2008 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[cotis]

Not a money league for me, I just do it for fun. I forget about it half the time too. I like small leagues, max of 6/8 people. So the teams are good and the competition is even.

[faldor]

what does the sox rotation look like without schilling?

Beckett, Dice-K, Buccholz, Wakefield, Lester?

Have a feeling I'm forgetting someone? haha

I'd slot Wake ahead of Buchholz.  But they also may put Wake in between Beckett and Dice K to split up the 2 fastball type pitchers.  I don't think Schilling is a huge loss for the REGULAR season.  I think Clay can put up similar numbers to the 41 year old, but Curt is still a big game pitcher that would be missed in post-season.  Not to mention this obviously hurts the pitching depth.

[cotis]

Fantasy League for fun..

HTGTH Fantasy League (ID# 55182)
Password: axlrose


have fun!

[Axl4Prez2004]

Fantasy League for fun..

HTGTH Fantasy League (ID# 55182)
Password: axlrose


have fun!

I haven't followed baseball closely for ages...do I have to do some research, join, and take the championship like I did in football?  Hmmmm.

[D]

Baseball is truly my game.


Football is also but lucky for u guys I missed the draft and got stuck with a shit team I never would've drafted.

[pilferk]

Actually, I have to disagree with you guys here.  I'm no regular CSI watcher, but depending on the situation, crime labs should be able to get a pretty good idea if his story is bogus or not.  For whatever reason, personally I don't care, he seems to have the goods on Roger.  Like Freedom mentioned, Lewinsky had the blue dress, and McNamee kept the goods.  If I was dealing in anything that could be considered illegal or close to it, you can bet your ass I'd have done the same thing.  CYA, cover your ass. If you believe in Clemens' innocence, more power to ya....I'm sure OJ's also trying to find the real killers too.   

Just curious, is it 3 or 4 Cy Youngs Roger won since the questionable drug use?  What 3 or 4 pitchers finished 2nd to him, and would they get the Cy Young for those years??? 

I work in the medical field...on the IT side, but all dealing with medical research, treatment, etc.  Lots of data "stuff".

This is what they can tell, IF the storage of the materials was "good".  The guy is a former cop, so he MAY know how to store evidence....or he may think he does and have botched the storage.

IF it was stored correctly, they can pull DNA, and they should be able to give an approximate "age" of the blood.

They can tell you what the other fluids are in the tubes/syringes.

What they CAN'T do is tell you McNamee didn't "mix" the two pieces of evidence, on his own, at a much later date.

In other words, they could tell you it was Roger Clemens blood from approximately the year 2000.

They can tell you there are steroids in the tubes/syringes.

They can't tell you that McNamee didn't have a vial or two of Clemens blood on hand from 2000 (which wouldn't be unusual for a trainer/nutritionalist to have) and then a month ago put it on some gauze, in some syringes, etc.

That's why it's not definitive.  Unless you can get someone to come forward, who's reputable, who SAW the evidence (or stored it) before hand....That would be the way to verify it wasn't manufactured.

[faldor]

Fantasy League for fun..

HTGTH Fantasy League (ID# 55182)
Password: axlrose


have fun!

I'm in.  Let's get it ON!

[Axl4Prez2004]

Pilferk, nice post.  Upon cross examination or proper interview with McNamee, they could make him be very specific with his method of collection, storage, etc.  If there is any inconsistency, that's where they can totally expose him as a liar.

...but...in your heart of hearts...in your gut...you have to ask yourself the question, "Why is he naming all these names, guys who were clearly guilty and have admitted as such (at least in Pettite's case), but he's completely lying about Clemens?"  It just doesn't make sense.  I'm sorry, but in my gut, this theory of "manufactured evidence" smacks of the Mark Fuehrmann bloody glove theory back in the O.J. Simpson trial.  No O.J., a racist cop didn't put your blood on the glove, and no Roger, McNamee didn't manufacture needles with dope and your blood.  Just my 2 cents.

Was it Vitamin B12 that Roger thought was going into his buttocks?  Who the hell takes B12 in their ass?  I just find this to be really odd.


btw, the fantasy league.  is it rotisserie style, with cumulative stats or is it head to head?  Just curious.   

[D]

I am a fan of head to head leagues myself.


I think Roger is innocent.

It just doesn't really add up if u think about it.

Why would u take steroids in 98 and 2001 and not in 2007 when u are 45 years old?   


I just dont believe that because Macnamee was right about Pettite, that automatically makes him right about Clemens.

Id say he got a deal where he gave up people he would get out of jail. Id say he didn't give them enough people to warrant walkin away so at the 12th hour he blurted out Roger Clemens to save his ass.

Seriously, why would they let a felon who already skated on Rape charges walk scot free for a few minor names and little stuff on Pettite?

