2008 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[tim_m]

I actually think Hughes is going to be the one who turns into the #1 starter, because Joba's 100mph fastball looks good
for an inning or so, but after 5 or 6 innings, then it may not be so unhittable.

For MOST guys with 100 mph fast ball, I'd agree.

With Joba...not so much.

Because he has a VERY effective change, an excellent slider, and a good curveball (which he almost NEVER threw in relief).

You change speeds and locations like that, and suddenly that 100 mph fast ball is STILL nasty into the 6th and 7th inning.

We'll see.  My personal opinion is they should leave him in the pen, and groom him to be the next Mariano Rivera.  But it sounds like the organization has their mind made up about eventually working him into the rotation.

The news coming out of the Yanks clubhouse is he's at least going to START the season in the pen.

According to this posted on their official website today this is not accurate.

Projected rotation
1. Chien-Ming Wang, 19-7, 3.70 ERA in 2007
2. Andy Pettitte, 15-9, 4.05 ERA in 2007
3. Joba Chamberlain, 2-0, 0.38 ERA, 1 SV in 2007
4. Phil Hughes, 5-3, 4.46 ERA in 2007
5. Mike Mussina, 11-10, 5.15 ERA in 2007

[D]

I know Santana has had a distinguished career but 150 millionover 7 years for a guy who went 15-13 last year?


I dont think he is worth 23 million a year.

He hasn't even done that great in the postseason with Minny,


Baseball are going back down a HORRIBLE path and when they want to strike again in 5 years due to the salaries they only have themselves to blame.

[tim_m]

I know Santana has had a distinguished career but 150 millionover 7 years for a guy who went 15-13 last year?


I dont think he is worth 23 million a year.

He hasn't even done that great in the postseason with Minny,


Baseball are going back down a HORRIBLE path and when they want to strike again in 5 years due to the salaries they only have themselves to blame.

He wasn't on a great offensive team though. The twins had major trouble scoring runs. The mets don't have that problem and he's in the NL. He should eat that hitting for lunch.

[faldor]

I know Santana has had a distinguished career but 150 millionover 7 years for a guy who went 15-13 last year?


I dont think he is worth 23 million a year.

He hasn't even done that great in the postseason with Minny,


Baseball are going back down a HORRIBLE path and when they want to strike again in 5 years due to the salaries they only have themselves to blame.

He wasn't on a great offensive team though. The twins had major trouble scoring runs. The mets don't have that problem and he's in the NL. He should eat that hitting for lunch.

I agree about the salaries.  They are getting out of hand, AGAIN.  Things were steadying out there for awhile but now the money is being thrown around like crazy.  And agree about Santana.  I'd be surprised if he didn't win at least a couple Cy Youngs in the NL.  Not sure how good/bad he's been in the post-season, I think you are onto something.  I don't think he's necessarily been bad but I don't think he's been nearly as effective as he is in the regular season.  And while I put a lot of stock in how pitchers can perform under the spotlight, you've got to do a lot over the 30 or so starts during the year just to get the chance in October.  And he's proven to be one of if not THE best pitcher in the league the past 4 years or so, I'd take my chances.  Great pickup by the Mets.  And I don't know much about the prospects they gave up, the Twins have done well in the past with these types of trades.  But it sure doesn't look good for them right now, haven't heard any of these guys described as "can't miss" prospects.

[freedom78]

I know Santana has had a distinguished career but 150 millionover 7 years for a guy who went 15-13 last year?


I dont think he is worth 23 million a year.

He hasn't even done that great in the postseason with Minny,


Baseball are going back down a HORRIBLE path and when they want to strike again in 5 years due to the salaries they only have themselves to blame.

He wasn't on a great offensive team though. The twins had major trouble scoring runs. The mets don't have that problem and he's in the NL. He should eat that hitting for lunch.

I agree about the salaries.  They are getting out of hand, AGAIN.  Things were steadying out there for awhile but now the money is being thrown around like crazy.  And agree about Santana.  I'd be surprised if he didn't win at least a couple Cy Youngs in the NL.  Not sure how good/bad he's been in the post-season, I think you are onto something.  I don't think he's necessarily been bad but I don't think he's been nearly as effective as he is in the regular season.  And while I put a lot of stock in how pitchers can perform under the spotlight, you've got to do a lot over the 30 or so starts during the year just to get the chance in October.  And he's proven to be one of if not THE best pitcher in the league the past 4 years or so, I'd take my chances.  Great pickup by the Mets.  And I don't know much about the prospects they gave up, the Twins have done well in the past with these types of trades.  But it sure doesn't look good for them right now, haven't heard any of these guys described as "can't miss" prospects.

The NFL cap was about $109 million this year.  The Yanks spend $86 million more than that on 20 fewer players.  That's in-fucking-sane!  This sport needs a cap...even a high one. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

as usual, Freedom is correct.  I love the sport of baseball...the organization known as M.L.B. on the other hand is terrible. 

