2008 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[The Dog]

Anyone know if the Pirates got anything in return for Marte and Nady.  By anything in return, I mean decent to quality prospects.  I have a feeling they got the crappier end of the deal.  Nady is going to kick ass for the yankees and Marte is solid.  Those two were probably two of the biggest names being shopped around, Buccos prob should/could have gotten more for them.  But when you lose soon to be 16 season in a row, not really much of a surprise. 

When does football/hockey season start? 

The Pirates?  I thought they were a NYY farm team! 

Seriously...it must suck to be a Pittsburgh fan.  That team can't be making any money, and I honestly think this whole mid-season sell off philosophy is a bad business model.  Want a jersey?  I don't, since they'll likely trade my favorite players in a month or two.  Want to come to the game?  Why, to see some AAA callups?  No thanks. 

Can you imagine the team that Pittsburgh could have if they didn't constantly trade away their talent?  I don't object to trading away a good player if you get some bona fide prospects.  But at some point they need a GM who'll say "we're keeping our talent, and building for a five year run at October."  But, sadly, the one-year bottom line is more important. 

It sucks being a Pittsburgh PIRATES fan, but its not so bad for hockey or football    And as for the Pirates, well, at least our last championship wasn't before WW2 

This has nothing to do with money though.  Nady and Marte were traded b/c the Pirates weren't going to do anything this year except MAYBE compete for a shot at getting a +.500 season, plus I think both were free agents soon and would have commanded an assload more money (ok so I guess it is somewhat financially motivated but.. whatever).  The way our pitching has been though, wouldn't matter how good our bats were.  The scouts and the GM prior to the latest ones were total jokes.  The buccos have no depth whatsoever in their minor leagues for pitching.  Its a travesty given the fact they get to pick so early on in the draft over the last decade or so.  I read a few scouts from other teams said if the Pirates pitching was just average, they would have had a legit shot at the wild card. The bats are that good this year, for real (well, prior to losing Nady that would be true).

[The Dog]

Anyone know if the Pirates got anything in return for Marte and Nady.  By anything in return, I mean decent to quality prospects.  I have a feeling they got the crappier end of the deal.  Nady is going to kick ass for the yankees and Marte is solid.  Those two were probably two of the biggest names being shopped around, Buccos prob should/could have gotten more for them.  But when you lose soon to be 16 season in a row, not really much of a surprise. 

When does football/hockey season start? 

Tabata is a HIGHLY talented prospect, though he's got a big lack of hustle. Got taken out of two games (I think, might be three) for not running out a groundball, and then not going after a flyball.
Looks like it was a deal of 3 average prospects, 1 highly talented, yet lazy prospect for a good LHP arm in the pen and a good corner OF.

Yankees got a steal with this one, IMO.

Tabata sounds like a real jag off from what you wrote an what I've read elsewhere.  I don't get a-holes like that, so much talent but for some reason they have all of this attitude.  I guess they don't want to be millionaires??

F'ing Yankees man, rich get richer.  I don't mind making trades for prospects, but damn, Pirates have given away some AWESOME players and gotten jack shit in return. 

[freedom78]

Anyone know if the Pirates got anything in return for Marte and Nady.  By anything in return, I mean decent to quality prospects.  I have a feeling they got the crappier end of the deal.  Nady is going to kick ass for the yankees and Marte is solid.  Those two were probably two of the biggest names being shopped around, Buccos prob should/could have gotten more for them.  But when you lose soon to be 16 season in a row, not really much of a surprise. 

When does football/hockey season start? 

The Pirates?  I thought they were a NYY farm team! 

Seriously...it must suck to be a Pittsburgh fan.  That team can't be making any money, and I honestly think this whole mid-season sell off philosophy is a bad business model.  Want a jersey?  I don't, since they'll likely trade my favorite players in a month or two.  Want to come to the game?  Why, to see some AAA callups?  No thanks. 

