess.  The Sox are buying players much like the Yankees used to.

I'll accept everything you said, EXCEPT that their farm system is a mess.  That couldn't be farther from the truth.  They have rebuilty their farm system to be quite formidable.  I won't say it's among the best, but they've got plenty of bullets in the chamber so to speak.  They've got Paplebon, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Delcarmen, Hansen, Lowrie, Moss just to name a few that have given them major to minor contributions in recent years.  Granted they're helped a great deal by the amount of money they're able to spend on free agents and such, but to say that they solely buy their players is completely incorrect.  The core of their team is homegrown or through trades aside from Manny and Ortiz (who they grabbed on the bargain bin of free agency a couple years ago.) 

I'll accept you hating the Red Sox, but you're gonna have to give me a better reason than that.  That they BUY their championships.  Hey, you can spend all the money you want, that doesn't guarantee a championship.  Ask the Yankees about that.  I know what you're trying to get at, but it's not completely true.  Do the Sox have a bloated payroll?  Absolutely.  But that doesn't guarantee success and they have set themselves up for the FUTURE as they haven't gone dependent on overpaid veterans.

Well just see what happens with the roster in a few years. 

[faldor]

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean, but I forgot to add Lester and Buchholz.  I guess we WILL see what happens in a few years.  I can't wait!  Maybe you know something I don't.  Feel free to fill me in.

[cotis]

Joba pitched a gem tonight, and the Yanks acquired Damaso Marte (LHP) and Xavier Nady (OF). Good day for a Yankee fan like me! We get the lefty reliever we have needed since Stanton left, and a corner OF that'll give some pop against lefties and provide some time off for Abreu/Damon if needed!

[freedom78]

Just got back from what is likely my last trip to Wrigley, this year. 

Damn you, winter! 

[faldor]

Joba pitched a gem tonight, and the Yanks acquired Damaso Marte (LHP) and Xavier Nady (OF). Good day for a Yankee fan like me! We get the lefty reliever we have needed since Stanton left, and a corner OF that'll give some pop against lefties and provide some time off for Abreu/Damon if needed!

Hey, what's with Joba and his apparent hatred for Youkilis?  I mean, I think it's obvious by now that there's something there.  What did Kevin ever do to Joba or the Yankees?  I'm surprised the Sox haven't retaliated yet, it's getting ridiculous.  It'd be one thing if it was spread out, but for ONE guy to throw at the SAME guy FOUR times in less than a year, come on now. 

Damnit, the Yanks got Marte?  I've got a strict NO YANKEE rule on my fantasy teams and I have Marte on one of them.  The first time I've ever been faced with this challenge.  I might have to just drop his sorry ass now that he's joined the evil empire.  (My league counts holds by the way, so Damaso was somewhat valuable).

Seriously though, F Joba.  He's trying to play the part of Pedro back when he was with the Sox and would plunk any Yankee at the drop of a hat.  He doesn't have the tenure to account for throwing at ONE guy repeatedly.  He deserves a serious beatdown.

[tim_m]

Joba pitched a gem tonight, and the Yanks acquired Damaso Marte (LHP) and Xavier Nady (OF). Good day for a Yankee fan like me! We get the lefty reliever we have needed since Stanton left, and a corner OF that'll give some pop against lefties and provide some time off for Abreu/Damon if needed!

Hey, what's with Joba and his apparent hatred for Youkilis?  I mean, I think it's obvious by now that there's something there.  What did Kevin ever do to Joba or the Yankees?  I'm surprised the Sox haven't retaliated yet, it's getting ridiculous.  It'd be one thing if it was spread out, but for ONE guy to throw at the SAME guy FOUR times in less than a year, come on now. 

Damnit, the Yanks got Marte?  I've got a strict NO YANKEE rule on my fantasy teams and I have Marte on one of them.  The first time I've ever been faced with this challenge.  I might have to just drop his sorry ass now that he's joined the evil empire.  (My league counts holds by the way, so Damaso was somewhat valuable).

