CD w/ Label = Directly from Richard

[Jaci_Roxx]

Imagine if you went shopping at your favorite grocery store and they didn't have any bread (or beer), and the manager told you, "Its on the next shipment, it's coming." So you check back. Again, no bread (or beer), and again the manager says "It's on the way, it's not my fault, the delivery truck broke down, but we have crackers and Zima." And again and again it happens, and you get more excuses, like "Oh, the warehouse is out ... oh it just takes a long time to bake bread and brew beer ... oh the home office won't let us sell bread and beer until later in the year."

Eventually, you quit checking back. I think that's what's going on now. A lot of fans are tired of waiting, so they are not checking back.

I think they'll be back once the album is released! It's not like people are going to the record store every day to see if it's there. And messageboards aren't anything like grocery stores... You can stay away from here for a year and then suddenly feel like you want to come and see what's going on.
I kept doing that with the 4th Indiana Jones movie for a LONG time. Waiting for news, reading rumours about the script (whether or not one existed) etc... There were times when I didn't even remember that it might come out someday. Then one day I feel like checkin if there are any news on it and BANG, they're FILMING it and there are PHOTOS of it and there's an official website! And I couldn't be more excited about it!!! 

[pilferk]

I think they'll be back once the album is released! It's not like people are going to the record store every day to see if it's there. And messageboards aren't anything like grocery stores... You can stay away from here for a year and then suddenly feel like you want to come and see what's going on.
I kept doing that with the 4th Indiana Jones movie for a LONG time. Waiting for news, reading rumours about the script (whether or not one existed) etc... There were times when I didn't even remember that it might come out someday. Then one day I feel like checkin if there are any news on it and BANG, they're FILMING it and there are PHOTOS of it and there's an official website! And I couldn't be more excited about it!!! 

Completely OT, but:

They were filming right around the corner from where I work a few months back.  Got to see them shooting a couple scenes.

[marknroses]

With the arrival of 2008 and the new GNR already primed to push the new albums after 10+ in the studio and 6+ years of on and off touring schedules around the world, and with new demos indicating finished material and statements made by those involved with this musical project, I would say that 2008 has to be the year of a new Guns N' Roses to make their musical print.

If no new music from GNR comes out in 2008, then it will never come out. No more excuses can keep this music away. To plan a marketing campaign over a 5 year period for 4 albums given the budget expended and expectations made should not take longer than 1 year even with the apparent turmoil within the music industry. I'm sure there are marketing ploys dating back to 1999 when the idea of releasing new music was first broached. They have had more than enough time to build on that by now.

I'm not trying to sound desperate for new music. I'm just saying that this is within a more than reasonable time-table to release new records. Also, the sales of the first record would certainly shift plans anyways depending on where it sells better and how much it sells. This goes for the 2nd and 3rd records as well.

Can we expect a followup to "Chinese Democracy" in 2020?
 
MNW

[slashsbaconpit]

Sure you can.? Witness the fact they have.? Should you?? Well, you know....they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.? If they say nothing, people scream, and yell, and rant and rave because there's silence and they're not communicating with us.? If they communicate, and pass along their INTENTIONS, people scream, and yell, and rant, and rave if everything doesn't go exactly as they intend.? They're in a catch-22.? And in THIS case, you're right: You can't have it both ways.

So it's okay to jerk your fans around? I don't see my post as petty bitching. My feelings on the issue come as the result of years of supporting this band, years of saying "That's bullshit, the new album is right around the corner," whenever someone makes a comment about how washed up GNR is, years of spending money on concerts, including one where I had to book a plane, get a hotel, and find the concert cancelled after spending the money. Sure, I got my ticket price back, but that was the smallest part of my investment in going out to support the band.

I'm sorry, I know life isn't fair. That's why hurricanes, tornados and earth quakes happen. But when someone dangles a carrot in front of you for years and years, but never lets it go so you can eat it, that's just jerking you around.

[pilferk]

With the arrival of 2008 and the new GNR already primed to push the new albums after 10+ in the studio and 6+ years of on and off touring schedules around the world, and with new demos indicating finished material and statements made by those involved with this musical project, I would say that 2008 has to be the year of a new Guns N' Roses to make their musical print.

