2008 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[freedom78]

Also, anyone think they should move Houston to the Al WEst?

Makes sense... all have 5 teams but the NL Central and Al West... dumb

Total agreement!  The NL Central needs to shed a team, and since that team goes west, it can't be Pittsburgh, Cincy, Chicago, STL, or Milwaukee. 

Or, if they didn't do that, they could move Houston to the NL West, and one of those teams to the AL.

It can't be LAD, both for historical and cross-town reasons.  But Arizona isn't that old a team...people wouldn't be THAT offended by them moving to the AL.

[C0ma]

So Griffey hit 600...

Where does everyone think this places him in the History of the Game, and where do you think he falls in his generation?

[pilferk]

So Griffey hit 600...

Where does everyone think this places him in the History of the Game, and where do you think he falls in his generation?

He's certainly a sure fire 1st ballot HOF'er.

I would say that, in his prime, he was the greatest player of his generation.  Bonds would have been first, but it's tough for me to give him the nod over Griffey, all things considered.  He's certainly, IMHO, the most complete player of his generation, in his prime.  Power, speed, average and defense. 

But injuries REALLY marked Griffey's career.....to think what might have been if he'd stayed healthy is just unreal.  Even being hurt, his career numbers are impressive, both offensively and defensively.  And he's no longer playing, really, in "his generation".  THIS generation, so far, is A-rod's.

[C0ma]

So Griffey hit 600...

Where does everyone think this places him in the History of the Game, and where do you think he falls in his generation?

He's certainly a sure fire 1st ballot HOF'er.

I would say that, in his prime, he was the greatest player of his generation.  Bonds would have been first, but it's tough for me to give him the nod over Griffey, all things considered.  He's certainly, IMHO, the most complete player of his generation, in his prime.  Power, speed, average and defense. 

But injuries REALLY marked Griffey's career.....to think what might have been if he'd stayed healthy is just unreal.  Even being hurt, his career numbers are impressive, both offensively and defensively.  And he's no longer playing, really, in "his generation".  THIS generation, so far, is A-rod's.

I'd agree with that 100%... the thing that I find amazing is how both of those players (Jr. and ARod) emerged from the Seattle Farm System within 5-6 years of each other.

[freedom78]

So Griffey hit 600...

Where does everyone think this places him in the History of the Game, and where do you think he falls in his generation?

He's certainly a sure fire 1st ballot HOF'er.

I would say that, in his prime, he was the greatest player of his generation.  Bonds would have been first, but it's tough for me to give him the nod over Griffey, all things considered.  He's certainly, IMHO, the most complete player of his generation, in his prime.  Power, speed, average and defense. 

But injuries REALLY marked Griffey's career.....to think what might have been if he'd stayed healthy is just unreal.  Even being hurt, his career numbers are impressive, both offensively and defensively.  And he's no longer playing, really, in "his generation".  THIS generation, so far, is A-rod's.

I'd agree with that 100%... the thing that I find amazing is how both of those players (Jr. and ARod) emerged from the Seattle Farm System within 5-6 years of each other.

Can you imagine where Seattle would have been with Ichiro, Jr., A-rod, and Randy Johnson...all at the same time?

 

[GeorgeSteele]

Can you imagine where Seattle would have been with Ichiro, Jr., A-rod, and Randy Johnson...all at the same time?

 

In bankruptcy.

Who was the better hitter in their respective primes - Griffey or Frank Thomas? 

[freedom78]

Can you imagine where Seattle would have been with Ichiro, Jr., A-rod, and Randy Johnson...all at the same time?

 

In bankruptcy.

But with a ring!

Then comes the Marlins style fire sale. 

[C0ma]

Who was the better hitter in their respective primes - Griffey or Frank Thomas? 

define their primes? I would say Griffey is 90'-00' what would you call Frank Thomas' prime?

If I were to make a rush decision I would say Frank Thomas was the better overall hitter. If you look at that same 10 year span, he has a higher average with similar power numbers. Griffey would be the better overal player.

[Thorned Rose]

Yeah Griffery Smacked #600

In 3 seasons (his injury prone years) he jackked 41 homers. That is what he gets in one year, but it took him 3. It's safe to say that is Ken Griffey Jr. had never been injured, he would be at #700 this week instead of #600.

In his prime? Griffey. Griffey can hit for contact and power, lately he's been trying to pull everything, no matter what the pitch is.

Jr. is a first ballot HoFer. No questions, and one of the 5 greatest hitters of all time.

[GeorgeSteele]

Who was the better hitter in their respective primes - Griffey or Frank Thomas? 

define their primes? I would say Griffey is 90'-00' what would you call Frank Thomas' prime?

If I were to make a rush decision I would say Frank Thomas was the better overall hitter. If you look at that same 10 year span, he has a higher average with similar power numbers. Griffey would be the better overal player.