[pilferk]

According to this posted on their official website today this is not accurate.

Projected rotation
1. Chien-Ming Wang, 19-7, 3.70 ERA in 2007
2. Andy Pettitte, 15-9, 4.05 ERA in 2007
3. Joba Chamberlain, 2-0, 0.38 ERA, 1 SV in 2007
4. Phil Hughes, 5-3, 4.46 ERA in 2007
5. Mike Mussina, 11-10, 5.15 ERA in 2007

Then I guess things changed VERY recently:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3219462

Interesting that they're going to slot him into Clemens slot.

I wonder how they'll limit innings for him.  That's a TOUGH task when you slot the guy in at #3...right in front of another young pitcher.

[tim_m]

According to this posted on their official website today this is not accurate.

Projected rotation
1. Chien-Ming Wang, 19-7, 3.70 ERA in 2007
2. Andy Pettitte, 15-9, 4.05 ERA in 2007
3. Joba Chamberlain, 2-0, 0.38 ERA, 1 SV in 2007
4. Phil Hughes, 5-3, 4.46 ERA in 2007
5. Mike Mussina, 11-10, 5.15 ERA in 2007

Then I guess things changed VERY recently:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3219462

Interesting that they're going to slot him into Clemens slot.

I wonder how they'll limit innings for him.  That's a TOUGH task when you slot the guy in at #3...right in front of another young pitcher.

Yeah it should be a very interesting season. April can't come fast enough.

[sandman]

Report: McNamee gives vials, syringes, gauze pads to investigators

Former personal trainer Brian McNamee has turned physical evidence that he believes will show Roger Clemens used performance-enhancing drugs over to federal investigators, his attorneys told the New York Daily News.

"This is evidence the government has that we believe will corroborate Brian in every significant way," McNamee lawyer Earl Ward told the Daily News.

The lawyers wouldn't discuss what the evidence is, but a source told the Daily News that McNamee gave vials with traces of steroids and human growth hormone, as well as blood-stained syringes and gauze pads that might contain Clemens' DNA, to the Justice Department's BALCO investigators.

The evidence has been sent to a lab for testing, and prosecutors might seek a court order for a DNA sample from Clemens if the evidence contains traces of drugs and blood, the Daily News reported.

McNamee kept the vials, gauze pads and syringes from the 2000 and 2001 seasons because he feared Clemens would deny using performance-enhancing drugs, the source told the Daily News.

"We will provide Congress with corroborative physical evidence that takes this case out of the he-said, she-said purview," another McNamee attorney, Richard Emery, told the Daily News. "From our point of view, this corroborates that Brian told the truth from Day One and Clemens has not."

Other witnesses may also come forward with information that corroborates McNamee's, the source told the Daily News.

Clemens gave a sworn deposition for about five hours to congressional lawyers behind closed doors Tuesday, addressing his former personal trainer's allegations. And this time, Clemens was under oath.

"I just want to thank the committee, the staff that I just met with. They were very courteous," the seven-time Cy Young Award winner said, wearing a pinstriped gray suit instead of a pinstriped New York Yankees uniform. "It was great to be able to tell them what I've been saying all along -- that I've never used steroids or growth hormone."

Tuesday's deposition was the first time Clemens faced legal risk if he were to make false statements.

In the 1? months since former Senate majority leader George Mitchell released his report on drug use in baseball, Clemens strongly and repeatedly denied what McNamee said -- in statements by his lawyers, in a written statement, in a video statement, during a taped TV interview and in a live news conference.

Clemens' private testimony to the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform came one day after his Yankees teammate and workout partner, Andy Pettitte, gave a deposition to committee staff for 2? hours. Both players' interviews were preparation for a Feb. 13 public hearing expected to focus on McNamee's allegations in the Mitchell report that he injected Clemens more than a dozen times with human growth hormone and steroids in 1998, 2000 and 2001.

Clemens acknowledged he received injections from McNamee, but he said they were for vitamin B-12 and the painkiller lidocaine. His repeated rejection of contents in the Mitchell report drew Congress' attention.

Clemens, Pettitte and McNamee all are slated to testify Feb. 13.

McNamee will discuss his evidence with the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform on Thursday, when he is interviewed by its attorneys.

[tim_m]

So he kept biohazard material for 6-10 yrs? Does that sound fishy to anyone else?

[freedom78]

So he kept biohazard material for 6-10 yrs? Does that sound fishy to anyone else?

In a world where a woman gets jizz on her infamous blue dress and never washes it?  Nope.  Doesn't sound fishy at all. 

[tim_m]

So he kept biohazard material for 6-10 yrs? Does that sound fishy to anyone else?

In a world where a woman gets jizz on her infamous blue dress and never washes it?  Nope.  Doesn't sound fishy at all. 

