2008 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[freedom78]

Don't know about anyone else, but my team has pitchers and catchers reporting tomorrow.  Very excited!

[tim_m]

Where does it say anything like that?

All reports say setup man April/May barring any injuries to starters.

Says nothing about staying there till June?

It says..

According to team sources who spoke to the Post, the plan is a response to Chamberlain's prescribed innings limit, reportedly around 140. Beginning the season in the bullpen would allow Chamberlain to limit his innings, though it would also hamper his endurance as a starter. That's why he would head down to the Minors to stretch out his arm in June, before rejoining the Yankees as a member of the rotation.

He would start the year as a reliever, go down to the minors to stretch out his arm (get some innings in as a starter) then come back up later this summer as a starter.

He definitely won't start the year there.

Oops i guess i misread it I'm not sure i really like this plan. Isn't this screwing with the guys preparation too much? I know they are just trying to prevent a recurrance of arm problems but starters and relievers need to have completely different preparation and mentalities. I just worry this could mess him up.

[cotis]

He was a starter all last year in the minors and I think he did alright as a setup man?

I think it'll be an easy transaction. His arm will be fresh from throwing a little amount of innings.

Plus, he's still only 22!

[tim_m]

He was a starter all last year in the minors and I think he did alright as a setup man?

I think it'll be an easy transaction. His arm will be fresh from throwing a little amount of innings.

Plus, he's still only 22!

Oh i agree there definitely. I just worry about this back and forth. First two months as a reliever then send him to the minors for a bit in june to get used to starting then start him the rest of the season. I think he will excel at either reliever or starter. I just want them to pick one or the other and stick to it. How many seasons are they gonna do this reliever/starter thing before they deem his arm strong enough to go a full 200+ inning season.

[cotis]

like I said, he's 22. they don't want him to burn out in his early 30's. they're saving his arm, and when he's ready, he'll start and put up 200+inning seasons. I say this year, if he does turn over to a starter, will be his last year limited innings wise.

[D]

I cant begin to tell u guys how excited I am that Tom Glavine is back with the Braves.

he is my all time fav player and the fact Ill be able to go watch him pitch a few times before he retires makes me very very happy.

[russkwtx]

[/quote]

In my heart of hearts.....I just don't know.  That's it, in a nutshell.  I'm certainly not convinced Clemens is innocent.  I'm also not convinced he's guilty.  We'll see what happens when it goes to Congress and as Clemens defamation lawsuit progresses.  Eventually we'll get answers and I'm content to not really have a strong opinion until we get a prolonged pondering of the evidence.

As for McNamee's motivations...I can only guess.  Blackmail, maybe...though their relationship seemed to be cordial right up until the Mitchell report came out, so, maybe not.  Trying to plea a better deal out of the feds because the names he was giving up were either too few or not "high profile" enough?  Also possible.  But I just don't find the guy, given his past history and demonstrated character, to be very credible.  That's not to say he's not right...just that his word alone isn't enough for me.  I need more evidence....and evidence that's either corroborated by someone more credible or at least not easily manufactured.  Because the ONE thing we're sure of, in all this, is McNamee is a scumbag.

[/quote]

Your post on the medical info was most enlightening. We shall see. But here the point is that once a scumbag, always a scumbag. Scumbags do scumbag-type things. It is hard for "normal" people (on a GNR website?) to get in the head of a real scumbag. So I agree that we don't know enough, but it could be that McNamee was after the "big fish" from the beginning, because if there is one thing that scumbags are good at, it is the ability to understand where the big money and fame might lie, however fanciful that vision might be in reality.

[sandman]

Pettite used HGH in 2004???

wow.

and he said Clemens told him he used HGH.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Pettite used HGH in 2004???

wow.

and he said Clemens told him he used HGH.

All right folks...who's gonna be the first to question Pettitte's credibility?  Just kidding...just being an a-hole. 

Seriously, Roger C. is turning into quite the tragic hero.  As a Shakesperean character, his potential downfall?  Arrogance.

[sandman]

Pettite used HGH in 2004???

wow.

and he said Clemens told him he used HGH.

All right folks...who's gonna be the first to question Pettitte's credibility?  Just kidding...just being an a-hole. 

Seriously, Roger C. is turning into quite the tragic hero.  As a Shakesperean character, his potential downfall?  Arrogance.

agreed. him and his lawyers made me sick when i was watching today.

they caught clemens in a lie. i think he's dirty.

also, i've heard from a few VERY reliable people that said it is unheard of to have a personal trainer inject a professional athlete with anything.

also, i'm trying to find if clemens described where mcnamee injected the lidocaine. it seems like he is saying it was injected in his ass, which isn't how you inject it. lidocaine is injected locally.

[tim_m]

I believe Pettitte is telling the truth. I'm not so sure about Clemens though.

[GypsySoul]

What was up with that chairman apologizing to McNamee at the end for some of the questions the committee asked him?  So much for an impartial search for the truth. 

IMO these "hearings" were a complete joke and a total waste of time and taxpayer money!!!

[Axl4Prez2004]

Gypsy, you have to admit, things are not looking good for Clemens.