Probably the same period.  Tough call, but I would probably agree with you.  Griffey does have the higher HR totals (not by a huge amount), but Thomas' batting avg and on-base % are much higher.  But, yes, Griffey's the better overall player, not even close. 
 

[D]

For whatever reasons, I just cannot watch Baseball anymore.

A few years ago id watch every Braves and Yankees game on TV

I havent sit and watched a full ball game this year.


Ive watched more futbol/Soccer this year than baseball.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Save NY....Free Willie.......

New York Mets Fire Manager Willie Randolph

Tuesday, June 17, 2008




ANAHEIM, Calif.  ?  Willie Randolph is out as manager of the New York Mets, fired 2 1/2 months into a disappointing season that has followed the team's colossal collapse last September.

Bench coach Jerry Manuel takes over on an interim basis for Randolph, who led the Mets to within one win of the 2006 World Series. They got off to a strong start again last year but plummeted down the stretch and have been unable to rebound.

A preseason favorite to win the NL pennant, the $138 million Mets (34-35) had won two in a row when Randolph was let go early Tuesday morning ? making him the first major league manager to get fired this season.

For complete sports coverage, visit FOXSports.com

Pitching coach Rick Peterson and first base coach Tom Nieto also were fired in an enormous overhaul that came at a stunning time ? about two hours after New York's 9-6 victory at the Los Angeles Angels.

Ken Oberkfell, the club's manager at Triple-A New Orleans, and Dan Warthen, pitching coach for the Zephyrs, will join the major league staff along with Luis Aguayo, a Mets field coordinator.

It was a frustrating end for the 53-year-old Randolph, who was set to be an NL coach at the All-Star game at Yankee Stadium next month.

Signed through the 2009 season, Randolph won't be able to move with the Mets into new Citi Field next year, either.

Randolph was known for his exceptionally steady play as a six-time All-Star second baseman and even-keel demeanor as a coach with the Yankees.

Yet Randolph's time in charge of the Mets was marked by highs and lows from the get-go.

Hired by new general manager Omar Minaya to replace Art Howe for the 2005 season, Randolph lost his first five games as a major league manager, then won the next six.

He nearly guided the Mets into the 2006 World Series, losing Game 7 of the NLCS to St. Louis on Yadier Molina's tiebreaking home run in the ninth inning.

The Mets and their fans were convinced 2007 would be their year. Poised for a big run, what followed was one of the biggest collapses in baseball history: Leading the NL East by seven games on Sept. 12, they lost 12 of their last 17 and missed the playoffs as Philadelphia rallied to win the division title.

Several times, Randolph tried to separate last season's failure and this season's struggle.

"I really felt we put last year behind us," he said last month. "Any pressure we feel is because of staying in the mix and not reverting back to last year. I don't sense that at all. No one ever talks about it, no one ever brings it up, so if we are looking a little like we were last year, there's no correlation."

Many Mets watchers, however, felt there was a carry-over effect. Injuries to Pedro Martinez, Moises Alou and Ryan Church, another down year by Carlos Delgado and a sudden slump by closer Billy Wagner didn't help.

With each stretch of inconsistent play, chants of "Fire Willie!" grew louder at Shea Stadium and on New York's sports talk radio station.

Despite a $138 million payroll, the highest in the National League, and the offseason addition of ace pitcher Johan Santana, the Mets never found their groove. Even when things briefly went their way, Randolph caused trouble.

Coming off an uplifting, two-game sweep at Yankee Stadium in mid-May, the first black manager in team history created a stir by suggesting in a newspaper interview that he was portrayed on Mets broadcasts differently than a white manager might be.

Randolph brought up the race issue as he detailed the way he's been shown by SNY, the team's TV network.

"Is it racial?" Randolph was quoted. "Huh? It smells a little bit. ... I don't know how to put my finger on it, but I think there's something there."

A couple of days later, Randolph apologized to Mets ownership, SNY and his players "for the unnecessary distraction" he'd created.

Late last month, Randolph got a temporary reprieve when he met with ownership.

"Willie's job was never in danger going into this meeting," Minaya said after the session. "Willie has my support. He has the support of our ownership. ... There is no limbo period. Willie is the manager."

But no promises for the future were made.

Raised in Brooklyn, Randolph enjoyed many of his favorite and finest moments in the Bronx.

He played for the Yankees from 1976-88 and was a member of two World Series championship teams.

Surrounded by stars Reggie Jackson and Thurman Munson, characters Sparky Lyle and Mickey Rivers and volatile George Steinbrenner and Billy Martin, Randolph merely went about his business. He made for a good fit in pinstripes, and later became a Yankees co-captain.

Randolph batted .276 lifetime ? he got 2,210 hits in 2,202 games ? and never made an error in his 47 postseason appearances.

After finishing his playing career with the Mets in 1992, Randolph served as an assistant GM with the Yankees in 1993. The next year, he moved back onto the field and became their third-base coach, a post he held for 10 seasons.