Seriously though, F Joba.  He's trying to play the part of Pedro back when he was with the Sox and would plunk any Yankee at the drop of a hat.  He doesn't have the tenure to account for throwing at ONE guy repeatedly.  He deserves a serious beatdown.

I don't know why he's going after Youk but there has to be something there like you said. Maybe but the sox are the ones that got the beatdown by him and badly. He owned the sox the whole game and out pitched your ace.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Joba pitched a gem tonight, and the Yanks acquired Damaso Marte (LHP) and Xavier Nady (OF). Good day for a Yankee fan like me! We get the lefty reliever we have needed since Stanton left, and a corner OF that'll give some pop against lefties and provide some time off for Abreu/Damon if needed!

Hey, what's with Joba and his apparent hatred for Youkilis?  I mean, I think it's obvious by now that there's something there.  What did Kevin ever do to Joba or the Yankees?  I'm surprised the Sox haven't retaliated yet, it's getting ridiculous.  It'd be one thing if it was spread out, but for ONE guy to throw at the SAME guy FOUR times in less than a year, come on now. 

Damnit, the Yanks got Marte?  I've got a strict NO YANKEE rule on my fantasy teams and I have Marte on one of them.  The first time I've ever been faced with this challenge.  I might have to just drop his sorry ass now that he's joined the evil empire.  (My league counts holds by the way, so Damaso was somewhat valuable).

Seriously though, F Joba.  He's trying to play the part of Pedro back when he was with the Sox and would plunk any Yankee at the drop of a hat.  He doesn't have the tenure to account for throwing at ONE guy repeatedly.  He deserves a serious beatdown.

Boo hoo boo hoo.

What goes around, comes around.

[cotis]

Joba pitched a gem tonight, and the Yanks acquired Damaso Marte (LHP) and Xavier Nady (OF). Good day for a Yankee fan like me! We get the lefty reliever we have needed since Stanton left, and a corner OF that'll give some pop against lefties and provide some time off for Abreu/Damon if needed!

Hey, what's with Joba and his apparent hatred for Youkilis?  I mean, I think it's obvious by now that there's something there.  What did Kevin ever do to Joba or the Yankees?  I'm surprised the Sox haven't retaliated yet, it's getting ridiculous.  It'd be one thing if it was spread out, but for ONE guy to throw at the SAME guy FOUR times in less than a year, come on now. 

Damnit, the Yanks got Marte?  I've got a strict NO YANKEE rule on my fantasy teams and I have Marte on one of them.  The first time I've ever been faced with this challenge.  I might have to just drop his sorry ass now that he's joined the evil empire.  (My league counts holds by the way, so Damaso was somewhat valuable).

Seriously though, F Joba.  He's trying to play the part of Pedro back when he was with the Sox and would plunk any Yankee at the drop of a hat.  He doesn't have the tenure to account for throwing at ONE guy repeatedly.  He deserves a serious beatdown.

Maybe's it is like how Pedro used to be? I seem to remember him plunking Jeter about everytime he got hte chance back in the day? Maybe Joba feels he needs to solidify his spot in the rivalry (pitching a gem MIGHT add to it ). He probably just wants to send a message and Youk is his choice? 

[faldor]

Joba pitched a gem tonight, and the Yanks acquired Damaso Marte (LHP) and Xavier Nady (OF). Good day for a Yankee fan like me! We get the lefty reliever we have needed since Stanton left, and a corner OF that'll give some pop against lefties and provide some time off for Abreu/Damon if needed!

Hey, what's with Joba and his apparent hatred for Youkilis?  I mean, I think it's obvious by now that there's something there.  What did Kevin ever do to Joba or the Yankees?  I'm surprised the Sox haven't retaliated yet, it's getting ridiculous.  It'd be one thing if it was spread out, but for ONE guy to throw at the SAME guy FOUR times in less than a year, come on now. 