Can you imagine the team that Pittsburgh could have if they didn't constantly trade away their talent?  I don't object to trading away a good player if you get some bona fide prospects.  But at some point they need a GM who'll say "we're keeping our talent, and building for a five year run at October."  But, sadly, the one-year bottom line is more important. 

It sucks being a Pittsburgh PIRATES fan, but its not so bad for hockey or football    And as for the Pirates, well, at least our last championship wasn't before WW2 

Touch?.

Not that I'm touchy about things that happened before I was born.  And, of course, this was only a comment about baseball.  It's a good town for football.

[faldor]

He's not saying it point blank, but it sure seems like Manny Rarirez is doing his best to talk his way right out of Boston.  He's never truly been comfortable in Boston, something you couldn't tell by his play.  He has put up fantastic numbers during his tenure, but I just don't think he enjoys the city and all that comes with it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3507249

Can the Sox avoid the sweep tonight?  God I hope so.  If they can't beat Ponson I don't know if I can cheer for them anymore.  Okay, I won't go that far.  But come on, PONSON!  They should batter that Aruban Prince (or whatever he is) all over the park.

[tim_m]

He's not saying it point blank, but it sure seems like Manny Rarirez is doing his best to talk his way right out of Boston.  He's never truly been comfortable in Boston, something you couldn't tell by his play.  He has put up fantastic numbers during his tenure, but I just don't think he enjoys the city and all that comes with it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3507249

Can the Sox avoid the sweep tonight?  God I hope so.  If they can't beat Ponson I don't know if I can cheer for them anymore.  Okay, I won't go that far.  But come on, PONSON!  They should batter that Aruban Prince (or whatever he is) all over the park.

Yeah he is trying his darndest to talk his way out of the city and put all the attention on himself.

Well Ponson has been really good this year and we have won every game he's started but he's historically not good at fenway so we'll see. Lester has been lights out so it should be a good one.

[tim_m]

Wow what a bunch of turds espn announcers are. They just took a horrible dig at Rivera saying Gossage didn't need heavy metal music just his fastball. WTF? Gossage was great but i'm sorry Rivera is better. F ESPN.

[faldor]

A little more on Manny.  Now I will preface before I post these comments that I think overall the media HATES Manny Ramirez because he is such a primadonna.  For every good comment they give him about what a great hitter he is or how seriously he takes his craft of hitting and is the first guy to the park on gamedays reviewing tape and working on his swing, there's 5 negative comments that follow.

Taken from, www.bostondirtdogs.com

Gammons: Manny Has Fantasy of $100M Contract
?I don't think there's any question it's a distraction and it's not a humorous distraction because Scott Boras put it very well, 'for $160 million for eight years, there is an obligation to perform for the team,' and Manny doesn't seem to understand he has an obligation to the Red Sox, he only sees an obligation to himself and for the first time other than 2006 when they were out of it, I think it's really come to a head here and I have no idea how it's going to resolve itself because he'll be very happy to walk away; not care less about whether the Red Sox win another game and try and go out on the market this winter and get his fantasy of $100 million for four years, which I don't think is possible. ... I don't think the Red Sox will get anything back [in a trade]... I don't see it happening...

"I find it a little different this time around. I don't sense that this rallying of 'poor Manny' [in the clubhouse]. There's a sense that... they're trying to fight for their lives, they've had a lot of guys hurt, they're out on the road... 'let's see, I'm not going to play the two games this season against [Mariners pitcher Felix] Hernandez. He didn't play the two games against [Yankees pitcher Joba] Chamberlain, He didn't play against [Reds pitcher Edinson] Voquez, he didn't play against [Tigers pitcher Justin] Verlander. I think other teammates look at that and say ''oh, he doesn't want to play against the hard throwers,' take the day... I think that's also worn people out. ...

"Apparently $168 million isn't enough. I know there's been frustration on ownership's part in the past. I think the frustration is now anger and I'm not sure it's resolvable."