Sandman is right, lidocaine is injected locally.  If I'm not mistaken, Roger had reported getting Vitamin B 12 shots in his ass though.

If Pettitte's testimony doesn't tell you Roger's tainted, I don't know what will beyond video of Clemens getting injected and saying, "Thank you for injecting me with performance-enhancing drugs, Brian."

"Pettitte felt caught in middle between 2 friends"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23145000/

[tim_m]

Gypsy, you have to admit, things are not looking good for Clemens.

Sandman is right, lidocaine is injected locally.  If I'm not mistaken, Roger had reported getting Vitamin B 12 shots in his ass though.

If Pettitte's testimony doesn't tell you Roger's tainted, I don't know what will beyond video of Clemens getting injected and saying, "Thank you for injecting me with performance-enhancing drugs, Brian."

"Pettitte felt caught in middle between 2 friends"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23145000/

I actually feel bad for Pettitte. He was absolutely wrong using HGH the four times he did even if it was just to heal faster but having to betray your friend to save your own ass from charges just sucks.

[GeorgeSteele]

Gypsy, you have to admit, things are not looking good for Clemens.

Sandman is right, lidocaine is injected locally.  If I'm not mistaken, Roger had reported getting Vitamin B 12 shots in his ass though.

If Pettitte's testimony doesn't tell you Roger's tainted, I don't know what will beyond video of Clemens getting injected and saying, "Thank you for injecting me with performance-enhancing drugs, Brian."

"Pettitte felt caught in middle between 2 friends"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23145000/

I actually feel bad for Pettitte. He was absolutely wrong using HGH the four times he did even if it was just to heal faster but having to betray your friend to save your own ass from charges just sucks.

What would Pettite have been charged with if he hadn't fingered Clemens?  The feds didn't have a problem with Giambi when he agreed to speak with them on the condition that he would not discuss anyone but himself.  Why couldn't Pettite do the same?

[tim_m]

Gypsy, you have to admit, things are not looking good for Clemens.

Sandman is right, lidocaine is injected locally.  If I'm not mistaken, Roger had reported getting Vitamin B 12 shots in his ass though.

If Pettitte's testimony doesn't tell you Roger's tainted, I don't know what will beyond video of Clemens getting injected and saying, "Thank you for injecting me with performance-enhancing drugs, Brian."

"Pettitte felt caught in middle between 2 friends"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23145000/

I actually feel bad for Pettitte. He was absolutely wrong using HGH the four times he did even if it was just to heal faster but having to betray your friend to save your own ass from charges just sucks.

What would Pettite have been charged with if he hadn't fingered Clemens?  The feds didn't have a problem with Giambi when he agreed to speak with them on the condition that he would not discuss anyone but himself.  Why couldn't Pettite do the same?

Well i believe MnNamee named him as knowing about Clemens steroid and hgh use. So i would think if he had sided with clemens' story of events he could probably get perjury and obstruction charges if its proven for sure clemens is guilty. I'm not certain that could or would happen but if it were me i'd tell what i know. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[russkwtx]

I don't know about you guys (or gals), but I am tired of this. Even if Roger used, and it is an open question that probably will never be solved, it was before it was illegal. That does not make it right, but I am saying let's move on. I want the government out of sports. What is the point of a witch hunt? I say, ok, it happened. Bad. But why prosecute now? Just test the hell out of everyone and if they are using suspend or ban them. But this government intervention is tiresome. We have it in baseball, and now that asshole Spector, who can barely put a coherent sentence together, wants to investigate the Pats and the NFL commissioner. Give me a break, what is next? A govt commission to oversee trades and salaries? Let sports be sports. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

Does anybody else get the impression Pettitte's conscience would have eaten him alive if he didn't tell all he knew?
I've got a lot of respect for Pettitte.  

I've got a 4 year old at home and it's one of the lessons I try to instill in him.  Being honest is very important.  Sometimes being honest is very hard...but dammit if you aren't honest in all areas of your life, with yourself and those around you, life is a lot more stressful.

[tim_m]

Does anybody else get the impression Pettitte's conscience would have eaten him alive if he didn't tell all he knew?
I've got a lot of respect for Pettitte.  

I've got a 4 year old at home and it's one of the lessons I try to instill in him.  Being honest is very important.  Sometimes being honest is very hard...but dammit if you aren't honest in all areas of your life, with yourself and those around you, life is a lot more stressful.

I think so yes. He's a very religous man and i think it would've gotten to him eventually. I'm glad he told the truth about his own use and what he was told about rogers use. At least he has the guts to say i fucked up and i admit it.

[GypsySoul]

Gypsy, you have to admit, things are not looking good for Clemens.

I really don't think it matters.  These hearings proved nothing.  Plus they contributed ZERO to addressing the issue of steroid/HGH use in baseball/sports.

They can't prove Roger used.  Roger will never admit it if he did.

I do think that Andy did say what he believed to be the truth.  My only question would be that why, when Andy first came forward (after he was named in the Mitchell report), did he NOT mention his own 2004 use when he was admitting to the other times he used?  Why leave that out if you're coming clean?