If no new music from GNR comes out in 2008, then it will never come out. No more excuses can keep this music away. To plan a marketing campaign over a 5 year period for 4 albums given the budget expended and expectations made should not take longer than 1 year even with the apparent turmoil within the music industry. I'm sure there are marketing ploys dating back to 1999 when the idea of releasing new music was first broached. They have had more than enough time to build on that by now.

I'm not trying to sound desperate for new music. I'm just saying that this is within a more than reasonable time-table to release new records. Also, the sales of the first record would certainly shift plans anyways depending on where it sells better and how much it sells. This goes for the 2nd and 3rd records as well.

Can we expect a followup to "Chinese Democracy" in 2020?
 
MNW

IF the label is intent on release, that's all true.

The question is: are they.  And thats the million dollar question.

It isn't like the band turns over the album and the label just releases it.  They DO have the right to refuse to release it, at all.

Now, I agree....it's a long shot they'd do that, considering the time and money investment.  Even if they view it as a bomb, they'd likely release it to recoup SOMETHING of their investment. Not definitely (Because there's something to be said for incurring production and marketing costs), but likely.  But they don't have to.  And if they view the contract for future material as more valuable than the current material (again, I'd say that's unlikely)...all bets are off. 

If we assume the wait is so the label can properly market and time the album to maximize sales, I'd say turning the album over to the label means this will likely be the year.  If not....who knows.    I tend to think, like you, that we're just waiting on the label to kick the promo machine into high gear when they determine the best release time frame is.  But that's not the ONLY option out there....

[bodine]

I tend to think, like you, that we're just waiting on the label to kick the promo machine into high gear when they determine the best release time frame is.? But that's not the ONLY option out there....

Besides Christmas season, is there a 'best time of year' to release an album?  Is there a time of year when albums sell better than others? 

[pilferk]

So it's okay to jerk your fans around? I don't see my post as petty bitching. My feelings on the issue come as the result of years of supporting this band, years of saying "That's bullshit, the new album is right around the corner," whenever someone makes a comment about how washed up GNR is, years of spending money on concerts, including one where I had to book a plane, get a hotel, and find the concert cancelled after spending the money. Sure, I got my ticket price back, but that was the smallest part of my investment in going out to support the band.

I'm sorry, I know life isn't fair. That's why hurricanes, tornados and earth quakes happen. But when someone dangles a carrot in front of you for years and years, but never lets it go so you can eat it, that's just jerking you around.

You're trying to stand in judgement of a situation you don't really know everything (maybe anything) about. 

Do I think it's OK if you intentionally, with malice, set out to deceive your fan base, continually and jerk them around just for the fun of it? No.

Do I think it's OK to be wrong, have situations you don't have complete control over change drastically, and have to change your plans "on the fly"? Yes.

I'd doubt, highly, they're doing the first.

I suspect, strongly, they've been thrust into the 2nd.

But I don't know, either way.

But no matter which one it is, I have choices:

1) I can accept the situation, and continue to wait.
2) I can be disgruntled, upset, frustrated, whatever and walk away, having lost nothing....or nothing much, really.
3) Or I can complain, pointlessly, about how downtrodden, misused, and jerked around I've been....and accomplish absolutely nothing in the process.

One and two, above, are personal decisions about whether you think the "value" of the art is worth whatever the "wait" is costing you, either in frustration, or adjada, or cash or whatever.  I've no issue with anyone who makes one of those 2 decisions.

Three gets you nothing.  It won't speed up the release of the album.  It won't change what's already happened. Right?   So what's the point?

[wight gunner]

I think this somes up CD perfectly, not my words but those spoken by somebody closer to the answer than anybody....


"What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach...
So, you get what we had here last week,
which is the way he wants it!
Well, he gets it!
N' I don't like it any more than you men." ? Civil War by Guns n' Fuckin' Roses

[bodine]

I think this somes up CD perfectly, not my words but those spoken by somebody closer to the answer than anybody....


"What we've got here is failure to communicate.

Yeah, blame Strother Martin!!!!!!

[AxlsMainMan]

I'd say we could maybe expect the album in March at the earliest.

