CD w/ Label = Directly from Richard

[mcalldp]

Record Companies are not charities.  They're in it for the money, so they'll do what they need to do to maximize revenue. 

Well said and thanks for that (the whole post not just what I quoted). I agree with you, it really is about the money and you can bet that they will have a lot of heads thinking together on just how to release this and every little detail will be hammered out before it's released. If some of us did the same thing, put our heads together and thought of the best ways to release this, it would just be speculation (At best) but we might arrive at some of the same basic conclusions....and hey, isn't speculation what a forum lives off of when there isn't regularly given news by any official source?

For my own thought/Wish I would like to see this released in special packaging instead of a regular CD. Something like the PULSE release from Pink Floyd. Does anyone remember that? A special little box with a small book in it containint the usual stuff plus interview and extra info and pics etc... then the CD in it's own case slid in with the book and the boc that held them had a blinking light on it! (How very Floyd)

No expense has been spared on the recording (From what we know) so why skimp at the end? Go all the way and really pull out the stops on promotion of this thing. Special packaging is, in my mind, one of the few things that will pull someone into a purchase over a download these days and if GNR are looking for new fans, you're talking about the downloading generation for sure.

For Jarmo, you said, "So people just go to one show every ten years for novelty reasons?"
My answer would be no but the rule of diminishing returns would apply. Some might go again but not all. I think people would go but there would be less, IF we're talking about touring with no new album. If a new album drops then the tour will be huge.

[jarmo]

Having seen the new band play live, I'm in no rush to see them a 2nd time.
Releasing the album means more to me 

I wasn't talking about miserable people like you. 

I meant people who go see concerts to have a good time.




/jarmo

[Lucky]

anyone who says novelty is important... 2 words for ya... "led" and "zeppelin"

[Calcy]

Yeah and Led Zeppelin, Queen + Paul Rodgers, The Police, Van Halen etc. provide stiff competition for GN'R to get peoples money for tickets. Prices are pretty high for tickets at the moment so not everyone can afford to go see all the acts they'd like. GN'R toured not long ago (compared to the other acts above anyway) and despite being awesome entertainment, the fact the certain ex-members ain't there now puts people off, and are more likely to go see a more 'original' line-up, such as 3/4 Van Halen, 3/4 Zeppelin etc.

And yes, I'm a big Queen fan, so I've heard the arguments about Paul Rodgers singing in place of Freddie Mercury, so I'm not picking on GN'R here, as I really like the new music with the current line-up.

[Janabis]

Having seen the new band play live, I'm in no rush to see them a 2nd time.
Releasing the album means more to me?

I wasn't talking about miserable people like you.?

I meant people who go see concerts to have a good time.




/jarmo

I have to agree with redsquare. I fit more into the 'hardcore fan' category having seen the new band 5 times now, and I'm not really excited to see them again until there are a lot of changes to the show. The last VR show I went to was more exciting than my last GNR show to be honest (even though I like the new GNR's music a lot more than VR's).

[jarmo]

I fit more into the 'hardcore fan' category having seen the new band 5 times now, and I'm not really excited to see them again until there are a lot of changes to the show.

Well that's the choice you have.

Either you go see the band and know you'll get a great show, or stay at home waiting for that fantasy dream show that might never materialize.




/jarmo

[mcalldp]

I fit more into the 'hardcore fan' category having seen the new band 5 times now, and I'm not really excited to see them again until there are a lot of changes to the show.

Well that's the choice you have.

Either you go see the band and know you'll get a great show, or stay at home waiting for that fantasy dream show that might never materialize.




/jarmo

I HOPE that CD is release eventually(!) and that the resulting tour has more emphasis on the new material etc... It would be a great show....

[Lord Kayoss]

What are the most logical reasons for the record company holding it up?

Given the decline in sales for the music industry in general, the outrageous cost to make the album, and Geffen's current financial situation the most likely reason is a cosmic divide between Axl and the label over the marketing and promo budget.

Marketing is going to be key here.  Word of mouth won't cut it in this case.  CD needs to be all over the place when its close to release.  TV, radio, internet, magazines, etc.  They need to promote the hell out of it to get what they're hoping for.

[mcalldp]

What are the most logical reasons for the record company holding it up?

Given the decline in sales for the music industry in general, the outrageous cost to make the album, and Geffen's current financial situation the most likely reason is a cosmic divide between Axl and the label over the marketing and promo budget.

Marketing is going to be key here.  Word of mouth won't cut it in this case.  CD needs to be all over the place when its close to release.  TV, radio, internet, magazines, etc.  They need to promote the hell out of it to get what they're hoping for.