I find the comments about missing games against hard throwers interesting.  It's been evident this year that Manny has had some trouble getting around on high fastballs, at least in comparison to years past.





Rosenthal: Manny Considered Sitting Until KC Series
?...several days before Ramirez missed two games, citing a knee problem, Red Sox players sensed from his demeanor that he was about to shut down.

"Once Ramirez was out, he told some teammates that he might not play "until Kansas City" ? a series that begins a week from Monday, after the Red Sox's current nine-game homestand.

"Management responded forcefully, sending Ramirez for MRIs on both knees and telling him that there would be consequences if the tests came back clean. Once they did, their message to Ramirez was clear: You need to play."



Never a dull moment in MannyLand

[tim_m]

Manny's all about the money

Monday, July 28, 2008 | Print Entry

Everyone in the clubhouse knows the names. Joba Chamberlain (twice), Felix Hernandez (twice), Edinson Volquez, Justin Verlander -- pitchers that Manny Ramirez didn't feel quite right to face, be it a knee, a hamstring, his contract or the pitcher's velocity, and those he left for someone else in the Red Sox "family" to face.

Everyone knows what this latest soap opera is about. It's about Manny being only about Manny -- not the team that will have paid him $168 million when this season's over, not "teammates" he leaves to answer for him, not winning or any competitive motivation.

No. Manny being Manny means Manny wanting money. He doesn't want to wait for the Red Sox to exercise the right he gave them for the first $168M, the right to decide at the end of the season whether to pick up his option for 2009 at $20M. The Red Sox fulfilled their end of the contract; now he doesn't want to fulfill his obligation, the same way he watched his teammates fade in 2006.

He knows that this winter -- when he's 36, turning 37 next May -- he has a better chance of scoring the four-year, $100M deal he has told teammates he can get than he will after the 2010 season, when he'll be 38 turning 39. He doesn't want to have to sweat for two years at a measly $20M, and everyone knows that he couldn't care less how he gets that $100M, even if it means sitting out and leaving "family" fighting it out without him.

Manny is right. The Red Sox are tired of him. They are not going to pick up the option for 2009 and spend one more year as his prisoner. What he wants is to go to another team, on which he can put up big numbers for two months and either get that new contract, or go out on the market. Rationally, one would think he could do that in Boston -- first help the Red Sox into the postseason, then hit the market.

But that assumes rationality is in play.

Scott Boras intervened and helped the fine/anger-management solution after Ramirez shoved traveling secretary Jack McCormick. And Boras right now is trying to help Manny understand that it is in his best interest to, in Boras' words, "fulfill his current obligation," and put up the free-agent numbers here in Boston, where he has David Ortiz to take the heat Manny ignores, with five All-Stars in the lineup around him.

Oh, we all hear the analysis of how much the Red Sox need him. That is, if he doesn't bag it, which he was willing to do until John Henry and Tom Werner joined with Theo Epstein and Terry Francona on Friday, enraged at him for skipping Chamberlain, and forced him to take an MRI for the knee affliction known as Felix-Joba-itis.

But over the weekend, when they had one of those rare important series, with the Yankees charging on the outside, Red Sox management and players got a taste of what the series, the pennant and winning mean to him. Manny is right: Enough is enough. But management has to worry that if he gets booed he'll quit. Or that if Manny is criticized, he'll sit.

They are trying to get other teams interested. In the clubhouse, they talk about maybe getting Pat Burrell from the Phillies and reuniting Manny with Charlie Manuel. The Sox have let teams know they'll take care of Ramirez's remaining money if they'll provide young talent, which, considering what Manny can do for the Mets or Phillies or Dodgers, is a nice free-home demonstration; he won't have had time to "tire" of owners who pay him as much as the entire Florida Marlins team.