Haha point taken there.

[pilferk]

The problem is...even that isn't definitive.

First off...I don't know how this stuff was stored, but it's going to be awful hard to get a DNA sample unless it was stored "properly".  Not impossible, but difficult.

Second....because McNamee is such a scumball, the question about whether he manufactured the evidence is going to come up pretty quickly.  Heck, I think Roger's lawyers have already suggested it in their public statements.  And there's no way to prove, one way or the other, if it is.

I mean...it's reasonable to believe that McNamee had access to Clemens blood, given he was his trainer.  We KNOW he had access to HGH and steroids, by his own admission.

I don't think it's any more unbelieveable that he MANUFACTURED the evidence to try to save his hide than it is that he saved biohazard materials from injections that took place 6 years ago.  I mean...why would you do that?  To cover your ass so you could give him up, or blackmail him, or whatever?  Damn, that's some long term planning right there.

[tim_m]

The problem is...even that isn't definitive.

First off...I don't know how this stuff was stored, but it's going to be awful hard to get a DNA sample unless it was stored "properly".  Not impossible, but difficult.

Second....because McNamee is such a scumball, the question about whether he manufactured the evidence is going to come up pretty quickly.  Heck, I think Roger's lawyers have already suggested it in their public statements.  And there's no way to prove, one way or the other, if it is.

I mean...it's reasonable to believe that McNamee had access to Clemens blood, given he was his trainer.  We KNOW he had access to HGH and steroids, by his own admission.

I don't think it's any more unbelieveable that he MANUFACTURED the evidence to try to save his hide than it is that he saved biohazard materials from injections that took place 6 years ago.  I mean...why would you do that?  To cover your ass so you could give him up, or blackmail him, or whatever?  Damn, that's some long term planning right there.

Yeah there are way too many what if's and questions. After all this time it could be contaminated. He could've doctored those things himself etc. This will prove nothing with certainty.

[pilferk]

Looks like the Red Sox are going to be without Schilling for at least 1/2 the season, if not longer.

Does "rest and rehab" EVER work for healing a pitchers injuries...especially when 2 different doctors BOTH say it requires surgery?

[faldor]

Looks like the Red Sox are going to be without Schilling for at least 1/2 the season, if not longer.

Does "rest and rehab" EVER work for healing a pitchers injuries...especially when 2 different doctors BOTH say it requires surgery?

I heard it's similar to the torn labrum that Pedro had in 2001.  He was able to pitch effectively after rest and rehab.  So yes, it is possible.  Then again, as a Sox fan, I'm not counting on one inning from Schilling this season.  If he can come back, great, if not, they have the depth to withstand his loss, FOR NOW.  One more guy goes down, then we could be in some trouble.

[tim_m]

Pedro was also a lot younger than schilling. Whoknows how long it will take Schill to recover being not exactly young.

[Axl4Prez2004]

The problem is...even that isn't definitive.

First off...I don't know how this stuff was stored, but it's going to be awful hard to get a DNA sample unless it was stored "properly".  Not impossible, but difficult.

Second....because McNamee is such a scumball, the question about whether he manufactured the evidence is going to come up pretty quickly.  Heck, I think Roger's lawyers have already suggested it in their public statements.  And there's no way to prove, one way or the other, if it is.

I mean...it's reasonable to believe that McNamee had access to Clemens blood, given he was his trainer.  We KNOW he had access to HGH and steroids, by his own admission.

I don't think it's any more unbelieveable that he MANUFACTURED the evidence to try to save his hide than it is that he saved biohazard materials from injections that took place 6 years ago.  I mean...why would you do that?  To cover your ass so you could give him up, or blackmail him, or whatever?  Damn, that's some long term planning right there.

Yeah there are way too many what if's and questions. After all this time it could be contaminated. He could've doctored those things himself etc. This will prove nothing with certainty.

Actually, I have to disagree with you guys here.  I'm no regular CSI watcher, but depending on the situation, crime labs should be able to get a pretty good idea if his story is bogus or not.  For whatever reason, personally I don't care, he seems to have the goods on Roger.  Like Freedom mentioned, Lewinsky had the blue dress, and McNamee kept the goods.  If I was dealing in anything that could be considered illegal or close to it, you can bet your ass I'd have done the same thing.  CYA, cover your ass. If you believe in Clemens' innocence, more power to ya....I'm sure OJ's also trying to find the real killers too.   

Just curious, is it 3 or 4 Cy Youngs Roger won since the questionable drug use?  What 3 or 4 pitchers finished 2nd to him, and would they get the Cy Young for those years??? 

[cotis]

what does the sox rotation look like without schilling?

Beckett, Dice-K, Buccholz, Wakefield, Lester?

Have a feeling I'm forgetting someone? haha

[D]

I am thinking of starting a money league on Yahoo


Anyone be interested?