Agreed and thus far the bands not marketed towards the internet at all so a total revamp in that area is a no brainer (I hope) for the record company. With the amount of time and money spent so far there is no reason/excuse to go cheap or rush it now. Get it out proper and plunk down the money to promote it like crazy.

[D]

Greatest Hits albums are the ultimate cash grab and u better believe the label released it to recoup money for CD.



Record labels USE to get 6 dollars an album, back when CDS were sold for almost 20 bucks. not sure what they get now that CDS are a bit cheaper. U best believe they get at least 4 dollars. The band probably gets about 2.

Out of that 2 it is split however many ways to satisfy the band members. The record label's 4 dollars IS THEIR MONEY. They don't split their cut with the band, thats where the band's 2 dollars come from.

So Greatest Hits cost ZERO to make as they songs were already recorded.

They may have used less than 1 million dollars to press and promote this album.

The album worldwide has easily sold 8 million.

8 million mutiplied by 4 dollars would be a gross profit of 32 million for the record label.  That is the CD money and profit.

[jarmo]

I HOPE that CD is release eventually(!) and that the resulting tour has more emphasis on the new material etc... It would be a great show....

It's very possible that it happens.

But it's not uncommon for bands who are touring to promote their latest album to play about the same number of new tracks as GN'R did without an album out.

Both work for different concert goers. The hardcore fans would be thrilled with a setlist full of new songs while the casual fans would be happy to see a couple of new ones and lots of old hits.
 

Whatever GN'R plays, you can bet the show will be memorable. They really are that great....





/jarmo

[D]

When CD is released, U know we are going to hear most of the album on tour.


Hell, knowing Axl, he will probably  just extend the concert another hour.

Remember those 3 hour marathons!

They play 20 songs?? now on tour? including the 3 or 4 new songs.
So I could see Axl extending those 20 up to about 25 and adding another 30 minutes or so onto the concert.

That would be awesome.

I am just praying and have my fingers crossed that they come to either Nashville or Atlanta. Those are the closest places to where I live...................... 

[Lord Kayoss]

I was hoping for Lexington or Cincinnati.  But I have decided that Chicago or Indy are do-able since it's GN'R.

[W 23 AXL II]

Whatever GN'R plays, you can bet the show will be memorable. They really are that great....

/ jarmo

This much is very true. Regardless of the problems, once Axl gets on stage, all is forgiven. He is magic and the best frontman of all time, without a doubt!!!!!!!! THE BEST.

[AxlsMainMan]

Both work for different concert goers. The hardcore fans would be thrilled with a setlist full of new songs while the casual fans would be happy to see a couple of new ones and lots of old hits.

A perfect 50/50 split of old songs and new songs would be awesome.

Everyone leaves happy

[crazycheryl]

I'm just getting this news so excuse me but I have to say that things look favorable for a 2008 release. 

It could not happen but I think at least in the GNR world all signs point to go. Looking forward to 2008...

[ben9785]

I would love to see the album come out sooner than later, but I'd also love for them to come back to Australia and play. That show in Sydney was one of the best I have ever seen.

Like Jarmo was saying there's a possibility that even after the album comes out there may not be big changes to the setlist. Most bands touring for a new album only end up playing about 5 or 6 of the songs off the new album anyway. Also alot of fans might not care about the new songs, they might just go to hear the 'classics' played. Whatever they decide to do, hopefully however many tracks the new album/s consist of, they will get played live at some point.

[Howard2k]

So people just go to one show every ten years for novelty reasons?

You don't think there's a bunch of people who'd go to the shows who either weren't fans in the past or didn't have the chance to go see them last time?


There's a bunch of people who'll go see concerts based on the novelty factor, that's correct. But I think many of them are prepared to go to a show more than once in two years....

Otherwise bands like Metallica wouldn't be playing European stadiums every summer.

/jarmo

Wow Jarmo, way to read content that isn't there. ?Isn't that what you accuse the fans of doing?

I didn't say that people just go to 1 show every 10 years for novelty reasons. ?You know that, you've even confirmed that further down that you seem to understand my point. ?It looks like you're just trying to start an argument. ?Perhaps you should give yourself some negative karma and take a time out.

"There's a bunch of people who'll go see concerts based on the novelty factor, that's correct. But I think many of them are prepared to go to a show more than once in two years...."

Agreed. ?We both agree on that. ?No need to argue for the sake of arguing. ? I'm sure "many" of them will, but "many" of them won't. ? The "many" that won't could be considered lost potential earnings. ?