Ortiz, Mike Lowell, Alex Cora and other players are trying to help Manny focus and play in Boston; he works out with Lowell and Cora regularly, and some days he listens as they try to get him to connect the dots between the concepts of performance and pay. Maybe it'll work, and even if they do not win the World Series, they can rationalize that what they got for eight years and $168M was a pair of world championships and years of sellouts. They can rationalize that Manny essentially was The Fens' version of "Damn Yankees," and they'd probably say it was worth it to sell their souls to end that 86-year thing. But the interest rate on those payments of $20M and their souls is getting a tad steep.

Then the Red Sox move on and try to find another left-field bat. In the meantime, they may have to spend the rest of the year wondering if Manny Ramirez cares to play, whether the opposing pitcher is on his wish list.

Manny clearly has decided that he has already fulfilled his obligation to the first eight-year contract, and wants the next $100M right now. In the real world, this is a form of blackmail. In the clubhouse, where Francona and his teammates have allowed him to live by his own rules knowing that his production is Cooperstown material, many are exhausted by his disdain for the game, for winning and for any form of authority.

What Henry, Werner and Larry Lucchino should do is call a press conference and announce extensions for Francona and Epstein for all they have had to swallow because Manny Ramirez can hit. Then they can watch and see if a 36-year-old DH whose production in 2007 and 2008 has fallen below his 1998-2006 levels will go out and prove he's worth four years and $100M and ride off into the sunset snubbing his nose at the people who paid him $168M.

If he doesn't understand that these two months are vital to his next $100M, fine. If there isn't a reasonable trade to be made, fine.

After years of his public defenders rationalizing that the Red Sox can't win without him, if they can't win with him, so be it. At least the Red Sox can feel clean and sober.

A group of Red Sox watched the Yankees take early batting practice Friday, and they complimented the way Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Bobby Abreu and Johnny Damon show up every day. "Say what you want about A-Rod," said one, "but he plays every day and he plays his behind off."

Rodriguez opted out of his contract after an MVP season. What Ramirez is doing is trying to opt out in the middle of his contract during the season.

What the Red Sox hope is that he listens to Boras and his teammates and fulfills the obligation he signed. And then there's a train, either way, leaving every day. And buyer beware of a man who chooses to be judged by numbers and salary, with no regard for character or integrity.


Wow Gammons just tore Manny a new hole.

[faldor]

Yeah as I said in my previous post, Gammons and mostly all media types don't care too much for Manny Ramirez.  He's had a blustery relationship with the media during his stay in Boston, refusing to talk to them for bulks of time.  He doesn't like them, they don't like him.  Every year he has his episodes and every year the media writes about how the Sox should rid themselves of him because he's a team cancer.  I'm not sticking up for Manny Ramirez, but he's right in a way when he said that the Red Sox are not stupid and they know what they have with him and what they would have without him.  They tried to GIVE him away a couple years ago when they put him on waivers.  No team wanted to pick his contract up at that time.  But they've held onto him all this time despite the guaranteed yearly episodes because they are a better team with him than without him.  There's no way they could get anywhere close to equal value.  And I don't believe he's a cancer to the team.  Most of the players love Manny, I'm sure there are some who are tired of his antics (Kevin Youkilis maybe), but for the most part everyone knows what to expect from Manny.  They know he's gonna take some days off, even for crucial games, from time to time.  Unfortunately he's one of the greatest right handed hitters in the game and when he does show up to play he takes pride and works hard at his craft.

The Boston media will be happy when the season ends and the Manny era is over in Boston, but as Gammons said in that article, it was well worth it.  He earned every penny of that 8 year contract.  Is his act tired?  Definitely.  Are the Sox sick of it?  Definitely, have been for years, that's no secret.  Unfortunately baseball is big business.  Manny hasn't had the pleasure of being a free agent the last 8 years and he knows this is his last chance for a big payday.  Even though Scott Boras is saying all the right things and looks like the "good guy" in this situation I find that kind of hard to swallow.  It wouldn't surprise me if he got in his ear and painted the picture of the next and final big payday.  He'll get it, not sure if he'll get the 100 million he's seeking, but I'm sure he'll get more than the 40 million in options the Red Sox have on him.  He just better hope the Sox stay in the race long enough for him to put up some big numbers and drive up his value.