Damnit, the Yanks got Marte?  I've got a strict NO YANKEE rule on my fantasy teams and I have Marte on one of them.  The first time I've ever been faced with this challenge.  I might have to just drop his sorry ass now that he's joined the evil empire.  (My league counts holds by the way, so Damaso was somewhat valuable).

Seriously though, F Joba.  He's trying to play the part of Pedro back when he was with the Sox and would plunk any Yankee at the drop of a hat.  He doesn't have the tenure to account for throwing at ONE guy repeatedly.  He deserves a serious beatdown.

Boo hoo boo hoo.

What goes around, comes around.

Hey I'm not looking for any sympathy Archie, just posing the question.  Whatever Youk has done in the past, there's NO reason to throw at a guy's head four times.  That's dangerous.

And Timothy, you're right.  Aside from that one pitch that somehow got away from Joba, he was great last night.  That move has really paid off for the Yanks.  The bullpen has actually been real solid since his departure and obviously the rotation has improved.  If he continues to pitch anywhere near that level, he will be your ace real soon.  Pettitte and Mussina are crafty veterans and big game pitchers, but they are much more hittable and don't have the electric stuff that Joba has.  I was hoping he'd fail as a starter but it looks like that's not gonna happen.  Seriously though, stop throwing at Youkilis' head, uncalled for.

[faldor]

Joba pitched a gem tonight, and the Yanks acquired Damaso Marte (LHP) and Xavier Nady (OF). Good day for a Yankee fan like me! We get the lefty reliever we have needed since Stanton left, and a corner OF that'll give some pop against lefties and provide some time off for Abreu/Damon if needed!

Hey, what's with Joba and his apparent hatred for Youkilis?  I mean, I think it's obvious by now that there's something there.  What did Kevin ever do to Joba or the Yankees?  I'm surprised the Sox haven't retaliated yet, it's getting ridiculous.  It'd be one thing if it was spread out, but for ONE guy to throw at the SAME guy FOUR times in less than a year, come on now. 

Damnit, the Yanks got Marte?  I've got a strict NO YANKEE rule on my fantasy teams and I have Marte on one of them.  The first time I've ever been faced with this challenge.  I might have to just drop his sorry ass now that he's joined the evil empire.  (My league counts holds by the way, so Damaso was somewhat valuable).

Seriously though, F Joba.  He's trying to play the part of Pedro back when he was with the Sox and would plunk any Yankee at the drop of a hat.  He doesn't have the tenure to account for throwing at ONE guy repeatedly.  He deserves a serious beatdown.

Maybe's it is like how Pedro used to be? I seem to remember him plunking Jeter about everytime he got hte chance back in the day? Maybe Joba feels he needs to solidify his spot in the rivalry (pitching a gem MIGHT add to it ). He probably just wants to send a message and Youk is his choice? 

Hey I have no problem with that, and agree that's what he's trying to do.  But don't throw at a guys head.  That's all I'm saying.  Youk dives over the plate much like Jeter so I understand having to pitch inside.  I don't remember Pedro ever throwing at Jeter's head 4 times in less than a year.  If you can prove me wrong fine, but I don't think that ever happened.

[cotis]

I remember a game, I'll look it up later as I'm heading out, but I remember getting hit in the hands (up and in) by Pedro TWICE in one game. He had to leave and get X-Rays I remember, I also believe Pedro beaned a few other Yanks. IIRC, Moose was pitching against Pedro and everyone was waiting for him to retaliate, and he never did.

[cotis]

http://www.yankeenumbers.com/classicsview.asp?cls_ID=0

Hit Jeter and Soriano. That's the game I was thinking about..

[faldor]

http://www.yankeenumbers.com/classicsview.asp?cls_ID=0

Hit Jeter and Soriano. That's the game I was thinking about..