To simplify and demonstrate - I'm not a huge fan of Billy Idol. ?If Billy was in town in January and I knew I could get tickets would I go? ?Sure I would. ?It would be great to hear some of those old tunes. ?If he was coming back in February would I go? ?After seeing him in January? ?Let's say (for arguments sake) that there's a 1% chance that I'd go. ? As time progresses that chance increases. ?So March might be 2%. ? July might be 10%. ? November might be 50% etc. ? I'm pretty sure that you understand this stuff to at least some degree. ?

Therefore, we could extrapolate that I'm not the only person in the world that feels that way about Billy Idol. ?And I don't think it's unfair to think that there are people who feel the same about GNR.

We can interject Chi Dem into the mix and if I'd gone to the show in January and Billy had a new CD out, and played some killer tracks from it, I'd be MORE likely to buy it than if I just happened to pass by the CD at the store. ? Ditto "casual" GNR concert goers.

Neither of us are qualified to discuss actual numbers, but there is clearly an opportunity there for the record label and promoters etc. ?They'll be looking at the big picture. ?Sure some of them are probably even GNR fans, but they have a strict responsibility to their employers, share holders and colleagues to ensure that Chi Dem is successful as possible, even if that means not releasing the record "today".

This is fairly basic business stuff, let's not let our judgements get clouded by our own fandom. ? The vast majority of us here will attend the shows and buy Chi Dem, but to be an fantastically successful record from the perspective of the record company, they'll want to be expanding their audience significantly.


Metallica keep themselves in the front line. ?They've been releasing records. ?They've been in the news. ?They've been doing shows. ? While I think that GNR are stupendously better than Metallica, the two bands are very different. ?One band is very reclusive, one band is more about fan interaction. ?If Metallica hid themselves away then no, they wouldn't be doing regular headline shows either.

[Howard2k]

Greatest Hits albums are the ultimate cash grab and u better believe the label released it to recoup money for CD.



Record labels USE to get 6 dollars an album, back when CDS were sold for almost 20 bucks. not sure what they get now that CDS are a bit cheaper. U best believe they get at least 4 dollars. The band probably gets about 2.

Out of that 2 it is split however many ways to satisfy the band members. The record label's 4 dollars IS THEIR MONEY. They don't split their cut with the band, thats where the band's 2 dollars come from.

So Greatest Hits cost ZERO to make as they songs were already recorded.

They may have used less than 1 million dollars to press and promote this album.

The album worldwide has easily sold 8 million.

8 million mutiplied by 4 dollars would be a gross profit of 32 million for the record label.? That is the CD money and profit.

Remastering, design, publishing, advertising.    I'm sure it's still a cash cow, but it doesn't cost zero. 

[jarmo]

Wow Jarmo, way to read content that isn't there.  Isn't that what you accuse the fans of doing?

Well excuse me. This part right here kinda gave me the impression that in your opinion it would be a bad idea to release the album now because people (casual fans) wouldn't go see the shows, because they already saw GN'R in 2006:

GNR have just toured the US.  Yeah I know - '06, but for a casual fan going to see them in 08 could well be less compelling than it was in 06, because in 06 there was no CD, but there was the significant novelty value for many fans of seeing a band that they grew up on.  Notwithstanding line up changes etc. 

If I was devising a Chi Dem tour schedule for GNR right now, I would be thinking that if they toured today they would be pulling in the die hard fans (who have also bought Chi Dem) but they will be missing out on the novelty/nostalgia segment, and that's an important segment as that's where there is good potential for growth in CD sales.  Perhaps a casual fan goes to the concert to hear SCOM, PC, LALD, NR etc. and leaves after hearing Better, TWAT, CD, Maddy etc. and picks up the CD on his way out of the venue, or the next day at the store. 

My point is that there's always these casual fans who might go see the band every year if they had the chance. Or not.

I didn't say that people just go to 1 show every 10 years for novelty reasons.  You know that, you've even confirmed that further down that you seem to understand my point.  It looks like you're just trying to start an argument.  Perhaps you should give yourself some negative karma and take a time out.

Maybe you should stop acting like a smart ass?

Agreed.  We both agree on that.  No need to argue for the sake of arguing.   

The only "argument" there is that you don't know what you're talking about and it makes no sense to me.

Instead of addressing the issue that you can't really count on these people to show up and the fact that there's always people who didn't go last time for whatever reason, you keep repeating the "maybe they wouldn't go see GN'R" line.


Like usual, the board has a few experts on marketing, touring, promoting, song writing, mixing, recording, managing, sales, video making, guitar playing and what not.

You even agree that you basically have no idea, but yet you're here offering your expertise on the subject. 






/jarmo