I love all that Manny has done for the Sox.  He's been a pleasure to watch at the plate, and heck it's not my money so I've been able to deal with the yearly episodes a little easier than the guys paying the checks.  Sure he gets on my nerves sometimes, but he's easily forgiven because he never lets things get to him.  As much crap as the media writes about him (and deservedly so) he will go out and continue to hit.  There's a lot of Manny appologists out there, and Manny conspirists.  I am somewhere in between.  Trust me, if they could trade him for anything close to equal value I'd be all for it.  I just don't think that's possible, so I'm in the camp that they're better dealing with his crap until the end of his era in Boston.

[tim_m]

Yeah as I said in my previous post, Gammons and mostly all media types don't care too much for Manny Ramirez.  He's had a blustery relationship with the media during his stay in Boston, refusing to talk to them for bulks of time.  He doesn't like them, they don't like him.  Every year he has his episodes and every year the media writes about how the Sox should rid themselves of him because he's a team cancer.  I'm not sticking up for Manny Ramirez, but he's right in a way when he said that the Red Sox are not stupid and they know what they have with him and what they would have without him.  They tried to GIVE him away a couple years ago when they put him on waivers.  No team wanted to pick his contract up at that time.  But they've held onto him all this time despite the guaranteed yearly episodes because they are a better team with him than without him.  There's no way they could get anywhere close to equal value.  And I don't believe he's a cancer to the team.  Most of the players love Manny, I'm sure there are some who are tired of his antics (Kevin Youkilis maybe), but for the most part everyone knows what to expect from Manny.  They know he's gonna take some days off, even for crucial games, from time to time.  Unfortunately he's one of the greatest right handed hitters in the game and when he does show up to play he takes pride and works hard at his craft.

The Boston media will be happy when the season ends and the Manny era is over in Boston, but as Gammons said in that article, it was well worth it.  He earned every penny of that 8 year contract.  Is his act tired?  Definitely.  Are the Sox sick of it?  Definitely, have been for years, that's no secret.  Unfortunately baseball is big business.  Manny hasn't had the pleasure of being a free agent the last 8 years and he knows this is his last chance for a big payday.  Even though Scott Boras is saying all the right things and looks like the "good guy" in this situation I find that kind of hard to swallow.  It wouldn't surprise me if he got in his ear and painted the picture of the next and final big payday.  He'll get it, not sure if he'll get the 100 million he's seeking, but I'm sure he'll get more than the 40 million in options the Red Sox have on him.  He just better hope the Sox stay in the race long enough for him to put up some big numbers and drive up his value.

I love all that Manny has done for the Sox.  He's been a pleasure to watch at the plate, and heck it's not my money so I've been able to deal with the yearly episodes a little easier than the guys paying the checks.  Sure he gets on my nerves sometimes, but he's easily forgiven because he never lets things get to him.  As much crap as the media writes about him (and deservedly so) he will go out and continue to hit.  There's a lot of Manny appologists out there, and Manny conspirists.  I am somewhere in between.  Trust me, if they could trade him for anything close to equal value I'd be all for it.  I just don't think that's possible, so I'm in the camp that they're better dealing with his crap until the end of his era in Boston.

Yeah you are absolutely right for all the bullshit he does he still does produce and they'd be stupid to trade him cause there is no way in the world they'd get anything to equal his numbers. The act has to be getting tiresome though for management his teammates and fans though. Can you honestly say he didn't sit out against Joba cause there was anything wrong with him? They're obviously going to part ways at seasons end and i have no idea what boston can or will do to replace his production. It sure will not be easy at all.