He lied about Roger being at Canseco's party and now he is saying Roger's wife took it?

That is just ridiculous and impossible to prove.

Clemens stats really didn't jump that much and are comparable to Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling at the time. He pitched in a very pitcher friendly park in Houston in a dilluted National League. U saw what happened when he went to a hitters park in NY.

[Axl4Prez2004]

I'm in for the league.  I've got a lot to learn between now and draft day.  Can I draft Joaquin Andujar?  My '80's knowledge is through the roof...my knowledge of current baseball players?  Well, every league needs a cellar-dweller. 
 

btw, my team name is that of my favorite pitcher of all-time.  Childhood hero I guess you could say. 

[pilferk]

Pilferk, nice post.  Upon cross examination or proper interview with McNamee, they could make him be very specific with his method of collection, storage, etc.  If there is any inconsistency, that's where they can totally expose him as a liar.

...but...in your heart of hearts...in your gut...you have to ask yourself the question, "Why is he naming all these names, guys who were clearly guilty and have admitted as such (at least in Pettite's case), but he's completely lying about Clemens?"  It just doesn't make sense.  I'm sorry, but in my gut, this theory of "manufactured evidence" smacks of the Mark Fuehrmann bloody glove theory back in the O.J. Simpson trial.  No O.J., a racist cop didn't put your blood on the glove, and no Roger, McNamee didn't manufacture needles with dope and your blood.  Just my 2 cents.

Was it Vitamin B12 that Roger thought was going into his buttocks?  Who the hell takes B12 in their ass?  I just find this to be really odd.

In my heart of hearts.....I just don't know.  That's it, in a nutshell.  I'm certainly not convinced Clemens is innocent.  I'm also not convinced he's guilty.  We'll see what happens when it goes to Congress and as Clemens defamation lawsuit progresses.  Eventually we'll get answers and I'm content to not really have a strong opinion until we get a prolonged pondering of the evidence.

As for McNamee's motivations...I can only guess.  Blackmail, maybe...though their relationship seemed to be cordial right up until the Mitchell report came out, so, maybe not.  Trying to plea a better deal out of the feds because the names he was giving up were either too few or not "high profile" enough?  Also possible.  But I just don't find the guy, given his past history and demonstrated character, to be very credible.  That's not to say he's not right...just that his word alone isn't enough for me.  I need more evidence....and evidence that's either corroborated by someone more credible or at least not easily manufactured.  Because the ONE thing we're sure of, in all this, is McNamee is a scumbag.

[pilferk]

According to this posted on their official website today this is not accurate.

Projected rotation
1. Chien-Ming Wang, 19-7, 3.70 ERA in 2007
2. Andy Pettitte, 15-9, 4.05 ERA in 2007
3. Joba Chamberlain, 2-0, 0.38 ERA, 1 SV in 2007
4. Phil Hughes, 5-3, 4.46 ERA in 2007
5. Mike Mussina, 11-10, 5.15 ERA in 2007

Then I guess things changed VERY recently:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3219462

Interesting that they're going to slot him into Clemens slot.

I wonder how they'll limit innings for him.  That's a TOUGH task when you slot the guy in at #3...right in front of another young pitcher.

And looks like they've changed again.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23116437/

Sounds like Joba's in the pen for awhile.

[faldor]

Does that make Ian Kennedy the number 5 starter at the moment ?

[pilferk]

Does that make Ian Kennedy the number 5 starter at the moment ?

That's what I just read, yup.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Pilferk, nice post.  Upon cross examination or proper interview with McNamee, they could make him be very specific with his method of collection, storage, etc.  If there is any inconsistency, that's where they can totally expose him as a liar.

...but...in your heart of hearts...in your gut...you have to ask yourself the question, "Why is he naming all these names, guys who were clearly guilty and have admitted as such (at least in Pettite's case), but he's completely lying about Clemens?"  It just doesn't make sense.  I'm sorry, but in my gut, this theory of "manufactured evidence" smacks of the Mark Fuehrmann bloody glove theory back in the O.J. Simpson trial.  No O.J., a racist cop didn't put your blood on the glove, and no Roger, McNamee didn't manufacture needles with dope and your blood.  Just my 2 cents.

Was it Vitamin B12 that Roger thought was going into his buttocks?  Who the hell takes B12 in their ass?  I just find this to be really odd.

In my heart of hearts.....I just don't know.  That's it, in a nutshell.  I'm certainly not convinced Clemens is innocent.  I'm also not convinced he's guilty.  We'll see what happens when it goes to Congress and as Clemens defamation lawsuit progresses.  Eventually we'll get answers and I'm content to not really have a strong opinion until we get a prolonged pondering of the evidence.