Yeah I remember that game.  He was throwing up and in as both Jeter and Soriano dive into pitches.  It wasn't quite at their heads, or over their heads though.  Dangerous nonetheless.  Knocked both guys out of the game in the first inning if I remember correctly.  Yanks probably still won the game though, as they always seemed to beat Pedro.

But that still doesn't compare to Joba throwing over Youkilis' head four times.  Youk must've banged his girl or something.  Yanks better watch out today when Wakefield retaliates and plunks someone with his nasty 70 mph fastball.  You've been warned.

[The Dog]

Anyone know if the Pirates got anything in return for Marte and Nady.  By anything in return, I mean decent to quality prospects.  I have a feeling they got the crappier end of the deal.  Nady is going to kick ass for the yankees and Marte is solid.  Those two were probably two of the biggest names being shopped around, Buccos prob should/could have gotten more for them.  But when you lose soon to be 16 season in a row, not really much of a surprise. 

When does football/hockey season start? 

[freedom78]

Anyone know if the Pirates got anything in return for Marte and Nady.  By anything in return, I mean decent to quality prospects.  I have a feeling they got the crappier end of the deal.  Nady is going to kick ass for the yankees and Marte is solid.  Those two were probably two of the biggest names being shopped around, Buccos prob should/could have gotten more for them.  But when you lose soon to be 16 season in a row, not really much of a surprise. 

When does football/hockey season start? 

The Pirates?  I thought they were a NYY farm team! 

Seriously...it must suck to be a Pittsburgh fan.  That team can't be making any money, and I honestly think this whole mid-season sell off philosophy is a bad business model.  Want a jersey?  I don't, since they'll likely trade my favorite players in a month or two.  Want to come to the game?  Why, to see some AAA callups?  No thanks. 

Can you imagine the team that Pittsburgh could have if they didn't constantly trade away their talent?  I don't object to trading away a good player if you get some bona fide prospects.  But at some point they need a GM who'll say "we're keeping our talent, and building for a five year run at October."  But, sadly, the one-year bottom line is more important. 

[cotis]

Anyone know if the Pirates got anything in return for Marte and Nady.  By anything in return, I mean decent to quality prospects.  I have a feeling they got the crappier end of the deal.  Nady is going to kick ass for the yankees and Marte is solid.  Those two were probably two of the biggest names being shopped around, Buccos prob should/could have gotten more for them.  But when you lose soon to be 16 season in a row, not really much of a surprise. 

When does football/hockey season start? 

Tabata is a HIGHLY talented prospect, though he's got a big lack of hustle. Got taken out of two games (I think, might be three) for not running out a groundball, and then not going after a flyball.

Ohlendorf was a reliever for the NYY for awhile this year, he had good stuff but he was usually hit around. He might be better in a low pressure environment like Pittsburgh.

Karstens had some starts with the big club last year, is recovering from an injury I think. He wasn't too special, average prospect.

McCutchen, I've personally heard little about. Here's a link to some info on him though: http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/2008/02/06/11-daniel-mccutchen/

Looks like it was a deal of 3 average prospects, 1 highly talented, yet lazy prospect for a good LHP arm in the pen and a good corner OF.

Yankees got a steal with this one, IMO.

[tim_m]

Joba pitched a gem tonight, and the Yanks acquired Damaso Marte (LHP) and Xavier Nady (OF). Good day for a Yankee fan like me! We get the lefty reliever we have needed since Stanton left, and a corner OF that'll give some pop against lefties and provide some time off for Abreu/Damon if needed!

Hey, what's with Joba and his apparent hatred for Youkilis?  I mean, I think it's obvious by now that there's something there.  What did Kevin ever do to Joba or the Yankees?  I'm surprised the Sox haven't retaliated yet, it's getting ridiculous.  It'd be one thing if it was spread out, but for ONE guy to throw at the SAME guy FOUR times in less than a year, come on now. 

Damnit, the Yanks got Marte?  I've got a strict NO YANKEE rule on my fantasy teams and I have Marte on one of them.  The first time I've ever been faced with this challenge.  I might have to just drop his sorry ass now that he's joined the evil empire.  (My league counts holds by the way, so Damaso was somewhat valuable).