[faldor]

Yeah I read that about him missing the games against Joba, King Felix, Verlander, and Volquez last night.  I never really examined it that closely.  That does look ominous though.  And if you want to throw more fuel on the fire you can take the pinch hit performance against Rivera where he took 3 straight strikes.  There were questions after that whether he was trying or just went up there with the intention of keeping the bat on his shoulder.  The missed game against Joba seemed to strike a chord with the Sox brass though.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought he was legitimately hurt but they obviously saw things differently and forced him to get an MRI, which came back negative.  They've been tired of Manny's shenanigans for the last 4 years now, but back then his contract was untouchable in the eyes of other teams and they haven't felt they could justify getting rid of him while he was still so productive.  It sure sounds like this is the end of the line though, at least at seasons end.  What will they do?  Well, they'll have 20 million to play with.  But that's still gonna be a tough void to fill.  They'll go from the most feared 3/4 hitters to potentially Ortiz/Drew.  Doesn't quite have the same kind of impact.  Watch Ortiz' numbers fall dramatically too without Manny hitting behind him.  I'll trust they'll have some sort of plan, but it's not gonna be easy. 

But for now, the Sox have to find a way to beat the Angels (or games in general right now).  Their slumber continues.  The home cooking was supposed to cure what ailed them.  So far, not so good.

[tim_m]

Yeah I read that about him missing the games against Joba, King Felix, Verlander, and Volquez last night.  I never really examined it that closely.  That does look ominous though.  And if you want to throw more fuel on the fire you can take the pinch hit performance against Rivera where he took 3 straight strikes.  There were questions after that whether he was trying or just went up there with the intention of keeping the bat on his shoulder.  The missed game against Joba seemed to strike a chord with the Sox brass though.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought he was legitimately hurt but they obviously saw things differently and forced him to get an MRI, which came back negative.  They've been tired of Manny's shenanigans for the last 4 years now, but back then his contract was untouchable in the eyes of other teams and they haven't felt they could justify getting rid of him while he was still so productive.  It sure sounds like this is the end of the line though, at least at seasons end.  What will they do?  Well, they'll have 20 million to play with.  But that's still gonna be a tough void to fill.  They'll go from the most feared 3/4 hitters to potentially Ortiz/Drew.  Doesn't quite have the same kind of impact.  Watch Ortiz' numbers fall dramatically too without Manny hitting behind him.  I'll trust they'll have some sort of plan, but it's not gonna be easy. 

But for now, the Sox have to find a way to beat the Angels (or games in general right now).  Their slumber continues.  The home cooking was supposed to cure what ailed them.  So far, not so good.

Yeah i had forgotten about that at bat. That one still boggles my mind why he didn't even swing. I memory serves correctly he has historically hit Rivera better than most. So why did he just stand there? Its pretty hard to ignore that he was mysteriously injured when he had to face very good pitches. It makes you wonder. I can see why skipping Joba struck a chord i am sure it had a lot to do with the fact it was the yankees and a division rival thats coming on pretty strong and wins against the division are really needed. I don't blame other teams from shying away in years past from a trade. Thats a lot to take on plus the emotional baggage but yeah it definitely seems to be coming to a close at seasons end. It sucks its gonna end so bitterly but Manny did it to himself. I can definitely see Ortiz' numbers dropping without Manny to protect him in the lineup. That can be said about any great hitter though on any team cause he can just be pitched around. I'm sure they're already talking about what to do how to replace him but like you said thats gonna be tough to replace such a potent member of that lineup. The money freed up will surely help a lot though. I am also sure Boras has something to do with all this. That guy is a turd and i'm glad Arod realized it and negotiated his own contract.