If not, then maybe May or June.

If not, then maybe September or November..

[sandman]

I tend to think, like you, that we're just waiting on the label to kick the promo machine into high gear when they determine the best release time frame is.? But that's not the ONLY option out there....

Besides Christmas season, is there a 'best time of year' to release an album?? Is there a time of year when albums sell better than others??

i don't know the answer to that question. but i do NOT believe christmas time is best for a release. i don't think there's a time of year that's any better than the other.

for an album to sell, you need a few songs that get (over)played on the radio for months at a time. you need pop songs that connect with people of all demographics. songs that make people buy the record throughout the entire year, and then at christmas time think "there's been 2 or 3 songs i like on that album, so buy me that for xmas."

[bodine]

I tend to think, like you, that we're just waiting on the label to kick the promo machine into high gear when they determine the best release time frame is.? But that's not the ONLY option out there....

Besides Christmas season, is there a 'best time of year' to release an album?? Is there a time of year when albums sell better than others??

i don't know the answer to that question. but i do NOT believe christmas time is best for a release.

Yeah, I guess I'd be kinda pissed if CD came out the Tuesday before Thanksgiving and someone told me "I'm getting you that for Christmas, so don't go buy it"...

[pilferk]

i don't know the answer to that question. but i do NOT believe christmas time is best for a release. i don't think there's a time of year that's any better than the other.

for an album to sell, you need a few songs that get (over)played on the radio for months at a time. you need pop songs that connect with people of all demographics. songs that make people buy the record throughout the entire year, and then at christmas time think "there's been 2 or 3 songs i like on that album, so buy me that for xmas."

The "marketing gurus" peg 2 time frames for "best" release:

Summer

"Holiday" season

Summer tends to be the rule of thumb for new material, and highly anticipated material, especially rock and pop.  MUCH of the target demo is out of school, and "cash rich" with summer jobs.  They also have a LOT of free time to "consume" the material.

The Holidays tend to see better sales on compliations, greatest hits, specialtly volumes, etc.  New material does well, too, but better in genre's like country and adult contemporary, rather than rock and pop.

But the only "bad" (relatively) time to release is from about the 2nd week in January for about 8 to 10 weeks.  She says sales just PLUMMET at the stores during that time frame, and foot traffic is much less, too.  She says things really start to pick up again around mid-March.  Let me caveat that by saying we're in New England, so that may just pertain to our area.....I don't know.  I've never asked.

That's direct from someone (a friend of mine) who worked for YEARS in marketing for a mid-sized regional music chain that was owned by a LARGE chain.  That mid-sized was actually swallowed up, whole, almost a year ago and she's moved on to another marketing position, with another retail chain...but they have zippo to do with music.

[ppbebe]

I like may.

I think they'll be back once the album is released! It's not like people are going to the record store every day to see if it's there.

very consistant with reality.
not every music fan is as obsessive as some diehards on the net.
they can forget about the band all they want but once they hear new songs...

[slashsbaconpit]

You're trying to stand in judgement of a situation you don't really know everything (maybe anything) about.?

Do I think it's OK if you intentionally, with malice, set out to deceive your fan base, continually and jerk them around just for the fun of it? No.

Do I think it's OK to be wrong, have situations you don't have complete control over change drastically, and have to change your plans "on the fly"? Yes.

I'd doubt, highly, they're doing the first.

I suspect, strongly, they've been thrust into the 2nd.

I guess that's what I don't buy. I don't think they are intentionally jerking people around, but I also don't buy the whole "a situation that's totally out of our control is making us not release the album (or cancel our Philly shows with no notice).

I mean, I used to be one of the guys who'd get on these forums and defend everything Axl did, and tell people that they didn't know shit about him or his situation, and it's not their fault because they said it's not and everything else.

But after basically somewhere between blowing several hundred dollars in order to attend a no-show concert, and not seeing the album again and again, I began to become skeptical of GNR. I wonder if Axl was ever telling the truth about his grand opus that was 98 percent done, or basically all done, or coming out real soon, or Baz has hear four finished albums worth or whatever.