Seriously though, F Joba.  He's trying to play the part of Pedro back when he was with the Sox and would plunk any Yankee at the drop of a hat.  He doesn't have the tenure to account for throwing at ONE guy repeatedly.  He deserves a serious beatdown.

Boo hoo boo hoo.

What goes around, comes around.

Hey I'm not looking for any sympathy Archie, just posing the question.  Whatever Youk has done in the past, there's NO reason to throw at a guy's head four times.  That's dangerous.

And Timothy, you're right.  Aside from that one pitch that somehow got away from Joba, he was great last night.  That move has really paid off for the Yanks.  The bullpen has actually been real solid since his departure and obviously the rotation has improved.  If he continues to pitch anywhere near that level, he will be your ace real soon.  Pettitte and Mussina are crafty veterans and big game pitchers, but they are much more hittable and don't have the electric stuff that Joba has.  I was hoping he'd fail as a starter but it looks like that's not gonna happen.  Seriously though, stop throwing at Youkilis' head, uncalled for.

Yeah as he gets more starts he just seems to be getting better as he gets more comfortable which is great for the yanks and bad for anyone else in the league. Pettitte and Moose have been really solid Moose more so then Pettitte. I am surprised but very happy with how Moose has pitched, honestly the way Moose has pitched he could finally get that 20 wins. He's lost just 3 times since april if that trend continues he will win 7 of his last 11 starts at least and get to 20. The bullpen has been great. I found this tidbit about it. Entering this weekend's series at Fenway, Yankees relievers have an impressive 1.71 ERA over their past 22 games dating back to June 27, the second game of a doubleheader against the Mets. The club's bullpen ERA is 3.39 overall, the sixth best in the Majors. Among those carrying the load are Edwar Ramirez, retiring 32 of his last 36 batters, and fellow righty Kyle Farnsworth, who has posted 10 straight scoreless outings entering this weekend.

[cotis]

http://www.yankeenumbers.com/classicsview.asp?cls_ID=0

Hit Jeter and Soriano. That's the game I was thinking about..

Yeah I remember that game.  He was throwing up and in as both Jeter and Soriano dive into pitches.  It wasn't quite at their heads, or over their heads though.  Dangerous nonetheless.  Knocked both guys out of the game in the first inning if I remember correctly.  Yanks probably still won the game though, as they always seemed to beat Pedro.

But that still doesn't compare to Joba throwing over Youkilis' head four times.  Youk must've banged his girl or something.  Yanks better watch out today when Wakefield retaliates and plunks someone with his nasty 70 mph fastball.  You've been warned.

By no means do I think throwing at Youk's head with Joba's kind of fastball is acceptable. No one should ever throw at anyone's head. A little brush back would be perfectly fine, but maybe Joba wants to do a little more? Who really knows. It might've got away from him?

[tim_m]

http://www.yankeenumbers.com/classicsview.asp?cls_ID=0

Hit Jeter and Soriano. That's the game I was thinking about..

Yeah I remember that game.  He was throwing up and in as both Jeter and Soriano dive into pitches.  It wasn't quite at their heads, or over their heads though.  Dangerous nonetheless.  Knocked both guys out of the game in the first inning if I remember correctly.  Yanks probably still won the game though, as they always seemed to beat Pedro.

But that still doesn't compare to Joba throwing over Youkilis' head four times.  Youk must've banged his girl or something.  Yanks better watch out today when Wakefield retaliates and plunks someone with his nasty 70 mph fastball.  You've been warned.

By no means do I think throwing at Youk's head with Joba's kind of fastball is acceptable. No one should ever throw at anyone's head. A little brush back would be perfectly fine, but maybe Joba wants to do a little more? Who really knows. It might've got away from him?

I just can't see him trying to hit the leadoff man in a 1 run game. It makes no sense at all.