[faldor]

The problem the Sox are gonna face in replacing Manny is trying to find a LF who can hit near Manny's level.  They're pretty much set at every other position, except maybe SS and C.  I think Texeira is a FA at years end?  But they have a gold glover there.  They could potentially move Youkilis to LF I guess, but I'm not sure they'd want to do that.  They could try to build their team a little differently, more like the Angels perhaps.  They don't exactly have the most imposing lineup, just a bunch of pesky hitters who scratch out enough runs to support their pitching staff.  The Sox could obviously use bullpen help, but it's hard to build a bullpen through free agency.  That hardly ever works.  Maybe another SP, Wakefield's not gonna pitch forever.  They're set up pretty well for years to come with Beckett, Lester, Dice K, and Buccholz if he can get things going (and I think he can eventually). 

Anyone got a list of upcoming free agents that's readily available?  I'm sure there's one somewhere, but I don't have the time to look right now.

[pilferk]

Joba pitched a gem tonight, and the Yanks acquired Damaso Marte (LHP) and Xavier Nady (OF). Good day for a Yankee fan like me! We get the lefty reliever we have needed since Stanton left, and a corner OF that'll give some pop against lefties and provide some time off for Abreu/Damon if needed!

OK, here's the thing:

There's no way Joba was throwing at the guy, THIS time.  In the past....yup, I agree.   Which, of course, makes this time look a whole lot worse and, were I in Youk's shoes, it would tick me off.

But you do not throw at the leadoff guy in a 1 run ball game.  He'd have to be an idiot...and Joba isn't an idiot.

I wonder if it's that the way he has to pitch to Youk, according to the scouting report, just slots that arm in, in such a way that he's more prone to "miss" up and in.  I don't know.  But I do know that THIS time, it wasn't intentional.  You could tell both by Joba's reaction, the catcher's reaction, etc.

[pilferk]

Anyone know if the Pirates got anything in return for Marte and Nady.  By anything in return, I mean decent to quality prospects.  I have a feeling they got the crappier end of the deal.  Nady is going to kick ass for the yankees and Marte is solid.  Those two were probably two of the biggest names being shopped around, Buccos prob should/could have gotten more for them.  But when you lose soon to be 16 season in a row, not really much of a surprise. 

When does football/hockey season start? 

Magic beans, essentially.

Tabata's not bad, but he's not Nady.  We've had a guy or two jump ahead of him in the farm system, recently, so he's not great loss to us.  Great potential, decent upside, but his ability to realize that potential and his work ethic are questionable.

Ohlendorf is a decent back end of the bullpen reliever...but I don't think he'll ever be more than that.

Karstens may, someday, develop into a middling 4 or 5 starter in the rotation.  Or he might be a decent innings eater out of the bullpen.  Or, he might be a complete bust.  He's shown glimmers of potential while with the Yanks, but he's prone to dumb mistakes, injuries, and throwing the EXACT wrong pitch at the EXACT wrong time.  Even without all that, his stuff is pretty average.

As for McCutchen....I guess all I need to say is I've never heard of him.  Don't think he's ever spent any time in the bigs, and he's certainly not one of the Yanks top prospects.

[pilferk]

This has nothing to do with money though.  Nady and Marte were traded b/c the Pirates weren't going to do anything this year except MAYBE compete for a shot at getting a +.500 season, plus I think both were free agents soon and would have commanded an assload more money (ok so I guess it is somewhat financially motivated but.. whatever).  The way our pitching has been though, wouldn't matter how good our bats were.  The scouts and the GM prior to the latest ones were total jokes.  The buccos have no depth whatsoever in their minor leagues for pitching.  Its a travesty given the fact they get to pick so early on in the draft over the last decade or so.  I read a few scouts from other teams said if the Pirates pitching was just average, they would have had a legit shot at the wild card. The bats are that good this year, for real (well, prior to losing Nady that would be true).

I'm not 100% sure about Marte's status, but I think he's only signed for 2M in '08 with an '09 club option (which he can't opt out of) for similar money.

Nady isn't even eligible for free agency yet....arbitration in '09, but that's not likely going to get him a HUGE raise.