As for McNamee's motivations...I can only guess.  Blackmail, maybe...though their relationship seemed to be cordial right up until the Mitchell report came out, so, maybe not.  Trying to plea a better deal out of the feds because the names he was giving up were either too few or not "high profile" enough?  Also possible.  But I just don't find the guy, given his past history and demonstrated character, to be very credible.  That's not to say he's not right...just that his word alone isn't enough for me.  I need more evidence....and evidence that's either corroborated by someone more credible or at least not easily manufactured.  Because the ONE thing we're sure of, in all this, is McNamee is a scumbag.

I'm always left shaking my head with the "he needed a big name to get off" excuse.  I'm not saying you're buying into that 100%, because you are taking the appropriate road and not rushing to judgement.   But here's my complaint.  Andy Pettite is 201-112.  He's 14-5 in 35 post-season appearances.  He's never had a losing season.  He's won 21 games twice to go along with seasons of 19, 18, and 17 wins.  He's the first pitcher to win at least 12 games his first 9 seasons since 1930.  He is also one of only 4 active players with at least 180 wins, 1,700 strikeouts, and a winning percentage at or above .640. The others are Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and Roger Clemens.  In my eyes, he's a legitimate stud.  The theory McNamee needed a big name to add to Pettitte makes no sense to me.

While I liked Knoblauch, 4 time All-Star, 4 time World Series champion...he's not a Pettitte. 

btw, I do agree McNamee is a scumbag.  That said, just because he's a scumbag doesn't mean he's lying.  Let this be a lesson to the kiddies out there.  If you're gonna do something legally questionable, do it with people with bad reputations. 

[D]

I just dont buy the theory that just because Pettitte did it, that automatically makes Clemens guilty. Clemens may have done it but I don't know, I just have a weird feeling that maybe he didnt.

[tim_m]

According to this posted on their official website today this is not accurate.

Projected rotation
1. Chien-Ming Wang, 19-7, 3.70 ERA in 2007
2. Andy Pettitte, 15-9, 4.05 ERA in 2007
3. Joba Chamberlain, 2-0, 0.38 ERA, 1 SV in 2007
4. Phil Hughes, 5-3, 4.46 ERA in 2007
5. Mike Mussina, 11-10, 5.15 ERA in 2007

Then I guess things changed VERY recently:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3219462

Interesting that they're going to slot him into Clemens slot.

I wonder how they'll limit innings for him.  That's a TOUGH task when you slot the guy in at #3...right in front of another young pitcher.

And looks like they've changed again.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23116437/

Sounds like Joba's in the pen for awhile.

Yeah i read an article on their site the other day that says he could either start in the pen or the rotation. They're just trying to protect him by keeping under a certain amount of innings and thats gonna take being creative like having him in the pen at least some of the season. I understand this to a degree, the guy hasn't pitched more than 131 innings before and that was just last year but at some point you just gotta let them pitch.

[tim_m]

Does that make Ian Kennedy the number 5 starter at the moment ?

That's what I just read, yup.

And that doesn't bother me one bit. The guy was 3-0 with an era of like 1 in his september starts. I think he will do just fine as a starter full time. He reminds me of a very young moose. If we can get another moose for the next 15 yrs or so i will be VERY happy.

[tim_m]

According to this posted on their official website today this is not accurate.

Projected rotation
1. Chien-Ming Wang, 19-7, 3.70 ERA in 2007
2. Andy Pettitte, 15-9, 4.05 ERA in 2007
3. Joba Chamberlain, 2-0, 0.38 ERA, 1 SV in 2007
4. Phil Hughes, 5-3, 4.46 ERA in 2007
5. Mike Mussina, 11-10, 5.15 ERA in 2007

Then I guess things changed VERY recently:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3219462

Interesting that they're going to slot him into Clemens slot.

I wonder how they'll limit innings for him.  That's a TOUGH task when you slot the guy in at #3...right in front of another young pitcher.

And looks like they've changed again.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23116437/

Sounds like Joba's in the pen for awhile.

Its on the website too. It looks like they are gonna keep him in the minors until june then bring him up as a setup man for a bit then let him start. It all seems to be just to keep him under the set limit of 140 innings.

[cotis]

Where does it say anything like that?

All reports say setup man April/May barring any injuries to starters.

Says nothing about staying there till June?

It says..

According to team sources who spoke to the Post, the plan is a response to Chamberlain's prescribed innings limit, reportedly around 140. Beginning the season in the bullpen would allow Chamberlain to limit his innings, though it would also hamper his endurance as a starter. That's why he would head down to the Minors to stretch out his arm in June, before rejoining the Yankees as a member of the rotation.

He would start the year as a reliever, go down to the minors to stretch out his arm (get some innings in as a starter) then come back up later this summer as a starter.

He definitely won't start the year there.