The problem is that I love GNR. The music has been a great influence on my life. I think that Axl has grown lyrically, and he sounds great.  I want GNR to come back and make another mark on the music world before it's too late.

But every year that slips by without a release is another year of more fans leaving, less people caring, and more of a chance of CD being a commercial and critical failure.  I don't want the reemergence of GNR to be some sad joke that becomes fodder for SNL sketches. I want it to be grand, but the longer they wait, the less likely it will be.

I wouldn't bitch if I didn't care, and I'm sorry if I'm being a drag. There is this impression out there that guys like me sit around obsessing over this album all day, everyday. We don't. We come to the forum for the same reason anyone does. It's just some people come off sounding optimistic, while others wind up sounding pessimistic.

I guess what I'm saying is don't believe anything when it comes to this album. Not unofficial news, not official news. None of it is worth a damn, or will be until the CD is on record store shelves. When, and indeed if, this record comes, don't look forward to it, don't look for it to change anything, don't even expect to like it.

And hopefully, when it shows up, it will be a pleasant surprise for all of us!

[Bevo_Francis]

i don't know the answer to that question. but i do NOT believe christmas time is best for a release. i don't think there's a time of year that's any better than the other.

for an album to sell, you need a few songs that get (over)played on the radio for months at a time. you need pop songs that connect with people of all demographics. songs that make people buy the record throughout the entire year, and then at christmas time think "there's been 2 or 3 songs i like on that album, so buy me that for xmas."

The "marketing gurus" peg 2 time frames for "best" release:

Summer

"Holiday" season

Summer tends to be the rule of thumb for new material, and highly anticipated material, especially rock and pop.  MUCH of the target demo is out of school, and "cash rich" with summer jobs.  They also have a LOT of free time to "consume" the material.

The Holidays tend to see better sales on compliations, greatest hits, specialtly volumes, etc.  New material does well, too, but better in genre's like country and adult contemporary, rather than rock and pop.

But the only "bad" (relatively) time to release is from about the 2nd week in January for about 8 to 10 weeks.  She says sales just PLUMMET at the stores during that time frame, and foot traffic is much less, too.  She says things really start to pick up again around mid-March.  Let me caveat that by saying we're in New England, so that may just pertain to our area.....I don't know.  I've never asked.

That's direct from someone (a friend of mine) who worked for YEARS in marketing for a mid-sized regional music chain that was owned by a LARGE chain.  That mid-sized was actually swallowed up, whole, almost a year ago and she's moved on to another marketing position, with another retail chain...but they have zippo to do with music.

That's a pretty good summary I think.  I also think it is interesting that Axl has waited so long to release the album (whatever the real reason) that MTV is no longer around as a vehicle to promote a single via a video and rock radio is dying off.  That, combined with the illegal downloading, will make it very difficult to sell enough copies for the album to be considered a success (especially when compared to the numbers the band used to move).  It seems that bands make $$ these days touring which Axl can continue to do.  However, if he really wants a megatour, he probably needs the classic lineup.  All in all, I say the prospects for a huge commercial success are dismal with the changing landscape for the music business.  If the record company really wants to make $$ with the current lineup, we will know the album is coming out when we start getting flooded with ringtones, DVDs, itunes singles and live sessions, commercials like the Harley ad, etc.

[wight gunner]

The real issue is the media gonna be saying 14 years and as many million dollers, for this!!!  The hardcore fans may be blinded by optimism and and a genuine love of the music, but will it float the boats of the masses who ain't fans? Or don't buy into the most dangerous band in the world tagg. The image isn't what it was we know, but do the media accept that and are happy to go along with what we already do. If they want the old news worthy stuff then they will be disappionted, hopefully they will see beyond that and accept the new guns for the great musicians they are....

[D]

My luck:

the release date will be announced after the day I die.

[greendog]

My luck:

the release date will be announced after the day I die.

How about its announced and you just die of shock. Surely thats worse?

[slashsbaconpit]

The hardcore fans may be blinded by optimism and and a genuine love of the music, but will it float the boats of the masses who ain't fans? Or don't buy into the most dangerous band in the world tagg.

No kidding. I mean, Axl hangs out with fashion designers and talks about meeting with the record company executives.