These are both guys that the Pirates could have kept around.  I can sorta see Nady going, since the Pirates front office seems super hot on Steve Pearce, but....jeesh....they still let the guy go for a song.  Unless Pearce is a bona fide, blue chipper they view as a future HOF'er.......I just don't see why they did it.

[pilferk]

Tabata sounds like a real jag off from what you wrote an what I've read elsewhere.  I don't get a-holes like that, so much talent but for some reason they have all of this attitude.  I guess they don't want to be millionaires??

You mean like.....Manny?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

F'ing Yankees man, rich get richer.  I don't mind making trades for prospects, but damn, Pirates have given away some AWESOME players and gotten jack shit in return. 

Yup, I don't know who Cashman is buddies with over there is Pittsburgh, but he owes 'em a couple cases a beer.

[pilferk]

The problem the Sox are gonna face in replacing Manny is trying to find a LF who can hit near Manny's level.  They're pretty much set at every other position, except maybe SS and C. I think Texeira is a FA at years end?  But they have a gold glover there.  They could potentially move Youkilis to LF I guess, but I'm not sure they'd want to do that.  They could try to build their team a little differently, more like the Angels perhaps.  They don't exactly have the most imposing lineup, just a bunch of pesky hitters who scratch out enough runs to support their pitching staff.  The Sox could obviously use bullpen help, but it's hard to build a bullpen through free agency.  That hardly ever works.  Maybe another SP, Wakefield's not gonna pitch forever.  They're set up pretty well for years to come with Beckett, Lester, Dice K, and Buccholz if he can get things going (and I think he can eventually). 

Anyone got a list of upcoming free agents that's readily available?  I'm sure there's one somewhere, but I don't have the time to look right now.

Texeira is an interesting fit for the Sox.

But here's the problem: IF they want him, they're probably going to need to get him NOW..as in trade for him.  Because it sounds like he's a hot commodity on the trade market, and it's likely he's going to go.  IF he goes, I'm thinking that it won't be like Cebathia...it won't be as a 'rent a player" for the rest of the year.  Which means it's LIKELY the trade will involve a contract extention for Texiera.

If the Sox want to get involved in that market, it means trading Manny.  And I don't think that's gonna happen, because nobody is going to want to give up what the Sox would ask for.

And I don't see any big name corner outfielders (unless the Yanks let one go...they might with Nady on board) coming on the market this winter/spring.

Here's the potential list of '09 FA:

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2002/02/2008-09-free-agents.html

The only name on there that might "match" Manny is Vladdy on the Angels..but he's got a club option for '09 and you KNOW they're going to pick it up.  They're too good this year (even with him having a "down" year for him) not to.

Other than that...there's some solid names to be sure, but nobody spectacular, IMHO.  And the really good ones all seem to have a club option out there.  Griffey's probably won't be picked up.....but the rest of 'em? 

Edit: And NOW, Texeira is a moot point.  Looks like he's headed to the Angels, which makes them INSANELY dangerous.  Great!  Just in time for a 4 game set with the Yanks.....(and probably ONE more with the Sox).

[tim_m]

Figures he'd go to the angels. That team always gives us fits anyway now they'll be even harder to beat.

[faldor]

Sox are about to be no-hit by John Lackey.  Unless I just jinxed him.

Earlier today I said the Angels didn't have a power hitting lineup, just a bunch of scrappy hitters.  Well now they've got a power hitting lineup mixed in with some scrappy hitters.  They are now the team to beat, if they weren't already.  They've got it all.  Pitching, defense, speed, intangibles, managing.  Scary team built for October.



Okay, so I jinxed him.  My appologies to the friends and family of John Lackey.  Angels continue to whip up on the Sox though.  Thank god tomorrow's the last time they play unless they meet in the playoffs.  Sox are almost looking like a team that NEEDS a change right now.  Not sure if the whole Manny saga has drained the team or what but if they hadn't played the hapless Mariners last week they'd be in some serious trouble right now.  4-7 since the break.  1-7 against teams not located in Seattle.  0-5 against the Halos.