He was part of the Yankees team that won four World Series titles, and was manager Joe Torre's bench coach in 2004. Before landing the Mets job, Randolph said he interviewed unsuccessfully for 11 or 12 managerial openings.

Randolph had Torre's full backing for the move over to Queens and they remained friends, filming a series of popular local TV commercials together.

Randolph was hired in November 2004 and, boosted by the addition of Carlos Beltran and Martinez, the Mets showed immediate improvement. They went 83-79 in his first year, stopping a slide of three straight dismal seasons.

The Mets did far better the next year, tying the crosstown Yankees for baseball's best regular-season record (97-65) and winning the NL East for the first time since 1988.

Making their first playoff appearance in six years, the Mets swept the Dodgers in the first round despite an injury-depleted pitching staff and went into the NLCS against the Cardinals with high expectations ? those ended in Game 7.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,367823,00.html

[pilferk]

Can you imagine where Seattle would have been with Ichiro, Jr., A-rod, and Randy Johnson...all at the same time?

 

In bankruptcy.

Who was the better hitter in their respective primes - Griffey or Frank Thomas? 

Hitter?

It's close but I'd go with Thomas.

But overall  player?  Griffey.

[pilferk]

Well folks....

This Thursday, for the 1PM game against the Padres, I make my final pilgrimage to THIS incarnation of Yankee Stadium.  It'll be a bitter sweet trip....

Looks like Joba is pitching, which is SWEET.

Anyone from NYC that can recommend a good place for an early lunch and another for dinner that does NOT get overwhelmed by the ball game crowds?

I'm coming in, with a buddy, via MetroNorth to Harlem and 125th and then taking the 4 train to the Stadium....

[pilferk]

Save NY....Free Willie.......

The way they did it was just classless.

I understand all the issues, and I'm not saying they shouldn't have fired him, but.....

To fire the guy AFTER making a 3000 mile trip, AFTER managing one game, and at midnight (3 AM ET) is just pathetic.  All the bullshit about "not firing him on father's day" is a load of crap.   They had a plan, for cripes sake...they could have fired him on Saturday.

Or, not fired him until Monday, but tell the guy not to get on the plane Sunday afternoon, so at least he's with his family and not 3k miles from home when the ax drops.

The Mets "organization" is anything but...

[D]

Truth be told they should've fired Randolph before the season even began.

Take the Red Sox with Grady Little and his Pedro mistake. The guy was fired unfairly but hey, Boston has won 2 titles since.

Randolph was at the helm of one of the biggest collapses in MLB history. U cant bring him back after that.

[russkwtx]

^In fact, after the historic collapse last year, they should have fired him in the offseason and started fresh this year.

And to the Griffey/Thomas debate: Griffey by far was the better hitter in his prime and would have been approaching 700 or more homers if not for injuries. One can't say the same about Thomas.

[tim_m]

Well folks....

This Thursday, for the 1PM game against the Padres, I make my final pilgrimage to THIS incarnation of Yankee Stadium.  It'll be a bitter sweet trip....

Looks like Joba is pitching, which is SWEET.

Anyone from NYC that can recommend a good place for an early lunch and another for dinner that does NOT get overwhelmed by the ball game crowds?

I'm coming in, with a buddy, via MetroNorth to Harlem and 125th and then taking the 4 train to the Stadium....

Have fun i wish i were able to get back to NY this year for a game in the final year of the stadium.

[faldor]

^In fact, after the historic collapse last year, they should have fired him in the offseason and started fresh this year.

And to the Griffey/Thomas debate: Griffey by far was the better hitter in his prime and would have been approaching 700 or more homers if not for injuries. One can't say the same about Thomas.

I think you're forgetting exactly how dominant a hitter The Big Hurt was in his time.  He's had his fair share of injuries over the years too, which have brought his numbers down.  According to www.espn.com the following are their seasonal averages for their respective careers.

Griffey - BA .289 - HR 40 - RBI 115 - R 104 - H 173 - 2B 32 - BB 80 - SO 108 - OBP .373 - SLG .549 - OPS .922
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2148
Thomas BA .302 - HR 37 - RBI 120 - R 105 - H 173 - 2B 35 - BB 117 - SO 97 - OBP .420 - SLG .558 - OPS .978
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2370

You can't get much closer than that.  Obviously Griffey was the better overall player but Thomas was every bit the hitter that Griffey was.  The numbers don't lie.

[C0ma]

^
Those are the Stats I looked at. He bested Griffey in almost every batting statistical category (except HR's). BUT... Griffey did lose a much larger chunk of his career to injuries and because of that had many shortened seasons that included time coming off of injuries which really hurts timing. Timing after all is one of the most important factors in hitting. I think if you take a snap shot of 1990-2000 the numbers are closer in most categories, with Griffey holding a wider HR margin.

But a career is a career and the way they shook out, Big Hurt was the better "overall" hitter.